We have to admit complete defeat!!
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gulf Coast, Florida USA
Posts: 5,731
We have to admit complete defeat!!
Hello, deeker alkie!
I have no control over other alkies, that seems to be my issue lately....
I believe anyone who has the desire to stop drinking is a part of AA/SR. Anyone who has a desire I would like to help. Well I suppose anyone is welcome in SR regardless.
AA however has one requirement for membership- A desire to stop drinking.
But I can counsel someone, pray with them,share my experience, strength and hope with them but unless they are willing to stop and take suggestions I just can't make them want this.
If they are not ready they just aren't ready.
I am as powerless over another's alcoholism as I am over mine. Sometimes I think because I have had a spiritual awakening and a major miracle because of God and this site and the AA program that I can give someone else hope to want to find recovery. Maybe I can give hope.
But each one of us has to admit absolute compleat defeat before we are going to be willing to stop drinking and learn new tools to stay clean and sober.
My ego made me believe I could say some magical thing to a newcomer to make them want to get and stay sober.
Not gonna lie, it still makes me think that sometimes. I really hope I can.
But I am pretty powerless and have no control.
I realize I can't jump into their skins, reset their goals or decide what is best for them. Believe me I have tried.
They may actually become more productive if I don't push them and do it for them.
I need to detach with love.
So today I have to let them go and just pray for them till they really are ready. And when they are I will be here for them.
Until then I seek out another newcomer who wants it. I have boundaries today and if they are not ready I can not help and I'm not gonna lose my serenity trying.
I see people who are trying to solve all their problems but are still drinking. They believe the problems brought on the drink. I know better. My drinking brought on my problems.
It's hard letting go, especially when I have found a life more satisfying than anything I have ever experienced before, I just want to shake them and say , Do what I did, take suggestions, It works.
If I have reached out in all sincerity and they just are not ready I do not have to save them or beat myself up cuz they weren't ready and I couldn't hang in there.
It's heart breaking and I now know what all the people who went before me felt like when they tried to help me over the last 37 years when I just wasn't ready to surrender.
I know now that I can carry the message , not the alkie.....
Today my recovery comes first but if you really are ready , hey let's do this, cuz you help me too! Thanks!
I have no control over other alkies, that seems to be my issue lately....
I believe anyone who has the desire to stop drinking is a part of AA/SR. Anyone who has a desire I would like to help. Well I suppose anyone is welcome in SR regardless.
AA however has one requirement for membership- A desire to stop drinking.
But I can counsel someone, pray with them,share my experience, strength and hope with them but unless they are willing to stop and take suggestions I just can't make them want this.
If they are not ready they just aren't ready.
I am as powerless over another's alcoholism as I am over mine. Sometimes I think because I have had a spiritual awakening and a major miracle because of God and this site and the AA program that I can give someone else hope to want to find recovery. Maybe I can give hope.
But each one of us has to admit absolute compleat defeat before we are going to be willing to stop drinking and learn new tools to stay clean and sober.
My ego made me believe I could say some magical thing to a newcomer to make them want to get and stay sober.
Not gonna lie, it still makes me think that sometimes. I really hope I can.
But I am pretty powerless and have no control.
I realize I can't jump into their skins, reset their goals or decide what is best for them. Believe me I have tried.
They may actually become more productive if I don't push them and do it for them.
I need to detach with love.
So today I have to let them go and just pray for them till they really are ready. And when they are I will be here for them.
Until then I seek out another newcomer who wants it. I have boundaries today and if they are not ready I can not help and I'm not gonna lose my serenity trying.
I see people who are trying to solve all their problems but are still drinking. They believe the problems brought on the drink. I know better. My drinking brought on my problems.
It's hard letting go, especially when I have found a life more satisfying than anything I have ever experienced before, I just want to shake them and say , Do what I did, take suggestions, It works.
If I have reached out in all sincerity and they just are not ready I do not have to save them or beat myself up cuz they weren't ready and I couldn't hang in there.
It's heart breaking and I now know what all the people who went before me felt like when they tried to help me over the last 37 years when I just wasn't ready to surrender.
I know now that I can carry the message , not the alkie.....
Today my recovery comes first but if you really are ready , hey let's do this, cuz you help me too! Thanks!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: east coast
Posts: 1,711
Well said deeker! I too wish I could give others the feeling I have that makes me want to stay sober no matter what. But we know its anindividual process. Keep sharing your experience strength & hope 
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,122
I have to admit I keep stumbling but what I try to hold on to is how wonderful I felt the next day when I was able to make it through one of the worst cravings I have ever had in my life. It was so terrible I found myself crying over it... But somehow I beat it and I felt ontop of the world!
I wanted to thank you for contributing a poem on my thread as it helped me through that dark moment and into a brighter day. So, I appreciate all the kind words you have shared with me here on SR.
I wanted to thank you for contributing a poem on my thread as it helped me through that dark moment and into a brighter day. So, I appreciate all the kind words you have shared with me here on SR.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Athens, Georgia
Posts: 962
Thanks for posting deeker. You being here, and reading your posts, DOES help me in my commitment to be free from my addiction. It helps me to hear about you doing it, so I can convince myself I can continue, and be FREE.
Also, is there some specific meaning behind the term, 'deeker' ? just curious.
Also, is there some specific meaning behind the term, 'deeker' ? just curious.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Mid-Atlantic USA
Posts: 2,441
You will have to speak for yourself on this point Deeker, as I admit no such thing. I admit I have a problem with alcohol, but I don't "admit defeat". Nor do I believe I need to "admit defeat" to become sober. Rather, I need to understand and accept that drinking is no longer an option, and I need to find a way to a happy, fulfilling life without alcohol or any other mood altering substance.
However, if someone needs to "admit defeat" to get sober, I have no problem with them doing so. But your implication that "we" all have to "admit complete defeat" is a little presumptuous IMO. I’m sorry deeker, I don’t mean to be contentious, but your post isn’t sitting too well with me. It has an air of “I know better than the rest of you” to it. I don’t think that was your intention, but that’s what I see.
However, if someone needs to "admit defeat" to get sober, I have no problem with them doing so. But your implication that "we" all have to "admit complete defeat" is a little presumptuous IMO. I’m sorry deeker, I don’t mean to be contentious, but your post isn’t sitting too well with me. It has an air of “I know better than the rest of you” to it. I don’t think that was your intention, but that’s what I see.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gulf Coast, Florida USA
Posts: 5,731
Originally Posted by FeenixxRising 
I’m sorry deeker, I don’t mean to be contentious, but your post isn’t sitting too well with me. It has an air of “I know better than the rest of you” to it. I don’t think that was your intention, but that’s what I see.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Athens, Georgia
Posts: 962
deeker,
My understanding of your post was that you realized the 'powerlessness' you have over another person's decision to deal with their addiction. You realize you can, however, help guide a person if they are willing, which almost always means they must realize they have an addiction which is controlling them.
I have made use of the AVRT Big Plan, and believe it is very effective. However, the founder and writer of the program, in his books, describes active using as being 'chemically dependent', which is a choice. He then qualifies the term 'Addiction' as being the state where the user realizes they have Lost Control, and thus has entered into true 'Addiction'. That is what happened to me. I drank of my own choosing. Then when I tried to quit, for reasons which are not hard to imagine, I realized I was in fact Addicted, just as the AVRT founder describes it.
Semantics maybe, but realizing the term Addiction did apply to me, was the tipping point where I realized I had to make the decision to quit drinking...completely.
I believe different camps in the recovery world focus too often on defending their position, and that is a major contributor to some of the polarization. The Institutional Systemization of Recovery has certainly contributed to this polarization, and many people have been marginalized and feel offended, because they are told...You CAN'T Do IT.
I believe you and I and most of the people on Sober Recovery want to accentuate the positive, and work together in our common endeavor. That is why I am so grateful to be involved here, and thankful for the facilitator's establishing and protecting that environment.
My understanding of your post was that you realized the 'powerlessness' you have over another person's decision to deal with their addiction. You realize you can, however, help guide a person if they are willing, which almost always means they must realize they have an addiction which is controlling them.
I have made use of the AVRT Big Plan, and believe it is very effective. However, the founder and writer of the program, in his books, describes active using as being 'chemically dependent', which is a choice. He then qualifies the term 'Addiction' as being the state where the user realizes they have Lost Control, and thus has entered into true 'Addiction'. That is what happened to me. I drank of my own choosing. Then when I tried to quit, for reasons which are not hard to imagine, I realized I was in fact Addicted, just as the AVRT founder describes it.
Semantics maybe, but realizing the term Addiction did apply to me, was the tipping point where I realized I had to make the decision to quit drinking...completely.
I believe different camps in the recovery world focus too often on defending their position, and that is a major contributor to some of the polarization. The Institutional Systemization of Recovery has certainly contributed to this polarization, and many people have been marginalized and feel offended, because they are told...You CAN'T Do IT.
I believe you and I and most of the people on Sober Recovery want to accentuate the positive, and work together in our common endeavor. That is why I am so grateful to be involved here, and thankful for the facilitator's establishing and protecting that environment.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gulf Coast, Florida USA
Posts: 5,731
Originally Posted by RDBplus3
deeker,
My understanding of your post was that you realized the 'powerlessness' you have over another person's decision to deal with their addiction. You realize you can, however, help guide a person if they are willing, which almost always means they must realize they have an addiction which is controlling them.
I believe you and I and most of the people on Sober Recovery want to accentuate the positive, and work together in our common endeavor. That is why I am so grateful to be involved here, and thankful for the facilitator's establishing and protecting that environment.
My understanding of your post was that you realized the 'powerlessness' you have over another person's decision to deal with their addiction. You realize you can, however, help guide a person if they are willing, which almost always means they must realize they have an addiction which is controlling them.
I believe you and I and most of the people on Sober Recovery want to accentuate the positive, and work together in our common endeavor. That is why I am so grateful to be involved here, and thankful for the facilitator's establishing and protecting that environment.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canada. About as far south as you can get
Posts: 4,768
I believe there are 2 quite separate "types" of alcoholics.
1) The kind that are able to see the light and put the bottle/drug down and return to a fairly normal life.
2) The type described in AA's How It Works and The Doctor's Opinion who truly aren't able to do it on their own. Left to their own devices they suffer and die.
If you can "make up your mind" and "try harder" and get sober.... great !! If you can't then get to AA or you'll likely die.
I don't believe the one group really understand the other any more than normal society understands why I drank to near oblivion.
The simple fact as I see it is if you put a group 1 alcoholic in AA he/she will see it as extreme and walk away from it and sober up somewhere else... no harm, no foul.
If you try to get an group 2 alcoholic to "try harder" and "make up his mind" he/she will continue to fail until they decide to kill themselves.
The newcomers can try whatever they want.... they will have to find out which group they fit into. They don't know, that's why they end up looking for help.
Deeker has just the tip for a group 2 alky that hangs out here. I'm here for the same reason, the newcomer.
All the best.
Bob R
1) The kind that are able to see the light and put the bottle/drug down and return to a fairly normal life.
2) The type described in AA's How It Works and The Doctor's Opinion who truly aren't able to do it on their own. Left to their own devices they suffer and die.
If you can "make up your mind" and "try harder" and get sober.... great !! If you can't then get to AA or you'll likely die.
I don't believe the one group really understand the other any more than normal society understands why I drank to near oblivion.
The simple fact as I see it is if you put a group 1 alcoholic in AA he/she will see it as extreme and walk away from it and sober up somewhere else... no harm, no foul.
If you try to get an group 2 alcoholic to "try harder" and "make up his mind" he/she will continue to fail until they decide to kill themselves.
The newcomers can try whatever they want.... they will have to find out which group they fit into. They don't know, that's why they end up looking for help.
Deeker has just the tip for a group 2 alky that hangs out here. I'm here for the same reason, the newcomer.
All the best.
Bob R
Sobriety is Traditional
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Orcas Island, Washington
Posts: 9,064
Deeker, I have come to really appreciate your posts!
We know we can make a difference for people. I know of several lately. One person in particular came here (as did many of us) totally hopeless. But SoberRecovery was all this person had. What could be done? And so I suggested that person post some encouragement for someone else here. And three months later, I still see that person stopping in to lend a helping hand.
Thank you again, and thanks to everyone who posts here!
∞CF
We know we can make a difference for people. I know of several lately. One person in particular came here (as did many of us) totally hopeless. But SoberRecovery was all this person had. What could be done? And so I suggested that person post some encouragement for someone else here. And three months later, I still see that person stopping in to lend a helping hand.
Thank you again, and thanks to everyone who posts here!
∞CF
Keeping it simple!
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Surrey, BC
Posts: 3,282
I think everyone comes to the realization in their own time. Defeat for me was that I truly admitted that I could not control the alcohol no matter how hard I tried and that everything in my life was a mess. And that I alone was responsible for that, not all the things or people I use to blame. And realizing that I alone had the power to change me.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: FLAAADAH
Posts: 793
WOW... One line Deeker wrote...really jumped out at me.
YES...I thought I drank because of my problems...
...It never occured to me...My problems are a result of my drinking !!!
It's so d---n simple...but I never saw it !!!
Thanks Deeker !
YES...I thought I drank because of my problems...
...It never occured to me...My problems are a result of my drinking !!!
It's so d---n simple...but I never saw it !!!
Thanks Deeker !
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Scotland
Posts: 38
I have a friend that I'm trying to help but they won't admit they have a problem, yet they are aware of it. They have a phone councillor but they lie to them. I know I've been in denial before but I don't know whether to stick in or not.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
I'm not defeated. I'm not powerless. I do not practice any formal program, i've been sober for 22 months. I sincerely doubt that i'm going to die (anytime soon), because i don't believe in AA philosophy.. from my viewpoint, this method works as well, and perhaps just as many practice it without debates.
I stopped drinking because it was harmful, just as i stopped smoking, both were addictions that might have been pleasurable at one time, but i could not moderate.
I do believe in being grateful that i can live so much better and accomplish so much more since i made this choice.
Today i choose to get up, make coffee, walk my little dog and take a drive to visit my daughter, we are walking on the beach, even though its cold. Much better than starting the day with a drink and wasting my life.
I do still have many problems,but dealing with them sober is much easier.
I stopped drinking because it was harmful, just as i stopped smoking, both were addictions that might have been pleasurable at one time, but i could not moderate.
I do believe in being grateful that i can live so much better and accomplish so much more since i made this choice.
Today i choose to get up, make coffee, walk my little dog and take a drive to visit my daughter, we are walking on the beach, even though its cold. Much better than starting the day with a drink and wasting my life.
I do still have many problems,but dealing with them sober is much easier.
Sobriety is Traditional
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Orcas Island, Washington
Posts: 9,064
This was our inspirational reading for today:
I want to thank the Creator for all His gifts. I don't always understand the gifts of those who say negative things about me and who attack me, and I trust that the Creator has given me these gifts so that I may learn and grow spiritually.
I find it difficult to pray for those who attack me and to accept their attacks as gifts. Yet I have learned again and again from my Native American sisters and brothers that we can only thank the Creator for whatever is bestowed upon us. My native mentors do not ask me not to feel the pain or anger that comes with attacks. They only offer the possibility that everything that comes to us comes from the Creator and is therefore a gift.
When I accept the whole range of gifts from my creator, I am ready for the school of life.
--Anne Wilson Schaef, Native Wisdom for White Minds, Ballantine: 1995.
GIFTS / HUMILITY
I want to thank the Creator for all His gifts. I don't always understand the gifts of those who say negative things about me and who attack me, and I trust that the Creator has given me these gifts so that I may learn and grow spiritually.
Lenore Stiffam, Poet and Professor
Blood Tribe
Canada
Blood Tribe
Canada
I find it difficult to pray for those who attack me and to accept their attacks as gifts. Yet I have learned again and again from my Native American sisters and brothers that we can only thank the Creator for whatever is bestowed upon us. My native mentors do not ask me not to feel the pain or anger that comes with attacks. They only offer the possibility that everything that comes to us comes from the Creator and is therefore a gift.
∞
When I accept the whole range of gifts from my creator, I am ready for the school of life.
--Anne Wilson Schaef, Native Wisdom for White Minds, Ballantine: 1995.
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