Can anyone help me understand
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 458
Can anyone help me understand
Hi. My ex girlfriend is an alcoholic. We were together for 13 years, some really good, some really bad. She has been on a severe downward spiral, which last week resulted in her landing in jail, then sentenced to rehab. She has 4 DUIs, and once out of rehab may have to go back to jail depending on the outcome of her 4th DUI. This week she lost her career of 15 years (high paying VP and very successful), her teenage daughters moved out, lost her car, and her license most likely for life. I am working on my own issues, and my path has me learning about this disease that has taken someone whom I love dearly away from me.
I have always begged her to come to me if she was struggling, wanted to drink, etc. We called it "getting squirrelly." I vowed to be as supported as I could, would reserve judgement, etc. In the 13 years, I believe she called me twice. She has always told me I would not understand, because I am not an alcoholic.
So why would I not understand? What prompts one to drink, ignoring any and all consequences. For example, her 3rd DUI was 2 months ago. Her license was suspended, she was in IOP and on probation from work. Stayed sober for 30 days. Then for the past few weeks she has been drinking. She was dismissed from IOP. She has no license, and continued to drink and drive (she always drinks WHILE driving, i.e. vodka drinks in center console). She finally got arrested on Easter morning, 2 days before her court hearing. Why would one ignore all consequences? She is an educated and intelligent woman.
Is it a severe obsession with the craving that must be met? Is it the physical feeling of the alcohol? Does it provide a feeling of escape and serenity? Is it painful mental stress that is somehow helped with alcohol? Is it the rebellion to what is expected? Before my EX moved out, her drinking was primarily limited to my out of town trips (which were often). If i had trips 2 months apart, she could be sober for 2 months. If they were two weeks apart, she would be sober for two weeks. I sometimes thought her drinking was a rebellion, like in a parent-child relationship. But once she moved out in Nov, the proverbial wheels came off the cart.
I have been learning about alcoholism as a disease, vs alcoholism as a behavioral choice. Both camps have their positive and negative points. As an engineer by education, I try to apply logic, but I know alcoholism is illogical. I do believe that alcoholism is a disease.
I know this is an age old question, with no single simple answer. I am just trying to get perspective from alcoholics in or not in recovery. If anyone can help me understand, I would be grateful.
I have always begged her to come to me if she was struggling, wanted to drink, etc. We called it "getting squirrelly." I vowed to be as supported as I could, would reserve judgement, etc. In the 13 years, I believe she called me twice. She has always told me I would not understand, because I am not an alcoholic.
So why would I not understand? What prompts one to drink, ignoring any and all consequences. For example, her 3rd DUI was 2 months ago. Her license was suspended, she was in IOP and on probation from work. Stayed sober for 30 days. Then for the past few weeks she has been drinking. She was dismissed from IOP. She has no license, and continued to drink and drive (she always drinks WHILE driving, i.e. vodka drinks in center console). She finally got arrested on Easter morning, 2 days before her court hearing. Why would one ignore all consequences? She is an educated and intelligent woman.
Is it a severe obsession with the craving that must be met? Is it the physical feeling of the alcohol? Does it provide a feeling of escape and serenity? Is it painful mental stress that is somehow helped with alcohol? Is it the rebellion to what is expected? Before my EX moved out, her drinking was primarily limited to my out of town trips (which were often). If i had trips 2 months apart, she could be sober for 2 months. If they were two weeks apart, she would be sober for two weeks. I sometimes thought her drinking was a rebellion, like in a parent-child relationship. But once she moved out in Nov, the proverbial wheels came off the cart.
I have been learning about alcoholism as a disease, vs alcoholism as a behavioral choice. Both camps have their positive and negative points. As an engineer by education, I try to apply logic, but I know alcoholism is illogical. I do believe that alcoholism is a disease.
I know this is an age old question, with no single simple answer. I am just trying to get perspective from alcoholics in or not in recovery. If anyone can help me understand, I would be grateful.
All is Change
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,284
''I try to apply logic, but I know alcoholism is illogical.'' - that's right. The eternal paradox. The alcoholic also suffers from a growing awareness of this paradox which paradoxically accompanies the progression of the disease making it increasingly difficult to live with. There, in the end are two choices, to go sane or to go insane and or die. The going sane part starts with stopping drinking. Then comes a period of learning to deal with whatever reality one has. This part of the journey is a real ripsnorting mindtrip.
Do you attend Al Anon? I think that is one proven path that will help all concerned.
Do you attend Al Anon? I think that is one proven path that will help all concerned.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 458
I have been attending Alanon regularly since November. I helps me deal and learn about "me," but I am also trying to learn about "her." I think i am still in the denial part of grieving the loss of her, accompanied by sadness. I am afraid that i will eventually get angry. Perhaps the more I understand about her struggle, the easier it will be for me to let go of the anger.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,777
Originally Posted by Crazed 
Hi. My ex girlfriend is an alcoholic. We were together for 13 years, some really good, some really bad. She has been on a severe downward spiral, which last week resulted in her landing in jail, then sentenced to rehab. She has 4 DUIs, and once out of rehab may have to go back to jail depending on the outcome of her 4th DUI. This week she lost her career of 15 years (high paying VP and very successful), her teenage daughters moved out, lost her car, and her license most likely for life. I am working on my own issues, and my path has me learning about this disease that has taken someone whom I love dearly away from me.
I have always begged her to come to me if she was struggling, wanted to drink, etc. We called it "getting squirrelly." I vowed to be as supported as I could, would reserve judgement, etc. In the 13 years, I believe she called me twice. She has always told me I would not understand, because I am not an alcoholic.
So why would I not understand? What prompts one to drink, ignoring any and all consequences. For example, her 3rd DUI was 2 months ago. Her license was suspended, she was in IOP and on probation from work. Stayed sober for 30 days. Then for the past few weeks she has been drinking. She was dismissed from IOP. She has no license, and continued to drink and drive (she always drinks WHILE driving, i.e. vodka drinks in center console). She finally got arrested on Easter morning, 2 days before her court hearing. Why would one ignore all consequences? She is an educated and intelligent woman.
Is it a severe obsession with the craving that must be met? Is it the physical feeling of the alcohol? Does it provide a feeling of escape and serenity? Is it painful mental stress that is somehow helped with alcohol? Is it the rebellion to what is expected? Before my EX moved out, her drinking was primarily limited to my out of town trips (which were often). If i had trips 2 months apart, she could be sober for 2 months. If they were two weeks apart, she would be sober for two weeks. I sometimes thought her drinking was a rebellion, like in a parent-child relationship. But once she moved out in Nov, the proverbial wheels came off the cart.
I have been learning about alcoholism as a disease, vs alcoholism as a behavioral choice. Both camps have their positive and negative points. As an engineer by education, I try to apply logic, but I know alcoholism is illogical. I do believe that alcoholism is a disease.
I know this is an age old question, with no single simple answer. I am just trying to get perspective from alcoholics in or not in recovery. If anyone can help me understand, I would be grateful.
I have always begged her to come to me if she was struggling, wanted to drink, etc. We called it "getting squirrelly." I vowed to be as supported as I could, would reserve judgement, etc. In the 13 years, I believe she called me twice. She has always told me I would not understand, because I am not an alcoholic.
So why would I not understand? What prompts one to drink, ignoring any and all consequences. For example, her 3rd DUI was 2 months ago. Her license was suspended, she was in IOP and on probation from work. Stayed sober for 30 days. Then for the past few weeks she has been drinking. She was dismissed from IOP. She has no license, and continued to drink and drive (she always drinks WHILE driving, i.e. vodka drinks in center console). She finally got arrested on Easter morning, 2 days before her court hearing. Why would one ignore all consequences? She is an educated and intelligent woman.
Is it a severe obsession with the craving that must be met? Is it the physical feeling of the alcohol? Does it provide a feeling of escape and serenity? Is it painful mental stress that is somehow helped with alcohol? Is it the rebellion to what is expected? Before my EX moved out, her drinking was primarily limited to my out of town trips (which were often). If i had trips 2 months apart, she could be sober for 2 months. If they were two weeks apart, she would be sober for two weeks. I sometimes thought her drinking was a rebellion, like in a parent-child relationship. But once she moved out in Nov, the proverbial wheels came off the cart.
I have been learning about alcoholism as a disease, vs alcoholism as a behavioral choice. Both camps have their positive and negative points. As an engineer by education, I try to apply logic, but I know alcoholism is illogical. I do believe that alcoholism is a disease.
I know this is an age old question, with no single simple answer. I am just trying to get perspective from alcoholics in or not in recovery. If anyone can help me understand, I would be grateful.
What prompts one to drink ignoring any and all consequences? The answer is Alcoholism. There is no real defined answer to this. We alcoholics must hit a bottom that is different for everyone of us. My bottom was the loss of employment. I knew that I needed to stop. It took something drastic to get the sobriety wheels in motion.
Is it a sever obsession with the craving that must be met? Yes, until I was relieved of it.
Is it the physical feeling? Yes, for me.
Does it provide a feeling of escape and serenity? Escape, Yes. Serenity? No, my life had no serenity with Alcohol. I was to drunk or to hungover to experience serenity.
Is it the rebellion to what is expected? IMO No. I had no idea what would happen at any time. Some experiences were good. Some experiences were bad. I was on a self sabotage mission. The mission was a success. I now am pulling all of the pieces back together.
It sounds like your partner played a sober role for you and not for her. She was sober for two months while you were home, and then would drink while you were away. This to me says that she was not getting sober and staying sober for herself. The consequences were not large enough, she had not lost enough, and so continuing on this path was obvious. A person has to want to be sober for themselves. 4 dui's may not be her bottom. She has to want it for herself.
Once again, I am sorry that you are going through this. I hope that you look into getting some help for yourself. Therapy, Al-ANon.... something that will comfort you and educate you with this disease. We are here for you.
I am not certain if I helped you at all. I know that I continued to drink even when all signs pointed to STOP. I am dumbfounded by Alcoholism. What i have now is a understanding of how detrimental Alcohol is to my life. I do not drink it today. I do not want to lose anything else. It could be genetic, enviromental, social, trauma, mental, emotional.....It could be something else entirely different. I know that the damage that alcohol has caused is not worth it to me any longer. I take it one day at a time. Sometimes one minute. I am glad that you found us. Please keep posting.
There is also a family and friends of Alcoholics section. Great info and support. Either way, you have come to the right place.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: My city of ruins...
Posts: 593
As an alcoholic, I can tell you that while active we care only about our next drink. Family, jobs, money, dying loved ones, illness...all take a back seat.
Trying to apply logic to our minds is pointless. There is no logic. I know it is hard to hear that she loves her drink more than you, but right now that is certainly the case.
Until she decides to love herself more than drinking, I'm afraid there is nothing you can do. I hope she gets the help she needs - but some of us don't. I am so grateful that I saw the light at the end of my very dark tunnel and I don't know why some of us are given the gift of sobriety and some are not.
Alcoholism is illogical - cunning, baffling and powerful. Sometime more powerful than our will to live. I always take it seriously when we pray for the still sick and suffering. I was sick and suffering and I know how hard it is to heal. I will specifically think of your girlfriend tonight when our candle is lit.
Wishing you peace and strength...
Trying to apply logic to our minds is pointless. There is no logic. I know it is hard to hear that she loves her drink more than you, but right now that is certainly the case.
Until she decides to love herself more than drinking, I'm afraid there is nothing you can do. I hope she gets the help she needs - but some of us don't. I am so grateful that I saw the light at the end of my very dark tunnel and I don't know why some of us are given the gift of sobriety and some are not.
Alcoholism is illogical - cunning, baffling and powerful. Sometime more powerful than our will to live. I always take it seriously when we pray for the still sick and suffering. I was sick and suffering and I know how hard it is to heal. I will specifically think of your girlfriend tonight when our candle is lit.
Wishing you peace and strength...
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canada. About as far south as you can get
Posts: 4,768
A description of alcoholic thinking ..........
If you are not an alcoholic then no explanation is possible.
If you are an alcoholic then no explanation is necessary.
AA's "The Doctors Opinion" may offer insight you are seeking Big Book Online - the doctor's opinion
Al-Anon will eventually set you straight(er) as time goes along.
All the best.
Bob R
If you are not an alcoholic then no explanation is possible.
If you are an alcoholic then no explanation is necessary.
AA's "The Doctors Opinion" may offer insight you are seeking Big Book Online - the doctor's opinion
Al-Anon will eventually set you straight(er) as time goes along.
All the best.
Bob R
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Mid-Atlantic USA
Posts: 2,441
From what I understand recent addiction research has shown that chronic alcohol use affects the prefrontal cortex of the brain. The prefrontal cortex helps us monitor our behavior, make appropriate decisions and inhibits our impulses. It's also the area of the brain that helps us manage risk and make decisions based on an assessment of risk.
If those areas are impaired and damaged, we make poor decisions, even when sober; we disregard the consequences. Hence, the actions of your ex. Which by the way, are not uncommon when it comes to addicts. Once sober, I believe the preforntal cortex can heal, but it takes time.
BTW, it appears that AA and other 12-step programs inadvertently help to repair those areas of the brain that have been ravaged by alcohol and other drugs. But again, it takes time.
I've added some links if you're interested in further reading.
Neuroscience: Rethinking rehab : Nature News (Thanks to Coldfusion for pointing out this article)
ALCOHOL AND THE PREFRONTAL CORTEX
If those areas are impaired and damaged, we make poor decisions, even when sober; we disregard the consequences. Hence, the actions of your ex. Which by the way, are not uncommon when it comes to addicts. Once sober, I believe the preforntal cortex can heal, but it takes time.
BTW, it appears that AA and other 12-step programs inadvertently help to repair those areas of the brain that have been ravaged by alcohol and other drugs. But again, it takes time.
I've added some links if you're interested in further reading.
Neuroscience: Rethinking rehab : Nature News (Thanks to Coldfusion for pointing out this article)
ALCOHOL AND THE PREFRONTAL CORTEX
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,772
Perhaps post your questions in our friends and family forum for more insight from those who share your problem.Friends and Family of Alcoholics - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information
Been there, done that!
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: London
Posts: 539
For me alcoholism is very simple yet very complexed it is many things to many people because we are all differant no one answer or experience is the same but we all share some common denominators. Yes it is a mental obsession the obsession to drink normaly the obsession to have a few and get away with it the obsession is the reason it's so hard to break the cycle because without the obsession than one would not drink again and never think about it again.
Physical craving yes I would say that once I have a certain amount of drink and the amount really does change don't listen to people saying its one sip or one drink it may be my 5th drink, but there is a point where I can not stop or don't want to stop until iam smashed to pieces.
Disease or behavioural: I would say that my body defiantly breaks down alcohol differant than a normal person it also has a differant effect on me so I would say genetically I may be differant do I think iam suffering from a disease NO.
And of course it's the way alcohol makes us feel that is why we drank in the first place if cheese cake done what alcohol did I would be a cheesecakaholic lol.
What you are trying to seek will lead you around and around in circles and not being alcoholic will make it even harder to understand, all you really need to know is that she can recover and live a great life sober.
God bless.
Physical craving yes I would say that once I have a certain amount of drink and the amount really does change don't listen to people saying its one sip or one drink it may be my 5th drink, but there is a point where I can not stop or don't want to stop until iam smashed to pieces.
Disease or behavioural: I would say that my body defiantly breaks down alcohol differant than a normal person it also has a differant effect on me so I would say genetically I may be differant do I think iam suffering from a disease NO.
And of course it's the way alcohol makes us feel that is why we drank in the first place if cheese cake done what alcohol did I would be a cheesecakaholic lol.
What you are trying to seek will lead you around and around in circles and not being alcoholic will make it even harder to understand, all you really need to know is that she can recover and live a great life sober.
God bless.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,777
Originally Posted by Crazed
Thank you. I have been active in the friends and family forum, as well as Alanon. I thought this forum may give me a different perspective.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Crazed, what kind of different perspective are you looking for? I know we in the F&F of A's forum have really bent over backwards to support you, given our collective experience, strength, and hope. Yet it seems to be for naught.
Maybe try some open AA meetings? Talk with other recovering alcoholics face-to-face? Some of the best advice I've received came straight from the rooms of AA.
And a therapist with an addictions specialty could also be very beneficial right now. Someone who can help you work through your situation in the terms you need, but with the knowledge about addictions you think you lack.
Or maybe, just maybe, you really do understand all this but the real trouble comes with accepting it?
I know I spent many, many months fighting my own urge to refuse acceptance. Because accepting my reality meant accepting a whole lot of painful emotions, and a whole lot of anger. And it meant letting go of a man I loved dearly. And letting go of the dream I had for my marriage, my family.
But LexieCat is spot on in your most recent F&F of A's post. Your life is waiting, and it could be a good one. But as long as you continue to spin your wheels in the mud of addictions, you won't be able to fully enjoy your life and all its riches.
Maybe try some open AA meetings? Talk with other recovering alcoholics face-to-face? Some of the best advice I've received came straight from the rooms of AA.
And a therapist with an addictions specialty could also be very beneficial right now. Someone who can help you work through your situation in the terms you need, but with the knowledge about addictions you think you lack.
Or maybe, just maybe, you really do understand all this but the real trouble comes with accepting it?
I know I spent many, many months fighting my own urge to refuse acceptance. Because accepting my reality meant accepting a whole lot of painful emotions, and a whole lot of anger. And it meant letting go of a man I loved dearly. And letting go of the dream I had for my marriage, my family.
But LexieCat is spot on in your most recent F&F of A's post. Your life is waiting, and it could be a good one. But as long as you continue to spin your wheels in the mud of addictions, you won't be able to fully enjoy your life and all its riches.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,777
Alcoholism is tricky. I know for myself, I wanted to be in control. I thought that because I got sober that I was able to drink again like a normal person would. It was only a matter of time before it progressed into something detrimental. I still decided against my own better judgement that picking up that bottle was alright. I rationalized the drinking. I said that things were situational. I did everything under the sun to control the amount I was drinking, to only the weekends, to buying small bottles, swearing it off forever, admitting myself into rehab, going to therapy. The list goes on and on. I have banned myself from alcohol once again. I am uncertain as to why all this takes place.
I was thinking early about my reaction to Poison Oak. When I was a kid, I ended up tin the hospital due to the severity of the poison oak and what it was doing to my body. I had shots given to me and drugs prescribed to take care of it. Only today ( this morning) do I see that alcohol is like poison oak for me. I would never rub the leaves of poison oak all over my body to get the rash. Why in the hell would i do that? So, why did I keep choosing to drink the poison that cost me my job and put my family into a financial stress? Put my marriage into turmoil? Im baffled. I have a different perspective today. Only time will tell. I only have today. I am grateful to be relieved of the obsession to drink. I am grateful to be alive. Hopefully, your GF will get the help that she needs before it is to late.
I was thinking early about my reaction to Poison Oak. When I was a kid, I ended up tin the hospital due to the severity of the poison oak and what it was doing to my body. I had shots given to me and drugs prescribed to take care of it. Only today ( this morning) do I see that alcohol is like poison oak for me. I would never rub the leaves of poison oak all over my body to get the rash. Why in the hell would i do that? So, why did I keep choosing to drink the poison that cost me my job and put my family into a financial stress? Put my marriage into turmoil? Im baffled. I have a different perspective today. Only time will tell. I only have today. I am grateful to be relieved of the obsession to drink. I am grateful to be alive. Hopefully, your GF will get the help that she needs before it is to late.
Sobriety is Traditional
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Orcas Island, Washington
Posts: 9,066
Originally Posted by deeker
We drank for happiness and became unhappy.
We drank for joy and became miserable.
We drank for sociability and became argumentative.
We drank for sophistication and became obnoxious.
We drank for friendship and made enemies.
We drank for sleep and awakened without rest.
We drank medicinally and acquired health problems.
We drank for relaxation and got the shakes.
We drank for bravery and became afraid.
We drank for confidence and became doubtful.
We drank to make our conversation easier and we slurred our speech.
We drank to feel heavenly and ended up feeling like hell.
We drank to forget and were forever haunted.
We drank for freedom and became slaves.
We drank to erase problems and saw them multiply.
We drank to cope with life and invited death
We drank for happiness and became unhappy.
We drank for joy and became miserable.
We drank for sociability and became argumentative.
We drank for sophistication and became obnoxious.
We drank for friendship and made enemies.
We drank for sleep and awakened without rest.
We drank medicinally and acquired health problems.
We drank for relaxation and got the shakes.
We drank for bravery and became afraid.
We drank for confidence and became doubtful.
We drank to make our conversation easier and we slurred our speech.
We drank to feel heavenly and ended up feeling like hell.
We drank to forget and were forever haunted.
We drank for freedom and became slaves.
We drank to erase problems and saw them multiply.
We drank to cope with life and invited death
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 458
Crazed, what kind of different perspective are you looking for? I know we in the F&F of A's forum have really bent over backwards to support you, given our collective experience, strength, and hope.
I am requesting insight from the point of view from alcoholics, as it may be different than that of friends and families of alcoholics. As my EXAG has told me - you will not understand unless you are an alcoholic. That is why I asked here, since other than a few, I believe most on F&F are not alcoholics.
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