Need Help with Boundaries

Old 03-29-2013, 10:04 AM
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Need Help with Boundaries

Hi!
I've read the stickies about boundaries and its great info. There is a lot to process! I understand setting a boundary is communicating consequences for unacceptable behavior. Where I'm stuck or need help is figuring out what the consequences are. I understand what behavior is unacceptable to me.

RAH and I barely communicate and he's threatened me multiple times with divorce. I agreed to move forward with that threat and suggested we make an appt with an attorney then RAH backs off and sz he's waiting for me to get a job then he'll file for seperation. It seems he's just trying to control me with his threats. I've communicated to him to stop with the threats. I don't know what to say as a consequence if he continues threatening me with divorce? The only thing I can think of to say is that I will file for divorce. Any suggestions?

RAH is also very cold to me and is usually very short with me when we do talk face to face. I would like to set a boundary about how he treats me but again not sure what to say as a consequence. Suggestions?

It doesn't seem like RAH is really working a program of recovery. I would like to set a boundary that comminucates I will not stay in this relationship unless he starts seeing a therapist/counselor or enters some intense recovery program. I don't want to try to control him but I just can't live like this anymore. Is that a fair boundary? How should I phrase it?

I would also like to set house rules about how we treat each other and basics like greeting everyone when you come home, etc. Am I asking for too much? Should I take baby steps? I would very much appreciate any suggestions on consequences - it feels to me the only consequence I have at this point is divorce.
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:19 AM
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RAH is also very cold to me and is usually very short with me when we do talk face to face. I would like to set a boundary about how he treats me but again not sure what to say as a consequence. Suggestions?

It doesn't seem like RAH is really working a program of recovery. I would like to set a boundary that comminucates I will not stay in this relationship unless he starts seeing a therapist/counselor or enters some intense recovery program. I don't want to try to control him but I just can't live like this anymore. Is that a fair boundary? How should I phrase it?
Boundaries aren't really for him, they're for you. Boundaries are you saying to yourself, "This is unacceptable in my relationships," and then being prepared and willing to move on that statement. All these things you're planning on telling him, I assume you've told him all these things before. You're unhappy, you're tired of being threatened, you're tired of the manipulation and verbal abuse. He knows all that. He has all this information already. You don't need to communicate it to him again.

If, ultimately, the boundary is that if these things don't change you're leaving, then say it to yourself and live your life. You're putting the onus on him. Why not take back your power and make this decision for yourself?
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:23 AM
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I don't want to try to control him but I just can't live like this anymore.
How should I phrase it?


i can't live like this anymore, therefore i am going to an attorney, filing for divorce and leaving, (as soon as humanly possible).
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:23 AM
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Someone wiser than me will have a different perspective to share, but here is mine.

I don't think you need to verbalize a boundary around the divorce threats.
Personally, I would simply say "Yes, you've said that before." and nothing more.
He is trying to get a reaction from you, stop giving him anything to feed on and let him know you see his constant threats as idle.

I don't think house rules about greetings will work or give you what you want. I might just tell him "Our lack of communication puts such an air of tension in our home. For our daughter's sake could we agree to be polite and greet to one another? If you are not willing to do this, I understand but I am going to continue treating you the way I would like to be treated." Then do it. Say Hello. If he doesn't respond that's on him, not you.

It sounds like you two don't have much of a relationship at the moment. Do you think he would agree to see a therapist together so that you have a neutral third party to help you both communicate your needs? At that point you could better communicate that you are willing to work on your marriage but would like to see him seeking help for recovery.
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:29 AM
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Boundaries are for you. You don't have to tell anybody what your boundaries are.

A good example is "I will not ride in a car where I know the driver has been drinking." You don't have to tell anyone, if someone you think has been drinking offers you a ride all you have to say is "no, thank you".

Your friend,
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:33 AM
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Thank you all.
Hanna - yes we don't have much of a relationship. He's refused to go to marriage counseling and my therapist said he doesn't think it will work at this point because RAH doesn't seem to be working a program. RAH is still shifting blame on me for everything. Therapist said if and when I do move forward with a divorce that I need to be prepared to be blamed for it. My therapist thinks RAH is pushing me to file for divorce so he can be the victim. It seems my only option is divorce - I'm slowly accepting that reality. It's really tough. I feel like my choice is the lesser for two evils - A divorce (hate to put my 14 yr DD through that) or try to find a way to cope/thrive in this marriage.
Thanks!
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:46 AM
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:horse:horse:horseDear cagirl9, do not assume that your daughter is not being damaged by this atmosphere. A child cannot "thrive" in this---even if you feel that you are "coping".

Divorce is not as damaging to childen as living in active alcoholism with BOTH parents.

Actually, facing reality is not as bad as trying to "fight" it. Really, this must be sapping all of your life energy. Your daughter can't possible be getting the benefit of a serene and happy mother.

Food for thought,

sincerely, dandylion
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Old 03-29-2013, 11:53 AM
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Dandylion - Unfortunately I do see my DD has been damaged by the atmosphere in our home. It is heartbreaking. I want to do what is best for her. I am starting to accept my reality and it seems that divorce is my only choice. My energy has been sapped!! I have some days where I feel really good then other days where I feel like the life has been sucked out of me. I want to be the best I can be - especially for my daughter.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by CAgirl9 View Post
Thank you all.
Hanna - yes we don't have much of a relationship. He's refused to go to marriage counseling and my therapist said he doesn't think it will work at this point because RAH doesn't seem to be working a program. RAH is still shifting blame on me for everything. Therapist said if and when I do move forward with a divorce that I need to be prepared to be blamed for it. My therapist thinks RAH is pushing me to file for divorce so he can be the victim. It seems my only option is divorce - I'm slowly accepting that reality. It's really tough. I feel like my choice is the lesser for two evils - A divorce (hate to put my 14 yr DD through that) or try to find a way to cope/thrive in this marriage.
Thanks!
I've never been married but feel like I've been through at least two divorces; my parents' and my brother's. I also have a good friend going through something very similar. I know that despite all of her efforts, she feels a great deal of pain, guilt and sorry surrounding her marriage. Anyone can see that she was left with no options, but she hasn't forgiven herself yet. So I think you can pretty much know you will be blamed and anticipate that you will need to do a great deal of work to heal from this situation, but I also believe there is a way to mitigate this by being clear with him before taking action.

I would write him a letter and deliver it via email. In it I would lay out the conditions for remaining married in simple, positive and non-judgmental language.

"I would like to work together to strengthen and heal our marriage and believe this is essential to our continuing to remain together.

I am willing to continue our marriage as long as we attend marriage counseling and each have individual therapy."

That kind of language. Not "I'm going to file for divorce unless xyz."

The conditions would include joint marriage counseling along with individual counseling for both of you. I would set a deadline for this work to begin, along with a minimum amount of sessions per month for each of you.

He's likely going to decline, but you will have it in writing for yourself that you gave the option to work on things. Having that would help me personally to always remember that I tried.

I'm so sorry you are going through this. It's very sad but it does sound like you need to make some decisions and take some action to make changes in your life.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by m1k3 View Post
Boundaries are for you. You don't have to tell anybody what your boundaries are.

A good example is "I will not ride in a car where I know the driver has been drinking." You don't have to tell anyone, if someone you think has been drinking offers you a ride all you have to say is "no, thank you".
^^^^^This!^^^^^

Once I truly learned that boundaries are MINE and are about ME, my world opened up. I'm usually a quick study, but this has been a hard one to grasp. I don't have to communicate my boundaries to anyone if I don't want to.

If you do want to communicate your boundary about his recovery efforts, then you can phrase it with an I statement: "I will not continue to live long term with someone who is not actively working on recovery." Hell, say it to yourself first. Try it on, see how it feels. Once you believe it, then it is safe to communicate it to him, either with your words or your actions.

As far as house rules & whatnot...oof. There should be some level of mutual respect in any household, and the price of not having that mutual respect between you goes up when there is a child in the house. I don't have kids, but I do know is that kids absorb a LOT. They're sponges. They hear more than we think and they learn things we don't want them to. (Hell, even my DOG is affected by stress and fighting in the household!)

Have you heard of post-acute withdrawal syndrome (PAWS)? Not to excuse bad behavior, but there is a possibility that the mood swings and whatnot are symptoms of PAWS. If he's been sober for over a year, the likelihood is less than if it were just a couple or few months, but there are some people who continue to feel symptoms of PAWS for 6 months to a year or more. Again, not making an excuse for bad behavior, but it could possibly explain the moodiness and excessive emotion/sensitivity.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:43 PM
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This is exactly what happens to me...and by now I also feel calm, I do get frustrated and sometimes hurt by his actions, but I don't feel that anger that I used to, and to be honest that scares me because I'm afraid that it means that I'm becoming used to him acting this way. I know that feeling of knowing what they did just by how they talk to you on the phone...it's hard...while I was reading your post it was like reading what I'm thinking and the things I go thru. I hope things work out for you, and that you find strength, this is a tough battle.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:47 PM
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I live with an AH who is very cold to me and also very angry when he's drinking which starts at noon and continues until late at night. I'm just starting the process of coming to terms with the situation and the first thing I've started doing is setting personal boundaries. It hasn't been easy for me. I now leave the room when he starts ranting and I have started trying to move forward with my life to gain some peace. I've been seeing a therapist which has really helped too and I think the one thing my therapist told me that I cling to when I feel so alone is that his relationship at this point is with the alcohol and not me. Once I really came to terms with that statement, I've been able to slowly move forward. Don't know if that helps you. I'm so sorry you're going through this. It's very difficult for sure.
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Old 03-29-2013, 05:07 PM
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I agree that your boundaries are personal to you. What you are talking about is a form of coercion--"shape up or x will happen."

Incidentally, lawyers don't (or certainly SHOULDN'T) consult with couples about divorce. You each need your own legal advice--what is good for you isn't necessarily what's good for him. It would be a conflict of interest. What I STRONGLY suggest you do is to consult an attorney yourself and find out what your rights would be in the event of a divorce--whether filed by you or by him. Knowledge is power. You don't have to live in a world of worrying about what-ifs. You don't have to tell him you are doing it (and, in fact, it might be best if you don't).

I haven't heard you say anything good about your marriage or about living with him. So many people think of divorce as some kind of failure, when it can actually be a very positive and empowering act. Regaining a sense of control over your OWN destiny instead of being at the mercy of someone else's moods and whims can life-changing. I suggest you start reframing the idea in your head as a gateway to freedom rather than contemplating it as something to fear.
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Old 03-29-2013, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by CAgirl9 View Post
Thank you all.
Hanna - yes we don't have much of a relationship. He's refused to go to marriage counseling and my therapist said he doesn't think it will work at this point because RAH doesn't seem to be working a program. RAH is still shifting blame on me for everything. Therapist said if and when I do move forward with a divorce that I need to be prepared to be blamed for it. My therapist thinks RAH is pushing me to file for divorce so he can be the victim. It seems my only option is divorce - I'm slowly accepting that reality. It's really tough. I feel like my choice is the lesser for two evils - A divorce (hate to put my 14 yr DD through that) or try to find a way to cope/thrive in this marriage.
Thanks!
When I was about 10 my mother divorced my alcoholic father. Believe me when I say that although it was hard, I have always looked up to her for doing it and really, putting me through growing up with an alcoholic father in the house would have been even worse.
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:24 PM
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Thank you everyone. I think I knew boundaries are for me but all the comments really cemented that idea. And, the other thing that was helpful to hear was that I don't need to necessarily communicate my boundaries to RAH. Thanks!
LexieCat -Thanks for the legal advice. I have already gone to an attorney to find out my rights, etc and yes, I left feeling powerful by having that info. Of course I have not told RAH I saw an attorney. I also feel better that I have a great attorney secured in the event I need one. I also appreciate your perspective on divorce - I think I have been thinking of it as a failure. What a great way to shift my thinking -thanks!
Florence said something about taking back my power. I realize I have lost my power. How do I regain that? Is that the result of taking care of me, setting my boundaries and detaching?
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