Archangelesk

Hello. This is my first post.

My husband has been disrupting our family for some time. We have two small children. He has a professional degree, but no license yet, is no longer working, but stays at home with the kids. He refers to this as his job, but he never leaves the house. He barely even takes them out into the yard. He does almost no cleaning, no errands, no laundry, no cooking. He often feeds the kids only cheerios and raisins. This last is recent, but as with everything else, seems to be getting worse. On most days when I get home from work he immediately disappears and I do the dinner, bath and bedtime routine alone. Then I clean up the kitchen and do the laundry and jump on my laptop for work. He doesn't see this as inequitable. When he does interface with the me he is often highly changeable - flashing between charming in one moment to belligerent the next. His thinking often seems irrational to me.

He is drinking 3-5 beers a night on most nights. However, many of his difficult behaviors were in place before he did any drinking at all, and it is only within the past few years that he has done more than social drinking, which seems to have made everything worse. He was diagnosed with ADHD and oppositional defiance disorder as a child. He stopped taking his ADHD meds about a year ago and refuses to see his doctor. He denies that he has any issues with either alcohol or mental illness.

I have finally figured out that I am enabling his behavior. I recently started Al-Anon and counseling for myself. Now I am working with his parents to plan an intervention. We are working with a professional counselor.

I am a bit hung up on the dual diagnosis issue. It seems to me that, assuming that we can even break through his denial that we need a mental health evaluation before we can choose the best rehab facility. I can't seem to pin any of the rehab facilities I have talked to down on how their programs address mental health, which seem, in part, to stem from the lack of a diagnosis. I am worried that it is possible that we make this worse if we don't do it correctly or that he might suffer from a mental health issue that would be exacerbated by typical treatment programs. When I mentioned to the intervention counselor that I was considering a facility where they do emergency mental health screening and then refer the patient from there to treatment – and rehab is one of the options – he sent me an email that the team has to talk in person, because if I insist on doing that he will not work with us. He said something about “half measures.”

I am exhausted from spending so much time trying to research resources and call treatment providers on top of everything else. And now I am apparently doing the wrong thing according to someone who seems to have knowledge I need to have any chance of getting my husband’s attention. I would love advice on this issue.

I have done enough reading to know that you will all encourage me to focus on myself, so I want to close by stating that I am laying the groundwork to leave with the children. If he refuses help, then I will end the marriage and do the best I can to co-parent in whatever situation results. But to be comfortable with this decision (or at least as comfortable as I am going to get with divorcing a man that I and my children love very much), I have to be able to look back and know that I did everything I could for my husband and my children’s’ father, before I take this necessary step.

Thank you for your thoughts.

sugarbear1

Please do focus on you. Until your husband is willing to accept that he has a problem, he won't address it.

Hugs & love to you!

Dee74

Hi Archangelesk

I'm sorry for your situation. I'm unsure tho how you'd get your husband into rehab, even if he does fit the metal health and substance abuse criteria, if he doesn;t want to go?

is he a danger to you, to others, or himself?

D

DreamsofSerenity

My XA never made it to rehab so I don't know anything about it. I think you should re-post this in the Friends and Families section as there are a lot of people there who will give you great advice.

Ultimately though, your AH needs to be the one to be in charge of his own recovery. Doing all the research to figure out where he should go to rehab is not your job. I understand the need to try to help him; I gave into it for four years with mine, to no avail. We can not help A's.

Again, try the Friends and Family section, and please keep reading and posting. The support here is really amazing.

Hugs

Archangelesk

I do not belive he meets the requirements for involuntary commitment, no. He very well may not go to rehab. But he will be given a formal choice to do so by a group of his friends and family. If he chooses not to go within one week of that conversation, the consequences will be that I leave him. That may change his perspective, although I am not inordinately hopeful.

Like I said before, one of the ways I am taking care of myself is by making sure that he has this oppurtunity to respond to truth before I exit with the kids. That is something I need to do for my emotional comfort, even if it doesn't result in breaking through to him.

GodsFriend

Greetings from South Florida,

My heart goes out to you. I am the one that is alcoholic and bi-polar. I have been clean and sober on the 20th of May 13 years. My journey led me to places that due to both problems ended up in homelessness, mental hospitals, and numerous overnight stays in jail. Should I drink again I have only 6 feet under to go.

My wife and I said a prayer for you today.

My mother prayed for me the entire time I was going down hill. By God's grace in due time it worked. During that time though I lost my wife and abandoned my children. I am now glad I did. I would have put them through the hell on earth that no one deserves.

I suggest getting a professional interventionist. You can find them on the web. Your husband needs professional help and so do you and the kids.

He may find the gift in AA and church like I did. It is possible he will not. Take care of yourself and the children first and turn him over to God.

I have a new wife and a wonderful relationship with my children. I take my medication and now a useful member of society. I work at an addiction treatment center. I have a heart of gratitude and can never repay what God has given to me.

I have recovered. Not cured but recovered.

God does for us what we can not do for ourselves. Pray, Pray and then pray more. Your husband is loved by him so much and so are you and the children.

Pelican

Welcome to the SR family!

Thank you for taking the time to introduce yourself. I hope you will continue to share as often as needed. We are here to support you.

I do not have personal experience with ADHD or the other described disorder.
I do not have personal experience with intervention.

I do have experience with another type of mood disorder ~ depression.
I do have experience in living with an alcoholic husband (now ex husband).
I also have experience from the other side as I am a recovering alcoholic.

In my personal experience, my mood disorder could not be effectively treated until I had reached extended sobriety. I also needed to begin recovery steps to cope with life on life's terms without alcohol. These measures helped me get healthy enough to start dealing with my depression.

I think that may be what the interventionist is referring to as half measures. If the addiction is not the primary focus of treatment, how can you effectively treat the other mood disorders? Adding alcohol to a mood disorder is like throwing gasoline on a open flame. I know that all the meds I have tried for treatment of my mood disorder have warning labels against using alcohol while taking the medication.

Anna

I hope you continue to focus on yourself and your children.

Hopefully your husband will make a decision to seek support for his addiction.

soberlicious

I agree that someone is not going to quit until they are ready, but I disagree that intervening is always ineffective. Sometimes when someone is confronted with some very tough choices, it does indeed serve as the impetus for change. Saying that interventions or ultimatums never work is just not accurate. I have read stories here on SR where addicted people were very thankful for their families sitting them down and laying everything on the line. Believe you me...I certainly paid attention when there was a real possibility that my children would be taken from me.

No, not everyone responds well, but the process does not fail across the board either.

least

I hope he will seek treatment for both addiction and the mental illness. I also hope for peace of mind for you and your kids. We are always here to listen and support you.

Archangelesk

I tried to follow this suggestion, but my re-post seems to be gone, which I will take as an indication that I should keep this here for now.

Dee74

I moved the entire thread for you

D

Archangelesk

Greetings from much further north!

I am not in the habit of turning down prayers, so thank you. However, I haven't been on speaking terms with god in a long time. But I can adapt your advice to my worldview. I need to turn him over to himself. I am learning a lot about this process and now realize I have lived as a codependent for many years, and that I am determined to recover.

Archangelesk

Thank you. I hear what you are saying. I am concerned that he may suffer from a mood disorder or depression as well - but feel like it is difficult to proceed because we don't really know. From where I stand, he is mentally ill and using alcohol and heavy internet use as coping mechanisms. In considering the diagnostic criteria below, I'd say he is abusing alcohol, not dependent. I suppose I always thought that an alcoholic was someone in category B. That being say, I do know that he functions best when on his ADHD meds and that anphetimines and alcohol are best not mixed, so I certainly think that sobriety is a good idea for him.

I also wonder if there are some mental issues that don't do well in traditional rehabd programs.

Appendix B: DSM-IV-TR Diagnostic Criteria for Alcohol Abuse and Dependence

ALCOHOL ABUSE.

(A) A maladaptive pattern of drinking, leading to clinically significant impairment or distress, as manifested by at least one of the following occurring within a 12-month period:
•
Recurrent use of alcohol resulting in a failure to fulfill major role obligations at work, school, or home (e.g., repeated absences or poor work performance related to alcohol use; alcohol-related absences, suspensions, or expulsions from school; neglect of children or household)

•
Recurrent alcohol use in situations in which it is physically hazardous (e.g., driving an automobile or operating a machine when impaired by alcohol use)

•
Recurrent alcohol-related legal problems (e.g., arrests for alcohol-related disorderly conduct)

•
Continued alcohol use despite having persistent or recurrent social or interpersonal problems caused or exacerbated by the effects of alcohol (e.g., arguments with spouse about consequences of intoxication).


(B) Never met criteria for alcohol dependence.


Go to:

ALCOHOL DEPENDENCE.

(A) A maladaptive pattern of drinking, leading to clinically significant impairment or distress, as manifested by three or more of the following occurring at any time in the same 12-month period:
•
Need for markedly increased amounts of alcohol to achieve intoxication or desired effect; or markedly diminished effect with continued use of the same amount of alcohol

•
The characteristic withdrawal syndrome for alcohol; or drinking (or using a closely related substance) to relieve or avoid withdrawal symptoms

•
Drinking in larger amounts or over a longer period than intended.

•
Persistent desire or one or more unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control drinking

•
Important social, occupational, or recreational activities given up or reduced because of drinking

•
A great deal of time spent in activities necessary to obtain, to use, or to recover from the effects of drinking

•
Continued drinking despite knowledge of having a persistent or recurrent physical or psychological problem that is likely to be caused or exacerbated by drinking.


(B) No duration criterion separately specified, but several dependence criteria must occur repeatedly as specified by duration qualifiers associated with criteria (e.g., “persistent,” “continued”).

Source: Adapted from American Psychiatric Association (APA). Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th Edition, Text Revision. Washington, DC: APA, 2000.

wiscsober

Sometimes we work harder trying to get the alcoholic sober than they themselves. We are just as much powerless over another's disease than they are. Focus on yourself. His recovery/rehab admission is not your responsibility.

Not being trite at all, but have you thought that you might need some kind of therapy for yourself? Maybe some counseling or Al-Anon. Best to you and your family.

Archangelesk

I appreciate this response, thank you. My husband has isolated himself and our intervention will be there first time that he will hear from a united cross-section of his family. I've allowed him to manipulate me for years, and he just turns me in circles, but I plan to try and step back and let other take the lead. At least I hope he walks away having heard words of love and support but also truth. And he is certainly going to know that I am done if he doesn't decide that he wants to embrace treatment.

Which brings me to another question. If he does what I suspect he is going to do, and tells us to go to hell, then I know what to do. File for divorce and for a hearing to have him removed from the marital home. Move out myself with the kids until I can get him out of the house (that's for another post - it is going to be a doozy of a fight). But let's say, by some twist of fate, he does decide to respond. I still feel like he needs to be out of the house for some period of time to figure things out. He needs to be out of my codependent orbit. I just have no idea how to evaluate when and whether he should get to live with us again. I am probably getting ahead of myself. But I am thinking about what I might say to him - you have to leave and you can come back when ____, ______, etc.

Archangelesk

Thank you. I have started both.

This is a funny disease. If he functioned like a normal person and we had a healthy, reciprocal relationship - and he had cancer - not one person would be concerned if I was highly involved in researching treatment options.

The rules that apply here are so foreign to what seems normative when dealing with anyone else. My best friend is overwhelmed and I drop off dinner for her - and I am a good friend. Do the same for my husband and I am enabling him. But, having recently figured this out, I am practicing my new detachment with love skills. Which is difficult, but very freeing. He says something provoking and crazy, and I don't step onto the merry-go-round. I just say, "that's unacceptable." And I walk away. He fails to get out of bed to join me and the kids to go see his grandmother - I just load them up and go.

But we are talking about a very big thing here. I made vows. And if I didn't legally need the divorce process to get this man out of my house in my jurisdiction, I would be very unlikley to formally undo those vows. But I need to. So before I spend the rest of my life focusing on myself and my kids, I think it is morally right that I try to do my best to offer him a shot at trusting everyone who loves him enough to decide he needs help. And I get that maybe he cannot or will not hear us at this time. But maybe it plants a seed.

And even if not, someday I will have to look my sons in the eye and explain. And I want to be able to tell them first, that their mama loved their dad so much that she carefully staged an intervention with his whole family to try and get him help; and second, that once she did that, she loved him enough to give him the dignity of making his own choices. But that she also loved them enough to do everything she was entitled to do by law to protect them if those choices were poor.

DreamsofSerenity

I tried somewhat of an intervention with my XA and it blew up in my face. Granted, I didn't have a professional interventionist but I don't think that would have mattered. He wasn't (and still isn't) anywhere close to giving up his booze.

Then when trying to help my addict brother, I sought out the help of a therapist who specialized in addiction. She told me not to even bother with an intervention because my codependent mother would just undermine the whole thing, which was probably accurate. Instead she redirected me to my own issues. (BTW, my brother is addicted to adderall--amphetamine salts used for ADHD. I'm wondering if this is the med your H stopped taking?)

Anyway, I trust Soberlicious that interventions can work if the circumstances are right. And I totally understand why you want to try something before walking away. Just don't forget about yourself.

Be well

soberlicious

I got to the point that an involuntary placement was necessary. I will tell you that initially, I told everyone to f*ck off, but I will also tell you that now I am eternally grateful for having gotten a second chance with my children. I will not squander that.

Sometimes it does work. I hope that it does. All of you deserve to be free of this.

wiscsober

You are doing well. I see no problem with you lining up an intervention or doing all of the research you can do. That is wonderful, and shows you are a caring and wonderful person. With addiction, ignorance isn't bliss. We need to be informed.

I can not say you are enabling. That's none of my business. From your writings you know what is best.

Still, I would say with any disease or illness a loved one has, we need to detach from. If the cancer victim continues smoking, the diabetic refuses putting down sugars, etc. we need to be looking out for ourselves, our children.