When to Confront?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 267
When to Confront?
I am having a big issue with this lately. My ABF and I had an agreement that he would only go next door to the bar twice a week after work. For a year, that worked well (well, as well as trying to control a drinking problem does, anyway). Before anyone says anything, I knew that it would not last so I am not terribly surprised that he is slipping.
In the past two weeks, he has gone three times, each time claiming exceptional circumstances - he had to go over with his boss (also a raging alcoholic) to discuss a work matter, etc. I told him that this has to stop. He can call his boss when he gets home, and the agreement is twice a week. He does not need to be out spending money/wrecking his liver more than that.
So anyway, yesterday I was checking our phone minutes because it was near the end of the month - making sure we are on track. I noticed that, although he was still supposedly at work, that he made a call to his dad 20 minutes ago. He is not allowed to be on the phone while he is on the clock. As soon as I noticed that, he called for a ride.
Now, it is possible that he decided to return his dad's call and then call me, but given what we argued about just two weeks ago, I suspect that he was at the bar for at least 30 minutes. I can't prove it though, and if I confront him I know he will claim he is shooting the breeze with co-workers when he got off and he called me shortly after. All of that will technically be true - sneaky, sneaky.
So the question is, do I confront him? My thoughts are to wait and see what is up. Let him slip some more and get evidence - lots of it. Otherwise he will just deny it.
Even then, is confronting him going to do any good? It won't change anything on his end - as one of the three Cs says. And I am going to be honest and say that unless I have hard proof that this is going on habitually that I am not ready to throw him out yet.
What do you think.
In the past two weeks, he has gone three times, each time claiming exceptional circumstances - he had to go over with his boss (also a raging alcoholic) to discuss a work matter, etc. I told him that this has to stop. He can call his boss when he gets home, and the agreement is twice a week. He does not need to be out spending money/wrecking his liver more than that.
So anyway, yesterday I was checking our phone minutes because it was near the end of the month - making sure we are on track. I noticed that, although he was still supposedly at work, that he made a call to his dad 20 minutes ago. He is not allowed to be on the phone while he is on the clock. As soon as I noticed that, he called for a ride.
Now, it is possible that he decided to return his dad's call and then call me, but given what we argued about just two weeks ago, I suspect that he was at the bar for at least 30 minutes. I can't prove it though, and if I confront him I know he will claim he is shooting the breeze with co-workers when he got off and he called me shortly after. All of that will technically be true - sneaky, sneaky.
So the question is, do I confront him? My thoughts are to wait and see what is up. Let him slip some more and get evidence - lots of it. Otherwise he will just deny it.
Even then, is confronting him going to do any good? It won't change anything on his end - as one of the three Cs says. And I am going to be honest and say that unless I have hard proof that this is going on habitually that I am not ready to throw him out yet.
What do you think.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,870
An alcoholic cannot keep deals when it comes to drinking. If he wants to drink, he is going to drink and this is something you will have to accept. Confronting him won't change anything, as you said. It will just let him know how you feel about it, and he already knows that.
You know what you know. You just need to decide what to do about it.
You know what you know. You just need to decide what to do about it.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I think you are gonna make yourself nuts trying to figure out what he is doing every minute of the day.
You already know he isn't likely to stick with the agreement. Confronting him with "proof" is only going to make him defensive, and he will be accusing you of acting like his keeper (which, to be fair, is sort of how you are acting).
And anyway, assuming you DO have "hard proof" that he is not following the "agreement"--are you saying you would THEN be ready to kick him out? It doesn't sound like it.
With all due respect (and trust me, I've been in your shoes, and I know how upsetting and confusing it can be to watch someone you love skating onto that thin ice), you ARE trying to control him. Put the boundaries around what YOU are willing to tolerate. It sounds as if you aren't so much upset that he isn't home as you are WHERE he is and WHAT he is doing. What he does in his time off from work is his business. When it DOES affect you directly, you can act accordingly. If it bothers you to sleep with him when he smells like booze, don't. If he comes home drunk and tries to start an argument, don't engage.
I'm sorry, but micromanaging his drinking is only going to be an exercise in frustration and futility. Are you doing Al-Anon? Or getting any other kind of face-to-face support? Going to meetings, or finding other activities to engage you in your own life will be much better for you in the long run than managing his life.
You already know he isn't likely to stick with the agreement. Confronting him with "proof" is only going to make him defensive, and he will be accusing you of acting like his keeper (which, to be fair, is sort of how you are acting).
And anyway, assuming you DO have "hard proof" that he is not following the "agreement"--are you saying you would THEN be ready to kick him out? It doesn't sound like it.
With all due respect (and trust me, I've been in your shoes, and I know how upsetting and confusing it can be to watch someone you love skating onto that thin ice), you ARE trying to control him. Put the boundaries around what YOU are willing to tolerate. It sounds as if you aren't so much upset that he isn't home as you are WHERE he is and WHAT he is doing. What he does in his time off from work is his business. When it DOES affect you directly, you can act accordingly. If it bothers you to sleep with him when he smells like booze, don't. If he comes home drunk and tries to start an argument, don't engage.
I'm sorry, but micromanaging his drinking is only going to be an exercise in frustration and futility. Are you doing Al-Anon? Or getting any other kind of face-to-face support? Going to meetings, or finding other activities to engage you in your own life will be much better for you in the long run than managing his life.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: England, UK
Posts: 257
If you aren't sure and cannot be 100% sure in your position when you talk to him, then I say wait and "more will be revealed".
From personal experience I have found that whether ABF is or isn't drinking when he tells me he's not (or is or isn't doing anything else for that matter), the fact that I feel I can't believe what he says is actually the crux of the problem, not whether he is drinking. If you can't trust this man, do you want to share your life with him?
From personal experience I have found that whether ABF is or isn't drinking when he tells me he's not (or is or isn't doing anything else for that matter), the fact that I feel I can't believe what he says is actually the crux of the problem, not whether he is drinking. If you can't trust this man, do you want to share your life with him?
Last edited by Wavy; 05-16-2013 at 05:45 AM. Reason: typo
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
I think several things are going on here, kind of like a mesh of control, lack of boundaries and expectations.
Agreeing that he could go drink a few times a week is like you trying to control how often he’s allowed to drink.
As pointed out alcoholics can’t stick to deals/agreements or even contracts.
Boundaries – when you made this agreement what was YOUR boundary you made to yourself that you would do if he didn’t follow this agreement?
Expectations – thinking that by controlling his drinking to 2 days a week you could deal with it better.
So if you were to confront him with what ever evidence you think you have, what are you then EXPECTING the outcome to be?
Agreeing that he could go drink a few times a week is like you trying to control how often he’s allowed to drink.
As pointed out alcoholics can’t stick to deals/agreements or even contracts.
Boundaries – when you made this agreement what was YOUR boundary you made to yourself that you would do if he didn’t follow this agreement?
Expectations – thinking that by controlling his drinking to 2 days a week you could deal with it better.
So if you were to confront him with what ever evidence you think you have, what are you then EXPECTING the outcome to be?
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,295
I use to monitor my SO. He used to monitor me too. Monitoring people is crazy, and creepy.
He's a grown man. You're not his mommy.
Harsh? yes, for a good reason.
Life will continue to teach us over and over and over and over and over...(you get the picture) again that we don't control others, and will teach us that painfully, and more pain, and more pain, and more pain, and more frustration, and more frustration, and more frustration...until WE GET IT.
What I just said was for you. To help you with your pain and frustration. To help you with that little monster inside you that says --I need to monitor and control. I've been there, done that, got the scars, and wasted the years.
It was a bogus agreement to begin with. He agreed to pacify you. You were trying to exercise control over a grown man. He's naturally going to be sneaky about it, lie, break the rule, because it isn't his rule--it's yours. And he's teaching you that oh so painful lesson. He's a free man! If you don't like his habits, you can ask he change them, you can discuss it, and you can then watch him exercise his free control over himself...because that is what he is going to do anyway.
He's a grown man. You're not his mommy.
Harsh? yes, for a good reason.
Life will continue to teach us over and over and over and over and over...(you get the picture) again that we don't control others, and will teach us that painfully, and more pain, and more pain, and more pain, and more frustration, and more frustration, and more frustration...until WE GET IT.
What I just said was for you. To help you with your pain and frustration. To help you with that little monster inside you that says --I need to monitor and control. I've been there, done that, got the scars, and wasted the years.
It was a bogus agreement to begin with. He agreed to pacify you. You were trying to exercise control over a grown man. He's naturally going to be sneaky about it, lie, break the rule, because it isn't his rule--it's yours. And he's teaching you that oh so painful lesson. He's a free man! If you don't like his habits, you can ask he change them, you can discuss it, and you can then watch him exercise his free control over himself...because that is what he is going to do anyway.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,163
I do not believe you will get the results you are looking for in confronting him. You already know the truth. You get to decide how you want to live your life. Nothing is going to change until he makes the choice to seek recovery.
Seems to me, you are only setting yourself up for more lies and disappointment. All the time you are spending following up on his actions, could be spent on YOU.
You are currently living in the lather, rinse, repeat, cycle.
I drove myself crazy trying to figure out what the A was doing. Someone here, pointed out to me, that he was just doing what an addict does......... they may have different names and faces, but their actions are the SAME.
Sending you tons of support.
Seems to me, you are only setting yourself up for more lies and disappointment. All the time you are spending following up on his actions, could be spent on YOU.
You are currently living in the lather, rinse, repeat, cycle.
I drove myself crazy trying to figure out what the A was doing. Someone here, pointed out to me, that he was just doing what an addict does......... they may have different names and faces, but their actions are the SAME.
Sending you tons of support.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 267
Thanks so much for the input. I needed to hear it.
I know confronting him will do nothing except give him an excuse (in his mind) to do it more and blame me. Maybe I am self-sabotaging. THAT has occurred to me.
I DO have a big issue with control. It is part of my issue with extreme anxiety (now made 1000% worse by the fact that I am pregnant and can't take my meds) and my codie issues. I am working hard on them, but it is definitely a process.
I do go to f2f al-anon meetings but not as often as I need to. I plan to chance that next week when my son is back in daycare. I need it, as you can see.
I know confronting him will do nothing except give him an excuse (in his mind) to do it more and blame me. Maybe I am self-sabotaging. THAT has occurred to me.
I DO have a big issue with control. It is part of my issue with extreme anxiety (now made 1000% worse by the fact that I am pregnant and can't take my meds) and my codie issues. I am working hard on them, but it is definitely a process.
I do go to f2f al-anon meetings but not as often as I need to. I plan to chance that next week when my son is back in daycare. I need it, as you can see.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 654
When you think of a healthy relationship, what qualities come to mind? I ask you that because sometimes we start to put up with so much that we forget what we once expected out of a relationship and we become too enmeshed in the situation to realize it was time to step away a long time ago.
You say you won't leave unless you have hard proof, but I want you to take a look at that statement. Can you be with someone that you trust so little that you are contemplating whether to gather up evidence of his lies before confronting him so that he can't lie his way out of it? Do you want to be with someone that you know will deny something until he is blue in the face and is willing to lie to you and in order to avoid that you need to make sure you have tons of evidence that he did in fact do something?
Also, you say there is an agreement that he will only go to the bar twice a week. Who made this agreement? It sounds like he has decided that agreement is no longer working for him and that he wants to go to the bar more than twice a week. This is not really surprising since someone with a drinking problem is not able to moderate their drinking. Chances are he has been drinking a lot more than 2 times a week but he has just been hiding it better.
A question to consider is if this is as good as it gets will you be able to be happy in this relationship? Alcoholism is a progressive disease and unless he seeks help this will most likely be the best it ever gets. Can you be happy in a relationship with someone you don't trust, someone who lies, and someone who if you want to ask them about something or confront them you need to compile evidence so they are unable to deny/lie to your face when you ask them about it?
It comes down to what you are willing to put up with and what you need to make you happy. What do you want out of a relationship and are you getting that from this relationship? If the answer is no, then you need to come to terms with the fact that you might never get those things from him. We cannot change someone else and no matter how much evidence we gather about their lies and no matter how many agreements we make with them they will still do whatever they want to do and it will continue. Sometimes it helps to look at the situation and imagine that your best friend came to you asking you want to do. What would you tell her?
You say you won't leave unless you have hard proof, but I want you to take a look at that statement. Can you be with someone that you trust so little that you are contemplating whether to gather up evidence of his lies before confronting him so that he can't lie his way out of it? Do you want to be with someone that you know will deny something until he is blue in the face and is willing to lie to you and in order to avoid that you need to make sure you have tons of evidence that he did in fact do something?
Also, you say there is an agreement that he will only go to the bar twice a week. Who made this agreement? It sounds like he has decided that agreement is no longer working for him and that he wants to go to the bar more than twice a week. This is not really surprising since someone with a drinking problem is not able to moderate their drinking. Chances are he has been drinking a lot more than 2 times a week but he has just been hiding it better.
A question to consider is if this is as good as it gets will you be able to be happy in this relationship? Alcoholism is a progressive disease and unless he seeks help this will most likely be the best it ever gets. Can you be happy in a relationship with someone you don't trust, someone who lies, and someone who if you want to ask them about something or confront them you need to compile evidence so they are unable to deny/lie to your face when you ask them about it?
It comes down to what you are willing to put up with and what you need to make you happy. What do you want out of a relationship and are you getting that from this relationship? If the answer is no, then you need to come to terms with the fact that you might never get those things from him. We cannot change someone else and no matter how much evidence we gather about their lies and no matter how many agreements we make with them they will still do whatever they want to do and it will continue. Sometimes it helps to look at the situation and imagine that your best friend came to you asking you want to do. What would you tell her?
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 864
The fence, I could sit square in the middle hung over, bitching how dare he use…
So much control … It is ok for him to drink, if he does it your way? Actually he can drink if he wants to … end of story, that simple. Think about it. Rationally you know there is no such thing as controlled drinking. Rationally you know that he is the only one who controls if he uses or doesn’t. Rationally you understand that he is the only one who can save himself.
Will confronting him change anything? Will it help anything? In looking at yourself, can you see that there is no way to really know when and if he is drinking? Does it even matter, really he is an alcoholic right? It is that simple, no evidence is needed, you already know what he is, he is just playing the game you designed. I am curious as to why, if it he can just drink 2 times a week and it is such an issue then why not just stop and be done with it, really seems like to much work for anyone in active addiction.
This is a dangerous playground to play in. And you know he provides one hell of an open door back into hell as close as you are to the problem. You have to keep it about you, keep strong boundaries, say what you mean and mean what you say … follow through on what is best for you, gives you the best chance. Keep your program going minute to minute when you know you need to step way back because if you don’t you will be setting yourself to become just as sick in a codie sense and that can bring you back full circle to the bottle.
So much control … It is ok for him to drink, if he does it your way? Actually he can drink if he wants to … end of story, that simple. Think about it. Rationally you know there is no such thing as controlled drinking. Rationally you know that he is the only one who controls if he uses or doesn’t. Rationally you understand that he is the only one who can save himself.
Will confronting him change anything? Will it help anything? In looking at yourself, can you see that there is no way to really know when and if he is drinking? Does it even matter, really he is an alcoholic right? It is that simple, no evidence is needed, you already know what he is, he is just playing the game you designed. I am curious as to why, if it he can just drink 2 times a week and it is such an issue then why not just stop and be done with it, really seems like to much work for anyone in active addiction.
This is a dangerous playground to play in. And you know he provides one hell of an open door back into hell as close as you are to the problem. You have to keep it about you, keep strong boundaries, say what you mean and mean what you say … follow through on what is best for you, gives you the best chance. Keep your program going minute to minute when you know you need to step way back because if you don’t you will be setting yourself to become just as sick in a codie sense and that can bring you back full circle to the bottle.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
Get through the pregnancy. Consider seeing someone professionally that works with pregnant women. They can help give you a space to find peace and guidance and help you monitor your moods while pregnant.
I came to SR when pregnant with DD2 right after finding out my AH was an alcoholic and this is something that helped me get through it with some happiness.
I came to SR when pregnant with DD2 right after finding out my AH was an alcoholic and this is something that helped me get through it with some happiness.
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,218
Hi, Sol-
You know, I'm one who needs to stop confronting because ultimately it gets me nowhere. I feel compelled to "let him know that I know what's up", but you know what? He just tries to BS his way out of it, and really, he's not going to admit anything. If he does, then I'm "nosy" and "need to mind my own business" etc.
If you want to avoid yet another confrontation that leaves you feeling like $#!t, then I would try not to say anything.
He won't limit or stop his drinking because you want him to. I understand that now. Believe you me, I understand COMPLETELY wanting to confront him. OH MAN, do I understand.
Just decide if you want a fight and a load of bull thrown your way, or to avoid that and feel silently angry and resentful. Lovely choice they leave us with, isn't it? I myself am trying so hard to lower my expectations...this way, it doesn't hurt so bad. Know what I mean? Sad that it comes to that, but he isn't reasonable, so you have to try hard to keep your sanity - believe me, I say that gently and with loving kindness, not judgement. Not at all. I understand the "crazymaking" stunts they pull. It sucks.
I'm sorry I can't give you the satisfaction or results you want honey. I wish I could make it better. Lots of hugs to you. Spoil yourself today. You deserve it. Substitute confronting him with doing something lovely for YOU.
Peace.
You know, I'm one who needs to stop confronting because ultimately it gets me nowhere. I feel compelled to "let him know that I know what's up", but you know what? He just tries to BS his way out of it, and really, he's not going to admit anything. If he does, then I'm "nosy" and "need to mind my own business" etc.
If you want to avoid yet another confrontation that leaves you feeling like $#!t, then I would try not to say anything.
He won't limit or stop his drinking because you want him to. I understand that now. Believe you me, I understand COMPLETELY wanting to confront him. OH MAN, do I understand.
Just decide if you want a fight and a load of bull thrown your way, or to avoid that and feel silently angry and resentful. Lovely choice they leave us with, isn't it? I myself am trying so hard to lower my expectations...this way, it doesn't hurt so bad. Know what I mean? Sad that it comes to that, but he isn't reasonable, so you have to try hard to keep your sanity - believe me, I say that gently and with loving kindness, not judgement. Not at all. I understand the "crazymaking" stunts they pull. It sucks.
I'm sorry I can't give you the satisfaction or results you want honey. I wish I could make it better. Lots of hugs to you. Spoil yourself today. You deserve it. Substitute confronting him with doing something lovely for YOU.
Peace.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 267
Originally Posted by OnawaMiniya 
Hi, Sol-
You know, I'm one who needs to stop confronting because ultimately it gets me nowhere. I feel compelled to "let him know that I know what's up", but you know what? He just tries to BS his way out of it, and really, he's not going to admit anything. If he does, then I'm "nosy" and "need to mind my own business" etc.
Just decide if you want a fight and a load of bull thrown your way, or to avoid that and feel silently angry and resentful. Lovely choice they leave us with, isn't it?
You know, I'm one who needs to stop confronting because ultimately it gets me nowhere. I feel compelled to "let him know that I know what's up", but you know what? He just tries to BS his way out of it, and really, he's not going to admit anything. If he does, then I'm "nosy" and "need to mind my own business" etc.
Just decide if you want a fight and a load of bull thrown your way, or to avoid that and feel silently angry and resentful. Lovely choice they leave us with, isn't it?
I wish I didn't have this crappy anxiety and codie problem. I KNOW that I have the strength to do what I need to do when I am ready. I left my ex husband because of his addiction to pain pills. It was a difficult decision but when it came down to it, I did what needed to be done.
I can deal with the outcome, whatever it is. I just have to work through it until I can get back on my meds and start going to Al-Anon meetings more regularly.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,407
Get through your pregnancy, and detach from your husband's behavior. Stop monitoring his drinking. Stop telling him what he can and can't do...he's not listening anyhow. Focus on your own serenity, and leave him to his path. If you can't get to a meeting, do some reading. "CoDependent No More" and "The Language of Letting Go" by Melody Beattie. "Courage to Change" by AlAnon. Keep posting here.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
My first thought at seeing the title on the list of threads is "NEVER!"
Why? Because its pointless and only causes you great stress.
He knows all this stuff already. But the compulsion is overwhelming his good judgment. Take care of yourself and let him figure this out on his own.
Why? Because its pointless and only causes you great stress.
He knows all this stuff already. But the compulsion is overwhelming his good judgment. Take care of yourself and let him figure this out on his own.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,349
Just wanted to come on and chime in here that I, too, had to choose to NOT confront. It is a waste of time, breath, energy, etc and only hurt feelings and more pain come from it. I know so many things that my AH has done: drunk driving, riding his bike drunk and cutting his head open, lying to the state about the violations on his car's breathalyzer, etc. I know the truths, he didn't tell me. Some of them are obvious truths, and some of them get revealed to me by the governing authorities or even neighbors.
I have lowered my expectations. I have come to expect him to lie and cover up his bad behavior. It is what it is, why expect anything different? I am doing my best to find my own serenity and peace regardless of what he chooses to do. For today, he is trying his own one man recovery. I don't have a crystal ball so I can't say how long this will last. I always remain cautiously optimistic because that's my nature yet I've learned to never hitch MY star to someone else's. I need to take care of my and my son, period. My AH luckily has managed to keep his job so I focus on making sure my son is healthy emotionally and I make sure he's getting the schooling and the outlets he needs to grow up and become an adult. I go to Al Anon meetings, work with my sponsor, and I see a therapist weekly. I run with my dog, I take a bath every so often just for relaxation for ME.
So, I encourage you to read all the advice you've received here, it was truly heartfelt and honest. And, then I encourage you to find your own serenity for you and the baby and to focus on just that. Hugs to you today!
I have lowered my expectations. I have come to expect him to lie and cover up his bad behavior. It is what it is, why expect anything different? I am doing my best to find my own serenity and peace regardless of what he chooses to do. For today, he is trying his own one man recovery. I don't have a crystal ball so I can't say how long this will last. I always remain cautiously optimistic because that's my nature yet I've learned to never hitch MY star to someone else's. I need to take care of my and my son, period. My AH luckily has managed to keep his job so I focus on making sure my son is healthy emotionally and I make sure he's getting the schooling and the outlets he needs to grow up and become an adult. I go to Al Anon meetings, work with my sponsor, and I see a therapist weekly. I run with my dog, I take a bath every so often just for relaxation for ME.
So, I encourage you to read all the advice you've received here, it was truly heartfelt and honest. And, then I encourage you to find your own serenity for you and the baby and to focus on just that. Hugs to you today!
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,218
Originally Posted by SolTraveler
Yep - that has become my life. And I am so tired of it. As Florence noted, I am just going to try to concentrate on me and get through the pregnancy with my sanity, if possible.
I wish I didn't have this crappy anxiety and codie problem. I KNOW that I have the strength to do what I need to do when I am ready. I left my ex husband because of his addiction to pain pills. It was a difficult decision but when it came down to it, I did what needed to be done.
I can deal with the outcome, whatever it is. I just have to work through it until I can get back on my meds and start going to Al-Anon meetings more regularly.
I wish I didn't have this crappy anxiety and codie problem. I KNOW that I have the strength to do what I need to do when I am ready. I left my ex husband because of his addiction to pain pills. It was a difficult decision but when it came down to it, I did what needed to be done.
I can deal with the outcome, whatever it is. I just have to work through it until I can get back on my meds and start going to Al-Anon meetings more regularly.
Please take good care of yourself. I wish you peace and good health.
Peace.
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