Crazed

Step 5: "Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs."

Why in recovery (Al anon OR AA) does a person go through step 5 with a sponsor and not their mate/husband/wife? Wouldn't this seem like a logical thing to do with your mate/husband/wife?

Not to take anything away from the bond with a sponsor, but aren't they relatively strangers when compared to a mate/husband/wife?

The statement has been made that "We are only as sick as our secrets." If the exact nature of your wrongs are admitted to God, ourselves and our sponsors," but not our mates/husbands/wifes, then aren't they still secrets which would keep us sick?

Crazed

I ask merely out of curiousity and to gain viewpoints other than my own - in no way to challenge the steps

MsPINKAcres

For me - working this step 5 with a sponsor and not someone closing enmeshed in my emotional life - kept me from embellishing, justifying and sugar-coating the story

I was able to be 100% truthful and not be judged.

I needed to clean my heart soul and mind of past behaviors, thoughts and secrets.
I needed a safe place - a person's spouse is not always a safe place - it is very common when feelings are hurt, arguements happen - things that revealed in a 5th step could be thrown back at someone just to cause pain.

For me, that's why I understand the necessity of 5th step work to be done with a trusted sponsor.

Just my e, s, & h - please take what you like and leave the rest

pink hugs

LexieCat

A spouse/partner is too close to the situation. Nothing prohibits you from sharing anything you want to share with a spouse/partner, but remember, some of those "wrongs" might be hurtful to them.

The idea of sharing your deepest, darkest wrongs with someone outside of the relationship is, in part, to get helpful feedback, too. A partner might be more concerned with your feelings than with giving objective feedback.

The other person doesn't need to be a sponsor, though. Could be a therapist, could be a clergy person. If you have a sponsor guiding you though the Steps, though (which is recommended), it makes sense to share it with that person, since the information may impact how you approach some of the later Steps.

Florence

What was explained to me, also, is that it's not a good idea to set up a "recovery accountability" relationship with a friend or family member because it breeds codependency. A sponsor is not a stranger, a sponsor is a recovery guide from someone who's been there. Boundaries are supposed to be in place. For addicts and their immediate families, I would suspect that boundaries get real fuzzy.

Ultimately I think as friends and family we sometimes fantasize about the tearful, heartfelt apology, and I think we need to get real comfortable with managing our expectations away from getting healed by the people who hurt us.

whiskeyman

and it is always easier for someone outside your circle to see your patterns of behaviour

Crazed

Thanks for the viewpoints - it makes sense.

I would think that ones mate/wife/husband would be much better at identifying patterns, as they have generally lived around them for years.

AnvilheadII

the purpose is to share what hopefully was a very thorough inventory of ourselves, being forthright and honest about our shortcomings and those "secrets" we've kept hidden. we choose someone who understands the process and our intent and who can provide some impartial feedback. and we make SURE that nothing we share will bring any HARM to our chosen 5th step partner.

they are our spouse, not our priest,
our mate, not our therapist.

FireSprite

I think sometimes it's exactly the opposite - hard to see the pattern when you're enmeshed in it because you are essentially part of it. Like it's easier to see the way out of the maze when you're hovering above it.... harder when you're actually walking through the labyrinth.

MsPINKAcres

^^^^great analogy!!!
Thanks !!!

Florence

Consider what most of these relationships actually look like. Is it really appropriate for an addict to be expected to confess their inventory of wrongdoings to their enmeshed, codependent partners?

Crazed

If there would ever be a chance of recovery for the relationship, I would think yes. Just like I would tell her of my sick codependent inventory. Otherwise, isn't just presenting our good to our mates/husbands/wives pretty contrary to a healthy relationship, i.e. pretty fake? And contrary to the principles of recovery?

As a trivial example, lets say all signs pointed to alcoholic lying to me about whereabouts last Sunday. I would rather her tell me so I could process and work towards forgiveness, vs. always wonder, and harbor resentments because deep down inside I knew she lied. Wouldn't this be healthier for recovery, and also the relationship? How would telling her sponsor/therapist help?

Or am I confusing Step 5 with Step 9???

Crazed

Again - thanks for the insight. This has been a question I've had for a long time.

Florence

In this example, I'm saying someone who is lying to you isn't working a good program, and probably isn't a great person. Having a good relationship is about more than admitting lies, it's about being able to trust that someone is where they say they are, and if not, that this is an exception, not a rule, and they'd better have a good reason for lying to me like they were actually out buying my birthday present and didn't want to ruin the surprise. Not that they went missing because they were out in active addiction or sneaking around with other people, or WHATEVER.

Needing your alcoholic partner to admit something you already know to be true is codependency in action. Forgiveness is about living your life no matter what she's done in the past.

AnvilheadII

your thinking about what is healthy in and for a relationship is kinda skewed there, Crazed. you're talking enmeshment, where there are no boundaries, no buffers, total fusion. that you WANT to tell your now absent partner your sick secrets is VERY revealing.

i suggest the BEST way for you to understand the process of the 12 steps would be to do them yourself, in order, as written. otherwise it's like trying to speculate what it must feel like to jump out of a perfectly good airplane (with a parachute), or what a perfectly cooked steak tastes like....

laurie6781

No because there is more than just step 4 and 5. There is an amends step Step 9.

As Anvil said. Go to Alanon, get yourself an Alanon sponsor and WORK YOUR OWN STEPS with your sponsor.

Then and only then will you start to see the ramifications of working an entire 12 Step Program.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

AyeRobot

Yes, I think you're confusing Step 5 with Step 9. Good spot!

Crazed

I agree. For me easy to say- tough to do. Maybe impossible.

For clarification - I used "me" as an example, but I am talking generally about any partner in a relationship with addiction and codependency. I perhaps placed my example in incorrect context, but this is not how I feel about my current situation.

dandylion

Dear Crazed, as we both remember from a recent thread on this very subject---this subject- "amends'; "apologies";"forgiveness--or not", etc... seems to trigger the deepest fears inside us. As everyone knows, by now---it is an enormous sticky wicket for me (LOL).
I am not trying to stir-up any "trouble" again, but I do UNDERSTAND why all the emotion.For just about anyone on this forum there has been enough pain and abuse to tear relationships and families asunder. Personally, I usually guard against even remembering some of the horror scenes--for my own good. Some people even have PSTD from the experiences. So many desire to believe that the fractured relationships can become healthy and happy and full of trust again---and have difficulty picturing what they so strongly desire. I think this is why so many dreams are filled with the tearful, heart-felt apologies. RIGHT OR WRONG I understand that this exists in the minds and hearts of the walking wounded.

Would all those who--at least--UNDERSTAND the feelings--please raise your hand. (LOL).

sincerely, a very tearful dandylion