A question about enabling
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 70
A question about enabling
Query: ex(?)R(?)ABF is fresh out of his umpteenth round of in patient rehab. We don't live together, he's with his parents.
I refuse to do stuff for him - e.g. Pay bills/remind him to do so, cook, do his laundry, clean his room, do the shopping, allow him to live rent free, etc. I figure that he's 29 and should be able to do that himself.
His mum, however, does all of the above. Is this enabling? He's not working, so I think that he should be able to manage most of the above himself. And if he can't, at least try and ask for help if he gets stuck - I have no problem with that, and am happy to 'teach' him how to do the above. I think they're normal 'adult' things that everyone needs to take responsibility for.
I'm worried that I'm being cold hearted and cruel. But I don't know, sometimes I think being with someone who has this disease has made me crazy and I can't think straight, so I'm seeking the advice of my dear SR friends who always tell it like it is...
I refuse to do stuff for him - e.g. Pay bills/remind him to do so, cook, do his laundry, clean his room, do the shopping, allow him to live rent free, etc. I figure that he's 29 and should be able to do that himself.
His mum, however, does all of the above. Is this enabling? He's not working, so I think that he should be able to manage most of the above himself. And if he can't, at least try and ask for help if he gets stuck - I have no problem with that, and am happy to 'teach' him how to do the above. I think they're normal 'adult' things that everyone needs to take responsibility for.
I'm worried that I'm being cold hearted and cruel. But I don't know, sometimes I think being with someone who has this disease has made me crazy and I can't think straight, so I'm seeking the advice of my dear SR friends who always tell it like it is...
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Enabling is putting it nicely. His mother is still mothering him at the age of 29. You are not being cruel for not wanting to co-parent an adult male.
Yes, I agree with you that a relationship with an alcoholic leaves you confused and self-doubting.
You are ok!
Yes, I agree with you that a relationship with an alcoholic leaves you confused and self-doubting.
You are ok!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 566
Yes, enabling. And we are powerless over those sorts of things, unless we are the ones who are enabling and are working to stop doing it.
I think being confused and self-doubting were some of the most painful aspects of being with an alcoholic for me. It just feels awful. I wonder if there are people in your life who don't encourage you to feel that way, who you could spend more time with?
Hugs,
posie
I think being confused and self-doubting were some of the most painful aspects of being with an alcoholic for me. It just feels awful. I wonder if there are people in your life who don't encourage you to feel that way, who you could spend more time with?
Hugs,
posie
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: London
Posts: 3
Yes, she is enabling and you have a healthy attitude. They need to take care of their own responsibilities - it also gives them a sense of purpose. I leave my AH to do all his responsibilties and the ones we share. If he messes up, he will have to put things straight again. Sometimes a bit frustrating and expensive when it comes to DIY but then he has to pay for the emergency plumber. As you said, I am prepared to 'teach' or 'show' him certain things but I will not cover for him or take them on board. I have already more than enough on my plate and expect from him to cooperate. On the other hand, at the beginning of discovering his problem, he always argued that he fullfills all his responsiblities, i.e. he functions, so he has not got a problem. Luckily we have moved on since ...
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 70
Thanks all. Nice to know that I'm not on the crazy wagon with this one.
As for me - yes, the self-doubt is pretty bad at the moment. I'm currently doing 4 AlAnon meetings per week so at least I'm getting across the issues far better than I was. His mum doesn't do any meetings - could be a reasonable explanation as to why she continues to enable.
Like the alcoholism, the enabling is something I didn't cause, can't control and can't cure! So I'm not even going to get involved or offer my opinion. Not worth the argument or losing my precious serenity over. I've worked out that it takes me ages to get my serenity together but only a few seconds to lose it - and I'm not about to!
As for me - yes, the self-doubt is pretty bad at the moment. I'm currently doing 4 AlAnon meetings per week so at least I'm getting across the issues far better than I was. His mum doesn't do any meetings - could be a reasonable explanation as to why she continues to enable.
Like the alcoholism, the enabling is something I didn't cause, can't control and can't cure! So I'm not even going to get involved or offer my opinion. Not worth the argument or losing my precious serenity over. I've worked out that it takes me ages to get my serenity together but only a few seconds to lose it - and I'm not about to!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
not because of the laundry
Originally Posted by kasie 
I refuse to do stuff for him - e.g. Pay bills/remind him to do so, cook, do his laundry, clean his room, do the shopping, allow him to live rent free, etc. I figure that he's 29 and should be able to do that himself.
His mum, however, does all of the above. Is this enabling?
yes she is enabling him
when I was around his same age (but working a steady job)
I was drinking and using pretty heavy
I was also dropping off my laundry at my mommy's house to be washed
she called AA Central regarding me and my problems
they told her to stop doing laundry for the grown man
she did stop
I was so mad at AA Central
today I know they gave her the right advice
wasn't too long after that I hit a bottom
no not because of the laundry I had to do
everything had caught up with me -- including my own laundry !!!
when I was around his same age (but working a steady job)
I was drinking and using pretty heavy
I was also dropping off my laundry at my mommy's house to be washed
she called AA Central regarding me and my problems
they told her to stop doing laundry for the grown man
she did stop
I was so mad at AA Central
today I know they gave her the right advice
wasn't too long after that I hit a bottom
no not because of the laundry I had to do
everything had caught up with me -- including my own laundry !!!
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Hi, kasie. I just want to add a comment to what the other posters have said. I heartily agree with all of them, by the way!
I know from personal experience that in some areas of this country there is still a very strong expectation that women, in marriage are expected to carry out many of the functions that the mother performed. Doing the laundry,cooking the meals, all the housework, attending to the health and medical issues (home nursing), attending to the children---these are considered the exclusive arena of the woman in a man's life. His responsibility is to go out to work and bring home the money (plus any male chores). The male chores, typically, include--repairs of the physical dwelling, outside heavy work, and care of heavy equipment or vehicles.
I was born into such a culture---but, was able to extract myself from that thinking---that is another long story (LOL). However, I am happy to talk about it in detail if there is anyone who is interested (LOL).
Kasie, yes, his m other is enabling him to an extreme degree--but, he is also expecting and enjoying it. It takes two.
I salute your progress!
sincerely, dandylion
I know from personal experience that in some areas of this country there is still a very strong expectation that women, in marriage are expected to carry out many of the functions that the mother performed. Doing the laundry,cooking the meals, all the housework, attending to the health and medical issues (home nursing), attending to the children---these are considered the exclusive arena of the woman in a man's life. His responsibility is to go out to work and bring home the money (plus any male chores). The male chores, typically, include--repairs of the physical dwelling, outside heavy work, and care of heavy equipment or vehicles.
I was born into such a culture---but, was able to extract myself from that thinking---that is another long story (LOL). However, I am happy to talk about it in detail if there is anyone who is interested (LOL).
Kasie, yes, his m other is enabling him to an extreme degree--but, he is also expecting and enjoying it. It takes two.
I salute your progress!
sincerely, dandylion
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
ummm yes.
Works that way on both sides.
Mrs. Hammer is our resident A. Back from Rehab about 5 months, now. Was pissed at some of her crap lately, and then figured again -- it really is a miracle that she is not relapsing, and I am not being grateful for that, and instead pissed about all the rest. Silly me, huh?
So Praise God. One Day at a Time, huh?
Back to this Dependent stuff. Yes. We have all crap around here via the MIL -- Mrs. Hammer's Mom. Sweet lady . . . but totally NUTZSO Co-Dep. Since I no longer play along, she rants at me how "I Hate Your (my) Alanon!" That let's me know I am doing pretty well, thank you.
Sorry drifting again. Back on this. Yes -- Dependent Behavior. Upon picking up Mrs. Hammer from the airport the first night back from rehab, I heard no less than 5 times how the rehab people told Mrs. Hammer that I (me! Hammer!) was/is "her dad." Figured yeah FU, Bytches, too. But then I pondered it a little and since we had spent well into 5 figures on all, maybe I should learn something.
Looked up the condition -- on the Dependent Female side it goes like this (very harsh, but just follow the theme) Hostile Dependency: Is your Wife, Girlfriend or Ex a Child Masquerading in the Body of a Woman? | Shrink4Men
Yeah, like I say -- that is WAAYYY harsh, but the idea works Male or Female. Sound like what you are dealing with?
Works that way on both sides.
Mrs. Hammer is our resident A. Back from Rehab about 5 months, now. Was pissed at some of her crap lately, and then figured again -- it really is a miracle that she is not relapsing, and I am not being grateful for that, and instead pissed about all the rest. Silly me, huh?
So Praise God. One Day at a Time, huh?
Back to this Dependent stuff. Yes. We have all crap around here via the MIL -- Mrs. Hammer's Mom. Sweet lady . . . but totally NUTZSO Co-Dep. Since I no longer play along, she rants at me how "I Hate Your (my) Alanon!" That let's me know I am doing pretty well, thank you.
Sorry drifting again. Back on this. Yes -- Dependent Behavior. Upon picking up Mrs. Hammer from the airport the first night back from rehab, I heard no less than 5 times how the rehab people told Mrs. Hammer that I (me! Hammer!) was/is "her dad." Figured yeah FU, Bytches, too. But then I pondered it a little and since we had spent well into 5 figures on all, maybe I should learn something.
Looked up the condition -- on the Dependent Female side it goes like this (very harsh, but just follow the theme) Hostile Dependency: Is your Wife, Girlfriend or Ex a Child Masquerading in the Body of a Woman? | Shrink4Men
Yeah, like I say -- that is WAAYYY harsh, but the idea works Male or Female. Sound like what you are dealing with?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 70
Thanks everyone!
Dandylion - I totally understand about the cultural male/female roles thing. But - given that he's not working and I'm far more DIY savvy than he is (not to mention the fact that I know how to use the internet to search for a plumber if I need to), I don't think he's filling any role - whether traditionally male or female - adequately.
Onehigherpower - if only his mum had the sense to research alcoholism, go to Alanon and learn about her role in the family disease. If only. Denial is rife, I can smell it from ten feet away - just like how, over time, you can smell what they've been drinking (off topic, but vodka does have a smell. I know, as do most others here at the F&F forum).
Hammer - our own progress annoys people, doesn't it? I've come to realise that the more progress I make on myself (mainly through AlAnon), the less alcoholics and their enablers like me. Back in the heights of my codependency (and I'm still really working on that) I'd hate it if other people didn't like me. Now I know that if alcoholics and their enablers don't like me it means I'm getting better - and I'm threatening their patterns of abuse and denial, because I can't be manipulated or controlled anymore! Yippee!
Dandylion - I totally understand about the cultural male/female roles thing. But - given that he's not working and I'm far more DIY savvy than he is (not to mention the fact that I know how to use the internet to search for a plumber if I need to), I don't think he's filling any role - whether traditionally male or female - adequately.
Onehigherpower - if only his mum had the sense to research alcoholism, go to Alanon and learn about her role in the family disease. If only. Denial is rife, I can smell it from ten feet away - just like how, over time, you can smell what they've been drinking (off topic, but vodka does have a smell. I know, as do most others here at the F&F forum).
Hammer - our own progress annoys people, doesn't it? I've come to realise that the more progress I make on myself (mainly through AlAnon), the less alcoholics and their enablers like me. Back in the heights of my codependency (and I'm still really working on that) I'd hate it if other people didn't like me. Now I know that if alcoholics and their enablers don't like me it means I'm getting better - and I'm threatening their patterns of abuse and denial, because I can't be manipulated or controlled anymore! Yippee!
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Originally Posted by kasie
Hammer - our own progress annoys people, doesn't it? I've come to realise that the more progress I make on myself (mainly through AlAnon), the less alcoholics and their enablers like me. Back in the heights of my codependency (and I'm still really working on that) I'd hate it if other people didn't like me. Now I know that if alcoholics and their enablers don't like me it means I'm getting better - and I'm threatening their patterns of abuse and denial, because I can't be manipulated or controlled anymore! Yippee!
Make that Good For Us!
My other Badge of Honor -- I have now been dubbed as "useless" by Mrs. Hammer and her sponsor (both chronic users) on the manipulation games.
So when the "Users" have decided you are "Useless," you are probably in a pretty good place.
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 118
I have been sober for 35 years and have dealt with a mother who enables my brother who has been sober for short periods and then travels the road of active alcoholism complete with the court cases, being on the take as a cop, stealing my identity to name a few things. There was an intervention about a year ago which I attended and he now does not speak with me. My mother refuses to come to my house, but travels to his with the holes in the walls and in his couch. She has called me by my father's name since he died 32 years ago.
Her birthday was Mother's day and the whole family was invited to his house and I was excluded I told my mother that hurt she then told me that my feelings were wrong.
My older brother died from alcoholism as did my father.
Ya know after years in alanon and AA. She cannot hurt me in the same manner where I used to second guess myself. Whatever pain I may feel is truly about missing my mother's birthday and not tied in the behavioral aspect of the enabling and peculiar relationship between my mother and brother.
Her birthday was Mother's day and the whole family was invited to his house and I was excluded I told my mother that hurt she then told me that my feelings were wrong.
My older brother died from alcoholism as did my father.
Ya know after years in alanon and AA. She cannot hurt me in the same manner where I used to second guess myself. Whatever pain I may feel is truly about missing my mother's birthday and not tied in the behavioral aspect of the enabling and peculiar relationship between my mother and brother.
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
I am sorry Slag.
Your family all seem to be ill.
I love Mother's Day wishes.
But, if I do not get them (and there have been those times) I take care of myself.
I buy flowers and cake.
Then go to a meeting.
Beth
Your family all seem to be ill.
I love Mother's Day wishes.
But, if I do not get them (and there have been those times) I take care of myself.
I buy flowers and cake.
Then go to a meeting.
Beth
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