Secular/Alternative High Power?
Sober since October
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In the world in my eyes...Somewhere I've never been before...
Posts: 7,355
Secular/Alternative High Power?
Hi, all.
I am approaching my 7 months sobriety milestone, and I've been with SR all this time. I am not AA member, I am not using some particular method to stay sober. I think it's somewhat a mix of AVRT, SMART, my own willpower, exercising, changing my life, etc.
Now I rarely have cravings, my AV is quite silent.
I'm going through quite hard times now, I am often depressed, my thoughts and worries tear myself apart. I have no wish to dumb it with wine, but I feel like I need some way out.
I hear a lot of people referring to "higher power" in these cases. But I am not religious. Conventional perception of religion and God just doesn't appeal to me. It's hard for me even to pray to my own God because dogma starts to mess up and I end up with even more stress.
Though I believe that there are forces more powerful that our mind and conventional reality. I just can't find my own vision of it.
So, my question is - Do you use some "alternative higher power"? Some power that helps you when all the resources are exhausted and it's unbearably hard to go on in life? Something that grants a fresh and alternative view of life?
I would really appreciate your answers) Thanks a lot.
I am approaching my 7 months sobriety milestone, and I've been with SR all this time. I am not AA member, I am not using some particular method to stay sober. I think it's somewhat a mix of AVRT, SMART, my own willpower, exercising, changing my life, etc.
Now I rarely have cravings, my AV is quite silent.
I'm going through quite hard times now, I am often depressed, my thoughts and worries tear myself apart. I have no wish to dumb it with wine, but I feel like I need some way out.
I hear a lot of people referring to "higher power" in these cases. But I am not religious. Conventional perception of religion and God just doesn't appeal to me. It's hard for me even to pray to my own God because dogma starts to mess up and I end up with even more stress.
Though I believe that there are forces more powerful that our mind and conventional reality. I just can't find my own vision of it.
So, my question is - Do you use some "alternative higher power"? Some power that helps you when all the resources are exhausted and it's unbearably hard to go on in life? Something that grants a fresh and alternative view of life?
I would really appreciate your answers) Thanks a lot.
now's the time
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,181
I don't know what I believe in, either. In fact I think the only thing I really believe is that of course I don't know, the universe is a mystery and I don't presume to be able to understand it. Which means I don't think it's all science either. I think it's unknowable.
But I do know a couple of things for sure. I know my mind/the way that I experience my mind. And I know the things that happen to me. Because I believe that there's a meaning (maybe not a meaning involving a god or souls, but something) then I believe that these things, my mind and my experiences, are the only tangible bit of that meaning that I have contact with.
And there are some things that I reject. I reject the idea of a higher power in the anthropomorphized sense, because my sense of what the meaning must be is that it must be just. We are thirsty, so there's water. We're hungry, so there's food. We're spiritually hungry, too, so there must be a meaning. I don't think that meaning is a creature that performs small interventions for those that are already safe while letting genocide and starvation destroy others. That kind of illogic can't come from a consciousness. There are some truly terrible things in this world and whatever meaning there is will have to encompass all of it.
So that said! The meaning of everything! Way too big. I have no clue. Why am I, a young woman, blessed with my own financial independence and career when women in other parts of the world are treated as property? Too big for me, that is unknowable.
But my mind and my experiences are knowable, or at least fathomable. So I look for the meaning there. It's hard to do this, I have to remind myself all the time. But especially when something is hard, I look at the meaning. What is the lesson? What is the positive side? If this happened for a reason, what would that reason be?
Now I don't know for sure that there is a reason behind everything. But I know that when I look for one, I can usually find one, and finding it usually helps me. So by the end it doesn't really matter if there was an inherent meaning or if life is just chaos... the meaning I find is always valid and can always help me get through.
But I do know a couple of things for sure. I know my mind/the way that I experience my mind. And I know the things that happen to me. Because I believe that there's a meaning (maybe not a meaning involving a god or souls, but something) then I believe that these things, my mind and my experiences, are the only tangible bit of that meaning that I have contact with.
And there are some things that I reject. I reject the idea of a higher power in the anthropomorphized sense, because my sense of what the meaning must be is that it must be just. We are thirsty, so there's water. We're hungry, so there's food. We're spiritually hungry, too, so there must be a meaning. I don't think that meaning is a creature that performs small interventions for those that are already safe while letting genocide and starvation destroy others. That kind of illogic can't come from a consciousness. There are some truly terrible things in this world and whatever meaning there is will have to encompass all of it.
So that said! The meaning of everything! Way too big. I have no clue. Why am I, a young woman, blessed with my own financial independence and career when women in other parts of the world are treated as property? Too big for me, that is unknowable.
But my mind and my experiences are knowable, or at least fathomable. So I look for the meaning there. It's hard to do this, I have to remind myself all the time. But especially when something is hard, I look at the meaning. What is the lesson? What is the positive side? If this happened for a reason, what would that reason be?
Now I don't know for sure that there is a reason behind everything. But I know that when I look for one, I can usually find one, and finding it usually helps me. So by the end it doesn't really matter if there was an inherent meaning or if life is just chaos... the meaning I find is always valid and can always help me get through.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,937
You're a bit like me. I'm an atheist, also with 7 months sober under my belt. And while I likewise feel no compulsion to medicate with wine, I do wish I had something akin to the "higher power" to hand off my problems to.
For me, I kind of use Fate. No, I don't believe in predestination or that anything is preordained. Nor do I believe in Fates in the Greek sense. I guess I mean it in the sense of fatalism. That isn't pessimistic, but rather a realization that all roads lead to death and that no matter what we do that won't change. I realize that might sound negative, but to me it's a way of putting my own problems in perspective. I might be having a bad day but compared to global warming or an asteroid striking Earth it's not so bad!
For me Fate is just that segment of the physical world that I can't control. Many (most?) of us drunks are control freaks deep down. Booze either helps us control our world (our mood at least) or helps us deal with lack of control. Ultimately understanding and accepting that not everything can be controlled is the first step to finding some measure of peace.
Case in point, my mom's recent health scare. I'll be there for her, and I'll fight for her in any way I can, but someday we all will die. We can do what we can but nothing can prevent it. We can only make the best use we can of the time we're given.
My higher power is just acknowledging that I'm just a flea traveling on a camel's back.
For me, I kind of use Fate. No, I don't believe in predestination or that anything is preordained. Nor do I believe in Fates in the Greek sense. I guess I mean it in the sense of fatalism. That isn't pessimistic, but rather a realization that all roads lead to death and that no matter what we do that won't change. I realize that might sound negative, but to me it's a way of putting my own problems in perspective. I might be having a bad day but compared to global warming or an asteroid striking Earth it's not so bad!
For me Fate is just that segment of the physical world that I can't control. Many (most?) of us drunks are control freaks deep down. Booze either helps us control our world (our mood at least) or helps us deal with lack of control. Ultimately understanding and accepting that not everything can be controlled is the first step to finding some measure of peace.
Case in point, my mom's recent health scare. I'll be there for her, and I'll fight for her in any way I can, but someday we all will die. We can do what we can but nothing can prevent it. We can only make the best use we can of the time we're given.
My higher power is just acknowledging that I'm just a flea traveling on a camel's back.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 223
for me its karma of sorts
everything is energy
the way people respond to you is the energy you give out
living a life that sends out good energy into the world is my blueprint
so whatever that means for you
personally its trying to be kind and making choices that cause the least harm to the planet, animals, etc
everything is energy
the way people respond to you is the energy you give out
living a life that sends out good energy into the world is my blueprint
so whatever that means for you
personally its trying to be kind and making choices that cause the least harm to the planet, animals, etc
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26,425
although I waffle on and off on this...the bottem line...
I agree that we all "die" in our human form (and what a blessing to be allowed to experince life in a human form...with all it's pain and joy).
For me Karma is the law of cause and effect....it is non judgemental and it isn't good or bad. In fact it is very complex and is something that I often can't really trace to the roots. It's far more than if I do good I get good..it's that we are all interconnected..that we all live with the "Karma" of our deeds, our society, our country, our sexual idenity, our everything
I don't have a higher power that fixes things...but lots of things are bigger than me. I don't rule the world. What helps me is when I realalize what a small peice I look at every moment...stuck in time I see only what is occuring now. I believe that I am blessed to experince my life, despite how painful it can be. I believe that our human world is special because it has an end ... (read the illiad).
I don't need to have a "higher power" to hand off my problems to...I simply need to realize that I am not in control of the world. I have a sign over my work space that says "when there is no one there to carry the burden, there is no burden to carry". I have to let go of idea that I am supose to fix things and carry the world as a loose blanket....Not sure exactly how to explain...just a different type of letting go of worries that are beyond my control. Just do the next indicated thing and not get wrapped up in how things turn out.
Nands
I agree that we all "die" in our human form (and what a blessing to be allowed to experince life in a human form...with all it's pain and joy).
For me Karma is the law of cause and effect....it is non judgemental and it isn't good or bad. In fact it is very complex and is something that I often can't really trace to the roots. It's far more than if I do good I get good..it's that we are all interconnected..that we all live with the "Karma" of our deeds, our society, our country, our sexual idenity, our everything
I don't have a higher power that fixes things...but lots of things are bigger than me. I don't rule the world. What helps me is when I realalize what a small peice I look at every moment...stuck in time I see only what is occuring now. I believe that I am blessed to experince my life, despite how painful it can be. I believe that our human world is special because it has an end ... (read the illiad).
I don't need to have a "higher power" to hand off my problems to...I simply need to realize that I am not in control of the world. I have a sign over my work space that says "when there is no one there to carry the burden, there is no burden to carry". I have to let go of idea that I am supose to fix things and carry the world as a loose blanket....Not sure exactly how to explain...just a different type of letting go of worries that are beyond my control. Just do the next indicated thing and not get wrapped up in how things turn out.
Nands
Reach Out and Touch Faith
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On a Sailboat
Posts: 3,871
I do, there is a thread in Secular 12 Steps where I talk about feeling it while listening to Led Zeppelin. I'm but a piece in the universe but when I drink I go around the natural tide which has to make things right to go on. Now I'm a piece in this beautiful universe and I go where it needs my little molecules to go. It's that simple.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,090
Originally Posted by shockozulu 
I'm but a piece in the universe but when I drink I go around the natural tide which has to make things right to go on. Now I'm a piece in this beautiful universe and I go where it needs my little molecules to go. It's that simple.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
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[quote]So, my question is - Do you use some "alternative higher power"? Some power that helps you when all the resources are exhausted and it's unbearably hard to go on in life? Something that grants a fresh and alternative view of life?[quote]
I don't have faith in G*d or higher Powers, yet I have experience that can guide in changing my attitudes so to grant me a fresh and better perceive on life.
I don't have faith in G*d or higher Powers, yet I have experience that can guide in changing my attitudes so to grant me a fresh and better perceive on life.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
Originally Posted by MidnightBlue
So, my question is - Do you use some "alternative higher power"?
maybe this may be of some help for you
it would seem that if there is a higherpower
then
this higherpower would be the one who made the earth and stars
seems this would be the one to seek out
it would seem that if there is a higherpower
then
this higherpower would be the one who made the earth and stars
seems this would be the one to seek out
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by shockozulu
I do, there is a thread in Secular 12 Steps where I talk about feeling it while listening to Led Zeppelin. I'm but a piece in the universe but when I drink I go around the natural tide which has to make things right to go on. Now I'm a piece in this beautiful universe and I go where it needs my little molecules to go. It's that simple.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 5,678
When I was trying to get some sort of sense of a higher power, it was just faith in other people who had gone before me, a sort of strength that came from 'if they can I can'.
Now it is just belief that I can change. I have a choice over how I respond to things in my life. I can really relate to your post because even when I got to a stage of being happy not drinking I still had all this sh;t in my head which I needed to work through. It's a massive work in progress but stuff like CBT, SMART and various books on the subject are helping.
Kinda related to the higher power thing... Susan Jeffer's wrote about the 'higher self' which is a nice way of thinking of the better part of ourselves, our potential in a way. I found a lot of her stuff related quite well to addiction issues. The chatterbox concept relates quite well to AVRT anyway.
Now it is just belief that I can change. I have a choice over how I respond to things in my life. I can really relate to your post because even when I got to a stage of being happy not drinking I still had all this sh;t in my head which I needed to work through. It's a massive work in progress but stuff like CBT, SMART and various books on the subject are helping.
Kinda related to the higher power thing... Susan Jeffer's wrote about the 'higher self' which is a nice way of thinking of the better part of ourselves, our potential in a way. I found a lot of her stuff related quite well to addiction issues. The chatterbox concept relates quite well to AVRT anyway.
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