AppleCorp

I asked my wife recently if she thought she should examine and even reduce her 750ml bottle a night pattern. Not a pleasant response. I told her I'm concerned because she's been at that pattern for about 4 or 5 years with rarely a break. My main concern is long term liver stress. She gets tipsy, but not drunk. Only rarely does she go over that amount, usually when a friend is over or at party. No drunk driving, no missed work, no hangovers, no anger or fighting either. She checked with our physician and he said one or two glasses a night was OK (health benefits of A studies) but wouldn't give an no more than limit. So therefore, no drinking problem. As we've been discussing it, I'm sensing some denial or even blame shifting. She's agreed to reducing the volume per day, so that's a start. I'm starting to wonder if I'm making a mountain of a molehill.

least

I'd trust your instincts, not that doctor. A bottle a night is too much for one person to be drinking, and yes, there will be liver damage over the years. I'd suggest she go for blood tests and a good physical to see what damage, if any, drinking has caused her so far.

No, you're not making a mountain out of a molehill. Your wife is drinking too much, plain and simple.

AppleCorp

Least,
Thanks for input.

Sorry to double post from the newcomer's side, but felt this was the more correct subforum. I appreciate everyone's considerate opinion.

LexieCat

The fact that she doesn't get drunk on that amount of wine only tells you she has built up tolerance. Tolerance is not a good thing. My tolerance built way up and then dropped precipitously (I'm a recovered alcoholic).

Not everyone suffers liver damage, but with that amount of alcohol on a daily basis for that long, I wouldn't be surprised if she had some. A simple blood test can screen for elevated liver enzymes.

kasie

Hi AppleCorp,

You're not making a mountain out of a molehill at all. If you've come here, posted and it's something weighing on your mind, it's a problem/issue.

As LexieCat said, it just shows that she's got a tolerance for alcohol. And that's a slippery slope, because it means that it will eventually take more and more drinks to get her to the point where she will say she's had enough for the night. What was once one bottle becomes 1.5, then 2, etc.

Regardless of her liver function, her drinking is affecting you too. That, to me, says there's a problem - whether or not she realises it.

Take care,
K

Hayfmr

I can tell you from personal experience dealing with my AW that she will either quit drinking or it will get worse. I would also ignore her report from the DR. A's are professional liars. She most likely was not honest with the DR if she even asked him. Do you really think she would have been honest with you if the DR had told her that she was drinking too much. My AW started with a little wine at night. Progressed to the point of extended binges on vodka. Tomorrow she is checking into her 5th rehab.

CeciliaV

This is a progressive disease. My AH self-medicated for years with pot, and after quitting, he turned to back to alcohol (he started drinking when he was about 13-14 to escape). I saw the signs for years but ignored them. I'd buy wine for cooking, and it would be gone before I even got to cook with it. Holidays where it was just us at home were always ruined by his drunkenness. He got BLOTTO at a family combo birthday party and told my mom that she was a smartass. The weekend trips to the pub ended with me practically having to carry him home. We did a rare excursion to a friend's party and he drank so much he became an embarrassing mess. I expressed concern about his drinking and then I didn't SEE the drinking anymore...that's when I found vodka bottles hidden around the house. When I worked Saturdays, I'd come home to a shell of a person. The weekend binges turned into multiple day binges which turned into drinking almost every day to drinking every day. Counseling & IOP, then drinking again. Another shot at IOP and drinking again. A different IOP, WHILE still drinking. Then rehab. Then drinking again and back to rehab again.

My dad also has had an issue with alcohol - he always drank, but it got out of hand when he was laid off shortly before retirement. When he got put on medication for high blood pressure, he practically fought with the doctor when he said no drinking and debated to the point where the doc relented a smidgen and said he could maybe have a little. He knew that if my mom saw him drinking, then he'd have hell to pay, because she knew it wasn't good for him medically. Then Mom found water bottles filled with vodka in the house & found out that he'd been filling them from a jug hidden in the trunk of the car.

I'm not trying to be a downer here. I'm just sharing my experiences and what I've seen with my own loved ones. It will get worse if A's don't stop drinking and seek sobriety and recovery.

mattmathews

Exactly! Progressive = It gets worse.

You are on the right track. You've got the idea that your wife has a problem, but you're not sure. Nobody is willing to call it the dreaded "alcoholism." Because that would change the way you and your wife and her doctor think about the problem and it would require action.

Right now: She's not missing work, no major health problems, your relationship seems OK. There's just this nagging sense that something isn't right.

Alcoholism is, simply, the compulsion to drink. Your wife needs that bottle of wine every night. That doesn't make her a bad person, she's not in in control of her desire to drink. Right now, she's satisfied with one bottle, she can probably stop drinking for a day or a week and you'll see that and think "she can quit, so she's not addicted." But the compulsion is always calling and she'll start drinking again. Over time, maybe a year, maybe 5 years, maybe 10 years...over time a bottle a night won't be enough. Maybe she'll decide she likes martini's better than wine. Maybe you'll find a vodka bottle in the trash and wonder when she drank that? That compulsion makes it impossible for her to drink "normally," and over time her drinking will gradually get worse. Sometimes alcoholics start early, but very often the drinking doesn't really start to cause problems until she's in her 40's or 50's--when her body just can't take the abuse anymore.

Maybe she'll start experiencing health problems. High blood pressure, low blood pressure, upset stomachs, acid reflux, weight gain. The doctor will treat each of those things and he'll ask her if she drinks and she'll tell him "Yeah, a couple of glasses of wine a few times a week." The doctor won't dig any deeper, she won't ever tell him the truth. Some people struggle with alcoholism into their 60's and 70's...some people die in the prime of their life. Not from liver disease, but from heart attack or stroke or seizure.

Maybe you'll start to experience the affects of alcoholism. (Alcoholism is a family disease, it affects spouses, parents, children). Maybe you'll believe that something you've done has upset her and caused her to drink. Maybe she'll tell you that there is something about your relationship that makes her want to drink. Maybe you'll pour out those half empty wine and liquor bottles thinking you can control her drinking. Maybe you'll start looking for a way to cure her drinking. If you are willing to seek help...the first thing that people will tell you is that you didn't cause her to drink, you can't control her drinking, and you can't cure her drinking. That's not going to feel like helpful advice, but it is!

Obviously, I'm speaking from my own experience. I've been where you are right now. Many of us share common experiences with the affects of alcoholism. Now that you've found Sober Recovery, the best thing I can tell you is to just remember that even if you're not ready to take action now...if the situation does get worse there are resources available. There is help for your wife, and even if it takes her a a very long time to get to the point where she is willing to seek help, there is also help and support for you.

I can't make you get help for yourself, and you'll find that you can't make your wife get help if she doesn't think she needs help. I came across this website (or one like it) many years before I finally got desperate enough to do something about my wife's alcoholism. I remember a couple of people (back then) saying "I wish I'd done something 5 years sooner, because I wasted those years."

For me, attending Al-Anon meetings has been helpful. It's helped me understand what my wife was and is going through (just because you've stopped drinking, it doesn't mean that you don't still have alcoholic behaviors). More importantly, it's helped me deal with the emotional issues that come with being the spouse of an alcoholic. One of the things we say in Al-anon is that our own changed attitudes and behaviors can aid our spouse in their recovery. Sometimes the impetus for our spouse seeking help may be the changes they see in us.

Taking5

Not only are you on target, drinking is more dangerous for women than for men:

NIAAA Publications

Maybe get your wife to read this and somethimg else will sink in.

AppleCorp

Many thanks again for the kind, supportive, and instructional words. I've watched the gradual progression. It's been so gradual that I really didn't think much of it. The few times the drinking subject has come up, it's usually been the kids expressing anger over another issue and wanting to draw attention to parent imperfection. I even found myself defending the pattern as "not that big a deal". Reading more and being more attuned to situation has caused me to think again.

I'm confused though...
If I didn't cause her to drink, can't control her drinking, and can't cure her drinking; Then what can I do other than share my concern and point her to literature?

SparkleKitty

You can take care of yourself!

fruitymarzipan

Hi there, im a 36 year old professional woman, mother of 2 and my drinking started exactly like that, a bottle of wine a night. Then it reached the point where it wasnt enough, i wasnt getting that nice tipsy feeling because like the others said u build up a tolerance. So I would buy 2 and hide one in the kitchen at the back of a junk cupboard, my husband had no idea i was topping up from another bottle, he wasnt really paying attention to how quickly or not the bottle was going down! I agree with the other person who said your wife probs wasnt honest with her doctor. My hubby is a doctor and im a nurse and a bottle a night is well over national guidelines for weekly safe units. No doctor would have endorsed that, if he did, he needs reporting! I wish you lots of blessings, its difficult for you if she doesnt think she has a problem, i used to tell my husband he was nuts, it was because he's a health freak and doesnt drink, all sorts of excuses but in my heart i knew he was right, and your wife probs does too. x

AppleCorp

fruitymarzipan,
Thanks for the candid response. If I may ask, what was it that caused you to realize there was a problem?

Jazzman

I followed the steps in this post as if my sanity depended on it. It's actually a step by step "how to" instruction manual.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html

fruitymarzipan

My husband! I love him so much, and he kept telling me in a non accusing way, "I love you, im not critisizing you, but im telling you because i love you that your alcohol consumption worries me. I couldnt bare to lose you and I worry your damaging your liver." Its the way he put it i guess. Later on, I think its important too to look at why she drinks as well, It may well just be habit, come home from work, open the wine. For me I had some underlying stuff i should have dealt with. I gave up drink successfully for many years and even reached a time where i could moderate and just have a couple in approriate social situations, Saturday night etc. However I didnt really deal with why I drank, hence i find myself in my 30s now detoxing from painkillers, i got hooked after having an accident 4 years ago. Its crazy! Im day 5 today, but I know I can do this for myself, my husband and my children. Importantly im seeing a therapist to talk through my issues that make me seek these escapes in addictive behaviour. So in short, I would say its how u approach it, be loving and supportive, which I know you must be as your on here (because you care) maybe suggest some blood work- liver function tests or an ultrasound scan of the liver, but just keep re-iterating its because you care. Good luck x

AppleCorp

Wonderful words of advice. Very close to the path I'm taking. Many blessings to you and your husband on your road to continued recovery.

mattmathews

That's such a great question, and the answer is not "nothing."

Your wife has an illness. (This is just an analogy), but if she had diabetes you'd have no problem recognizing that you didn't cause it, you can't control her behavior, (e.g. you can't change her diet, you can't make sure she tests her blood, etc., I mean you could try...but it would drive you crazy if she wasn't cooperating), and you certainly can't cure it.

So what can we do? Certainly taking care of ourselves, physically, emotionally and spiritually is very good advice. We can also learn about behaviors that we often think are helpful but really aren't. For example, a lot of people try to control how much the alcoholic drinks by counting bottles, looking for secret stashes, pouring out drinks, nagging the drinker--none of those things do anything to stop or slow down the drinker, but they make us a little crazy.
We can set firm boundaries, such as not allowing the drinker to drive if we even suspect they been drinking, or not buying that bottle of alcohol while we're at the grocery store, or maybe leaving the room or the house to avoid an argument if our spouse isn't sober.
We can make sure our children are safe and protected. Back to the driving thing. Or possibly seeking counseling or Alateen for them if they exhibit signs that they are bothered by the drinking. They may not think they have a problem and they may not want to go...you really need to think about what's in their best interests. Just giving them the space to talk freely in a nonjudgmental situation and to recognize that it's not their fault may make all the difference.
And we can take care of ourselves. Many of us come out of years of living with an addict with a variety of subtle physical and emotional issues. We may put off addressing health issues while we deal with the alcoholic. We may experience financial issues. Living with an addict can create emotional issues such as self-esteem issues, self-doubt, feelings of helplessness, fear, anger, grief, feelings of being unloved, abandoned, overwhelmed. We can address those issues by going to see a counselor, many of us have done that. Many counselors recommend that we go to Al-anon, because they believe it is an effective program. And, Al-anon is free. (Most of us contribute a couple of dollars a week, or what we can to help pay for expenses.)
Al-anon is a pretty simple program. There are no "musts" in Al-anon, no one should ever tell you that you have to do anything. (That's not a guarantee that an individual member won't offer unsolicited "advice." We all at different placed in the program and Al-anon has no "leaders" to keep members in line). Al-anon is not a religious program, it is open to people of all faiths, or none. (I'm a Buddhist/atheist and I get along just fine hanging out with the Catholics, and Baptist's and Nazarene's).
The meetings are pretty simple too, we simply share stories about our own personal experience, strength and hope, and no one is ever required to talk or to share. Some people don't feel comfortable sharing for a very long time--and that's OK. If you're asked if you want to share, you can just "pass" and the meeting will move on. There is a recommended program of "steps," but many members of Al-anon delay doing it for years, others never do it (at least formally). Those that do the steps believe that it's been very helpful to them. And there is literature about alcoholism and the recovery from the effects of alcoholism.
One thing that we say in Al-anon is that "changed attitudes can aid recovery." That applies to your recovery, and it applies to your relationship with your wife. You can't change her, she's the only one that can do that. But by changing yourself, you may create the conditions where she recognizes that she has a problem and decides to seek help.
A lot of us say "Why do I need to change, the alcoholic is the one with the problem?" The best short answer is: We change because what we've been doing hasn't been working.
I believe that life is a journey, not a destination. Best wishes on your journey.

AppleCorp

Thank you Matt for the considerate and well thought out response. I'll be going to Al-anon locally for support. I recognize and am willing to change as needed to help my wife.

grizz

Hi Applecorp. I could have almost written your post word for word. My AW is also a bottle a night drinker for about the same number of years. But in the last 6 months her tolerance has increased and she is now adding Vodka to the mix. I also have to deal with the occasional drunken rant, but normally she passes out around 8:00. You are a good man applecorp. I have become a indifferent, cant wait until she is snoring on the couch husband. Just realize you didnt cause it, you cant control it and you cant cure it. Hang in there.


grizz

AppleCorp

Still here, no real changes, Still praying AW will desire change. (this is the first time I've used AW) Instead, she'll point out others who "have a drinking problem". I remain loving and supportive, have avoided being angry, but don't really know what to do next. I think it's time for my visit to our doctor.