My husband is so detached
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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My husband is so detached
Hi, my husband's father was an alcoholic, and very violent. He grew up watching his father who was so nice sober, turn into a mean drunk and yell and curse at his family and beat his wife, my husbands mother. He had a big family, but it seems that instead of comforting each other, they withdrew to their own rooms. It seems like every family get together ended the same, father drunk, beating up mom, older brothers jumping dad.
When we met, he slept with tv and stereo on super loud, I learned later that was how he drowned out the fighting. And his hands tremble for no reason sometimes. One day his mom had enough and stabbed dad. Didn't kill him but they separated. My husband left home and joined military.
I love my husband to death, he is the kindest person you could meet. But he always struggled with emotions, took him a long time to be able to say I love you or be affectionate. We've been married for almost 30 years now, we're young when we go married. I know he loves me, and although I think he drinks to much sometimes, he never gets violent, just moody when he drinks. Like he shuts me out. He sits sometimes with a beer and headphones listening to music from his childhood, like he's isolating himself. Going down memory lane, to really bad times.
Our kids love him, our youngest is 17, but except for her, I can't really say his relationship with them is good. Our daughter is very affectionate with him, but she initiates it, hugs him and he always jokes with her like he doesn't like it, but he loves her for it and they are very close. Our sons, in their 20s he can't be affectionate with and they mainly talk about sports. But when they need advice or guidance, when other dads would jump in and guide, he seems more stressed and irritated, and shys away from that. So I feel like I've been their mother and father. I think he loves them, but sometimes it feels like if one of them died, he would feel nothing.
And anytime i try to communicate when I don't agree with him, he is on the defensive, so either I swallow my feelings or he acts like thinks I'm going to blow a gasket or cause a scene, and flees the scene. So many times too,I have cried about different things and he will just leave me by myself, when all I need is a hug. Which used to make me angry, and he told me he gets scared and doesn't know how to handle it. I've told him several times all I need is a hug, but he just can't seem to do it. Or if he does, I can feel how uncomfortable he is. What bothers me the most though,is his relationship with our sons. His whole family is the same with their kids. If they do something wrong,they will talk behind their backs, they are so afraid of conflict. I figure, it's your kids, why are you so afraid to communicate?
He's always taken care of us materially, gone to work and provided. Never abusive, never cheated. So he's a good man, but now that I'm premenopausal, I am not as patient and I can tell he wants to fix things sometimes but doesn't know how. I spoke to him about going to a support group for children of alcoholics, but he said no.
Thanks for letting me vent...
When we met, he slept with tv and stereo on super loud, I learned later that was how he drowned out the fighting. And his hands tremble for no reason sometimes. One day his mom had enough and stabbed dad. Didn't kill him but they separated. My husband left home and joined military.
I love my husband to death, he is the kindest person you could meet. But he always struggled with emotions, took him a long time to be able to say I love you or be affectionate. We've been married for almost 30 years now, we're young when we go married. I know he loves me, and although I think he drinks to much sometimes, he never gets violent, just moody when he drinks. Like he shuts me out. He sits sometimes with a beer and headphones listening to music from his childhood, like he's isolating himself. Going down memory lane, to really bad times.
Our kids love him, our youngest is 17, but except for her, I can't really say his relationship with them is good. Our daughter is very affectionate with him, but she initiates it, hugs him and he always jokes with her like he doesn't like it, but he loves her for it and they are very close. Our sons, in their 20s he can't be affectionate with and they mainly talk about sports. But when they need advice or guidance, when other dads would jump in and guide, he seems more stressed and irritated, and shys away from that. So I feel like I've been their mother and father. I think he loves them, but sometimes it feels like if one of them died, he would feel nothing.
And anytime i try to communicate when I don't agree with him, he is on the defensive, so either I swallow my feelings or he acts like thinks I'm going to blow a gasket or cause a scene, and flees the scene. So many times too,I have cried about different things and he will just leave me by myself, when all I need is a hug. Which used to make me angry, and he told me he gets scared and doesn't know how to handle it. I've told him several times all I need is a hug, but he just can't seem to do it. Or if he does, I can feel how uncomfortable he is. What bothers me the most though,is his relationship with our sons. His whole family is the same with their kids. If they do something wrong,they will talk behind their backs, they are so afraid of conflict. I figure, it's your kids, why are you so afraid to communicate?
He's always taken care of us materially, gone to work and provided. Never abusive, never cheated. So he's a good man, but now that I'm premenopausal, I am not as patient and I can tell he wants to fix things sometimes but doesn't know how. I spoke to him about going to a support group for children of alcoholics, but he said no.
Thanks for letting me vent...
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: it's complicated
Posts: 99
It helped me to understand that, growing up with two parents who were adult children and problem drinkers rather than active alcoholics (one crossed over into alcoholism later) I also grew up with an alcoholic family. We had the same family rules, don't talk don't trust don't feel, and they were just as strongly enforced as if there had been an A in the house.
You are welcome at Alanon and there may be other suitable programs as well, and I think you'd be fine at an adult children of alcoholics meeting. It is for other kinds of family dysfunction as well, and after 30 years of living by alcoholic family rules, you have earned your seat a couple of times over.
You are welcome at Alanon and there may be other suitable programs as well, and I think you'd be fine at an adult children of alcoholics meeting. It is for other kinds of family dysfunction as well, and after 30 years of living by alcoholic family rules, you have earned your seat a couple of times over.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 23
Thank you Reedling, for your response.
I've often wondered if I would be allowed to go to Alnon, and now I will. As I said, I love my husband very much and I know he wishes sometimes he could be different. After I get upset with him and we make up he will say half jokingly "you know I'm messed up".
But thanks so much for your reply again,it almost made me cry, sometimes I feel like no one understands, and I don't really tell people, out of respect for my husband, so everyone thinks we are this perfect couple.
I will look for Alnon in my area..
I've often wondered if I would be allowed to go to Alnon, and now I will. As I said, I love my husband very much and I know he wishes sometimes he could be different. After I get upset with him and we make up he will say half jokingly "you know I'm messed up".
But thanks so much for your reply again,it almost made me cry, sometimes I feel like no one understands, and I don't really tell people, out of respect for my husband, so everyone thinks we are this perfect couple.
I will look for Alnon in my area..
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,437
Hi Slm65. Your husband sounds like he has worked a lifetime to cope and has found skills that work for him but not the family. Though the old standby, "it could be worse", might apply. I'm glad he didn't follow in his Dad's footsteps and is not abusive. My siblings and I were the beaten ones in our family, my alcoholic Dad never beat my Mom as she would join in, instructing him "not where is shows Dad...not where it shows..." But as I said none of us siblings beat our kids or spouses. We have had other various emotional problems to be sure. I guess we all bear emotional scars from growing up with a violent alcoholic, some worse than others.
Attending meetings yourself might go a long way to reinforce that this isn't directed to you or your children. Have you read much of the literature? The stickies above are priceless if you want to understand what he has going on in his mind. I hope that he may end up there with you, and your children as well would benefit. But that might take a long while.
Attending meetings yourself might go a long way to reinforce that this isn't directed to you or your children. Have you read much of the literature? The stickies above are priceless if you want to understand what he has going on in his mind. I hope that he may end up there with you, and your children as well would benefit. But that might take a long while.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 23
Thank you for sharing your experience Kialua,
Yes I think it's true, he's found a way of coping and it's true he would never lay a hand on me. He tells me sometimes that he really values me and is sorry he doesn't show it enough. I wish his relationship with the boys were better, but I guess I have to accept it. When they were small, I sat down with them and told them what dad had been through as a kid and that is why it's hard for him to hug and get affectionate, so they were understanding, but I know they need him sometimes.
I saw a book I wanted to get, but I haven't really read up to much except online. But this past year it's like I reached the breaking point, and I would never leave, but I just need to understand why he is like this. So I decided to find Alnon in my area, just looked it up, and I will go myself.
Thanks again!
Yes I think it's true, he's found a way of coping and it's true he would never lay a hand on me. He tells me sometimes that he really values me and is sorry he doesn't show it enough. I wish his relationship with the boys were better, but I guess I have to accept it. When they were small, I sat down with them and told them what dad had been through as a kid and that is why it's hard for him to hug and get affectionate, so they were understanding, but I know they need him sometimes.
I saw a book I wanted to get, but I haven't really read up to much except online. But this past year it's like I reached the breaking point, and I would never leave, but I just need to understand why he is like this. So I decided to find Alnon in my area, just looked it up, and I will go myself.
Thanks again!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 179
My dad was the alcoholic. He was a very unpredictable drunk, sometimes jovial, sometimes mellow sometimes rageful. We never knew what to expect.
I've always hid my emotions. It was my way to cope in that situation. Try not to trigger Dad, just watch, stay out of the way and react to his mood as needed.
That has not served me well in my relationship with my wife and kids. Last year I came really close to losing it all. I'm still 'in recovery'. I may be for the rest of my life, but it will get better one day at a time. It took me almost losing my marital relationship to really appreciate what it means to me, and that I needed to step out of my comfort zone to feed it.
My wife also would 'never leave', but she was extremely dissatisfied, and it left our marriage vulnerable. She found some excitement and connection in other men (online sex chats). When I discovered it, I was devastated. I don't think she truly understands how painful that was for me. She didn't intend for things to go where they did. But she was bored, disconnected and as it unfolded she liked the excitement more than she feared the risk to our marriage.
Try to find a kind way to tell your husband that you need his attention and affection. Fight for it if you have to. And be willing to risk the marriage to get it. If you don't, then keep your guard up. Crossing boundaries when it comes to affection is a lot like the analogy of boiling a frog. If you drop the frog into hot water it will hop out. But if you slowly raise the temperature of the water the frog is in, it doesn't notice.
I've always hid my emotions. It was my way to cope in that situation. Try not to trigger Dad, just watch, stay out of the way and react to his mood as needed.
That has not served me well in my relationship with my wife and kids. Last year I came really close to losing it all. I'm still 'in recovery'. I may be for the rest of my life, but it will get better one day at a time. It took me almost losing my marital relationship to really appreciate what it means to me, and that I needed to step out of my comfort zone to feed it.
My wife also would 'never leave', but she was extremely dissatisfied, and it left our marriage vulnerable. She found some excitement and connection in other men (online sex chats). When I discovered it, I was devastated. I don't think she truly understands how painful that was for me. She didn't intend for things to go where they did. But she was bored, disconnected and as it unfolded she liked the excitement more than she feared the risk to our marriage.
Try to find a kind way to tell your husband that you need his attention and affection. Fight for it if you have to. And be willing to risk the marriage to get it. If you don't, then keep your guard up. Crossing boundaries when it comes to affection is a lot like the analogy of boiling a frog. If you drop the frog into hot water it will hop out. But if you slowly raise the temperature of the water the frog is in, it doesn't notice.
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Orillia, Ont., Canada
Posts: 165
I think that while your husband's behaviour might be quite understandable, that hardly makes it excusable. It is hard to imagine any couple so perfect that they would not benefit from couples' therapy, but the situation which you describe basically screams out for it. I do wish you the best of luck, actually wish it for your whole family, but it is a fixable situation that should be fixed. Again, all the best to you, rick
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 23
Thanks for sharing your experience Mracoa, interesting to hear what goes on inside the head of a child of an alcoholic.
He tries to be affectionate with me but it took him years to learn. And he's still not up to the level of "normal" people. But I don't understand how sometime after talking on the phone with a friend he hasn't seen in a long time, he can say "I love you" when ending it, but he can't say it to his kids. He will joke and say, that's cause they said it first, but still, he said it.
As far as intimacy, he is after me 24/7. I've wondered if that's genetic, his dad had 11 kids,or if that's just another coping mechanism. His brothers all cheated on their wives constantly. But just talking about my feelings, when I'm down or worried, is just not gonna happen.
But what you said about your wife, sometimes I've almost felt like doing something like that so he would come out of that comfort zone too. When I told him he takes me for granted when I was angry one time, and that he better be glad I don't cheat, he said " I know, I see how men look at you", which tells me feels something about it, and I know he would be just like you, devastated if I did. So I can't...
But I think I'm going to have to, as you said, fight for it, cause something has to change...
He tries to be affectionate with me but it took him years to learn. And he's still not up to the level of "normal" people. But I don't understand how sometime after talking on the phone with a friend he hasn't seen in a long time, he can say "I love you" when ending it, but he can't say it to his kids. He will joke and say, that's cause they said it first, but still, he said it.
As far as intimacy, he is after me 24/7. I've wondered if that's genetic, his dad had 11 kids,or if that's just another coping mechanism. His brothers all cheated on their wives constantly. But just talking about my feelings, when I'm down or worried, is just not gonna happen.
But what you said about your wife, sometimes I've almost felt like doing something like that so he would come out of that comfort zone too. When I told him he takes me for granted when I was angry one time, and that he better be glad I don't cheat, he said " I know, I see how men look at you", which tells me feels something about it, and I know he would be just like you, devastated if I did. So I can't...
But I think I'm going to have to, as you said, fight for it, cause something has to change...
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,437
Yes fight for your marriage. I think you are wise to attend Alanon, it will be helpful but it does take a while at the group till you start to benefit so don't give up too soon. As far as doing something to get his attention, two wrongs never make a right so choose wisely.
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,437
We have compiled some books that were helpful for us that you might enjoy, if you haven't seen this sticky thread already
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...oks-acoas.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...oks-acoas.html
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 23
Thanks Kialua, I will check it out :-)
And I agree two wrongs don't make aright, and I worked hard to be married this long. He would never hurt me like that and I feel the same about him. I won't throw our marriage away because I know under that shell he's good man :-)
And I agree two wrongs don't make aright, and I worked hard to be married this long. He would never hurt me like that and I feel the same about him. I won't throw our marriage away because I know under that shell he's good man :-)
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 179
A little more insight for you.
I'm currently struggling with the concept that if you want something out of the marriage you need to put it into the marriage.
I read something that I found quite profound;
"Most people get married believing a myth; that marriage is a beautiful box
full of all the things they have longed for: companionship, romance, sexual
fulfillment, intimacy, friendship, laughter, financial security.
The truth is that marriage, at the start, is an empty box. You must put some things into it before you can take anything out of it.
There is no love in marriage; love is in people, and people put it into their marriage. There is no romance in marriage; people have to put it into their relationship.
A couple must discern what things work to improve their relationship and form
the habits of communicating, giving, sacrificing, sharing, loving, touching,
serving, and praising. In other words, keeping the box full. If you take
out more than you put in, the box will always be empty!"
As an ACOA I've always only put into the box when I've expected to get something of equal or better value out. Putting things into the box without expecting anything in return was just not in me. The thought never occurred to me that I should. The parental relationship with an alcoholic teaches disappointment. You don't do nice just to do nice. you do nice to get what you need or want. It's all about the manipulation. There is lots of manipulation in an alcoholic home. And I brought those traits into adulthood.
I now see that I need to risk putting things into that box, and not expect things in return. I need to trust that as long as I keep the box full, what I need is in there. I need to risk the hurt that my wife may not appreciate what I put in. She may take more out than I can put in and she may not put in what I need (or worse, betray me again). If I don't take that risk, I doom our relationship. If I take that risk, I might be hurt (I was hurt over and over as a kid, so this fear is intense and real). But I also might help my relationship become something beautiful for both my wife and I.
First I had to realize what I was holding back and understanding why. Now I need to overcome my fear and mistrust. It's very difficult and I'm doing better, but far from healthy. I'm noticing when I'm being manipulative, I'm apologizing when I see it. I'm taking more time to just hold her. I'm still having trouble verbalizing. Saying tender and loving things feels phony to me, and I don't want to be phony.
I'm currently struggling with the concept that if you want something out of the marriage you need to put it into the marriage.
I read something that I found quite profound;
"Most people get married believing a myth; that marriage is a beautiful box
full of all the things they have longed for: companionship, romance, sexual
fulfillment, intimacy, friendship, laughter, financial security.
The truth is that marriage, at the start, is an empty box. You must put some things into it before you can take anything out of it.
There is no love in marriage; love is in people, and people put it into their marriage. There is no romance in marriage; people have to put it into their relationship.
A couple must discern what things work to improve their relationship and form
the habits of communicating, giving, sacrificing, sharing, loving, touching,
serving, and praising. In other words, keeping the box full. If you take
out more than you put in, the box will always be empty!"
As an ACOA I've always only put into the box when I've expected to get something of equal or better value out. Putting things into the box without expecting anything in return was just not in me. The thought never occurred to me that I should. The parental relationship with an alcoholic teaches disappointment. You don't do nice just to do nice. you do nice to get what you need or want. It's all about the manipulation. There is lots of manipulation in an alcoholic home. And I brought those traits into adulthood.
I now see that I need to risk putting things into that box, and not expect things in return. I need to trust that as long as I keep the box full, what I need is in there. I need to risk the hurt that my wife may not appreciate what I put in. She may take more out than I can put in and she may not put in what I need (or worse, betray me again). If I don't take that risk, I doom our relationship. If I take that risk, I might be hurt (I was hurt over and over as a kid, so this fear is intense and real). But I also might help my relationship become something beautiful for both my wife and I.
First I had to realize what I was holding back and understanding why. Now I need to overcome my fear and mistrust. It's very difficult and I'm doing better, but far from healthy. I'm noticing when I'm being manipulative, I'm apologizing when I see it. I'm taking more time to just hold her. I'm still having trouble verbalizing. Saying tender and loving things feels phony to me, and I don't want to be phony.
Co-dependant Control Freak
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 85
I think my husband is a little similar. Although without the alcohol issues, his father would get angry and abusive.
DH has two sons from previous marriages and I have my daughter.
The problem is that he didnt have a father that taught him HOW to behave as a good father figure. It isnt that he doesnt love them, but he was never taught how to show it. Our problem comes in when the boys needed disciplinary actions. DH just couldnt do it. To him, getting angry means losing control. He was never taught how to discipline without the violence as a part of it.
My daughter loves him, and they have become close over the last few years. But again, he doesnt know what he is supposed to do with the emoitions, how they are supposed to translate into actions.
I just keep reminding myself of that. coming from an abusive childhood myself, there are things I am deficient in because it wasnt something that was taught in my family. Forgiveness is where I am deficient. If there was a problem, it was ignored, instead of dealt with and forgiven.
Just keep that in mind, and at his age, it is hard to learn what to do with things you never knew before.
DH has two sons from previous marriages and I have my daughter.
The problem is that he didnt have a father that taught him HOW to behave as a good father figure. It isnt that he doesnt love them, but he was never taught how to show it. Our problem comes in when the boys needed disciplinary actions. DH just couldnt do it. To him, getting angry means losing control. He was never taught how to discipline without the violence as a part of it.
My daughter loves him, and they have become close over the last few years. But again, he doesnt know what he is supposed to do with the emoitions, how they are supposed to translate into actions.
I just keep reminding myself of that. coming from an abusive childhood myself, there are things I am deficient in because it wasnt something that was taught in my family. Forgiveness is where I am deficient. If there was a problem, it was ignored, instead of dealt with and forgiven.
Just keep that in mind, and at his age, it is hard to learn what to do with things you never knew before.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by Mracoa 
As an ACOA I've always only put into the box when I've expected to get something of equal or better value out. Putting things into the box without expecting anything in return was just not in me. The thought never occurred to me that I should. The parental relationship with an alcoholic teaches disappointment. You don't do nice just to do nice. you do nice to get what you need or want. It's all about the manipulation. There is lots of manipulation in an alcoholic home. And I brought those traits into adulthood.
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 42
Hi Slm65, there is a book called 'Struggle for Intimacy' by Janet Woititz, it may explained your husband's detached behaviour.
My acoa husband is not emotionally detached or anything like that. He has another acoa trait (the need to rescue others) that caused so much
problem in our marriage two and half years ago. I was this close to leaving him.
Since then, he has managed to move on, in fact he behaves as if it never even happened but I am still struggling. Im so messed up... maybe I need therapy
My acoa husband is not emotionally detached or anything like that. He has another acoa trait (the need to rescue others) that caused so much
problem in our marriage two and half years ago. I was this close to leaving him.
Since then, he has managed to move on, in fact he behaves as if it never even happened but I am still struggling. Im so messed up... maybe I need therapy
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 23
Thanks SLady,
I didn't realize that was a trait of ACOA, but that makes sense, he probably had to "rescue" his parents or younger siblings. Either way, growing up that way seems to mess them up.
My husband frustrates me so much sometimes, like now. Our youngest son is about to make some serious mistakes with his life. I try to talk to him, but some times young men don't want to hear moms opinion, and I have to respect that he's 23, so technically a man, although immature. But my husband, who he really looks up to will not say anything, just that he's grown. My son looks up to him and would listen I believe, but even if not, at least he could say he tried. It's not some volatile situation, just guide your kid! Earlier today, he just spent a whole hour at least helping a friend that needed advice, with the same dumb problem...
I didn't realize that was a trait of ACOA, but that makes sense, he probably had to "rescue" his parents or younger siblings. Either way, growing up that way seems to mess them up.
My husband frustrates me so much sometimes, like now. Our youngest son is about to make some serious mistakes with his life. I try to talk to him, but some times young men don't want to hear moms opinion, and I have to respect that he's 23, so technically a man, although immature. But my husband, who he really looks up to will not say anything, just that he's grown. My son looks up to him and would listen I believe, but even if not, at least he could say he tried. It's not some volatile situation, just guide your kid! Earlier today, he just spent a whole hour at least helping a friend that needed advice, with the same dumb problem...
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,437
Originally Posted by Slm65
Thanks SLady,
I didn't realize that was a trait of ACOA, but that makes sense, he probably had to "rescue" his parents or younger siblings.
I didn't realize that was a trait of ACOA, but that makes sense, he probably had to "rescue" his parents or younger siblings.
Here is an interesting thread that lays out some more of the characteristics of Adult Children of Alcoholics.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-children.html
13 Characteristics of Adult Children
1. Adult children of alcoholics guess at what normal behavior is.
2. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty following a project through from beginning to end.
3. Adult children of alcoholics lie when it would be just as easy to tell the truth.
4. Adult children of alcoholics judge themselves without mercy.
5. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty having fun.
6. Adult children of alcoholics take themselves very seriously.
7. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty with intimate relationships.
8. Adult children of alcoholics overreact to changes over which they have no control.
9. Adult children of alcoholics constantly seek approval and affirmation.
10. Adult children of alcoholics usually feel that they are different from other people.
11. Adult children of alcoholics are super responsible or super irresponsible.
12. Adult children of alcoholics are extremely loyal, even in the face of evidence that the loyalty is undeserved.
13. Adult children of alcoholics are impulsive. They tend to lock themselves into a course of action without giving serious consideration to alternative behaviors or possible consequences. This impulsively leads to confusion, self-loathing and loss of control over their environment. In addition, they spend an excessive amount of energy cleaning up the mess.
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