how to approach?
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 13
how to approach?
my AGF of two years is just finishing a 3 day bender. ( longest I have experienced) She is professional 6 figure salary 23 years with a large multinational. She was sober for 20 years. Last 4 years not so much. I have loved her deeply for the last 2 years, and am questioning if this is how I want to spend my life.
I thought I could handle it all and help save her life... Am learning I can't and can't.
I detached for the last day of this bender listening to her fall out of bed and stagger into walls while not trying to intervene. She potentially jeopordized her job and has lost recolection of the last few days. The thought of me hearing her fall down the stairs was maddening as I could not sleep.
Flash forward to today when she is drying out..
I don't know how to approach her to discuss anything. She claims she can't remember and non of it should be a big deal. She was in her home and not driving.
I am dreading going home because life has turned into mind numbing TV. I have all these expectations of discussion and gaining clarity, but I know I am going to get a blank stare and then an agitated response to any conversation.
I get the feeling that reminding her of all of the drunken antics will do no good as shame seems to not be a factor.
How do I open the conversation ?
I dont even know how to say I love you anymore and it is killing me inside. I feel if I do everything will be justified in her mind and she gets the security she needs while I get left empty and beat.
Thank you.
I thought I could handle it all and help save her life... Am learning I can't and can't.
I detached for the last day of this bender listening to her fall out of bed and stagger into walls while not trying to intervene. She potentially jeopordized her job and has lost recolection of the last few days. The thought of me hearing her fall down the stairs was maddening as I could not sleep.
Flash forward to today when she is drying out..
I don't know how to approach her to discuss anything. She claims she can't remember and non of it should be a big deal. She was in her home and not driving.
I am dreading going home because life has turned into mind numbing TV. I have all these expectations of discussion and gaining clarity, but I know I am going to get a blank stare and then an agitated response to any conversation.
I get the feeling that reminding her of all of the drunken antics will do no good as shame seems to not be a factor.
How do I open the conversation ?
I dont even know how to say I love you anymore and it is killing me inside. I feel if I do everything will be justified in her mind and she gets the security she needs while I get left empty and beat.
Thank you.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,163
Dealing with an active alkie is like entering the twilight zone.
You have clarity, and can see the situation for what it truly is.
Seems, whenever I tried to talk to XA about his choices, he would twist, turn, manipulate and before I knew it, he had me second guessing myself. I would get the "Can't a guy have any fun, lighten up woman, where is your sense of adventure?" ( Yeah, real fun, falling off the porch, hitting your head on the concrete, 6 hours sitting in the ER and 10 stitches to the head) Not my idea of a fun Friday night. Or any other night that I had to babysit his drunken a$$.
I call only suggest when talking with her, you express how you find her behavior/ actions unacceptable. Unacceptable is unacceptable, period. i would let that be the end of the conversation ,until you establish some boundaries for yourself. Be prepared to follow thru on any boundary you present. Boundaries are not threats. Boundaries are in place for YOU, not her, an example....... if you choose to go on a three day bender I will make other plans for those three days, and then follow thru, leave, you do not have to take a front row seat to her shenanigan's.
You get to decide HOW you want to live YOUR life. If this is as good as it gets, is that an acceptable happy ever after for you? You get to decide what worthy qualities you are seeking in a partner.
Personally, an active addict has NOTHING to offer me. And as I grow older I no longer enjoy, or have the patience for the rollercoaster ride that comes with the daily living of an active addict.
Keep posting we are here, and we understand.
You have clarity, and can see the situation for what it truly is.
Seems, whenever I tried to talk to XA about his choices, he would twist, turn, manipulate and before I knew it, he had me second guessing myself. I would get the "Can't a guy have any fun, lighten up woman, where is your sense of adventure?" ( Yeah, real fun, falling off the porch, hitting your head on the concrete, 6 hours sitting in the ER and 10 stitches to the head) Not my idea of a fun Friday night. Or any other night that I had to babysit his drunken a$$.
I call only suggest when talking with her, you express how you find her behavior/ actions unacceptable. Unacceptable is unacceptable, period. i would let that be the end of the conversation ,until you establish some boundaries for yourself. Be prepared to follow thru on any boundary you present. Boundaries are not threats. Boundaries are in place for YOU, not her, an example....... if you choose to go on a three day bender I will make other plans for those three days, and then follow thru, leave, you do not have to take a front row seat to her shenanigan's.
You get to decide HOW you want to live YOUR life. If this is as good as it gets, is that an acceptable happy ever after for you? You get to decide what worthy qualities you are seeking in a partner.
Personally, an active addict has NOTHING to offer me. And as I grow older I no longer enjoy, or have the patience for the rollercoaster ride that comes with the daily living of an active addict.
Keep posting we are here, and we understand.
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,295
Tell her how you feel. "I can't sleep listening to you crashing into walls fearing you will tumble down the stairs."
She says--Oh I won't. meh.
You say--that's not my point. My point is that I have trouble sleeping when you are like that. It AFFECTS ME.
She responds with_________.
I think the point is to gain clarity, not for her, but for yourself. After you say it affects you, either she tells you to go buy earplugs, or she looks up at you with a light bulb moment that her drinking affects others, not just herself.
At that point, you learn where you stand. You can continue the conversation to see if she is HEARING YOU, or if she shuts down, minimizes, and tells you off.
You find out what she really thinks of your needs here. Sleep, a basic need.
You find out if she is remorseful. If she is--further conversation about what is going to be done about it.
You find out if you even matter, sorry to put it so bluntly.
This may go down differently than what I typed--but I think what you need is some clarity on where YOU stand in relation to her relationship with alcohol. Whether she is even open to discussing it at all. Whether you have any say at all. Could go either way.
It's not an answer or a solution--it's simply my idea of how you can find out more--"more will be revealed" type of thinking, because the elephant in the room seems to be avoided being discussed at all costs. It's investigative work into how deep she is in denial, and could be eye-opening for both of you, or at least, YOU...and even that is progress, FOR YOU. May not help the relationship one iota.
She says--Oh I won't. meh.
You say--that's not my point. My point is that I have trouble sleeping when you are like that. It AFFECTS ME.
She responds with_________.
I think the point is to gain clarity, not for her, but for yourself. After you say it affects you, either she tells you to go buy earplugs, or she looks up at you with a light bulb moment that her drinking affects others, not just herself.
At that point, you learn where you stand. You can continue the conversation to see if she is HEARING YOU, or if she shuts down, minimizes, and tells you off.
You find out what she really thinks of your needs here. Sleep, a basic need.
You find out if she is remorseful. If she is--further conversation about what is going to be done about it.
You find out if you even matter, sorry to put it so bluntly.
This may go down differently than what I typed--but I think what you need is some clarity on where YOU stand in relation to her relationship with alcohol. Whether she is even open to discussing it at all. Whether you have any say at all. Could go either way.
It's not an answer or a solution--it's simply my idea of how you can find out more--"more will be revealed" type of thinking, because the elephant in the room seems to be avoided being discussed at all costs. It's investigative work into how deep she is in denial, and could be eye-opening for both of you, or at least, YOU...and even that is progress, FOR YOU. May not help the relationship one iota.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 13
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Where I was anxious and lost in a martian desert I can now see guide posts and feel the love you all offer...
It has been a rollercoaster day, and I hate rollercoasters. but now I can feel hope again. and some innerstrength starting to build...
I am so fortunate to find you all.
Where I was anxious and lost in a martian desert I can now see guide posts and feel the love you all offer...
It has been a rollercoaster day, and I hate rollercoasters. but now I can feel hope again. and some innerstrength starting to build...
I am so fortunate to find you all.
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
Its my personal experience and seems to be the experience of others on here that conversation doesn't get results with A's.
The only thing that seems to work IMO is setting boundaries. I am not saying that she will embrace sobriety....but you won't lose yourself to her disease in the process. You are wise to question if you want this for your life. I think you should share that with her. I wouldn't expect for you to get anything but an argument - she is in denial as proofed by her explanation that she is drinking in her home blah blah blah.
Your next step is Al Anon. Start going to meetings. You will get support and education - you need to be educated about this disease. You also need the tools and strength to make decision for you that are best for YOU - not her.
Keep posting - reading. This is a good place to be in your situation.
The only thing that seems to work IMO is setting boundaries. I am not saying that she will embrace sobriety....but you won't lose yourself to her disease in the process. You are wise to question if you want this for your life. I think you should share that with her. I wouldn't expect for you to get anything but an argument - she is in denial as proofed by her explanation that she is drinking in her home blah blah blah.
Your next step is Al Anon. Start going to meetings. You will get support and education - you need to be educated about this disease. You also need the tools and strength to make decision for you that are best for YOU - not her.
Keep posting - reading. This is a good place to be in your situation.
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gulf Coast, Florida USA
Posts: 5,731
Originally Posted by Lionhearted 
How do I open the conversation ?
I dont even know how to say I love you anymore and it is killing me inside. I feel if I do everything will be justified in her mind and she gets the security she needs while I get left empty and beat.
Thank you.
I dont even know how to say I love you anymore and it is killing me inside. I feel if I do everything will be justified in her mind and she gets the security she needs while I get left empty and beat.
Thank you.
Maybe if she sees herself she will think about it just a bit more and not dismiss it so easily. The video can't lie.
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 168
Your next step is Al Anon. Start going to meetings. You will get support and education - you need to be educated about this disease. You also need the tools and strength to make decision for you that are best for YOU - not her.
This! "The Courage to Change" is a wonderful book that was an enormous help!
This! "The Courage to Change" is a wonderful book that was an enormous help!
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
Something I learned a long time ago, that even though she is drying out today, you want to attempt to have a rational conversation with an alcohol soaked brain. Someone in the height of their addiction where denial, defensiveness and diversion is what you are going to get.
Put all that focus on you and figure out what is acceptable to you and what is not and what you are willing to do about it.
Put all that focus on you and figure out what is acceptable to you and what is not and what you are willing to do about it.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 28
Hello Lionhearted,
I am sorry you are going through this!
My AW was also a corporate success.. used to earn six figures... She had a sharp, astute business mind (probably still does.). So I used to believe reasoning and logic would convince her to stop drinking... Logic and reasoning does not apply... She had to (and still does) keep drinking. She drank too much and too often at corporate functions. She no longer earns six figures... she was fired.
As others have posted, set up your boundries and hold to them.
Hang in there!
I am sorry you are going through this!
My AW was also a corporate success.. used to earn six figures... She had a sharp, astute business mind (probably still does.). So I used to believe reasoning and logic would convince her to stop drinking... Logic and reasoning does not apply... She had to (and still does) keep drinking. She drank too much and too often at corporate functions. She no longer earns six figures... she was fired.
As others have posted, set up your boundries and hold to them.
Hang in there!
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 585
I feel for you, Lionhearted, I really do. Living with an actively drinking alcoholic is a crazy roller coaster ride of emotions. One part of your post jumped out at me:
This screams to me. The fact that she doesn't remember any of it is a big deal. You remember all too well the happenings during her blackout period, and it is a big deal to you. Yes, she wasn't driving (good), but it wasn't just in HER home, it was in the home that you share. So it's happening in your home and in affects you. And that is a big deal.
Sadly, unless she is ready/willing to admit that she has a problem, she won't take any positive action. My own experience has been that I can't do anything to make my AH change his ways. He has to do that on his own. And your GF has to do the same.
Speaking to an A about their alcoholism is tricky. Guilt and shame don't work. Yelling does nothing except raise your blood pressure. Speaking to them when they're sober is a good step, but they have to be receptive for any message to get through, and even if it does, it's still up to them to take action. I also second what atalose said about talking with A's during that "drying out" period - they may not be as smashed as they were the night before, but they're definitely not sober & straight-headed.
Set your boundaries. Ask yourself what you are willing to live with. Whether you communicate those boundaries to her is up to you - your boundaries are for you, and you're under no obligation to share them with anyone else if you don't want to.
Most importantly, take care of YOU. Keep reaching out. Sending you strength, hope, and hugs.
Originally Posted by Lionhearted
She claims she can't remember and non of it should be a big deal. She was in her home and not driving.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Sadly, unless she is ready/willing to admit that she has a problem, she won't take any positive action. My own experience has been that I can't do anything to make my AH change his ways. He has to do that on his own. And your GF has to do the same.
Speaking to an A about their alcoholism is tricky. Guilt and shame don't work. Yelling does nothing except raise your blood pressure. Speaking to them when they're sober is a good step, but they have to be receptive for any message to get through, and even if it does, it's still up to them to take action. I also second what atalose said about talking with A's during that "drying out" period - they may not be as smashed as they were the night before, but they're definitely not sober & straight-headed.
Set your boundaries. Ask yourself what you are willing to live with. Whether you communicate those boundaries to her is up to you - your boundaries are for you, and you're under no obligation to share them with anyone else if you don't want to.
Most importantly, take care of YOU. Keep reaching out. Sending you strength, hope, and hugs.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 13
one step back two forward....
What a nice surprise this morning to read the comments that you all took your valuable time to share. Thank you.
Here is my take away from a couple of the comments:
Atalose: re approaching the alcohol soaked brain .. that was my exact experience. I was super hopeful that she was dry -- however she was still nursing the drunk when I got home. I did not get angry - I just held my boundary (as has been suggested on here many times). I did not try to engage in conversation... I walked the dog, and then told her I was going out for a Motorcycle ride... stating that I choose to not be around when she is drunk. I did do a childish thing when I noticed a water glass half filled with Vodka .. I dumped it out and refilled it with salt water....
Without typing a diary. I felt I had two small victories:
She did not drink through the night but woke up still nauseous and shaky. She was able to have coherent speech and reason was starting to come back .. I told her I missed her and missed that I have not been able to have a conversation with her for 3 days….. This struck a chord. ( victory #1 )
She called in sick to work again today, but vowed to stay sober today, because "tomorrow she has to get back to work". I took pause at that statement and replied -- sometime I would like that you would stay sober for me (which in my mind is US) instead of work. Actually put me ( us ) before Alcohol and work.. she balked and started to dodge.. I again asked if she was going to drink. She stated maybe she would just have a bloody Mary to stabilize things... I said –that is how it all begins…
I was then able to announce my new boundary:
If you choose to drink today I will find other things to do after work… I think this struck another cord. (Victory #2.)
It is very uncomfortable feeling to be detached …. She is my best friend. I missed her and felt alone. I did it though and the world did not end….
Boundaries seem to be easier to set however become challenging when time to enforce. I did that too and the world did not end
Thank you all for your time and comments….. In your own ways you are all healers….
Here is my take away from a couple of the comments:
Atalose: re approaching the alcohol soaked brain .. that was my exact experience. I was super hopeful that she was dry -- however she was still nursing the drunk when I got home. I did not get angry - I just held my boundary (as has been suggested on here many times). I did not try to engage in conversation... I walked the dog, and then told her I was going out for a Motorcycle ride... stating that I choose to not be around when she is drunk. I did do a childish thing when I noticed a water glass half filled with Vodka .. I dumped it out and refilled it with salt water....
Without typing a diary. I felt I had two small victories:
She did not drink through the night but woke up still nauseous and shaky. She was able to have coherent speech and reason was starting to come back .. I told her I missed her and missed that I have not been able to have a conversation with her for 3 days….. This struck a chord. ( victory #1 )
She called in sick to work again today, but vowed to stay sober today, because "tomorrow she has to get back to work". I took pause at that statement and replied -- sometime I would like that you would stay sober for me (which in my mind is US) instead of work. Actually put me ( us ) before Alcohol and work.. she balked and started to dodge.. I again asked if she was going to drink. She stated maybe she would just have a bloody Mary to stabilize things... I said –that is how it all begins…
I was then able to announce my new boundary:
If you choose to drink today I will find other things to do after work… I think this struck another cord. (Victory #2.)
It is very uncomfortable feeling to be detached …. She is my best friend. I missed her and felt alone. I did it though and the world did not end….
Boundaries seem to be easier to set however become challenging when time to enforce. I did that too and the world did not end
Thank you all for your time and comments….. In your own ways you are all healers….
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 951
To me, your real victories were setting boundaries and sticking to them.
When I thought I was making progress with my brother's addiction I usually got a comeuppance later. Alcoholics and addicts can often comprehend the problems they are causing. They can understand the consequences often, too. That doesn't mean they are ready to change or that they even can change.
It's when I make progress with myself that the real victory comes. Today I accept that it is unlikely that anything I say is going to cause someone else to find recovery.
When I thought I was making progress with my brother's addiction I usually got a comeuppance later. Alcoholics and addicts can often comprehend the problems they are causing. They can understand the consequences often, too. That doesn't mean they are ready to change or that they even can change.
It's when I make progress with myself that the real victory comes. Today I accept that it is unlikely that anything I say is going to cause someone else to find recovery.
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
The key here is with the challenging enforcement of our boundaries. And not to let our guard down because we like what they are saying and promising. Actions, Actions and Actions that you witness are the facts – not what they say.
Until she choices to get help for herself and work some kind of a program it’s going to be one challenge after another for you.
Kind of like the 5 year old who listens for today because they know they are in some kind of trouble but as the days pass they fall right back to that not listening.
Until she choices to get help for herself and work some kind of a program it’s going to be one challenge after another for you.
Kind of like the 5 year old who listens for today because they know they are in some kind of trouble but as the days pass they fall right back to that not listening.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 494
conversation doesn't get results
Oh and my ex was fired last week from a six-figure job that he loved and had had for 10+ years, for drinking during the workday.
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
From my experiences with my AW I discovered that having the discussion with a nearby tree was every bit as effective and the tree didn't get mad.
What really helps me is the 3 C's.
I didn't cause it.
I can't control it.
I can't cure it.
Your friend,
What really helps me is the 3 C's.
I didn't cause it.
I can't control it.
I can't cure it.
Your friend,
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 13
Wow - the optimist in me just ran into your tree m1k3 ... but I am realizing it to be true. I have know it,, now I am working through accepting it as reality.
from my conversaitions today with AGF looks like my boundaries are going to be getting more excercise... still not done.
Which will now force me to deal with some of my own issues, namley not liking to be alone so much... Brings back childhood memories of being grounded... except this time I eat all my peas and I am home on time...
Seriously though.. having to reconcile being away so much ( because I set my boundary at being not present during the A behavior ) I am afaid of setting myself up to revisit old habits ... like shopping for a new relationship....
This issue will now become a committment test for myself..
the more I see out there the shinnier everything is going to appear..
Thank you all, again
from my conversaitions today with AGF looks like my boundaries are going to be getting more excercise... still not done.
Which will now force me to deal with some of my own issues, namley not liking to be alone so much... Brings back childhood memories of being grounded... except this time I eat all my peas and I am home on time...
Seriously though.. having to reconcile being away so much ( because I set my boundary at being not present during the A behavior ) I am afaid of setting myself up to revisit old habits ... like shopping for a new relationship....
This issue will now become a committment test for myself..
the more I see out there the shinnier everything is going to appear..
Thank you all, again
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,163
I never recommend jumping from the pan into the fire.
But what I can support is your acknowledgement of needing more out of the relationship than she can offer/ provide. IT is a powerful first step to acknowledge that we are powerless over addiction, and it is so very important not to allow her disease to consume YOU.
I had to keep telling myself I DESERVE a life free of addiction.
Maybe on some of your evenings out, while she is feeding her addiction, you could be casually scoping out new places to live? just a thought. Always good to have a plan #2 in place.
But what I can support is your acknowledgement of needing more out of the relationship than she can offer/ provide. IT is a powerful first step to acknowledge that we are powerless over addiction, and it is so very important not to allow her disease to consume YOU.
I had to keep telling myself I DESERVE a life free of addiction.
Maybe on some of your evenings out, while she is feeding her addiction, you could be casually scoping out new places to live? just a thought. Always good to have a plan #2 in place.
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