MilaWhite

Being a sister to an alcoholic I have turned to several different places for advice. Therapists, open counseling, AA, different organisations, etc. Sadly the most common advice (I don't really consider it an advice) I get is this: "Cut him out of your life." I sometimes speak with a mother of a 17-year old daughter. She has been told several times to just kick her daughter out of the house and stop talking to her, until she is clean. The counselor she was talking to at the time did not really give her any other advice. He just kept telling her to do it.
In the case of a 17 year old girl with a serious drugaddiction, it looks like a death sentence to leave her on the streets. (The girl is currently in treatment and her mother did not kick her out.)

Sometimes I wonder if I'm just weak because I'm not able to cut my brother out of my life. I dont want to. I cling the advice I also get often: Just be there when he needs it.
He fights every day and has been sober before. I don't understand why family and friends should not recognize the efforts an addict does to stay sober.

But what are your thoughts on the "cut the addict out of your life" advice, when s/he is actually trying to stay sober?
Like in a case with the mother and 17 year old daughter, do you think it is a solution to kick them out of the house?

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.. Today is the seventh beautiful and sober day for my brother

LexieCat

Every situation is different. If the 17 y/o daughter was stealing, abusive, or otherwise making the home a living hell for her family, then kicking her out might be the right thing to do. It depends.

Now, so far as your brother is concerned, I strongly suggest you get to Al-Anon, and stick around here. Learn about "detachment," which is not the same as cutting someone out of your life. It just means taking care of what is YOURS to take care of, and letting HIM take care of what is HIS to take care of.

It's fine to "recognize the effort" an alcoholic or addict is making to recover. What ISN'T fine is hovering over them, "reminding" them of what they should be doing, doing for them what they need to be doing for themselves.

Some people need to cut off contact temporarily until they get strong enough to mind their own business and not allow the alcoholic to take over their lives.

I hope your brother stays sober. I hope you work on your own recovery from the effects of dealing with his drinking.

Recovering2

Agree with Lexie. There is a difference between cutting him out of your life, and getting out of the way. I, too, have an A brother. He is almost 50, and I was enmeshed in his life for all of his 20's and 30's. I was always trying to get him help, trying to get him sober, watching him like a hawk when he was sober, try to talk to him, etc etc etc. Kept my anxious and spinning. He would always relapse, and I would be angry/scared. He hated being around me, made him feel worse.

So I finally learned I had to step back. Did I cut him out of my life completely? No. But I did realize that I needed to step out of the disease part of the relationship, and leave him in the hands of his Higher Power. So I did "walk away" when he was drinking. I told him I loved him, but I could not be around him when he was drinking. That meant several years of not really talking with him, seeing him only at holiday family stuff. Never asking about what he was up to, not asking family either. It brought me peace in the end.

He is sober for the past year (not working a recovery program however), and we talk on occasion. He knows I love him. I keep a safe emotional distance for my own health.

Good luck to you.

dandylion

Dear Mila, can you say--how old are you and your brother? Does he live/work independently or live with family? This info might help those posting to you a bit.

sincerely, dandylion

MilaWhite

She wasn't stealing or anything.. If she was being violent it was different, of course

I used to really try and control him, always wanting to get involved with everything and I basically interrogated him at first.. But I learnt to just step back which was a huge relief for both of us.

I have tried al-anon. But it didn't really benefit me and I was told that I should accept some higher power, or else my brother would never get better. But I sometimes meet up with other relatives and friends of addicts. Then we can let out our frustrations and talk about how much we would like to take control, without actually doing it And ensure each other that it's for the best we dont start hovering and tell them what to do and not to do.

MilaWhite

It sounds very tough to keep such a distance. But if it has been going on through so many years I can see why it is necessary.

It makes me grateful that my brother doesn't have long periods of drinking anymore. He has more sober than drunk days, but sometimes his mood gets out of hand (bipolar) and that always leads to relapses.

I'm glad your brother has been sober for so long.. I hope my brother one day will reach it too If only his mood doesn't get in the way.

MilaWhite

I'm 24 and he is 31. He used to live with his wife until recently but divorced her and kicked her out of the house (with good reason.) He works alot and has a very demanding job, but is much less stressed after he started living on his own again

fourmaggie

detach with love by setting boundaries....

lillamy

I think detaching serves two purposes: it preserves my sanity and allows the addicts to experience the consequences of their choices. Basically, to me, detaching means I treat the addict as an adult human being who has the right and the responsibility to make decisions for his life himself.

Detachment doesn't equal cutting someone out of your life. It just means being clear on where your responsibility ends and the addict's begins.

How you set your boundaries is up to you. I've determined that I have an absolute right to live my life without the addicts i know infringing on it. My AXH, I have cut out of my life to the extent possible. Other addicts, I limit my interactions with: I don't go visit my aunt without having my own set of wheels and another place to stay, because I want to always have a way out if I show up at her house and she's drunk. I don't go out drinking with people. I don't keep alcohol in the house and never serve it at dinners. I don't give alcohol as gifts. I don't contribute to gifts of alcohol. I don't attend fundraisers where alcohol is served. None of the above has been taught to me - it's simply what works for me, in my situation. I don't NOT drink - but I can easily count the number of drinks I have each year on the fingers of one hand.

I don't pretend to have solutions for how to handle addicted children. I have however practiced detachment successfully with my teens who don't have addiction problems, and found that they tend to grow into your expectations of them - or, maybe, step up to the plate when they realize you're not going to make their decisions for them.

My friend whose son is in recovery detached enough that when he knocked on her door and said "if you don't help me get into rehab, I'll die", he KNEW beyond the shadow of a doubt that her response: "This is the last time I help you" was God's truth. He knew it was his last chance and he took it. Because up to that point, his mom had said exactly what she meant and done exactly what she said.

She had said "you can stay here for three months and that's how long you have to find your own place." He knew that in day 91 his stuff would be on the curb. No doubt. She said "if you use or drink in my house, you have forfeited your right to stay here." She came home to pot smell and put his stuff outside and changed the locks.

I'm rambling but there's a big difference between detaching and cutting someone out of your life. But I think detaching sounds so counter-intuitive that it's easy to misinterpret.

Spantoh

So well put Recovering2..

"There is a difference between cutting him out of your life, and getting out of the way."

Detachment can be difficult at first because there is such a want and for some of us a need to be part of the recovery and to "help" but as I have found, sometimes it can be less helpful than we think--especially for ourselves as family/bf/gf/etc.

Someone once told me, "Be her boyfriend (or in your case a sister)--do not be her parole officer, so to speak.

I am going through a very similar situation with my long time girlfriend and trying my best to practice this myself.
It can be somewhat difficult at first but I believe it may be what is healthiest for your brother and ultimately, yourself in the end.


Good luck, in a similar boat
S

skippernlilg

You've received some great information so far. The "leaving them alone thing" is all about your boundaries and not about them.

Justfor1

Kicking out a 17 year daughter is not the same as kicking out a drug addicted son who is 35 with years of addiction and multiple rehabs or prison admissions.

LexieCat

Just wanted to clarify on this point. Al-Anon doesn't tell anyone how to get the alcoholic sober. Basically, because there is nothing we can do to accomplish such a miracle.

I think you misunderstood what you heard. YOUR acceptance of a higher power won't get the alcoholic well. But one of the problems that we loved ones of alcoholics face is the belief that WE somehow have the power to get the alcoholic sober. We don't. Basically, Al-Anon principles tell us that a power greater than ourselves (think power of the Universe if you don't believe in "God"--or even the power of your Al-Anon group) can restore US to sanity. Because we all get rather crazy when we have a loved one who is an alcoholic. If we learn to let go of our attempts to control the alcoholic, his or her drinking, other people, anything that isn't our business, the Universe keeps turning and things tend to work out as they should. When we try to grab that control back, we get crazy again.

Al-Anon isn't a religious program, it's a spiritual one. It's about getting right-sized and keeping our own side of the street clean and allowing other people the dignity of living their own lives as they see fit. And in the process, it reduces our stress and anxiety, allowing us to live full and happy lives regardless of the actions of others around us.

Pretty cool.

wicked

Hello MilaWhite,

But, MilaWhite, that is what bipolar means, his moods change so much and so often they will always be in the way!

You love your brother and obviously want to help him.

This is what I suggest. Let me give you my experience first.

I am a recovering alcoholic (with a major depressive disorder, chronic, treatment resistant),
I am the adult child of an alcoholic,
I have two of my three children who are addicts, one is in recovery, the other is not.
The one child I have who is not addicted has a bi polar disorder.

First, find out everything you can about bi polar disorder. What type he has and what meds he is taking for it.

Second, find out everything you can about alcoholism and how it affects the loved ones of alcoholics.

Third and most importantly go to at least six AlAnon meetings.
I am asking you to go with an open mind, listen for the person who is telling your story, who is reaching your heart, who makes you tear up.
You will meet people there who will help you understand the difference between help and enabling.
The difference between "giving up" and detachment.

Last, but not least, make your life plan. Where do you see yourself in 5 years? 10 years?

After you have done all these things, work on yourself.
Are you married? have children?
Do you see how your brother and his mood swings and your determination to "be there" for him might interrupt your life?
Upset your spouse? Have your children wonder who is first for you? Them or their sick (but treatable) uncle?

When I read that you are 24 and he has been married and 31 years old, I was sad. Your life could be all about you. Only you.
That is not selfish, it is self-care.
Stand by your brother when he chooses healthy ways to deal with his bi polar disease, but step away from the addict.
For your own life. You deserve your own beautiful perfect life!

I hope for your serenity you will consider all this "advice" from one who has been there and truly wants you to live your full life.
I connected with an alcoholic early and stayed for as long as you are alive.
It is soul destroying. It sucks the life and light out of your eyes.

Please consider what I have said.

Beth

SolTraveler

I agree with the others - detachment is not the same as kicking someone out of your life. Now there ARE instances when behavior merit at least a temporary no contact period, but that depends on the situation.

thislonelygirl

I agree the situation depends but since alcoholism is a family disease usually it does impact the family and it is a good idea to take a step back. Sometimes taking a step back allows the addict to stop blaming their loved ones and start looking at themselves. Sometimes the enabling , giving them a place to stay food to eat warm body to lay next to and acceptance is good to take away.....sometimes they must struggle and lose things to win and gain back their life.
Pain and suffering in the instance of an addict is sometimes the best thing for them.
A child doesnt learn their bad behavior is bad because you tell them it is...sometimes they learn its unacceptable because you show them it is and if anything the clarity and seoeration from taking a step back is exactly what a loved one needs to feel sane again.
Congrats on your brothers sobreity.

Summerpeach

I came on here tonight to start almost the same thread topic.
In my case, the friend I need to detach from becomes abusive (name calling, blame shifting, accustations etc) when I try to be clear and kind when I tell her I can't be around her addictions and need to be away from it.
Then if I just ignore her, she becomes abusive as well, so it's a lose-lose

I too have no idea how to detach without all the drama she brings to my life.

I've been in Al Anon 4 years and been through two ugly break ups with addicts so this one should be easy right?

Not sure if detachment is right in my case! I'm lost

wicked

Summerpeach,

Maybe you should start your own thread.
This thread is about a family member, brother who is bi polar.

Your issue seems to be about detaching from an abusive friend.
although they are connected by addiction, everything else is different.
(to me)

How can you call someone a "friend" who is abusive, name calling and blame shifting?
Why wouldn't detachment or a full on no contact would not be the right answer in your case?

I do not understand I guess. At all. I am too new to Al Anon I guess.

Beth

Lily1918

I can relate. I personally don't believe that blood is any thicker than water. I have dear friends whom I view as sisters, but we are not "related"

"say what you mean without saying it mean"

umm... ok... here goes...
I think that sometimes family members hide behind blood and heritage as an excuse not to set boundaries. I myself have said "but she is my mother! what about honor your mother!?" oh but its just a friend? meh... I can make more friends. imho a person is a person. Family is all relative.

I have been struggling with the idea of being an emotional enabler. Sure. I don't provide any physical needs such as housing ciggs money etc. I live separate from the person, I choose to ignore phone calls and texts... most of the time.

Is it enabling to still talk to them when they are not in recovery? I just don't know.

Summerpeach

It doesn't matter if it's a friend/partner/child?! Is the pain not the same? To me it is. I don't get your judgement here?
In recovery, we try not to judge others, which you have done here with me