HuskyPup

Back again, and it's day 7. I had a horrible night, and manged to cut beneath my eye, and said, OK, this has to stop. So far, I've just thought and meditated over matters, read a lot, trying not to let my urges take action. As always, I'd love to get some real life support, but have found that's probably not going to be very easy, as I have had problems with the step groups, and feeling out of place in them, tolerated, but not really accepted. I've tried to go and just be quiet, but feel like a bored kid in church. I've also tried to take a modified take and use what I call a helpful power, as I'm more or less an atheist, but then all I hear is how I'm not really serious, why don't I just do it this way, and it's like we can't talk normally, and I find it's more of a disincentive. I've looked at AVRT and SMART, though we don't really have any SMART groups here I can get to. With AVRT, I also feel a bit weird, as it seems so, well, cold, like Spock on Star Trek. I feel like I am somewhere in the middle of the steps and something more secular, but neither 'side' is willing to listen to somebody who takes aspects of each, and tries to work with them. I generally get, "Well, this is what worked for ME!" And this is fine, but I'm often left with feeling like I've somehow offended them, just for being who I am.

So, one week, and feeling all mixed up inside, and alone. That's the hardest part for me, feeling alone, and like I have to follow this or that path 100%, or I'm not worth talking to

Sorry to be mopey, I guess a person's nerves are still raw, so soon.

Dee74

Hi again HuskyPup

I spent a lot of years waiting for conditions to be right for me to quit., Those conditions never materialised.

I think in the end each of us just has to decide to go for it.

I tried to keep it simple.

For me the main thing was to stop drinking - everything else was subservient to that - so I made the changes I needed to make in my life, I found a source of support...

and I went for it.

It wasn't easy - I relied on alcohol a lot for a lot of things....but I found that not giving into my urges to drink not only didn't kill me - it really did make me stronger for next time.

glad to see you back - congrats on day 7

D

HappyT4support

May I ask what it is about groups that make you feel out of place?

I am not a strong believer in God but I really enjoyed the AA meeting I went to tonight. People welcomed me and hugged me. They didn't force me to talk and it was nice to hear other people talk about overcoming their struggles.

Have you ever thought about individual counseling?

Anna

Dee is right.

There is no perfect solution or perfect time. Keep it simple and think about what you 'can' do to make it work. For me, I rely on books and SR. Each time you get through a craving, you will be stronger.

doggonecarl

I don't think anyone is offended by you being you, or with you trying your own path to recovery working whatever works for you. Problem is, your way is not working for you.

You might not find a method that you like; so pick one with a known track record you can tolerate and work it like you life depended on it. Cause it does.

Hevyn

I'm very happy to see you again Husky. We do understand what you're going through. Congratulations on those 7 hard-earned days.

bloss

Glad you're back, just take it day by day...stick around.

sugarbear1

Hugs & love to you!

Good to see you, husky!

wiscsober

HuskyPup Welcome back.
Congrats on Day 7. I am sorry to hear what has happened with you.

No nagging or berating ... I think you know what to do as far as the recovery path.

Right now you aren't in the throes of WDs nor alcohol in your system....so the time is prime to decide...

You are not alone. People want to help. You can help.

We added each other as friends a few months ago, and you are more than welcome to leave me a message.

quitforme79

You are not alone, we are here for you I go to AA but also feel that sometimes people think you should do it their way or the highway. Therefore the saying "take what you need and leave the rest". Everything can seem confusing in early sobriety as you know. I read on here and went to many meetings and acted like a sponge. Eventually stuff started to click. Hugs to you!

HuskyPup

Thanks for all the replies. I realize there is no perfect set of conditions, and I try my best to soldier on. In the groups, what bothers me are all the God references, the idea that I must have a higher power, or else, and how they talk about a 'loving God'. I think the universe is neutral, it just is. It's neither higher nor lower, and I'm just a part of the greater whole. But when I say that, I get the hairy eyeball, and am told nature can't be a higher power, because it's too random and chaotic, and not properly spiritual. I didn't really get the feeling I was welcome, unless I changed my views, and hugs didn't seem too plentiful, though I feel I could have and still very much could use some. Then, also, I get the idea mentioned that my way will never work, as if this way is doomed to failure from the outset, merely because of my past, and is not an evolving idea, and that it must fall into some or other rigid paradigm.

I know that I have to do this myself, on one hand, though there is a longing to share, and not always feel on the defensive, but to be able to talk to others about their journeys in a comparative, helpful way that supports the positive things we are both doing, and doesn't seek to minimize our individual efforts.

But whatever the paradigm, it involves not drinking, and if I long for a group that doesn't exist in person, I just have to carry on, and not let that be any excuse. Still, I feel it better to express this than not, in that I am being honest with my feelings, as I'm being true to myself in doing so. To merely deny this urge only bottles it up, and sees me reaching for the bottle.

Thanks for listening, and I do appreciate each and every comment, and hope everyone is also making progress in the ways they have chosen.

fantail

I definitely hear what you're saying! It can be hard to find a group when you only use pieces of each program.

A couple of months ago I added a weekly addiction counselor to my approach and it helps a lot. It's really great to talk over my own personal approach to sobriety. It helps me clarify and strengthen my philosophy of recovery.

It's not the same as having a group to talk to. I'd say that hanging out on SR keeps me aware of the problem that I'm facing, and gives me a sense of camaraderie. Therapy keeps me in touch with my own self-designed set of solutions, and helps me figure out the path as I keep refining it.

Threshold

Hi Husky, glad to see you back. Glad you are sober again!

My HP is the Universe, and within that Universe is something that can restore me to sanity, free me from addiction and help me build a better life.

It's not loving. It is what it is, but within it is the power to heal me. Doesn't have to love me to do that. In my faith (in the Universe) I define 'love" as cooperation. Everything in the Universe cooperates to create this event that is the Universe. So, in that sense, is it loving? Sure, and I can love back by cooperating with the elements of the Universe that can restore my sanity, because my efforts to NOT cooperate got me in a whole lot of ugly.

I am in 12 step. But not AA. And part of why I am not in AA is because I too found it tedious and exhausting to have to keep "translating" in my head from God, and loving, to what I believe and experience. Other people manage it, but I found it very distracting and inside my head I kept "arguing".

I found NA to be less that way. The literature of NA is not as old, and the language of it is easier for me to follow...not all that translating, not all that me getting my hackles up. Not all those people telling me my HP won't work because I refuse to call it God. Not all AA'ers are like that, but where I was it was the prevalent culture.

I also find alternative 12 step groups online that really speak to me, and allow me to get in depth and work the steps without the constant translating, arguing, conflict in my head. This doesn't mean they are watered down, or "soft" (and I have had some hard liners make that accusation), it's the same process, the same "work" that has to be done, the same commitment, but it speaks to me where I am.

Now that I've found those programs and worked the steps, I find I can communicate much better with AA, because now I have experienced the commonality, rather than be always challenging the differences.

I happen to live in a place where there are no meetings, which has it's good and bad sides. Part of the good is that I don't have to fend off the hard liners who are all too happy to tell me that if I don't do it their way, use their language, get on my knees twice a day to their understanding of God, I am doomed to fail. Tell me if I am not willing to do that, I am not willing to go to any length. I am willing to do very much, but no, I am not willing to be dishonest...because that never got me anywhere.

Looking forward to sharing sobriety with you!

FatallyUncool

Hi Husky,

When I first started in NA, I was sure I didn't belong or fit in. I even shared in an early meeting that I'm not sure if I should be there, and if anyone thinks I shouldn't be there, please tell me or leave a note on my car. Nobody did and everyone was very supportive. But I think different groups are different, and this one has a very supportive and compassionate vibe compared to other NA meetings I've attended. I would suggest trying several different meetings if you haven't already.

It was very easy to find differences between me and "those people" at first. But if I looked for the similarities, they were striking, too. I am certainly an addict, and I can obsess, isolate, and be depressed with the best of em.

I also struggle with the concept of a loving god. I just don't see it and I don't have faith in it. Fortunately, I'm not on that step yet so I try not to worry about it.

I'm not trying to push 12-step on you. But I believe it is good to have lots of support, in addition to SR.

2granddaughters

It will take me a lifetime to fit into AA. I gave up decades ago trying to get AA to fit me.

The answer to my problem is surrendering to AA, not trying to get my own way in AA.

Again... AA's HOW IT WORKS says it so well:

RARELY HAVE we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.

Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, and what we are like now. If you have decided that you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it - then you are ready to take certain steps.

At some of these we balked. We thought that we could find an easier, softer way. But we could not. With all earnestness at our command, we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start. Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely.

Remember that we deal with alcohol - cunning, baffling, powerful! Without help it is too much for us. But there is One who has all power - that One is God. May you find him now.

Half measures availed us nothing. We stood at the turning point. We asked His protection and care with complete abandon.
Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as a program of recovery:

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Many of us exclaimed, "What an order! I can't go through with it." Do not be discouraged. No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. We are not saints. The point is, that we were willing to grow along spiritual lines. The principles we have set down are guides to progress. We claim spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection.

Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our personal adventures before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:

(a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.

(b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.

(c) That God could and would if He were sought.

How it works - Chapter 5, page 58-60 of the Book, Alcoholics Anonymous © Alcoholics Anonymous


All the best.

Bob R

wiscsober

I am an agnostic. I hear about God day in day out

I have to keep living with this life, there isn't an alternative.

Right now, If I was sponsoring you....
If there is a God or no God is the least of your worries.

Your disease, if you are alcoholic, probably has you by the gonads.

This isn't about what you believe....it is about denial...

For me in sponsoring, religion is off limits. None of my business.

Do you have the willingness to quit? Good now
Just tell me what you believe in....ok....
do the third step....
and I'd be having you doing a 4th step right away.

if God references in AA are bothering you so much
that you are relapsing....
stop going to meetings
and work your butt off with a sponsor....

Really what's the big deal about God, especially if you don't believe or it irritates you?





Best to you always!

HuskyPup

Well, onto day 8 and feeling a lot less on edge. Thanks for all the input. I do agree those who choose to use various methods are often marginalized, as fantail mentions; it makes finding a group harder, but it doesn't mean recovery is going to be harder or impossible. I may indeed sit in on a few meetings, to glean what I can; I most enjoy chatting before and after, and just seeing people. Though trying to follow the God/steps part didn't have any big impact on me. I don't mean this in a negative way, just that we all find our own paths, no disrespect to anyone. I know people mean to help, and will be quick to focus on what has helped them. And yet I know of people who have become sober many different ways.

I'm not giving up, and I'm not drinking; I'll maintain an open mind, and take what find helpful, but I don't find it overly helpful to be told that I must or should follow the steps as AA has laid them out. In trying to find sponsors in AA, none of the three I approached thought nature was a good enough HP, and moreover, they disagreed with how I framed it: as a helpful power.

I think more helpful would be a hug, right now.

Soberpotamus

Hugs to you Husky I hope you carve out a good path for yourself. And I hope you resolve to maintain your sobriety. You can beat your addiction.

Have you thought of keeping a blog charting the steps you've taken, the groups you've tried, books you've read and insights you've had along the way? This might be a way for you to create the path you so long for, and share it with others. I'm pretty sure this is how books get written, alternative recovery books... I'm reading a few of them now.

aasharon90

Staying sober or clean in recovery is a
growing process. As we are born as an
infant we don't snap our fingers or wave
a magic wand and bingo we are instantly
transformed into an adult. All grown up,
educated, employeed, parents, etc.

As an infant, we are hand fed, carried around,
taught to speak, walk, stand on our own, all
in good time. Each year we grow and mature
and become strong, healthy, smart, caring,
loving human beings to pass on what was
taught to us to other little infants just being
brought into the world.

Now, with the same mind set, imagine urself
as an infant in recovery. Allow those with ESH
to share with you, teach you, carry you, with
each step you take, each new breath of a new
day you take, to help you, guide you, show care,
compassion as you begin a new journey in life
that is not made by waving a magic wand or
taught in one day.

From the beautiful infant that you were, you
will become a beautiful person inside and out
in your own recovery life.

Nuudawn

I am of the mind that compassionate ears are a HUGE part of the recovery process. It is really helpful when we find minds we can resonate with so that we don't feel so alone. SR is part of that place for me. I also extremely blessed to have a great counsellor and some really wise friends who either don't drink or barely do in my circle. We need to tell our stories and we need someone to hear them and say "Hey..I hear you! I feel that way too sometimes!"...that helps us heal more than anything.
Bright blessings and hope to you finding the right ears..and hugs too! Hugs are awesome.