Wavy

ABF is very worried about me. He thinks I may have joined a cult :rotfxko Apparently I have been acting very much like I've been brainwashed lately. He says AlAnon has all the aspects of a cult and that it can't be good for me. Any thing I say in reply is met with "well that's what a cult WOULD say, they are not going to be open about being a cult!"

I said I was interested in finding a sponsor and that set him off even further - "that's how they make sure you can never leave!"

I know that it doesn't really matter what he thinks. If he wants to think its a cult then that's up to him. Its just so draining! And the wishful thinking me feels let down that he's not more supportive of me trying to do something to help myself feel better.

Anyone else's A have the same attitude towards it? Did they ever change their mind? Anyone here think the AlAnon is a cult? (Don't worry we won't shoot, I'm genuinely interested!)

dandylion

Wavy, my adult sons didn't call it a cult, but definitely had snide comments about the "crazy ladies" in "that group". They knew enough to sense that it was support for me to come between them and their drinking. Of, course they were right (LOL).

I have heard that some AA members jokingly refer to alanon as "The Ladies of Perpetual Revenge"-----I love that!!!!!!

dandylion

laurie6781

That is his alcoholism talking. He is seeing changes in you and he is losing his enabler and is fighting like hell to keep you as you were.

No Alanon is NOT a cult, roflmao, not any more so than if you were doing one on one with a therapist and you were changing.

About the only time some of them may change their mind is if and when they find recovery for themselves.

Alanon is for you. His alcoholic opinions do not count.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

MsPINKAcres

From my perspective it may be a little bit of quacking - which I will admit that I did my own quacking about "al-anon" too

Before I was Honest Open and Willing - it was suggested that I go to Al-Anon for help too ~ I too wondered if it was a "cult" and questioned it's true ability to help me in my search for answers ~ In fact I told the counselor at my then AH's treatment center I would NEVER go to Al-Anon because all they would do there is make me believe my AH's lies about his drinking & drug use ~

Six months later I was finally in enough pain to be willing to try anything ~

With God's Grace - On September 3rd of this year I will have 10 yrs in recovery ~ The program of Al-Anon has truly saved my life ~

Please allow yourself the opportunity to find out if Al-Anon is for you ~ regardless of what anyone may say ~

You have the choice ~

pink hugs!

kasie

Oh Wavy, I can strongly relate!

When I told my A I was attending AlAnon he said that "it was a group for wives to b!tch about their husbands".

It wasn't until the Counsellor at the rehab facility he was attending told him that it was important for me to attend AlAnon that he began to come around to the idea. He knows I go, but deep down I don't think he likes it all that much - especially as he's waned on the AA idea and hasn't been going to meeting for a while but I'm still going to AlAnon about twice a week - it kind of make him look like he isn't really putting much effort into his recovery.

Back in the day I would have stopped going just to please him and make him feel more comfortable. Not these days though! My recovery, and me (as a person) is/are just as important! The only thing I can control is me - and going to AlAnon helps me keep my emotions in check

As for whether or not I think AlAnon is a cult - maybe, maybe not. I work the program as best as I can, but I wouldn't say I'm nearly as dedicated as some people! But that's the thing I like about AlAnon - 'take what you like and leave the rest' - I find the readings bring me peace and perspective, I can use some of the slogans if I'm having a rough day, and the general principles of the program seem to be a pretty good way to go about living a happy, peaceful and wholesome life. It's not a cult to me, more a set of good principles by which to live my life. And I think the principles apply pretty universally - whether or not you're someone affected by another's drinking, an A, RA or just someone looking for a good way to live their life. Not groundbreaking, just simple, basic common sense really.

honeypig

Kasie, you took the words right out of my mouth--that is EXACTLY what I think. Really and truly, how could anyone go wrong by using the Alanon principles? But as I've heard said, "Alanon isn't for those who need it, it's for those who want it."

People who think Alanon is a cult are way off base--they're not asking you to hand over all your material belongings to them or anything like that. Yes, they have the slogans and so on, but I view that as more a kind of shorthand expression for a larger concept.

m1k3

I think AlAnon helped save my life and I have gotten some great recovery tools out of it. I love the group therapy and sharing at meetings and it was in meetings that I began to feel safe again.

But, there are some aspects that bother me a lot. I am an atheist and the religious aspects of the program bother me. I'd have no problem if it was limited to some vague spirituality and a higher power but it's not. It is not only religious it is Christian and doesn't even make much of an attempt to hide it.

I don't like the 12 steps for a couple of reasons. One is that it is based on the Christian accept god, confess your sins and be forgiven paradigm. The second is the whole defect thing. Between my alcoholic father and my alcoholic wife I have spent most of my life being told what my defects were. Introspection is good and I use it, I just don't like the AlAnon approach.

I don't like the secondary position it takes to AA. Especially the need to protect the anonymity of AA members. I will never compromise my integrity again to protect a drunk.

And lastly the idea that recovery is forever and you will need to attend meetings for the rest of your life. Recovery is possible, I really feel that I have recovered from the pain and trauma of living living with alcoholics. I also am an a path of self discovery and growth that is well beyond the scope of AlAnon.

As the Buddha said about his teachings, the are like a raft to get you across a river to the other side. Once you are there you don't need to carry them around with you. AlAnon was a very good raft, it saved my life but I have reached the other side and I don't need to carry it around any more.

As for group therapy, well I'm taking part in it right now.

Your friend,

LexieCat

I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with Mike there, a little bit. I don't think Al-Anon is religious, much less "Christian"--the Lord's prayer is traditional (with a small T), and it's up to any particular group whether to use that prayer (or any prayer) during meetings. My own religious beliefs are pretty amorphous (I tend to think there is SOMETHING that keeps order in the world, but I don't pretend to understand how it works). Still, I find something powerful about standing with other people, holding hands, all asking for ourselves and each other that we receive what we need, that we forgive and be forgiven. Even if it's just expressing that wish.

I also don't see that it takes a "secondary" position to AA. It asks us to respect AA members' anonymity, and I believe AA takes the same position with respect to Al-Anon.

And finally, I don't think meetings are "necessary" for the rest of your life or that you are never "recovered". Even AA recognizes that at some point alcoholics are "recovered" (though never "cured"), but practicing the principles is a lifelong change that keeps us sane (or sober), and continuing to attend meetings can be a good reminder of how it was and also a way to help newcomers.

The things that distinguish Al-Anon from a cult are many: It has no central leader, it doesn't ask for money (even the dollar in the basket is voluntary), it doesn't seek to isolate you from "non-believers".

I agree with everyone, though, that Al-Anon is viewed as a threat by active alcoholics (and even the newly sober) as being something that exists to tear down the alcoholic. It's the addiction that tells them that. Every alcoholic needs enablers to smooth the way. When we stop playing that role it messes with their comfortable existence.

atalose

I think it’s great that you are going to al-anon. And I hope you continue.

Any alcoholic/addict is not going to be supportive or interested in anything that could potential get in the way of there drunk or drugs. They don’t want the apple cart disrupted, they want people, places and things to remain just as they are so they can continue just as they are.

I don’t think it’s very realistic to look to the most damaged person in your life for any kind of support with al-anon or anything else. That’s what you have to accept when you chose to be in a relationship with an alcoholic/addict.

Unhealthy people tend to view al-anon as a cult, they don’t understand what healthy is and they are being asked to give up beliefs of what they know to get something better that they don’t yet understand.

lillamy

Yes, it's a cult. You have been assimilated. Welcome to the Borg.

I

DreamsofSerenity

I get so confused when I hear people say Al Anon is religious, or that they are uncomfortable with it because they are atheists.

My group is huge and I have never once heard anyone use the word "God". It's always HP, or the Universe, or whatever. I actually believe in God (although I am not religious) but steer clear of the usage of that word in my group. And if someone tried to get my group to say the Lord's prayer, I think they'd have a minor revolt on their hands. Sorry if this deviates from the OT.

Anyway, I liked the way Lexie pointed out the ways in which Al Anon is not a cult. You could try using that on your AH the next time he accuses you of being a cult member. But then again, when has an alcoholic ever actually listened to a logical argument?

laurie6781

OMG R O F L M A O


Love and hugs,

m1k3

Read the CAL. God is everywhere in the literature, look at the Just for Today book mark, which I have at least 5 of, and there is a prayer to God right on it.

In the literature there are lots of quotes from the Bible and other Christian books.

Step 3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

I have heard that your higher power can be anything, even a door knob. But no one turns over their will and lives to a door knob.

I really like AlAnon and will continue to recommend it to anyone. There are great tools, people and help to be found there.

However it is not nearly as religiously neutral as it presents itself. The fact that is calls itself a spiritual program makes that clear.

And for people who are not religious this can be a sticking point.

Even the Buddhism that I practice is secular with no spiritual or supernatural aspects to it.

LexieCat

In the Appendix to AA's Big Book (which is the source of the 12 Steps, and more or less the template for the Al-Anon program), a "spiritual experience" is defined as a "personality change sufficient to recover from alcoholism". IOW, spirituality isn't defined as external, but rather internal. It's basically how you relate to yourself, to others, and to the world.

I think the thing about having a doorknob as your "Higher Power" is ridiculous. But certainly the universe could be. No deity required. For me, what is important to know is that whatever a Higher Power may be, I am not it. I get in my own way when I try to manage things. When I get out of my own way, amazing things happen. That's what having a Higher Power means to me.

DreamsofSerenity

Sometimes I wish I could turn over my life to a doorknob. At least I have proof of its existence.

I think I have stumbled upon an Al Anon group full of atheists. My meetings do not feel religious to me in the least, so much so that I haven't really noticed the references to God in the literature--I do not read the literature on my own and usually zone out when it is read in meetings. It may also have something to do with the fact that the word God does not bother me so I am not sensitized to its use. It's kind of like how we say God in the Pledge of Allegiance; it doesn't even register with me, but I guess it should.

I am new to Al Anon so I don't really know. All I know is that when I am in need of a spiritual connection, I go to yoga, sit in an empty church, or surround myself by nature. I do not get that spirtual connection from my Al Anon meetings.

m1k3

I don't want to derail this thread so I will say outright that I don't think that AlAnon is a cult, not even close.

I do think it is one of the best things that ever happened to me and I will continue to recommend it to everyone, even atheists.

However I do believe it has a strong religious feel to those of us who are atheists.

LifeRecovery

Wavy-

My loved one struggled very much that I was going.

I think his fear was like the "Raid" commercials that you see the ants running scared when they see "Raid". His addiction was running scared when Al-Anon came on board for me.

I had been in therapy for some time prior to meeting him, and he probably would have been terrified with that also if it was not for the fact that I was going for my own disorder (he had no idea how much I was talking about boundaries, his drinking etc).

I used many excuses to not go into Al-Anon for a long time. I am glad I went when I did. One of the best things from the program was the "Take what you like and leave the rest." I had to learn that my recovery needed to look like what was best for me....not what was best for anyone else....or the way anyone else did it. I have been pretty traditionally in my attendance of meetings, but have been pretty untraditional in my approach to the steps. The fact of the matter is though that I have learned about detachment, boundaries, self-care and self-love in a way I could not have before.

Tuffgirl

I too had an issue with the concept of "defect". So in my own head and step work, I changed that to "limitations", or "challenges", because it sounded like something I could fix, vs. defect which sounded like something that just is.

I no longer attend Al-Anon regularly - like Mike I found it to be extremely helpful during an acute crisis, and when needed (like a regular check up) but for now, choose to focus on my new life away from this dysfunction of addictions.

That said, I wouldn't put too much faith in what your A thinks about Al-Anon. And I'd quit talking about it with him if he is using it as a club to beat you with.

Crazed

This is a very interesting question, and something I have pondered. Not only with AlAnon, but also AA. Sometimes I think it is cultish. For example, in a recent meeting (35-40 people), there was a newcomer. When people were sharing, they were directing to her so much focus on the gifts of program, and how it has saved their lives. And nothing works until you get a sponsor, and work the program. This was repeated over and over by many members. When she asked about how to get her husband to stop drinking (common for newcomers), all she got was more about how great the program was. It sounded like such a heavy sales pitch, with no real information about what was being sold. I would be willing to bet she will not be back, because it came across as being "cultish." AA and AlAnon even have what I refer to as their own "AlAnon/AA Speak" language.

Regarding religion, I am with M1K3. AlAnon makes it very clear that is not aligned with any religion. Yet there is the mention God in the steps. Most every meeting I've been to (multiple locations) ends with circular hand holding, and reciting of the Lord's Prayer, which is the central prayer in Christianity. To a someone not familiar with AA, this can appear very cultish. Personally, it doesn't bother me at all, but I feel that the religious undertones are present.

But regardless of my comments above, both programs have helped thousands of people. Although I do not have a sponsor, and do not plan on getting one, AlAnon continues to help me (I go 2-3 meetings per week).

Regarding the original post- Perhaps he feels threatened. Perhaps he doesn't understand. But as you will learn in AlAnon - His viewpoint is HIS DEAL.

Take what you want, leave the rest

Aeryn

I'll preface my comments by saying I do attend Alanon and get benefit from it - that said I do think it has it's faults. For me I just take what I want and leave the rest...sometimes that's hard though.

Like Mike I as an agnostic do think it IS a Christian program - that said if you live in a big city like I do you can go to various meetings until you find one that does not focus on the religious aspect. My group only does the serenity prayer and is not religion focused - though there have been speakers who have gone up there and said "if you continue this program you will come to understand a GOD" - then they said it is a spiritual program. My inner child was screaming during that meeting...I had to keep saying "take what you want and leave the rest". I come from a childhood where religion was used as a tool to control (ie "if you don't do what I want and say you will go to hell" was my mother's favorite) so I'm extra sensitive to it.

Also...and this is just me but I have issues with some of the literature/ideas that seems outdated to me and doesn't empower women. There is a success story in one of the books that talks about a woman going back to her abusive A husband who is now an RA and "only throws things" so isn't THAT abusive anymore....I know take what I want and leave the rest but sometimes I have a moral issue being in a program that does that because it goes against *my* core beliefs to condone in any way for women not to empower themselves (and instead to do what it takes for their man/relationship - especially with abuse). Also some speakers talking about sticking by their man at all costs have made me cringe (my inner child wanted to walk out that day but I kept telling myself "take what you want and leave the rest").

All that said - No I do not think Alanon is a cult - LOLOLOL!!!! hahahahah. That's what take what you want and leave the rest is all about. My STBXAH said the same thing once LMAO when he was trying to manipulate me.

Also I do STRONGLY suggest Alanon despite what I said above - I think it's about finding the right meeting and doing the old take what you want and leave the rest. I've gotten benefit from being in a positive room, from the support and from the slogans. I even adjusted a few of the steps to fit my agnostic beliefs and worked them and it did help.