SolTraveler

I am really struggling with the idea of "loving detachment." I can detach, sometimes (still a skill in progress) but when I do, I am as cold as ice, and that seems to make the situation worse for both my ABF and I. He doesn't get it or it raises his defenses sky high and I feel even worse - amps my anxiety.

How can you maintain loving detachment? Or can you?

CompletelyLost4

Ok, so I struggle with this, but in the reverse. I feel like I am too "loving" and could use a little cold as ice detachment.

I think you can show compassion and encouragement without interfering or getting involved.

The problem I have with this is I tend to want to "fix" things, so I don't want my compassion to be misread as I am going to take care of things again. Does that make sense?

SolTraveler

Meee toooo.... I tend to go overboard the other way to compensate. For example, when I know he is going out that night, I will make dinner for the kids but not for him. I will completely ignore him when he gets home. I will be cold and angry the next day.

It all does no good though and I feel a bit like I am punishing myself instead of him.

So I wonder what "loving" detachment looks like.

dandylion

Dear SolTraveler, just because you are "detaching"--don't expect that he is going to like it.We stop enabling, they will usually protest loudly. at first. (you may need to state so m e boundries, at that point). The alcoholic wants to keep you in that "sweet spot" where they can still maintain their usual drinking habits--and YOU are messing that up!

It is important not to react to his reaction. His reaction is his to own. He can like it or he can lump it.

Try to keep in mind that detaching is to reduce the chaos--the stupid fights; not personalizing the hurtful accusations. Not to let his bad moods keep you from your plans or drag you down.

You will have to learn not to let his moods determine your moods.

Detachment is not easy to do--esp. at first. ACTUALLY, IT IS A HELPFUL TOOL, BUT IT WON'T CURE THE TOXIC RELATIONSHIP. It is to help you--buy you some relief while you are busy working on your own self---regaining your own life from the strangling hold that the alcoholic holds on it.

You may need some other tools, also. For instance, lowering the bar of your expectations of the alcoholic. That can help a lot. The less you expect--the less disappointed and angry you will be.

There are so many tools in the "toolbox". Detachment and lowering expectations are but two.

Keep practicing the detachment thing--it gets easier. When you get good at it--you will feel a little bit of your own power creeping back.

sincerely, dandylion

wicked

SolTraveler,

When I began to learn about detachment, the entire concept was foreign to me.
So, I learned what detachment is and what it means to me.
Maybe just learning what detachment is for you in this relationship is the first step.
Loving detachment (to me) is for a zen master. And, I am not there yet. :rotfxko

But, I practice detachment by asking myself a question.
Is this action (whatever it is) mine to control? If not, I can detach.

You can ask your husband to be home for dinner.
Then you can detach from whether he does or not.

During the end of my marriage, money was tight and we had two young children.
So, if my ex did not come home for a planned dinner, I wrapped it up.
The next day he did not get any cash from me for fast food (he had smoked his money up) he got the dinner he missed.
He did not like that. Too bad. I was detached from his temper tantrums.
ah, it is hard to describe. I am still always working on it.

Beth

m1k3

i did not start working detachment until after I moved out and then it was detach with rage. After 2 years I am up to detach with indifference.

Oh well, good enough for me.

Your friend,

Tuffgirl

I agree with Pelican, Mike, and Dandylion, and also found the concept of "loving detachment" challenging.

Here's the closest example to loving detachment I can find in my life: my 16 yr old has a boyfriend. After attempting to give her some unsolicited advice one day after witnessing some bad behavior, she snapped at me to basically mind my own business and not comment on her relationship with this boy. Because she can be very nasty and hormonal, and I find it irritating to say the least, I decided to leave it alone. Which means I also ignore the bad behavior I see coming from her as well. I still love her, we just don't talk at all about her relationship unless she specifically brings it up to me.

It protects my own peace of mind. Detaching from it and allowing her to figure it out herself also gives her the respect she wants. She is trying to be a grown up, after all.

Detaching isn't a form of punishment. It's not a form of communication either (i.e., silent treatment). It's for us, not them. It's recognizing what we have control over and what we don't. And finding acceptance in what we cannot control. I can't control my 16 yr old. I can guide and influence, but she is old enough now to reject control tactics. And she wants to be her own person, I respect that, even when I don't agree with the person she is being at the moment.

Like Mike, I learned detachment FIRST by detaching in anger and self preservation. I was still emotionally involved, but learning to let go of the outcome. Over time, it became easier to understand how detachment works. Take it one day at a time, Start small, and celebrate your successes when they happen.

Peace,
~T

dandylion

SolTraveler---a word of caution---detachment doesn't mean that we tolerate abusive or unacceptable behavior. It is to make life easier for us---not worse.


It does allow us to pick and choose what we will react to--or just ignore

dandylion

Hammer

ggeeeezzzz, Beth. You were not his wife. You were his mommy .

Laughing and joking about because when Mrs. Hammer came back from rehab she kept saying that the rehab T's kept telling her that I was/am "her father."

I was thinking about it and figured maybe that was like when Luke Skywalker found out that Darth Vader was his dad (ok, weird starwar nerd ref, there).

All of it left me puzzled for a while until I looked up about the condition called "dependent wife." Basically applies to addicts, alcoholics, etc. of either flavor. Do not want to grow up and want someone else responsible for their life.

So I have quit taking care of "her stuff." Called "her stuff," because it is not my stuff. She has had a few Temper Tantrums about that from her since rehab, but overall seems to be doing fine . . . and I am no longer her dad.

wicked

oh yeah, you got it. and he accidentally called me "mom" during an argument!






I wonder if that was my very sick (I was still newly recovering from alcohol) way of detaching from him as a partner.
Making him a child, and he was the dependent type.

I certainly was not gonna sleep with him. ewwwwww!

phoebe2

ok, fairly new here. But, how is detachment different than ignoring. I have asked my husband if he is drinking and he flat out denies it. I have not asked in a long time but I know he still is. He is a very functioning alcoholic, has a good job and is very responsible. He just drinks quite often almost every day and at inappropriate times.

We don't have chaos but I feel very distant from him. I do not want him to touch me let along have sex. I feel myself shutting down and pulling away. But, by "detaching" or ignoring I just feel like nothing changes and he can go on drinking and denying and thinking no one can tell. He is lying to me and to himself and I want him to know I know.

marie1960

For me personally, I never heard the term detach with love, until I arrived here. (The day I arrived at SR I had ended the relationship with the alcoholic.) At first, when I read a detach with love post, it had a certain political tone, I could only compare to a politician talking out both sides of his mouth. I just didn't quite understand, but the truth was I did not understand alcoholism/addiction either.

Even though I was in a no contact situation, and I no longer had an active alkie to deal with on a daily basis, detaching with love allowed me to feel compassion, I could accept his choices, but more importantly, with time, I could now accept my choice to not allow his behavior to have any further negative consequences on my life.

I do not believe I could continue to be involved with someone and be capable of detaching from the unacceptable behavior. (JMHO). Others can do it, and I can offer support for their choice, but it certainly cannot be an easy choice. Perhaps, for some it is a stepping stone, a place to be/ a moment in time, while they continue to sort out their troubled lives.

I see the definition of detachment, as choosing ME. Not the addict, not his choices, not his actions, just ME, free and clear, and far away from the madness.

theuncertainty

Hi, Phoebe! Welcome to SR F&F!

Detaching isn't ignoring the behavior; it's more like a realization that we can't control the behavior... Acknowledging that when we ask if they've been drinking, we_know_ their answer will usually be no even if the truth is yes. I knew when AXH was drinking. I knew he'd lie if I asked. I'd still ask, and he'd lie and I'd be surprised / disappointed. It was weird. I knew, but I'd ask. I'd have been disappointed either way he answered. So why did I ask?

Nothing may change for the A when their loved ones are able to step back from the ride, but it should help us protect our... serenity, morality, humanity.

AnvilheadII

I think it helps if we understand the CONCEPT of detachment and the goal of detaching. most of have become enmeshed with the addict in our lives....overly attached to them, what they are doing, thinking, feeling, to the point where we can no longer discern and distinguish our OWN thoughts and feelings. we become almost incapable of acting under our own power, doing anything that does not first go thru the filter of THEM. how will they act, react? we become convinced if we just DO the right thing, SAY the right thing, change enough, then we can influence THEM.

detachment is about undoing all of that. and it's not done in a day!!! it starts out like sorting laundry with a blindfold on....is this white, dark, delicate, stained, hand wash only? is this MINE or THEIRS?

detaching is the art of learning where we end and they begin and how to not take what THEY do so personally it upsets our balance. it's learning to let go of the notion that somehow THEIR addiction is OUR problem to solve. that whether they keep on in active addiction or not, we let that be THEIR business and we worry about our own business...what do I NEED TO DO to make ME ok regardless of what THEY do.

can I live in this situation? am I safe? am I financially secure? am I able to conduct my life and my affairs unimpeded? THEY have been the traffic circle in our path - detachment finds a new path. I guess the love part is when we can say - I do this FOR ME, not to punish YOU. or we start to love US more.

SolTraveler

I think I understand it more, and I am glad to know that I have been practicing many of these behaviors on my own. For example, I no longer engage in boring, rambling philosophical conversations with him when he is drunk. I tell him that I will be happy to discuss whatever is on his mind when he is sober. When he is hung over, he gets his own asprin, water, etc. I don't cater to him at all, which drives him nuts.

That part makes sense. You do not want to make it easier for them when they are engaging in these behaviors.

However, it still gets muddy when we talk about the differences between ignoring unacceptable behavior and standing up for ourselves. Essentially, it sometimes feels like enabling to me at times because my ABF knows I am not happy with the situation (like when he comes home at 2:30 absolutely tanked) but as long as I am not screaming at him, he assumes or at least acts like everything is fine. That just doesn't seem fair to me. It feels like letting him get away with it, you know?

But they key is, as many of you have said, it isn't about punishing him, it is about keeping myself sane. And yelling at him hurts me and gets me upset more than it hurts him or helps him see what he is doing.

Maybe I DO have it...

CodeJob

Hi Phoebe,
I did this approach and it was me who hit bottom first. I just decided (finally) that I would no longer live with an active alcoholic. Peace to you!

dandylion

Dear SolTraveler, perhaps the thing you might think about is lowering your expectations of your boyfriend. If he is going to come home at 2:30AM drunk from time to time anyway--maybe it is unrealistic to think he is going to stop or that you can control it. If you just expect this out of him---you won't be so disappointed when he does.

Alcoholics are going to do what they do---get drunk; lie about it; manipulate; shift blame; etc....... We make ourselves "crazy" when we expect them to behave like healthy, non-alcoholic partners.

How does this sound??

sincerely, dandylion

MrsDarcy

I love this thread and all of you for sharing your wisdom. I think I might print it out so I can hang onto it.
Phoebe, your situation sounds very similar to mine. I don't really have anything to add to what has already been said except that for me the business of detachment has taken a lot of practice. Just tonight, in fact, I had kind of a break through moment when my AH did something that annoyed me (while drunk of course) that in the past would have derailed my mood for the whole evening. Instead I let the annoyance just pass right through me and I carried on having a pretty pleasant evening. It felt pretty good. Keep at it. I'm sure you'll get there.

MrsDarcy

[QUOTE=SolTraveler;3949448]Meee toooo.... I tend to go overboard the other way to compensate. For example, when I know he is going out that night, I will make dinner for the kids but not for him. I will completely ignore him when he gets home. I will be cold and angry the next day.

It all does no good though and I feel a bit like I am punishing myself instead of him.

So I wonder what "loving" detachment looks like.[/QUOTE

Here's something that works for me

When I find myself wanting to "punish" my AH, I remind myself that he will either not notice (his capacity to not see what he doesn't want to see is truly astounding), or he will notice and we will end up in a useless argument. Either way, no good purpose will be served. Instead, I just apply simple good manners, as if he were a stranger I don't want to talk to but don't want to be rude to either. If he asks me a question I keep my response short and to the point so as not encourage further conversation. If its dinner time--well the man needs to eat. Everyone does--no need to turn it into a thing.

Lulu39

He knows you know he is lying to you. He doesn't care. He just wants to drink.

Stop getting in his way.