Springs

I just got back from a session with my AH and his counselor. He invited me for the first time since he's been seeing her for a month and a half. I found a lot out. She had wanted to see me from the beginning (good). She has been telling him for the last month and a half that he needs intensive outpatient care and must be abstinent (absolutely!) and is saying after one or two more sessions she's going to have to terminate the relationship if he doesn't take that step. I think she's dead on but this is so hard. She wanted me to come back next week but I think she's likely going to suggest no contact (we're staying apart but in contact every other day and seeing each other for an hour or so weekly). Ugh, I've been going to al anon and inching up to no contact but don't feel ready so soon. this is too hard. I said I'd get back to them about going again and maybe suggested two weeks. I don't feel ready. Any advice on when to go back, how should I prepare and whether I need to draw this boundary now when I'm not ready yet would be helpful. Thank you.

AnvilheadII

well hon, if you aren't ready, you aren't ready. any more than he is truly ready to quit. if you can accept where YOU are, can you also accept where HE is?

LexieCat

She's HIS counselor, not yours, and it's totally up to you whether to go at all. Because she is HIS counselor, her suggestions and recommendations are going to be what she thinks is best for him, not for you. If she is ethical she won't recommend something she knows would be bad for you, but the point is that you are not her primary concern.

Maybe you should find your own therapist to work with you on finding out what's best for YOU?

SoloMio

I completely agree with Lexie and Anvil. Do what's right for you. I got sucked into that when I separated from AH and looking back it did nothing to change his course of action--it just made my break from him more difficult.

NYCDoglvr

If you need more pain stay with him. I guarantee nothing is going to be better.

Springs

My problem is that I don't want to regret dragging out no contact if he literally kills himself during the interim. I know everyone on this site likely feels this way, but it just feels too hard and too unfair to be put in this situation. I've been trying to be strong and deal with this appropriately and this is just too much for me now.

LexieCat

You aren't "no contact" with him now. And what makes you think the counselor would suggest that? In any event, he isn't following any of the counselor's other suggestions, such as an IOP or abstinence, so whether to follow that particular suggestion, assuming it is made, is up to you.

I think you are worrying about something that really isn't even an issue at this point. The issue you SHOULD be focusing on is, "What am I doing for my own recovery?"

I think the counselor is right--he is wasting her time and his own if he is determined to keep drinking. The counselor sees that. If he's not willing to listen to the counselor, what's your Plan B? You seem to think you can prevent him from "killing himself" if you stay in contact with him. It seems to me that all that will happen is you will get sucked back in, and wind up in the same spot you were in before all this happened.

You can't MAKE him quit drinking. So what are you doing for YOURSELF?

Springs

Thanks - I meant that if no contact would help him realize the seriousness of the situation than I don't want to drag out moving to no contact (not that I can help him not die by staying in touch). I guess, if my contact with him is hurting him, it feels selfish to keep the contact I'd prefer. I bet the answer is that this is all the same magical thinking though.

LexieCat

Yeah, I think it really is. Whether you are in contact with him or not will not affect his drinking one way or another. No contact is often suggested around here because it gives YOU a break from the crazy-train--not because it is helpful to the alcoholic.

So, whether you stay in contact with him or not, what are you doing for YOU? I think this is the third time I've asked in this thread, and I haven't heard an answer yet. Have you been to Al-Anon?

Springs

LexieCat - hi, yes. I've been going to al anon several times a week. it is very helpful. I have not been since the meeting with the counselor today but will try to go tomorrow and will go Monday. I am trying to get a therapist but the first one I went to was not a good fit and my insurance is waiting to qualify second person I tried, so I'll follow up with the insurance on Monday. I also went out to a party with friends today. It was fun. I just feel like I'm really trying on the self care and I can't believe i'm going to need to do more and face more than I already have as this gets worse.

NYCDoglvr

It helps to stop projecting. Neither you, me or anyone else has any idea of what will happen tomorrow and certainly not in the future. And if it happens, in no way would it be your fault (unless you hasten his demise which is another thing entirely). Projecting is simply a mind game we use to give ourselves the notion that we have control over someone's future actions. We don't. This is simply denial and rationalization, two qualities codependents share with alcoholics.

AnvilheadII

NO contact isn't a ploy to get them to act...it is simply an act of protection for ourselves. when we accept that nothing WE do or say has any impact on THEIR situation.

Springs

This part is confusing to me. Why does Al Anon recommend not suggesting treatment then and leaving that to the alcoholic? Why not send helpful things to read, etc. if I'd prefer to and it doesn't matter to them either way? I mean can't there be ways we act that are hurtful and ways we act that are helpful? I get how you can't stop their drinking or control them but can't your well meaning help be hurtful?

AnvilheadII

if YOu have the ability to research various forms of rehab/treatment/recovery for THEM, so do THEY. any more in today's world, HELP is not hard to find. AA has been around since the 30s....treatment centers are thriving.....who doesn't have a phone book, computer, smart phone these days? his own counselor has suggested options.

HE isn't following thru. methods of recovery are not a secret. or hard to find. you can put forth all the energy you wish to "help" him find solutions...nothing will matter unless and until HE is truly ready to change. and that may or may not happen. ever.

LexieCat

I think I get what you are saying, Springs. Yeah, I'd agree there are things we can do that can make matters worse--nagging, "reminding," rescuing, enabling--those can keep the alcoholic resentful enough to use it as an EXCUSE for drinking (which is different from actually causing it), or comfortable enough to feel no motivation whatsoever to quit. But just avoiding these things won't get anyone sober. Avoiding them simply removes certain roadblocks--they still have to WANT to recover--and there isn't anything we can do to create that desire.

CarryOn

I talked with my RAH today, and he said a few things to me that you may find insightful in your situation. My RAH said he wouldn't admit that he was an alcoholic until he started going to AA meetings. He started an IOP a few months back (did not continue), and referred to himself as "alcohol dependent" a few times but would not call himself an alcoholic until AA. It seems he needed to recognize himself in others to admit what he was.

He also has said to me a few times, and repeated again today, that denial and defiance are big parts of the disease. It seems like these are two of the things he is working hard at overcoming right now. These strong tendencies to denial and defiance make it incredibly difficult to do something someone asks you to do. Hearing this from him helps remind me to focus on myself...nothing I say is going to make him do something (especially right now). He will do the things he wants to do, when he wants to do them, end of story.

Springs

Okay, so I've sat in my heart with this and I don't want no contact yet, thought I'm keeping it open in my mind as an option. I hear what anvilhead said about accepting where my AH is at if I'm going to accept where I'm at. I'm not okay with it, because he is ruining our life together and risking his life, but I do see the wisdom in being honest with myself that that is the current situation. Thank you all so much for the advice so far.

Any wisdom about how to decide whether to go back to the counseling session in two weeks? (I'm not going next week). I don't see the point, I guess, but I'm not against going if there is a potential point. I think the main point would be to continue to snap me out of my hope that this situation could improve but that feels like a painful way to receive that message and it felt so intensely horrible and disorienting to be sitting there listening her tell AH what's what and listen to him deny that up is up and down is down.

LexieCat

I think your instincts about what would happen at the counseling session are probably pretty accurate. Personally, I don't see the point, myself.

If you'd like some clarification on it, you could call the counselor, yourself, and ask why she wants you there. She can't disclose anything confidential, but she ought to be able to tell you what point there is, if any, in your being there, and you could decide from there.

Just be aware that just because SHE thinks it's a good idea doesn't mean you are obligated to go, or that you are somehow messing anything up by not going.

Springs

Hi - To update a bit. I called the counselor and she told me that the point of me coming the session was because I should be invested in AH and we should all be on the same page. I told her that yes, I was invested, and yes I was on the same page as her but I didn't have the ability to get us all on the same page since AH won't accept reality. I don't plan on coming to another session anytime soon though am not ruling it out.

Since the session I did attend, I refused to see AH and now (R?)AH says he's been going to AA meetings almost every day. He has sounded different the last two times we spoke - he actually asked what I needed from him and was reasonable about some logistics we needed to figure out. That was a huge change. I guess it's good but I'm also so frustrated that he's been able to take each step he wants to take on his time and I have to accept that I am powerless over the situation.

I've been doing okay on the self care - going to al anon meetings, securing housing for myself for the next few weeks, trying to catch up at work, but man. I'm totally and completely exhausted.

dandylion

Springs, it sounds like you are making remarkable effort!!

dandylion