Yup- I broke no contact
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Yup- I broke no contact
So while I know that no contact is best for all parties involved, I broke down and stopped by her apartment. I was nervous, she was nervous, but it ended up being a nice visit. We sat and talked for about an hour and a half. She has 70+ days sober, and looks great. The majority of the time was spent talking about her and her past few months. She has been diagnosed with BPD, and is on new medication. Her new psychiatrist thinks she has been improperly medicated for years. She was forced to come to terms with her eating disorder (restricting). She has a temporary roommate (friend from AA), and also has her puppy back. She is now in the outpatient portion of the rehab program, which lasts for 8 weeks. All of her legal issues appear to be wrapped up, with no major repercussions, and she is actively looking for a new job.
Not much discussion about the past or the future, other than us both saying we loved each other, and agreed that neither of us was happy with the way we were being treated. We hugged and kissed, and I went on my way.
It was really good to see her sober, and have a nice conversation with her.
One other thing- I asked her for help clarifying some of the rumors that I had heard- mainly that she has been blaming me for all of these years of drinking. She stated that "I have often justified my drinking, and would drink AT YOU. But at the end of the day, I drink because I am an alcoholic." Even though I know the three C's, it was good to hear her take accountability.
The visit really didn't change my thinking. I will continue to work on myself- One day at a time.
Not much discussion about the past or the future, other than us both saying we loved each other, and agreed that neither of us was happy with the way we were being treated. We hugged and kissed, and I went on my way.
It was really good to see her sober, and have a nice conversation with her.
One other thing- I asked her for help clarifying some of the rumors that I had heard- mainly that she has been blaming me for all of these years of drinking. She stated that "I have often justified my drinking, and would drink AT YOU. But at the end of the day, I drink because I am an alcoholic." Even though I know the three C's, it was good to hear her take accountability.
The visit really didn't change my thinking. I will continue to work on myself- One day at a time.
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Just wondering, who contacted whom to set up the apartment visit?
I've got to be honest with you, Crazed. I think you two are playing a dangerous game. This woman's literal survival depends on her sobriety. You exchanged "I love you's" but if you really loved her, in the sense that you would put her well being above your own needs, why would you risk seeing her until she had sobriety VERY firmly under her belt?
While I do understand your desire to not be blamed for her drinking, it was your job in recovery to realize yourself that you were not responsible for her drinking. Being happy she finally owned it is understandable, but it also gives her back the control over how you feel about yourself. If you are happy she says "you didn't make me drink", how can you not be sad when she says "you did make me drink"?
I am not judging you. Sh*t, I might have done the same thing in your situation. I'm just telling you what I see from the outside. Take what you want and leave the rest.
I've got to be honest with you, Crazed. I think you two are playing a dangerous game. This woman's literal survival depends on her sobriety. You exchanged "I love you's" but if you really loved her, in the sense that you would put her well being above your own needs, why would you risk seeing her until she had sobriety VERY firmly under her belt?
While I do understand your desire to not be blamed for her drinking, it was your job in recovery to realize yourself that you were not responsible for her drinking. Being happy she finally owned it is understandable, but it also gives her back the control over how you feel about yourself. If you are happy she says "you didn't make me drink", how can you not be sad when she says "you did make me drink"?
I am not judging you. Sh*t, I might have done the same thing in your situation. I'm just telling you what I see from the outside. Take what you want and leave the rest.
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So...did this provide you with some much needed reassurance and possibly some closure for now? If so - totally worth it.
Crazed, I hope you continue to work on yourself and let her go. At least for now. I can't help but think its best for both of you, for now.
Notice I keep saying "for now". That's because none of us can tell the future, and who knows what could happen in a year or few. But for now - let this woman come to grips with her issues and her life. 70 days is great, but its barely a blip on the screen of the rest of her life. The real challenges come later, when she feels good and on top of her life.
In the meantime, just think of who you can grow to become, and what adventures you can have in your own life, free from chaos and dysfunction.
Crazed, I hope you continue to work on yourself and let her go. At least for now. I can't help but think its best for both of you, for now.
Notice I keep saying "for now". That's because none of us can tell the future, and who knows what could happen in a year or few. But for now - let this woman come to grips with her issues and her life. 70 days is great, but its barely a blip on the screen of the rest of her life. The real challenges come later, when she feels good and on top of her life.
In the meantime, just think of who you can grow to become, and what adventures you can have in your own life, free from chaos and dysfunction.
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Originally Posted by Crazed 
So while I know that no contact is best for all parties involved, I broke down and stopped by her apartment.
She has been diagnosed with BPD, and is on new medication. Her new psychiatrist thinks she has been improperly medicated for years.
One other thing- I asked her for help clarifying some of the rumors that I had heard- mainly that she has been blaming me for all of these years of drinking.
She stated that "I have often justified my drinking, and would drink AT YOU. But at the end of the day, I drink because I am an alcoholic." Even though I know the three C's, it was good to hear her take accountability.
The visit really didn't change my thinking.
I will continue to work on myself- One day at a time.
All in this together.
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Crazed, I am going to relate an event in my life. Many years ago I had the "romance of my life" for 4yrs. I was so head over heels--and when it ended (by him), the shock and the pain was so BIG that for 6mo. I felt like I was dying by a the death of a thousand cuts. Roughly one year after the break-up--When I had gotten myself back on track--I got a call that he was in the neighborhood and wanted to come by to visit. I said "Sure, come by for dinner, tonight, I would love for you to meet the new guy I am seeing, also" He came early, we went to the grocery store together (like old times) and chatted while I cooked in the k itchen; he met my (future husband) and we had a civil and interesting dinner. After dinner, I walked him to his car. We talked a few minutes, and hugged with a light kiss. I have never seen or heard from him to this day. I walked back into the house with tears of relief and joy running down my face and collapsed into the arms of my (then) boyfriend--later, husband. I said "It is over--the dragon is dead".
That incident seemed to slam shut the door on one of the most hel**** years of my life--and one of the years that I learned more about myself than the 10 preceeding years put together!!
Crazed, I don't know if this helps you--I hope it does. I do think yours is a bit early--and, maybe she is dangerously new to recovery (as are you)---but, I felt I should tell you my experience. You can use it as you wish.
dandylion
That incident seemed to slam shut the door on one of the most hel**** years of my life--and one of the years that I learned more about myself than the 10 preceeding years put together!!
Crazed, I don't know if this helps you--I hope it does. I do think yours is a bit early--and, maybe she is dangerously new to recovery (as are you)---but, I felt I should tell you my experience. You can use it as you wish.
dandylion
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WAIT!!! - By BPD I meant to be Bipolar Depressions, not Borderline Personality Disorder. My mistake.
It was me who initiated the visit- I had some of her mail here (and some more lame excuses, which she and I made jokes about), and just stopped by. Her lame excuse of wanting to call me last week was to see if I had her George Foreman grill.
Through my own recovery, I know I didn't cause it. But having the feeling that she may have thought it was hurtful to me. More Crazy Thinking. Having her not put the blame on me, and taking ownership of it, just for some reason made me feel better. Maybe because I feel guilty for some of the things I have done and said to hurt her self esteem, etc. Maybe because I don't want to be the excuse for drinking. And maybe because I still seek her approval, and that she doesn't view me as a bad person. Beats me. But I do now understand a lot more about how I DID contribute (and I DID). I think the other part is that her admission is a sign to me that she is thinking and acting differently. Even if it is just for right now, it is different.
I do struggle with how I can be dangerous and impact her sobriety. There was no pressure, no deep conversations about us, no opening up of wounds, etc. It was like 2 old friends who know each other very well talking. And the conversation was very one sided- she seemed very excited to share with me what she has been doing.
I don't feel like this created any significant setbacks for me. I actually feel better knowing that she seems to be doing OK. We loved each other (good and bad) for 13 years. I will always want her to be OK, with or without me.
White chip for me....
It was me who initiated the visit- I had some of her mail here (and some more lame excuses, which she and I made jokes about), and just stopped by. Her lame excuse of wanting to call me last week was to see if I had her George Foreman grill.
Through my own recovery, I know I didn't cause it. But having the feeling that she may have thought it was hurtful to me. More Crazy Thinking. Having her not put the blame on me, and taking ownership of it, just for some reason made me feel better. Maybe because I feel guilty for some of the things I have done and said to hurt her self esteem, etc. Maybe because I don't want to be the excuse for drinking. And maybe because I still seek her approval, and that she doesn't view me as a bad person. Beats me. But I do now understand a lot more about how I DID contribute (and I DID). I think the other part is that her admission is a sign to me that she is thinking and acting differently. Even if it is just for right now, it is different.
I do struggle with how I can be dangerous and impact her sobriety. There was no pressure, no deep conversations about us, no opening up of wounds, etc. It was like 2 old friends who know each other very well talking. And the conversation was very one sided- she seemed very excited to share with me what she has been doing.
I don't feel like this created any significant setbacks for me. I actually feel better knowing that she seems to be doing OK. We loved each other (good and bad) for 13 years. I will always want her to be OK, with or without me.
White chip for me....
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Aww I was just teasing you crazed, that one day chip.
I'm glad you feel better after having seen her, and not worse. Whew! Good. Now what for you? She has such a long road to go before she can say she is out of the woods, what are you going to do with your life? She has all this work to do, simply to stay sober. Reminds me how lucky I am that I'm not an addict. Life has enough challenges for me without that too.
I'm glad you feel better after having seen her, and not worse. Whew! Good. Now what for you? She has such a long road to go before she can say she is out of the woods, what are you going to do with your life? She has all this work to do, simply to stay sober. Reminds me how lucky I am that I'm not an addict. Life has enough challenges for me without that too.
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I undertand how seeing her made you feel better, Crazed. Since my break up with exabf, I have had two "relapses" of contact. The first actually did make me feel better. The second derailed me for about two weeks and was a serious mistake on my part. My ex was not in recovery which makes things a bit different.
It was totally healthy for you to come clean here on SR. I was so ashamed of my recent contact with my ex that like the true junkie I am, I just tried to pretend it never happened.
Anyway, any experience we use to learn from and grow is valuable. It really is about progress not perfection. And whoever said we are all in this together was spot on.
It was totally healthy for you to come clean here on SR. I was so ashamed of my recent contact with my ex that like the true junkie I am, I just tried to pretend it never happened.
Anyway, any experience we use to learn from and grow is valuable. It really is about progress not perfection. And whoever said we are all in this together was spot on.
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Originally Posted by Crazed
I do struggle with how I can be dangerous and impact her sobriety.
Your situation with her was dysfunctional and unhealthy for both of you. For her to be successful at getting sober and stable (bipolar is pretty intense too!) it's best she not be in situations that are potentially stressful, especially those that helped further her addictions and issues in the past.
Again, it doesn't mean that sometime down the road - you can't get back together and have a healthy and fulfilling relationship at that time. That's always a possibility.
Try not to take this personally, because it really isn't about you at all.
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Try not to take this personally, because it really isn't about you at all.
I, unfortunately, do take it personally. That has been a big issue of mine- Knowing that therapists and counselors whom have never met me, or even spoken a word to me, suggest that she has no contact with me. It make me think that I am being portrayed as the villain in this saga
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That is part of codependency – taking everything personal – I’ve come to see it as selfish, thinking I am that important that everything people do or say has to relate to me somehow. I no longer live with that heavy Burdon.
Part of that feeling like the villain is also very codependent because there is NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING HEALTHY TO ONESELF. So of course any therapist or counselor would tell you the correct thing to do.
Because
there is no codie medal of honor or a big fat codie prize for sticking around someone who lies to you, steels from you and blames you for their behavior.
Part of that feeling like the villain is also very codependent because there is NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING HEALTHY TO ONESELF. So of course any therapist or counselor would tell you the correct thing to do.
Because
there is no codie medal of honor or a big fat codie prize for sticking around someone who lies to you, steels from you and blames you for their behavior.
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Originally Posted by Crazed
Since when?
I, unfortunately, do take it personally. That has been a big issue of mine- Knowing that therapists and counselors whom have never met me, or even spoken a word to me, suggest that she has no contact with me. It make me think that I am being portrayed as the villain in this saga
I, unfortunately, do take it personally. That has been a big issue of mine- Knowing that therapists and counselors whom have never met me, or even spoken a word to me, suggest that she has no contact with me. It make me think that I am being portrayed as the villain in this saga
It's not a hit to you, it's the reality of the situation. Your girlfriend was at rock bottom, she had to quit or go to jail. It's not because you make her drink, it's because you provide her a soft place to land. She suffers no consequences with her enabler in her life. It's simply the way it is.
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Crazed, it seems like whatever the Ts and Cs have told her works since she's taking responsibility for her drinking. (That's a lot better than my Xah's therapist who agrees with him
that of course he had to drink when he was married to a full-octane witch like me; that without ever meeting me...)
I don't think it's personal - I think they're saying the same thing to her that previous posters are saying to you: "Let's forget about other people for a while and focus on YOU."
I hope the meeting gave you some peace. I don't think it's a capital offense or anything - and honestly, I'm more worried about its effect on you than on her. I hope you're OK.
that of course he had to drink when he was married to a full-octane witch like me; that without ever meeting me...)
I don't think it's personal - I think they're saying the same thing to her that previous posters are saying to you: "Let's forget about other people for a while and focus on YOU."
I hope the meeting gave you some peace. I don't think it's a capital offense or anything - and honestly, I'm more worried about its effect on you than on her. I hope you're OK.
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Originally Posted by lillamy
. . . . that of course he had to drink when he was married to a full-octane witch like me; that without ever meeting me...)
Maybe yours, too?
Did anyone mention that A / A / A(s) tend to . . . lie a little?
No? Ok, real deal.
They LIE. A LOT.
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Originally Posted by Crazed
WAIT!!! - By BPD I meant to be Bipolar Depressions, not Borderline Personality Disorder. My mistake.
At least Bi-Poilar tends to sometimes be treatable with meds.
But did I track Eating Disorder in there, too?
Still could have some Borderline in the mix. Sometimes they just call it "traits." But often the whole label is avoided. Long-Term Personality Disorder, and most Insurance will not cover it.
But not your problem, now.
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As I've said before, Crazed, for you (and anyone else who is addicted to another person), having that one contact is exactly like the alcoholic having just one drink. The first time, wow, that wasn't so terrible. In fact, it did something good for me. I won't need any more--this got it out of my system. Yup, glad I did it. I'm good to go now.
EXCEPT that a few days later, or maybe even a week or two later, you start feeling some kind of anxiety again about the relationship, and you start to rationalize that last time, having contact made you feel better. So this time probably will, too. And nothing bad happened last time, I've got a good reason to call her/text her/see her/check up on her with her family or friends. So you do it again.
And before you know it, one of you crashes and burns and the whole cycle starts over again. That's what happens when you feed an addiction.
I have not heard that you have reliable information that ANYONE else is blaming you for her drinking. Katie is right--her being with you right now is not healthy for her, NOT because you cause her to drink, but because you do too much for her. She has never had a chance to stand, sober, on her own two feet for any length of time because you are right there putting a pillow under her in case she stumbles.
Toddlers learning to walk fall down on a regular basis. If their parents sheltered them from any chance of falling down, they would probably wind up developmentally delayed (and pretty neurotic adults, assuming that this is a preview of what their childhood will be like). She needs to be left alone to learn to be a strong and capable sober woman. You mean well, you love her, but you hover.
You seem so terribly fearful that she will become strong enough to leave you or to live and be happy without you. Loosen the grip, let her grow. Let YOURSELF grow. You are an independent individual, too--or you should be.
Symbiotic relationships are great for lower life forms, but lousy for human beings.
I hope you will work on getting your focus back where it belongs.
EXCEPT that a few days later, or maybe even a week or two later, you start feeling some kind of anxiety again about the relationship, and you start to rationalize that last time, having contact made you feel better. So this time probably will, too. And nothing bad happened last time, I've got a good reason to call her/text her/see her/check up on her with her family or friends. So you do it again.
And before you know it, one of you crashes and burns and the whole cycle starts over again. That's what happens when you feed an addiction.
I have not heard that you have reliable information that ANYONE else is blaming you for her drinking. Katie is right--her being with you right now is not healthy for her, NOT because you cause her to drink, but because you do too much for her. She has never had a chance to stand, sober, on her own two feet for any length of time because you are right there putting a pillow under her in case she stumbles.
Toddlers learning to walk fall down on a regular basis. If their parents sheltered them from any chance of falling down, they would probably wind up developmentally delayed (and pretty neurotic adults, assuming that this is a preview of what their childhood will be like). She needs to be left alone to learn to be a strong and capable sober woman. You mean well, you love her, but you hover.
You seem so terribly fearful that she will become strong enough to leave you or to live and be happy without you. Loosen the grip, let her grow. Let YOURSELF grow. You are an independent individual, too--or you should be.
Symbiotic relationships are great for lower life forms, but lousy for human beings.
I hope you will work on getting your focus back where it belongs.
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