SettingSunset

My Adult Acoholic son is married with two children. Convicted of DUI 3 and scheduled for sentencing August this year. CONVICTED! SENTENCING! Oh my goodness. This is not part of our family, our life, my thinking. This seems like something I see on t.v., not in my life! My comment to him is "You have an opportunity for a new start, check yourself in." He has two beautiful children. If not for my grandchildren I 'may be' able to let go a bit easier. I know I didn't cause this and I can't cure it. Even though his wife is malevolent and zero support, I know she didn't cause it. He knows he is affecting his family and friends. He talks about not having an off switch. He is a smart man... So, I just step back and let go?? I won't see my grandchildren and they won't have the opportunity to see us. This is the part that is tearing me apart on those days I can't stop thinking. Do I send him this website so he has more tools in front of him? The legal system (probation) is in the process of preparing a presentencing report. He has every opportunity in this form alone to check himself in and prove he is going to try.

I have the 12 steps. I move forward, I am living my life. I can't help but have feelings for my son, my grandchildren. If I didn't, I would be cold and heartless. God didn't make me that way. My son is a wonderful man. The counselor I see said, "most of them are." I assumed she was referring to alcoholics such as my son are wonderful...but alcoholics.

chicory

SettingSunset,

I am sorry that this is happening in your family. I am glad to see that you know a lot about twelve steps, and have counselling services.

And yes, many alcoholics are wonderful people. You will find many of them here. Alcoholism is a disease, and nondiscriminatory.

I wish your son the best. He has a lot going for him, with a family that he loves and that loves him. That means a lot.

stick around, and you can talk to some recovering A's here, and families of A's. It is a wonderful site to find tools to use, and support .

prayers for your family.
chicory

dandylion

Dear settingsunset, I gently ask why you would not be able to see your grandchildren? I am the mother of an adult alcoholic son (no grandchildren). I understand how hard this is for you. Being the parent or grandparent of an alcoholic is just the worst. Flesh and blood takes the pain to a whole different level.

Please don't despair that all is hopeless. It is not. The most important thing, right now, is for you to have enough daily support--as y ou already know--this is too hard to go alone.

I'm glad you came here. There are other parents of adult alcoholics on the forum and they will be of good support to you.

sincerely, dandylion

SolTraveler

((SettingSunset)) as the long-term girlfriend of an alcoholic and mother of his soon-to-be-born child, I would personally advise you to try to make amends with the wife. She may not be your favorite person, and who knows, maybe she truly is an awful person, but she has been through a lot with him and perhaps a lot of her issues stem from that. A lot of people I know think I am taciturn or hard to get to know - I am not - just very stressed and anxious.

Anyway, she holds the keys to your grandchildren, so it is time to try to make nice as much as possible.

As for your son... make sure he knows you love him and you are here for him emotionally, but my advice (for what it is worth) is to let him get help on his own. As hard as it is, it sounds like he has a low bottom and he will have to seek help on his own for it to truly stick. My boyfriend is the same way, unfortunately.

SettingSunset

Lulu - I am sorry you have such strong feelings about my comments. I am not malevolent at all. I am definitely not definied as "having, showing, or arising from intense often vicious ill will, spite, or hatred. 2. : productive of harm or evil."

Dandylion - We do not know about our grandchildren, at this point. We will have to wait and see what happens. I am glad to hear someone say "flesh and blood takes the pain to a different level." Many people I have talked to at AA meetings or Alanon meetings are children, spouse...not parent of an adult alcoholic. The men and women at the AA meetings help me understand their illness which was helpful.

Growing up with a dad who was an alcoholic wasn't easy, but I survived. I had my mom who was a wonderful person. My dad loved us, never really doubted it.

My son loves his children dearly. They really need him, sober.

I will keep seeing the counselor as needed.

dandylion

Dear SettingSunset, I would like for you to continue to come here--and just vent (or express) your feelings as often as you need. It is so important for you to feel that you can be "heard" by those who truly understand. Stuffing those kinds of intense feelings is not good for anyone. there are many more on this forum who understand (Sundays are, typically, rather slow on the board).

I'm hoping that it will be possible to work out a way for you to have some regular contact with the grandchildren. Your son is still young---and it is possible for him to eventually reach for sobriety. Just because he hasn't reached his bottom yet--doesn't mean that he won't. I am sure that you have been told this by AA--right??

I am soo glad that you are seeing a counselor. We get so wrapped-up in the pain that we sometimes loose our objectivity--I know that I do.

Please hang around--others also gain strength from your journey.

sincerely, dandylion

SolTraveler

I agree with Dandylion - a lot of us on the board offer some rather strong opinions. Most of it is truly trying to be helpful, but just like any other public place, some of what you hear will not be to your liking. Use the old AA adage "take what you want and leave the rest."

There certainly is hope for your son, and it sounds like he is trying. That is a start!

Lulu39

Yet you clearly stated that your son's wife is:

The spouses of alcoholics are so often demonised by others. Keep reading here and you might start to understand what the partners and spouses of alcoholics have been through.

A 3rd DUI could be EXACTLY what your son needs. I used to pray that something would happen to wake my XAH up so he would realise the steaming pile of sh*t his life and by association my life and our children's lives had become. Sadly, he only managed to crash his car and my car into things no-one cared about. Oh and he "only" managed 2 DUIs.

And just like your daughter in law, I am the malevolent one in all this. I didn't care enough or do enough to help. In actuality, I started to learn to put myself and my kids first and get out of his way so he could drink himself to death and only ruin his own life.

SolTraveler

Lulu has a point - that does happen quite a bit. That is not to say that you are guilty of that, though.

I am lucky in that my ABF and I have know each other since we were kids so I know his parents well and they are very supportive of me. Not so much of him - he has really put them through the wringer in the past 17 years and I was not around for much of that.

SettingSunset

Lulu - I hear you. I am not demonishing my DIL or her person. She has an illness (of some type) as my son has an illness. I know what my son's illness is. My DIL has demonished herself, separate from my AS. There are those marriages that should have never been. I won't go in to how my DIL has hurt herself because I should not have brought her up.

I am here because I love my son dearly. I love my grandchildren. A mother gives birth to a beautiful human being and all I ever want for my sons was happiness. I remember when my children were very young and then teenagers... the worse nightmare ever would be if either one of my sons were alcoholics. I am living the nightmare. My son is 42. I have hoped he may be taken sick enough to be hospitalized where he may 'wake up' and be able to give up the alcoholic. This happened to a person I know. He tried rehab many times and when he was taken to emergency and thought he would die, he quit. Unfortunately his first marriage broke apart, his children are distant, and he sees his only grandson very little. Very sad. I don't wish this for anyone.

When I was growing up with my Afather, I didn't see it as an illness. I saw it as something to be hidden and embarassed by...and his behavior scared me. I didn't like how he treated my mom. You, probably like my mom are a wonderful, kind, caring person who loves her children and (loved) her husband at one time.

I pray for you and your children that you have been able to find serenity in life.

I do understand your hurt and anger. I do understand your attack on my words regarding my DIL. I also want you to know, I do not blame my DIL for my son's drinking. It is his issue, not hers. She has her own personal issues that came much before she knew my son. Unfortunate for her.

I will attempt not to bring up my DIL in any further posts.

SettingSunset

SIT - I do believe Lulu has a point that many spouses are demonished, not only wives, but husbands. They are blamed for every part of the failure. Very sad, but true.

I have been to many AA meetings where they helped me understand the thoughts of an alcoholic. I have been to many Alanon meetings where I have learned to let go, let God and move forward. I work at that every day.

I can't let go of a child I gave birth to. He is on his own in every way, shape, form. He has never asked for any help financially or other. We have been through enabling...and back out the other side. We have learned enabling may drive him to a deeper bottom. I will always love him and be here for him. I can't do anything for him...but I am here. I won't allow him to ramble on if is drinking. I cut it short. That is my boundary. I tell him I love him and if he would like to call me in the morning, please call me then -- sober.

For a long time, I found it difficult to determine if he had been drinking. When he was younger (post college age) he would have his beers and he seemed sober. I since learned, the ability to consume a good amount of alcohol and be perceived as sober still is typical of a person who has the gene (??) to become an alcoholic.

SettingSunset

Dandylion - Thank you for your thoughful words.

My son is 42 and I have learned every person's bottom is different. I have faith.

God has a purpose for my son.

dandylion

SettingSunset, Just want to say that I have you in my thoughts. Sometimes, I have to remind my self to "Let Go and Let God". I know that we mothers tend to feel so responsible and so guilty for everything that happens to our kids.

Also---UUghh--this is Mother's Day weekend coming up. It is hard for me to watch all those nostalgic Mother's Day ads on TV, internet, etc... All those "perfect" families and "perfect" kids, etc..

I try to remember that there are many other mothers who are in the same boat as me.

sincerely, dandylion

SettingSunset

Have a great mother's day. Guilt - Hmmm. I talked to a lady at Alanon once. She was young...she was dreading the family get together. I am not sure who the alcoholic was in her life. She said she always tries to make everyone feel comfortable; avoid any uneasiness for anyone.

I have come to the conclusion there are no perfect families or perfect kids. Everyone has someone in their life they worry about or are concerned about. If someone tells me every think is GREAT ALL THE TIME, I don't think they are honest.

Have a great day today.

wanttobehealthy

Setting Sunset- I don't know what it is like to be the mother of an alcoholic who with a DUI 3 clearly has been ill for a long time. That must be painful, knowing you did your best with him and nothing you do or don't do (same with his wife) will help him until HE gets honest and deals with his issues.

I am the ex wife of an alcoholic whose mother says he is a wonderful man bc she never once has seen the abuse he inflicted on me in private.

His mother (the wife of an abusive alcoholic herself) has said I have an illness and am in need of serious help and that her son's alcoholism and abuse have nothing to do with my issues (that she has diagnosed!)

I would encourage you, gently, to consider that unless you live with your son and daughter in law, you aren't privy to his private persona and it is VERY likely that it is quite different than his public one.

To outsiders who didn't know what my xAH was like it was ME who appeared on edge, upset, angry, irritable etc... His family talked about me as you do about your daughter in law. It should be a sign to anyone who knows anything about addiction that when one spouse seems so upset and the other (the addict) appears laid back, you might want to consider that there is some ugly stuff that goes on behind closed doors.

Again I am sorry for your pain and I wish for you and your daughter in law that you could support one another and not be adversarial. Your son needs help and refuses to get it.

Florence

Agreed. This is also my experience. I take the blame from his family. My irritation and anger was my inability to put on the straight face and family gatherings and pretend everything was fine, when he was sabotaging my well-being and the kids' well-being. I also know that I tried to discuss it with them on more than one occasion and they blew me off and decided I was the problem.

I hope this doesn't sound familiar.

Worrying solves nothing. If your primary concern is seeing your grandkids you have a direct line to them through their mother. I suggest you explore that path and let your grown adult son self-destruct if that's what he wants to do. Your grandkids will appreciate that you were a stable force in their lives, and I'm sure their mom might appreciate the babysitting.

My soon-to-be ex in-laws are free to contact me to see their grandchildren whenever they wish. They opt not to contact me, and go through their active adult alcoholic son, who tells them god knows what. Why they use him as the conduit for information and arrangements is BEYOND me. They still believe he is a reliable source for information -- even though he's an active addict.

SettingSunset

Florence - Thank you for your quote/comment. From growing up in an alcoholic home, I do understand the spouse alcoholic relatonship. My mom never was nasty, hateful even though my dad drank and was verbally and physically abusive.

Married less than two years, in 2005, I sent an email, "Do you have an ecopy of your wedding picture of you, son, other son, other DIL, dad, and myself? If yes, could you send it to me?" Her response was, "Stop e-mailing me these rude e-mails. I do not want to have any contact with you since it is always unpleasant." I replied with, "O.k. I will let Aunt know. I didn't have one available snd she asked me for one. Ours is packed away. I didn't think it was a rude question. Thank you DIL." Then she said, "Why don't you tell her that I am not interested in communicating with you instead. You are such a bitch to write back such a response. I am really just sick of dealing with what a selfish person you are."

BTW - I recently ran across this one email in the file when I was cleaning. I had thrown all the emails out she has sent me because I wanted to put it in the past and move forward. I made sure over the years I was not in a room alone because she knew she could scream at me and belittle me. She knew she could intimidate me.

A nurse friend says, I think some other / additional words could describe her
Psychopath, sociopath.

Please, let's drop DIL. She is not well.

I can't continue to tell everyone I DO NOT BLAME the DIL for my son's drinking. I know the marriage is toxic. It should not have happened. This is all aside from my son's alcholism.

We are free to contact DIL for our grandchildren. I can not put myself in front of her to have her stand two steps up in the house and scream and yell at me telling me her parents hate us (which is totally false). I will not stand in fear, two steps below her, fearful she will hit me. I will not put myself in a position where she slams the door and holds it closed so I can not leave. After 9 years of this, I decided I need to protect myself. Unless, I am suppose to be strong enough to go through her attacks, along with losing my son to alcoholism? How much should I be able to endure? Maybe God is strengtening me for something worse? I can't imagine anything worse than losing my son to alcohol. This was my worse nightmare.


Tell me - why did she do this to ME? I have always been the one supporting of her when no one would talk to her...my family, my sons' friends. I supported her. Hmm, maybe I am the crazy person???

Let's drop DIL. I try to explain something and I am perceived as a nut and lying.

I think I will visit the counselor on Monday. I am taking the email. Maybe she will tell me not a big deal, your DIL is 'just fine'.

SettingSunset

Wantobehealthy - I hear you. I understand you. I do not know what goes on behind closed doors. I do know what is in front of me. I do not diagnose DIL. I have defended her to everyone in the family and our friends because my son was married to her.

I imagine you sent horrible emails to your mother in law and brought home phen phen so you and your husband could stay up all night. I imagine you also were on Match.com while married, looking for others. I imagine you screamed at your MIL 6 weeks into your marriage saying she had a lot of nerve inviting her sons and their spouses for Thanksgiving. I imagine you punch and kick your XAH. I imagine you send emails to a guy you met on Match.com -- I am not saying any of this second hand. This is first hand...seen with my eyes. Woman CAN be sick and abusive.

This subject needs to be dropped.

My son needs to get help. He knows he is an alcoholic. He knows he is hurting us and his children. He needs to GET THE HELP to quit drinking. He needs to get a clear head and move forward...whatever forward is.

wanttobehealthy

Setting Sunset- with all due respect you are spending a lot of time blaming your DIL and using words like psychopath and sociopath.

My heart really does go out to you and I hope I am never in the position of seeing one of my children in the throws of addiction and helpless to do anything. That must be awful.

Just from my perspective: I know my MIL will believe ANYTHING at all that makes her be able to see her son in a more positive light. Her son has abused me in front of her and it is I who gets called the abuser. You get the picture. I imagine the tales she tells to others are skewed and I wonder how much of your opinion of your DIL is influenced by your son's version of events.

It is maternal instinct to defend our kids but it sounds to me like you and your DIL are both hurting and could use one anothers support. I am sorry that you are hurting and that your son is and it sounds like, has been in such a bad place for so long.

Whatever your DIL's transgressions they don't cause your son's alcoholism and all the accompanying behaviors.

Maybe if her mother were posting she would say that sure her daughter has done x, y, and z but it's bc her husband (your son) has driven her to it.

They both sound like they have issues. And for as long as your son has anyone who is even remotely willing to play the blame/projection game and give him sympathy for how "difficult" his wife is, the further down the denial and alcoholism road he is going to go.

I think that the best thing you could do for him would be to tell him to focus SOLELY on himself. His resentments (and yours as clear in these posts) are detracting from his own and your own peace and recovery.

Let your DIL deal with her issues and your son deal with his.

SettingSunset

wantotbehealty - You are so right in what you say. My son's alcohlism is his problem, no one elses. He is the one who has to step up to the plate and stop drinking, "one day at a time". If he makes a choice that he prefers to drink he takes his children down the tubes with him. Not an easy life as a child of an alcoholic knows. I survived because of my mom.

My concern is myself. I work at one-day-at-a-time making myself whole.

We want both DIL and alcoholic to deal with their issues. Why do they call us to give us the 'report'? We don't care to know. We wish they would focus on themselves and not involve us. DIL calls us screaming about alcoholic. We suggest Alanon. What else can we do? She could have an intervention. She lives with him. We don't.

I see you are from the NE US. We are actually from NE, US. Moved to the South/central for beautious weather and to live life where the sun shines. Haven't been living yet, but I am going in that direction.

Last night about 11 p.m. I came to the conclusion to worry about myself, not interact with conversations (son is out of state) that are not about the weather. I am no longer going to be the driving force in trying to see my grandchildren. In fact, I am going to tell my son when he calls that I haven't seen my grandchildren in almost a year because of him. I no longer will put effort into it. On my own now...and living MY life. I love you alcoholic son, but your choice is to live a toxic life and I can't be part of the toxic lifestyle

Life is so interesting.