guiltyparty

Today was my first AA meeting after nearly 20 years of literal self destruction.

I have no complaints about the group, the meeting, or my treatment there.

However, I must still ask the question... I am an Atheist, and it's not that I want to change how their members or organization conduct business, and find success, but how do others deal with a faith based system, when you have no faith?

DesperadoBlond

Hi Guiltparty!

I got sober with the help of AA 5 months and one week ago. I am in the program today.

As for your question: I had the exact same question as you. I too considered myself an absolute hard core atheist and I was worried that I was going to be talked into/forced into adhering to organized religion. I was wrong in having that fear.

The only thing that has been asked of me, in terms of religion/spirituality is: the willingness to be open to the idea that there is a power greater than myself.

I was told that if I can't do that, then I should try to consider the group (in the meeting) a power, in my life, that is greater than me alone.

Five months in, I am DEFINITELY not adhering to any organized religion. They are not my cup of tea, and that is totally fine I am told. I do "believe" in a power greater than me though. I don't know who or what he/she/it is like, but it's a great relief to manage to believe in a higher power. For me the great bonus in this all is that I get to turn over the things that are out of my control, in life, to this higher power.

So, don't worry. Just go to meetings and find a sponsor and everything will work out! Congrats on getting started on your new life!

guiltyparty

Thanks, Desperado...

bigsombrero

Hey guilty - first off congrats on getting back on the wagon with recovery.

I use AA from time to time, I'm just over 9 months sober. I am quite anti-religion, one could say. I have wrestled with it in my head, tried to find a way around it, tried to talk myself into the whole "substitute-spirituality-for-Jesus" stuff...and it just doesn't work. I've given up on pretending AA isn't a religious organization. It is. At the very least it encourages religion, at the very most it's a thinly veiled religious organization.

That said, when it comes to my sobriety I can't worry about that. I just tune out and instead try and "take the good, leave the God". It's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, I'll tell you that. The tools I learned from AA and the peer support I got in the early goings made it all worthwhile. The religion thing would be an easy excuse for me to get out of there, but that's the alcoholic talking. I'd stick with it if I were you. Once you feel more confident and steady on your feet then you can look for alternatives. If you stay sober with the help of AA that's all that matters!

Good luck!

Ptcapote

Hey guilty, agree completely with what BigSombreo says above. I am not an atheist, per se, but I am definitely NOT a fan of organized religion. AA does ask you to suspend belief and turn yourself over to a Higher Power which is also something I struggle with as I am a bit more of a believer in personal responsibility. HOWEVER, the tools I am learning in AA have been invaluable and I have never had the religious aspect shoved down my throat. If you can substitute "spiritual" for religious, great. If not, then most AA groups will tell you to take what is valuable and of use to you and leave the rest. You don't have to "buy the farm" so to speak. Also, I say this a lot but different groups have different feel to them so I suggest you try a few before choosing your home group or the meetings you most regularly want to attend. A lot of folks in my group are atheists.

In either case, outside assistance and support have been huge for me and AA is a lifesaver. Good luck to you and congrats on your achievements so far!

tomsteve

there is a chapter in the bib book titled "we agnostics." i highly suggest reading it.

"but how do others deal with a faith based system, when you have no faith?"

im thinkin you just may have faith without realizing it, faith that something can help you stop drinking. if ya didnt, i dont think you would have went to a meeting. just asking the question is awesome. it tells me you want help and are open minded and willing to learn and look at things from a different perspective.

DesperadoBlond

You may call AA a religious organization or not.

I would never adhere to organized religion. The beauty of AA is that I don't have to.

All my fears about having to join the Christian church were taken away when I read step 3: Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood him.

My God/Higher Power has nothing to do with Christianity/Islam or any other organized religion.

2granddaughters

I have slowly developed faith over the years. Faith. in A "God, as we understood Him".

Read the chapter in The Big Book "To the Agnostic"

This is about change if you want it.

All the best.

Bob R

shauninspain

Like you I am not a believer. At least not in any organized relegious view of God. I guess I would be an agnostic.

Really it comes down to the willingness to believe in a Power Greater than Yourself. For some people that is the group itself, or the fellowship of AA. Some people think of the power of the sea, or the universe etc. I could never go with any of that, however. For me it had to be something I could see and touch. something I could speak to. Therefore I went with the group as my HP. The experience, strength and hope found within a group of recovering alcoholics is huge. It´s far more powerful that I could ever be.

Or you could just use the word GOD as Good Orderly Direction.

visch1

Hi and welcome. A lot of identification with the above posts. I was never and am not today a religious person, but I call my higher power Mother Nature. For me it’s worked for over 30 years. It might be an option for some to adopt another higher power from another group besides Christianity. Moslem, Hindu, Buddhist etc. A good sponsor, especially in the early part of sobriety I would say has a look of being a higher power to many but be careful of that. It’s interesting how many of us during our drinking days uttered “Oh my God, God help me etc.” How soon we forget! It’s sort of like not wanting to be seen at an AA meeting after causing years of public humiliation. BE WELL

BadCompany

there is a particular etiquette for the God stuff in AA that is sometimes hard to understand. The AA program has God stuff. No getting around that. It is yours to work out. You do not have to do what I do. I share what I do so you can decide for yourself if what I do is something you think will work for you. You are free to take some of it, all of it or ignore all if you wish. The individual is free to do as he or she needs/wants to and no one can legitametly tell them to do something otherwise. It is your responsibility to come to terms with the spiritual stuff, however you decide to do that.

MustLoveCoffee

I am more of an agnostic myself. The way it was explained to me, is that you don't have to believe in God, you just can't believe that you're God. The idea is that many alcoholics tend to be "puppet masters" trying to pull at all of the strings of all of the people around them and trying to "create their own universe" in which things are the way that they want them. This act of trying to control your environment and other people, in addition to being quite selfish, causes a lot of undue stress on the alcoholic since you cannot obviously control the world around you. Yes, you can make change, but you cannot control.

The GOD part is about realizing that you're not in control, and to give up trying to be, at least in part. The lady that is my contact at AA (though I don't think she's my sponsor) told me to think of yourself standing in front of an ocean and trying to hold back the waves. You simply can't do it. So the ocean is a power greater than you. That's really all you need, at least to start, is the realization that you're not in control.

I tend to think of the serenity prayer as a mantra that reminds me to give up that overwhelming (at times) urge to control. Just like that SNL skit where the guy looks in the mirror and says "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and gosh darn it, people like me!" It helps me remember that I'm not in control, but that doesn't give me the right to abandon people who I could help, but ultimately they are not my responsibility.

I've only been going a couple weeks, so hopefully my newbie experience helps!

bbthumper

You attended an AA meeting for help. Is that not a form of faith in something other than yourself? A group of folks who have accomplished something that you could not on your own have something that you need. Start with that. Set the religious stuff aside.

Michael66

That sounds pragmatic.

I'd also encourage Journey40 and others though to remember the gift of sobriety that AA brings to people. It seems a little sad to embrace the AA model of a higher power or God when in most need but then to drift away after the immediate need has passed.

FlyerFan

Read the Big Book, there is a chapter devoted to agnostics and atheists.

HitRockBottom70

This chapter did not make me want to be a part of AA. I still find it kinda offensive as an agnostic. Basically saying sure its ok not to believe in God, when we are done, you will. It actually had the opposite effect when I first quit and it was suggested I read it.

That said, I was 10 month sober and realized I needed more help and in person support from people who understand what I am going through, so I am giving AA a shot.

GuiltyParty,
"How do you deal with a faith base system, when you have no faith"
I am not sure it's possible. But really question yourself about this. Being atheist, do you really have no faith at all. I ask because I too had similar issues. The "G" word made me recoil. I do realize I have faith though... Faith in myself, faith that if I put the my energy out there, it works within some bigger system. I do not see this system as "God". I think if they used the term "higher power of your understanding" instead of "God" it would be much easier to read and sit through meetings without questioning the basic tenets which I believe are very good and can help me and many others like us heal. I also understand it is a heck of a lot less wordy to say god, and many people mean "higher power of your understanding" when they say it or write it.

Another option is AVRT. You can check it out on the secular forums. There is also a secular AA forum.

Stick around, and know that you can quit. There is so much wisdom on this site. Also keep in mind "take what you need and leave the rest".

Best of luck to you.

soberlicious

I agree with HRB. I felt the same way about that chapter. That said, there are many atheists who are able to successfully apply the 12 steps to their lives. It may take a little doing to find the right group, but it can be done.

shockozulu

There is a great forum here under Secular 12 steps. I just discussed this in talking about my third step over there. I hope you join us.

Wastinglife

Keep in mind, that the AA doctrine/big book was created in the 1930's when religion was woven in the fabric of most parts of a conservative society. The God references in AA today are a product of it's history and not as literal as you may think.

Coldfusion

The reason I joined SR was to discuss this very issue. In addition to the secular forums, please check out the other twelve-step forums--you will see that challenges with the concept of "higher power" is not limited to we agnostics.