MakingMeHappy

My ASTBXH and I separated in September 2012. I let his parents know that I was going to be in our hometown for Thanksgiving and gave them 2 days with DD while I stayed with my family. I let them take her again for 1 week in Dec. for vacation. They failed to return her directly to me as we had agreed upon prior to the vacation even though their son had just had his breathalyzer removed from his car. My In Laws want her again for a week this summer which I agreed to. Earlier this week, I emailed them and offered to send sand toys with her since they are going to be at the beach together and got a very curt reply from them about them picking her up from my STBX’s place. I understand that they only know his side of the story. I don't want to call or email and tell them everything. However, I do feel that after 20 years of marriage and being a part of their family that they could treat me with a little respect. I am tired of being manipulated and don't want to put my DD in the middle. My H and I are not legally separated and there is no formal custody agreement at this point. What is the right thing for me to do? She is going with them for a week this summer since I agreed and I honor my word. My question is ...next time can I say no? Is it wrong to say that they are welcome to see her on their son's time?

LexieCat

Without a court order you can do whatever you want to. Or don't want to, as the case may be. You would be well within your rights to tell them that since they seem to have a problem with honoring the arrangements you prefer, they can visit your daughter when she is with her dad. You could do that now, in fact. They didn't honor their agreement with you last time--I'm not sure I would care to be all that accommodating of them right now.

dandylion

Dear MakingMeHappy, of course, you know them and I don't, I personally, would take the HIGH ROAD first, because of your child. Would it be possible to have a very curteous heart to heart talk with them--about the importance of co-operation and civility--with the emphasis placed on how this benefits their grandchild to have the maximum time with her grandparents?

I'm always in favor of taking the High Road as the first option (when possible).
I'm just spitballin, here.......

dandylion

MakingMeHappy

Thanks Lexie and Dandylion...
I want to be tough with my in laws but I know they only know his side of this story...I am a big "B" and cause him to drink. I think that they buy that story even though I know the 3 C's. I am trying so hard to make this separation and divorce work for all of us. I'm not sure that I am though. My kiddo deserves way more happiness than we have had recently. I wish I could "fix it" for us. Urrrrgh....

skippernlilg

"It's none of my business what other people think of me". You're doing well with this! Like many A's, yours has shed the most favorable light upon himself as possible. Think about it, he had to load on a whole lot to make his playing field more even. That's how he thinks. If you meet curt with curt, you'll only give ammunition to the story. Especially if it's against your very nature. Be true to who you are, realize that people who genuinely love our children are a gift to our children, indeed, and carry on today with a smile on your face.

JenT1968

I have struggled with this too, and have tried many different arrangements, one where his parents only arranged contact with him and he passed that on to me (didn't work, he didn't relay simple needed information, and convinced them that I had changed arrangements when I was following the letter of his email). I've tried giving him a lift to their house as well as the kids (didn't work, he didn't answer the phone or door so after 30mins I left without him, and turned up at their house 6 hours later, at which point they persuaded me to give him a lift back, he passed out in the car after being beligerent - lesson learned!). They let him bring them back on a train, he lied about when and didn't keep to the arrangement (I know he drinks to passing out on trains - he is not doing that again).

I have tried explaining and defendng myself agianst some of the wild nonsense I heard repeated from them that clearly came from ex's distorted rationalisation, but got upset, and I can't defend myself for ever, over each new twisted piece of info he gives them. we can't both be telling the truth and I wish them every piece of luck in the world with that. I have mourned my relationship with them, but have accepted it's loss. I bite my tounge, am unflinchingly civil and make the arrangements with them myself, by email.

I am clear that I do the handovers with them not him and that if he is there I am holding them responsible for their welfare. They apparently (according to ex) think I am a sociopath, and other less than savory things, I have no idea what they really think, of me or him, but painfully came to the conclusion that I couldn't influence that, they will see me in whatever way best fits their world view, despite the evidence of their own dealings with him (reducing his mother to tears many times, false accusations about his childhood etc) and are doing the best to maintain their own sanity within that worldview.

I'm polite and flexible, but firm, if they do not follow key arrangements that keep the children safe, there won't be any more.

JenT1968

another thing - you have to give yourself permission to change your mind when you have fully processed the info - "keeping your word" is very laudible, but "keeping your word" when you have had time to think about it and now don't think it's the best course of action?

I now try not to promise anything until I have had a good long time to think about it. But if I get increasingly unhappy about a decision, I have given myself permission to take it back: the sky does not fall in, I am not publicly flogged for crimes against humanity and his parents already think I am a sociopath, so no damage done there!

lillamy

To me there is only one question that is interesting when it comes to my kids: Will they be safe?

A person who did not have enough respect for me to honor a verbal agreement the last time? I would probably not feel comfortable leaving my children with such a person at all.

MakingMeHappy

On May 15th I informed the inlaws and ASTBXH that DD was available to be picked up on June 16th at 3 pm. This Monday, AH text me that he would be picking her up on Saturday. I text back "No" and informed him that it is my weekend with her. I also reminded him that I had told him and his parents on May 15th that she was available at 3 pm on June 16th.

Yesterday I received an email from my inlaws that they want to send DD to swim lessons during the week they have her. I had just recently found a 6 week free swim lesson course with a certified instructor that I wanted to sign her up for but my AH refused to take her to the registration (during his time share) and insisted that he would teach her how to swim himself. So I responded to them that it was fine with me but that I tried that recently and he refused. I asked if they had his permission. I reminded them that I was entrusting her into their care for the week. I told them I expected her to be with them next week (She keeps saying "I'm staying at Daddy's for 4 nights") and that I expect her to be returned to me next Sunday.

Tonight my inlaws called me. I didn't answer. The voicemail is from my father in law and they want to have DD earlier tomorrow for lunch "since it's Father's Day".

I have not responded. They have had the date and time for a month now. Father's Day didn't just pop up. They could have asked this earlier and maybe I would have been more willing to do so.

I am annoyed. I am angry. I wish that I wasn't considering saying yes. I am fearful that if I say no they will help my AH out with attorney fees for the divorce. I need to sleep on it and stick to what I said. I need to show them and my AH that I will not keep bending for them.

LexieCat

You think that they won't help him out with money for a lawyer as long as you play nice with them? I highly doubt it.

It's up to you whether you let your daughter go with them for Father's Day. But I wouldn't base my decision on what you think they will do to help their son with his attorney's fees.

If I were you, I'd look into getting a custody/visitation order in place. It makes things a lot simpler if it's all spelled out in the order. This endless negotiating has to be exhausting.

MakingMeHappy

I agree, I would love a custody order and child support order as well. My attorney wants me to offer a settlement agreement and to schedule a mediation. My H hasn't taken the divorce class or filed his financial affidavit yet. I think my attorney is waiting for the dust to settle with the house situation. Our marital home has been foreclosed upon and I am moving within the next 2 weeks. On the plus side, my new apartment is the first place that I have chosen all by myself since I was 19 years old in college and I love it! I can't wait to move there with my DD.

About the vacation with DD and my inlaws...I never responded to the voicemail last night asking to pick her up earlier today. I figured that they have known for a month they can have her at 3 pm and they didn't request differently even though we have communicated several times since then. Today at 2:30 I got a text from AH that his parents were on their way to pick her up. She had a gift for AH and eagerly told his parents about it. His dad said that she can give it to him next weekend when she sees him. WOW! I guess that having DD see her Dad on Father's Day wasn't that much of a priority for them after all. They took her off to the beach for their week together. I feel disappointed for her that she didn't get to spend time with her Dad on Father's Day. She worked so hard on that gift...a painting of the two of them swimming together which we framed and wrapped in wrapping paper she also made. Now she has to wait another week to give it to him. Oh well. I don't feel guilty about this at all. His parents could have asked for a different pick up time a few weeks ago and I may have been willing to do so. AH could have insisted to them that he get to spend time with her today. They did not. I feel sorry for my kiddo, but it is what it is.

AnvilheadII

so wait, HIS own parents trumped him on FATHERS DAY??? sorry, they sound very toxic and manipulative. i'd be less inclined to make these visits EASY for them, as they show no respect to you OR their own son.....just my three cents.

MakingMeHappy

Thanks Anvil, I can't wait until my divorce is final. Then his parents can see DD on AH's time. I am done! After 9 months of separation, I finally see where some of my AH's issues stem from (his FOO).

I have tried for years to make everyone happy. It did not help me at all. It is my turn now. My DD and I deserve to live a life with peace and serenity. I am going to make that happen for us!

AnvilheadII

yes you will, i have no doubt!

LexieCat

Just throwing a possibility out there--and maybe I'm way off base. Maybe your husband isn't dependable about making time for his folks to see your daughter. And maybe they wanted to see her today because GRANDPAS celebrate Father's Day, too.

I agree, the whole family sounds rather screwed up, with nobody managing to communicate the way adults should.

Anyway, hope your daughter has a nice visit with them and with her dad, and that you get to enjoy some peaceful time during your week off from "mom-ing".

Lulu39

I echo Lexie's thoughts. Enjoy some time to yourself.

Just wanted to tell you a story about my ex's FOO. They are all drunks. All of them. Trying to understand them has driven me crazy for 20 years. So glad I am done.

A couple of years ago my ex MIL and her husband were visiting town for her other son's wedding to his new enabler. Other son, the groom, my ex BIL, had "booked" motel rooms for all the guests. He had assured ex MIL it was all taken care of.

As ex MIL was staying with me the night before she was going to her "booked" motel room, I asked her to check that her other son, the groom, my ex BIL, had actually "booked" her a room. She assured me that he had because all the other out of town guests (the bride's relatives ) had their rooms already. I called BS and phoned the motel and of course, no room was booked. I managed to book ex MIL the last room available in the motel.

Night of the wedding, I took 4 kids home with me, my two and the groom's two. Morning after the wedding all the family were invited to a fancy breakfast, oh, that's everyone except me and the groom's kids. They just forgot about us, what a funny little oversight...ex BIL is so drunk and so self absorbed he forgot to invite his own freakin' KIDS to the family breakfast!

I don't pretend to understand these people and I never, ever will. They are my ex-inlaws now. I can't fathom how my ex MIL hasn't bothered to contact my children in more than 9 months. Perhaps I'm being punished for kicking her golden boy out.

They sh*t me to tears. Assh*les.

MakingMeHappy

In his defense, my ASTBXH doesn't have her for a week at a time yet. His parents have always taken her for a week in December and a week in the summer. They can't do that on his time right now.

I have offered AH 2 night weekends and he has taken me up on that twice since our separation. Both times there were issues...sunburn, kissing another girl in front of DD, and taking her to a party where other adults (his drinking buddies) were getting drunk. I also offered AH one evening every week but so far he has declined. As it stands without a formal custody agreement, he has her two "weekends" (24 hour overnights each) and two evenings (every other week evening) each month. What he wants is every weekend from 3 pm Sat to 3 pm Sun. However, that does not work for me. I need to be able to do things with her on weekends too and not have to be home by a certain time. I did try it for a few weeks. It sucked. I take her somewhere and have to leave early. I am doing all of the normal stuff...taking her to school, homework, baths, books, bed and could only do partial weekend fun....NO! I get the fun time too.

His parents only know the things I had to share to keep DD safe and what my AH is telling them. I am trying to be the bigger person in all this. It is HARD! Yesterday I called and I was very friendly "Hi ___father in law's name___. How are you?" What I got was a delayed response and then a flat "Yes Do you want to talk to DD?" "I'd love to" I replied.

I really think that I don't want to let her go with them again on "my" time. They didn't respond to my email about swimming lessons, they failed to honor their agreement last Dec., they tried to change the pick up time at the last minute this vacation, they changed the plan for who would pick her up and prevented her from seeing her Dad on Father's Day, and my father in law couldn't speak to me respectfully yesterday when I called my DD. I honestly don't think that they have her best interests in mind. I want to be done with them.

Lulu39

Be done!

Next time they want to spend time with your daughter they can do it on her father's time.

They are disrespecting you and the relationship you and your daughter have.

stella27

MMH,

When I lived in the same town with XAH and his parents, I always gave into their requests and because they are pushy, entitled people who raised a narcissistic son, when I tried to insist on having the kids in MY life, too - not just being the nanny to raise the children while they did all the fun stuff - they got nasty with me.

I finally moved away. It has helped. Now they have to negotiate with their son and I am able to give my kids a family and home life.

My advice is to set firm boundaries now and not allow yourself to be pushed around or made to feel guilty. My ex-in-laws were the types to take a mile when I gave an inch. I don't know if that's how yours are, but it sounds like it.

Confetti

You've got some great advice here, But also....

Keep a journal! Write down everything your child tells you about their time with their dad. Some time, there will be an agreement, and it'll come in handy for the lawyer to see exactly what goes on.