Just need to know what you think!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Cheshire, N.W England
Posts: 6,803
Just need to know what you think!
Hi all
I really need your opinions on this situation if you have a little time to read. It has nothing to do with my drinking or my recovery but I don’t know who else to talk to about this.
My son is in his late 30’s and since being about 17 he has constantly brought trouble to my door. At the moment i am bringing up his 3 yr old son because neither he or his ex g.friend have the capability to give him the care and attention he needs.
My son is intelligent, has had some good jobs, is multi lingual, but has consistently made bad decisions right up to the present day and once again has got himself into a large amount of debt, for some reason he seems to think he is exempt from paying bills. It would take me a month to write about all the things he has done to me, so I’ll just write about the events of the last few days.
On Friday evening a letter was pushed through my letter box, from a tool hire company, not in an envelope and for the attention of my son, at my address advising that if he didn’t pay the £500.00 plus he owes them within 7 days, they would be issuing him with a summons for court. At first I thought that the letter had gone to a neighbours and they had opened it, then pushed it through my letterbox with it not being in an envelope, then when I checked further it was dated that same day, so I presume it had been hand delivered.
I gave the letter to my son on Saturday who was amazed that I had not just returned it back to the company and did not give me any answers as to why he had hired whatever it was against my address!!! We have bailed him out so many times and are now refusing to do this again , my O.H and myself have 5 adult children between us and he has had more than all the others put together! I was so annoyed with him that yesterday I wrote to the hire company and also emailed them with his address and current phone no.
I got home from work last night at 7.30 to find a debt collector on my doorstep looking for payment! He clearly did not believe my O.H when he told them he does not live at our address and has not done so for a number of years. I gave him my sons address and phone number.
Today during my lunch break I nipped to my sons to give him an email I had from someone who wanted him to do a job for them, he asked what was wrong with my face, so I told him what I had done. O.M.G I am now the worst person in the world, I give him no support, I should have just told the man he didn’t live there and I didn’t know where he was, I should have phoned the police to move him!!! Everything he has done re bringing his son over from Spain ( where he lived with his ex) he has done for everyone, not just for him! He can’t cope, he feels ill, he will send his son back to Spain, tears, the full works.
He has made me feel so bad, guilty even, like the hardest, most uncaring person in the world, though I know deep inside I’m not. He shows no remorse about using my address, or having debt collectors call. I tried to explain to him that he is an adult now and responsible for his own actions, that he has let himself get in a big bad mess yet again, letting the bills pile up without making any arrangements to pay them etc. etc. but he doesn’t want to listen to that, it’s all my fault because I criticise him for everything apparently!
The worst thing is too that he is renting his house from one of my neighbours, whom I have known for over 30 years. We bailed him out with his rent back in Feb because he owed 2 months, so I just dread to ask!!
Sorry for rambling on, but I feel so much better for getting all that off my chest.
Thank you.
Gx
I really need your opinions on this situation if you have a little time to read. It has nothing to do with my drinking or my recovery but I don’t know who else to talk to about this.
My son is in his late 30’s and since being about 17 he has constantly brought trouble to my door. At the moment i am bringing up his 3 yr old son because neither he or his ex g.friend have the capability to give him the care and attention he needs.
My son is intelligent, has had some good jobs, is multi lingual, but has consistently made bad decisions right up to the present day and once again has got himself into a large amount of debt, for some reason he seems to think he is exempt from paying bills. It would take me a month to write about all the things he has done to me, so I’ll just write about the events of the last few days.
On Friday evening a letter was pushed through my letter box, from a tool hire company, not in an envelope and for the attention of my son, at my address advising that if he didn’t pay the £500.00 plus he owes them within 7 days, they would be issuing him with a summons for court. At first I thought that the letter had gone to a neighbours and they had opened it, then pushed it through my letterbox with it not being in an envelope, then when I checked further it was dated that same day, so I presume it had been hand delivered.
I gave the letter to my son on Saturday who was amazed that I had not just returned it back to the company and did not give me any answers as to why he had hired whatever it was against my address!!! We have bailed him out so many times and are now refusing to do this again , my O.H and myself have 5 adult children between us and he has had more than all the others put together! I was so annoyed with him that yesterday I wrote to the hire company and also emailed them with his address and current phone no.
I got home from work last night at 7.30 to find a debt collector on my doorstep looking for payment! He clearly did not believe my O.H when he told them he does not live at our address and has not done so for a number of years. I gave him my sons address and phone number.
Today during my lunch break I nipped to my sons to give him an email I had from someone who wanted him to do a job for them, he asked what was wrong with my face, so I told him what I had done. O.M.G I am now the worst person in the world, I give him no support, I should have just told the man he didn’t live there and I didn’t know where he was, I should have phoned the police to move him!!! Everything he has done re bringing his son over from Spain ( where he lived with his ex) he has done for everyone, not just for him! He can’t cope, he feels ill, he will send his son back to Spain, tears, the full works.
He has made me feel so bad, guilty even, like the hardest, most uncaring person in the world, though I know deep inside I’m not. He shows no remorse about using my address, or having debt collectors call. I tried to explain to him that he is an adult now and responsible for his own actions, that he has let himself get in a big bad mess yet again, letting the bills pile up without making any arrangements to pay them etc. etc. but he doesn’t want to listen to that, it’s all my fault because I criticise him for everything apparently!
The worst thing is too that he is renting his house from one of my neighbours, whom I have known for over 30 years. We bailed him out with his rent back in Feb because he owed 2 months, so I just dread to ask!!
Sorry for rambling on, but I feel so much better for getting all that off my chest.
Thank you.
Gx
Programmaddict
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: God's Hands
Posts: 217
In my program of recovery I am asked to neither contribute to a crisis nor prevent one if it is the natural course of events. Generally, this means not doing for others what they can do for themselves and letting others enjoy the consequences of their actions just as I enjoy the consequences of my own actions.
Also, I take responsibility for my feelings with some cognizance of the fact that no person can make me feel any which way.
One thing is for certain, I make zero progress when my focus is on another person and what they are or are not doing.
Also, I take responsibility for my feelings with some cognizance of the fact that no person can make me feel any which way.
One thing is for certain, I make zero progress when my focus is on another person and what they are or are not doing.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I would confine my interactions with him to necessary communication concerning his son.
Apart from that, I would have no contact with him, just as with an alcoholic ex-partner who is trying to harass me or take advantage of me. He can only take advantage of you to the extent you allow him to. He is an adult and responsible for himself. Stop paying his bills and running interference for him. If you worry for your friend's rent, you can tell her that you are done covering his expenses and if he falls behind in the rent she should do what she has to do--sue him, evict him, whatever. And if you stay out of his affairs going forward you won't have anything to feel guilty about because you won't have any involvement in whatever he gets himself into.
Apart from that, I would have no contact with him, just as with an alcoholic ex-partner who is trying to harass me or take advantage of me. He can only take advantage of you to the extent you allow him to. He is an adult and responsible for himself. Stop paying his bills and running interference for him. If you worry for your friend's rent, you can tell her that you are done covering his expenses and if he falls behind in the rent she should do what she has to do--sue him, evict him, whatever. And if you stay out of his affairs going forward you won't have anything to feel guilty about because you won't have any involvement in whatever he gets himself into.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,407
Can you picture yourself taking care of his "stuff" when he is in his 50's? Because that's where you're headed if you don't set boundaries now. If he doesn't get it now, he won't get it later. My parents never learned to say "no" to my brother, so in their early 80's they are still picking up after a 50yo man.
Of course he's going to get angry. That's okay. You're allowed to do what is right for you, and he's allowed to have his reaction. Doesn't mean his reaction changes the course of your plans. You have no reason to feel guilty. He is an adult.
I agree with the others. I would keep communication with regards to your grandson, but limit it to that. Let your son deal with the consequences that come from his decisions, it's the only way he'll learn.
Of course he's going to get angry. That's okay. You're allowed to do what is right for you, and he's allowed to have his reaction. Doesn't mean his reaction changes the course of your plans. You have no reason to feel guilty. He is an adult.
I agree with the others. I would keep communication with regards to your grandson, but limit it to that. Let your son deal with the consequences that come from his decisions, it's the only way he'll learn.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Dear Grace, Strongly resist the inclination to feel mother's guilt. I am the mother of an alcoholic son--so, I know it is easier said than done!!
He is simply blame-shifting to take the spotlight off of him. He knows where your hot buttons are so he readily goes for them.
You did the right thing. He freely uses your address--so, he asked for the letter to go there. He should thank God that you have been as good to him as you are.
Get your thick skin and detach from his reaction. Stick to your guns, mum.
sincerely, dandylion
He is simply blame-shifting to take the spotlight off of him. He knows where your hot buttons are so he readily goes for them.
You did the right thing. He freely uses your address--so, he asked for the letter to go there. He should thank God that you have been as good to him as you are.
Get your thick skin and detach from his reaction. Stick to your guns, mum.
sincerely, dandylion
Living in a Pinkful Place
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 7,545
((Grace))
When i got into recovery - my home group studied both the steps & the traditions of Al-Anon.
I know that most people look at the Traditions to keep an Al-Anon group healthy but I learned that those Traditions can be applied to my life to keep me healthy too.
Tradition 7 - Every group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions.
This Tradition talks about the group taking care of it's self and not allowing outside groups to influence it's decisions.
I also learn that it can be applied to adults also. That every person should be self supporting. And that by doing for others what they possibly could do for themselves - we are limiting their ability to develop their own self-respect, dignity and self-worth.
This is very hard to do when it comes to our children - even when they are adults ~
But when I learned it in this aspect - it helped me to start letting go ~
wishing the best for your son & for you
Pink hugs!
When i got into recovery - my home group studied both the steps & the traditions of Al-Anon.
I know that most people look at the Traditions to keep an Al-Anon group healthy but I learned that those Traditions can be applied to my life to keep me healthy too.
Tradition 7 - Every group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions.
This Tradition talks about the group taking care of it's self and not allowing outside groups to influence it's decisions.
I also learn that it can be applied to adults also. That every person should be self supporting. And that by doing for others what they possibly could do for themselves - we are limiting their ability to develop their own self-respect, dignity and self-worth.
This is very hard to do when it comes to our children - even when they are adults ~
But when I learned it in this aspect - it helped me to start letting go ~
wishing the best for your son & for you
Pink hugs!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
Everything he has done re bringing his son over from Spain ( where he lived with his ex) he has done for everyone, not just for him! He can’t cope, he feels ill, he will send his son back to Spain, tears, the full works.
What can you do to protect the 3 year old from his father doing anything irrational to "punish" you for what he thinks are plots against him.
If he can say, it is too much I will send your grandson (who you have been caring for) back to Spain, that is manipulation to the nth degree.
What legal rights do you have to prevent this? I have no ideas.
I wish I could run away with my grandchild and never speak to her addicted parents again, and one of her parents is my son.
In my program of recovery I am asked to neither contribute to a crisis nor prevent one if it is the natural course of events
Sorry Grace2, did I make a lot of assumptions about you and your grandson?
I just hate to think he is using your love for your grandson to keep you enmeshed and miserably tied to his messed up (by his own hand) life.
My son is 31, and I understand this constant chaos. I am sorry and hope you find a resolution soon.
One thing that is starting to work for me, (maybe not the best choice for everyone) is getting angry when I recognize my buttons are being pushed.
He knows what works. And using my compassion and guilt to get what he wants.
That makes me mad. Then, I remember, I have a choice.
I can say no. And deal with the consequences.
No is being said around here a lot more.
Simple, but not easy.
Thinking of you, praying for strength.
Beth
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: East Coast, The States
Posts: 12,162
Will your son cut off your care of your grandson as revenge? Is that legally possible?
If it is possible take steps now so that it is not possible.
If you have custody of your grandson and your son cannot take him away, then let your son have his tantrums.
Everytime someone has taken my consequences for me, I often don't learn to change.
But everytime I must take the consequences of my actions myself,
I am more likely to learn to change.
Grace, taking a consistent stand will hurt at first but it must be done and done consistently.. No intermittent reinforcement. Like with a toddler, if you cave inn then they learn that their tantrums will eventually wear you down.
I know it is hard but being a parent is terribly hard. You can do this. Big hugs to you.
Love EQ. xoxo
If it is possible take steps now so that it is not possible.
If you have custody of your grandson and your son cannot take him away, then let your son have his tantrums.
Everytime someone has taken my consequences for me, I often don't learn to change.
But everytime I must take the consequences of my actions myself,
I am more likely to learn to change.
Grace, taking a consistent stand will hurt at first but it must be done and done consistently.. No intermittent reinforcement. Like with a toddler, if you cave inn then they learn that their tantrums will eventually wear you down.
I know it is hard but being a parent is terribly hard. You can do this. Big hugs to you.
Love EQ. xoxo
Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,247
Grace...I read through your post...I believe that Eternal has summed up my thinking; especially the first paragraph.
It is hard being a parent; but I believe you cannot allow your son to shift responsibilities for these debt to you or your OH...Time to grow up..
Jim
It is hard being a parent; but I believe you cannot allow your son to shift responsibilities for these debt to you or your OH...Time to grow up..
Jim
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Cheshire, N.W England
Posts: 6,803
Thank you all so much for taking the time to read my post, you've all more or less told me what I believe is right, what I know is right, I think I just needed to sound this out with people who are not involved with me, I know that I am a good person and this manipulation and emotional black mail has to stop now. I've been so upset today I guess I just needed some reassurance that I've done the right thing.
Programmatic, I had to read your post a few times before I got the message, thank you.
Neferkamichael, if only it was that easy, but thanks.
Lexiecat that is exactly what I'm trying to do. I told him it would be the last time back in Feb when I payed his rent arrears and I only did that because I was embarrassed because the house belongs to my neighbour and what's worse is it was her beloved mother-in-laws house, but you're right, it isn't my responsibility and I do remember telling her when she first let him have the house to make sure he set up a Direct Debit payment plan to cover the rent.
Recovering, thanks for your comments too and yes it's well past the time to take responsibility for his own actions.
Thank you Dandelion, he isn't an alcoholic by the way, that's me, a recovering one, he's just a big pain in the ass! I'm determined to stick to my guns.
MrsPinkacres, I found your post very helpful and you've helped make me feel better.
Beth, thank you also for that most helpful post and I can really relate to what you said about learning to say no, I'm learning. Thanks for praying for me, I appreciate it.
Dear E.Q though that thought has crossed my mind I doubt very, very much that he will do that, the court hearing for custody is 18 June, so not long to wait. I doubt very much too that he would let his ex take him as we know full well that he would be taken to the Dominican where she is from and he would be lost to him and to us.
Thank you Jim too for your wise words, you know how much I appreciate your support.
Bless you all. If he didn't look so much like his father I'd swear they'd given me the wrong baby when he was born!!!
Gx
Programmatic, I had to read your post a few times before I got the message, thank you.
Neferkamichael, if only it was that easy, but thanks.
Lexiecat that is exactly what I'm trying to do. I told him it would be the last time back in Feb when I payed his rent arrears and I only did that because I was embarrassed because the house belongs to my neighbour and what's worse is it was her beloved mother-in-laws house, but you're right, it isn't my responsibility and I do remember telling her when she first let him have the house to make sure he set up a Direct Debit payment plan to cover the rent.
Recovering, thanks for your comments too and yes it's well past the time to take responsibility for his own actions.
Thank you Dandelion, he isn't an alcoholic by the way, that's me, a recovering one, he's just a big pain in the ass! I'm determined to stick to my guns.
MrsPinkacres, I found your post very helpful and you've helped make me feel better.
Beth, thank you also for that most helpful post and I can really relate to what you said about learning to say no, I'm learning. Thanks for praying for me, I appreciate it.
Dear E.Q though that thought has crossed my mind I doubt very, very much that he will do that, the court hearing for custody is 18 June, so not long to wait. I doubt very much too that he would let his ex take him as we know full well that he would be taken to the Dominican where she is from and he would be lost to him and to us.
Thank you Jim too for your wise words, you know how much I appreciate your support.
Bless you all. If he didn't look so much like his father I'd swear they'd given me the wrong baby when he was born!!!
Gx
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