shaolin5

Cliffs:
My wife is a cocaine/crack addict. Been using about 6years
I was fooled into thinking she had stopped using for good, that's why I married her ( Disclaimer: I had NO idea what an addict really was, and I had NO idea what a MASTER liar/manipulator she was until I found out way too late)
After stealing my laptop, shotgun, assault rifle and television for $400, (I got the laptop and shotgun back), she robbed her sister's daughter's piggy bank, which prompted her sister to press charges and have her arrested.
We used the charges to leverage her to go to rehab (which she WANTED TO DO), so she checked herself into a facility. In West Palm Beach Florida. For 30 days.
My question is, what can I expect when she returns? I mean, we have tried counseling, NA meetings (they only work if you go....it took her 120 days to get 90 days PRESENT). I HONESTLY believe she WANTS to quit ( or she believes she wants to quit. But I am at the end. She has lied to me, stolen from me, manipulated me, ect., and I'm NOT taking this **** anymore. PERIOD. This is her LAST SHOT.
I want to be supportive (and have been) and I hope she can turn it all around. But, I have my doubts. So, what should I expect?

Ann

Welcome to SR. I am glad you joined us and sorry for the circumstance that brought you here.

Dealing with addicted loved ones is tough, and crack is an extremely tough drug to shake...but many have, there are many here at SR who are living proof that people can recovery and thrive.

That said, addiction/recovery/relapse is often a revolving door that many addicts go through several times. Some "get it" the first time, some never do. My son has been lost in his addiction for about 20 years.

What I learned after spending years and years and thousands of dollars trying to save my son, is that only they can save themselves and that happens only when there willingness to get clean exceeds their fear of trying.

I learned that I could not save my son, that all the love and trying in the world was not enough if he didn't love himself enough to stop. If love could save an addict, not one of us would be here.

I found my balance and sanity again when I began going to meetings for me. CoDA (Codependents Anonymous) was my home group, Al-anon and Nar-anon are two similar fellowships that have helped many here. And coming to SR every day (for 11 years now) has been a saving grace for me. I was beaten and broken when I first arrived at the steps of recovery and today I live my life well, finding beauty in every day. I begin my day with a prayer for my son, then live my day in faith that God can do for him what I cannot.

Take a read around, especially the sticky threads at the top. You will find a lot of helpful information there.

My prayers go out for you and your family. Addiction truly is a family disease.

Hugs

Kindeyes

I have learned many things over the years of being the mother of an addict (also have an XAH).

For me, expectations get me into trouble......I inevitably get disappointed and become resentful. Learning how to let go of the outcome, deal with each day one at a time, and letting go and letting God handle things......those have been some of my primary tools that have helped me keep my focus.....on me.

I believe that taking care of myself first and establishing strong boundaries has been a critical change in my life. Personally, I know that I cannot live with active addiction. I just can't. It's a boundary....not an expectation. A boundary is something that I enforce for myself......

My suggestion for you (and for anyone who is dealing with a loved one who is addicted) would be to seek support for yourself and recognize the changes you may need to make for yourself. Take the focus off of the addict and turn it inward.

I often see people here on SR ask the question "does anyone know of people who have successfully conquered their addiction and stayed with their spouse". I want to give a resounding YES. I know many people who are living their lives in active recovery and who have remained married through the process. But of those couples I know that have done this, they are still very actively participating in a program of recovery. I've heard it stated that the chance for surviving addiction in a relationship is better if BOTH people are working on themselves (through counseling or 12 step groups). In my experience, this is very true.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of people who love addicts (I see many of them pass through our meetings) are not ready nor do they believe that they have any work to do on themselves. And for a long time.....I was one of them.

You and your wife will be in my prayers.

gentle hugs
ke

zoso77

A bumpy ride, none of which you any control over.

I encourage you to find and attend a Nar Anon and/or Al Anon meeting local to you. What you will need going forward is support from those who have been where you are and somehow survived. It's time to look after you and allow your wife to manage her own program and recovery.

Best,
ZoSo

Yogagurl

Hello and welcomet to the forum. I am married to a crack cocaine addict who has been using for the past 12 years or so. I, like you, didn't know what an "addcit" was. If you meet an addict and they are not using, it is easy to think that they have given up the drugs and will never go back. And then they start using again and it's a HELLOFA rude awakening. I have been in your shoes.

Here is what to expect: expect that this is going to be a difficult road ahead of you. Expect that, while she says that she is finished using, you can wake up the next day to find her missing and out on a bender. Addicts mean that they want to stop using, they really do. But the only thing that I can say from my experience is that they are unpridictable in actions, intentions, and emotions.

I hope that your wife gets recovery and that she is able to stop using. I am not trying to discourage you, only forewarn: crack has a very low recovery rate. According to statistics, less than 3% of people who are crack cocaine addicts recover on their own without relapse. There is always the chance for relapse, regardless of whether the addict has been sober 10 months or 10 years. You have to set boundaries with your wife and let her know that you will in no way partake to her drug use. You will not support her if she is spending her money on drugs. I am DEFINATELY telling you to do as I say and not as I do, because I have been with my AH for a LONG time when I should have walked out the door. I have financial obligations that have held me back from leaving.....

This is the way that I look at it, and it's cold and it's cruel, but, knowing what I know now, this is what I say:

Do not become involved or stay involved with a crack cocaine addict if you can help it. I would step back and wait to see how she does with sobriety.

Wishing you the best.

YG

Hanna

Welcome to Sober Recovery. Very glad you found our forum!

What you can do is read the stickies at the top of the Friends and Family Forums, then keep reading and posting here. You'll gain so much valuable insight and Experience, Strength and Hope of people that have walked in your shoes and survived.

So very sorry you are going through this, but you have definitely come to the right place. Please keep reading and keep posting.

Peace,
Hanna

incitingsilence

Drop the we, focus on I….
Find what you can do for you, and leave her to deal with what she can do for herself.

Same goes for need…
In the moment I need for me … what she needs will be something totally different.

This is her fight, yours is different.

You could give yourself an awesome gift … While she is in rehab, it gives you a chance to now focus on your own recovery which is what I suggest you do.

Also to remove the misconception, this is not her last shot, this is a chance, if she chooses to use again I would hope she found within herself reason to take another chance at recovery again. Surely that won’t have anything to do with you, and shouldn’t.

You may also have to redefine what you believe supportive to be. Being supportive means you see her as capable, you accept her as she is, and allow her to find her own way….be honest with yourself, if you can not live with an addict, then leave, it is that simple and shouldn’t have anything to do with her using or not.

Make sure you understand that your reactions to her, is about you, not something she did, or didn’t do.

Using the charges as leverage is way icky … way to much control floating around with that one.

Motive ~ should be pure, always! And decisions should never be made in hopes that it will force someone into recovery. That doesn’t tend to work.

Interference ~ well that one is interesting, the more there is, the more likely one is just keeping the addicts in their lives sick.

And to your question about her return, clean slate always, it doesn’t work any other way.

I am a master manipulator, I had an awesome teacher, my mother. Manipulation is learned behavior, don’t play the game and you don’t become her best teacher There is a sick dynamics to addiction that is within all involved. Those who watch are as sick as the addicts in their lives. Yeah I know you might not understand that now, but you may in time.

You can be part of the problem or part of the solution….choose wisely for your own sake cause one will get you well and one will keep you sick.

shaolin5

What? I'm trying to wrap my head around what you just said

shaolin5

It would seem to me that the "clean slate" you refer to, followed up by "try,try again" if this rehab stint fails, would be the ULTIMATE in enabling (or am I missing something here)

incitingsilence

Read it again...
She is capable, she can get her life together and will when she is ready. Is she ready now, who knows,and she may not even know. But that is ok, because she took a chance.

What you need for you, need to do for you has nothing to do with her.

When she comes out of rehab is she recovered, no…is she on her way to a better life, yes…
How should you treat her? As if she went to rehab to get her life together, treat her as you would wish to be treated, with respect and that she is capable of helping herself. Hell you should treat her with respect and dignity no matter if she is using or not. But that is how I feel.

If I had to encourage anything it would be for her to go into sober living, would I force it no, not from your end. If I was on the outside and she asked I would actually tell her to not go home and to continue to work on herself. I would encourage you to work on you, nothing more.

If she is try, trying again, that is her … that has NOTHING to do with you.

If you are trying, trying again , bending breaking accepting unacceptable behavior hoping that you somehow control how she will be, that will keep you sick. And it is all on you.

Enabling, defined as doing something for someone they are capable of doing themselves.
Can you live with someone in “active” addiction and not enable … this is an interesting question…Everyone has their own opinion there, but my answer would be yes. For how long, again my feeling only, oh not forever I don’t believe not for me anyway. In getting myself well I would not be able to, and it would have nothing to do with any addiction.

Should you protect yourself sure, should your protect your finances, well sure. Do you allow those in your home you can’t trust … NO… and do you know why, because it won’t be healthy for you, but it also won’t bring healthy reactions toward them. Make sense?

Resentment, what are yours and have you thought to address them…
Kinda like the lies, all this they lie, hello addict, surely makes sense and is very simple, and their lies mean nothing because it will be the ones you tell yourself.

She stole … do you see thief?
Why did she steal to feed her habit, would she have stolen if she wasn’t in active addiction probably not….do you see the dilemma. Which leads to how to treat her, should she come home from rehab and be treated as if she is in active addiction, which btw has nothing to do with actually taking a drug… What do you think? How should you treat her?

You didn’t ask what you should do if she relapses….

I would make your boundaries clear. I would say them once, because she did hear you that first time.
I would not make or say anything you will not be backing up with actions. And you need to understand that your boundaries have nothing to do with her, they are about your peace and health…not as some reaction to her using and thinking if you toss her out it will make her better, or if you reaction in this way, she will then see…

I know this is hard to understand and I also know what it is like to live with someone in active addiction, and then someone in recovery. I removed myself totally from my husband’s addiction, it was his, he was a big boy, he could find his way out. I encouraged him to do whatever he felt necessary, and kept any assignment to myself. I didn’t treat him differently, he had responsibilities just as I did. Heroin didn’t remove them, nothing did, they were still here.

I stopped asking why, I stopped needing to know how he felt or what was in his head. I bit my tongue a lot with my need to know. I didn’t assign anything as being good and or bad for, everything was a lessons he needed to learn, and mine were different. There were no reactions to using and you know you don’t get this medal cause you didn’t either, it doesn’t work like that. He needed to be the one that cared enough to reclaim his life, just as I needed to be the one to reclaim mine. Heroin took nothing from me, I gave it all away. My reactions were mine having nothing to do with him… I had my own fair share of amends to make.

I answer from such a different place but then I removed using or not using as a gauge to anything, because no one was responsible for my life but me, nor my reactions, nor my happiness….

zoso77

I remember you now. You posted in December initially about your wife.

Let me ask you something. What is it you want to hear from us that you're not hearing right now?

ZoSo

shaolin5

Fair question. It's not that I "want" to hear anything in particular. If there WAS something I would WANT to hear, it would be how to maintain a relationship with her (because I DO love her), while at the same time doing everything that I CAN do to support her in getting this disaster behind her.
BTW, her sister used for almost 7 years. Then one day, her boyfriend at the time threw her clothes out in the yard, burned her stuff, and sent her packing. She showed up at her mothers house with nothing but the clothes on her back. She has not used since. That was 4 years ago. I can't help but pray for the same success for my wife that she had. However unlikely and miraculous her quitting was.
All I know is the "boundary" I have placed is "if you come back from rehab and use again, we are finished". And I mean that. I just want to do whatever is in MY POWER to do to prevent that

zoso77

Shaolin,

If I recall correctly, you knowingly and willingly married your wife even though you knew she was an addict. And if I also recall correctly, there was also some question as to whether or not she had a character disorder. I'm not a mental health professional, so I can't make that diagnosis. That said -- and you probably don't want to hear this -- your boundary of "if you come back from rehab and use again, we are finished" probably doesn't have any teeth from her perspective. Think about it for a second, man. Her behavior while using has been absolutely atrocious -- not a surprise -- and you've still stood by her. So what makes you think she's going to take you seriously this time?

Regarding her sister, good for her. I mean it. But what did it take for her to get to that point where she was willing to entertain recovery? Her boyfriend booted her a$$ out and sent her packing. So there's quite a bit of daylight between your boundary and what this guy did.

I'm not a marriage counselor. But I am someone that has learned the hard way what addicts are capable of. The sky's the limit on that one. And what I want for you is to not be in denial anymore about what it is you're dealing with. Because you have been. And you've paid a pretty high price for that.

Think about what is best for YOU. Not what is best for your MARRIAGE. What is best for YOU.

ZoSo

incitingsilence

There is a contradiction with that above statement.

And her sister’s story is not hers, so I wouldn’t go hinging anything on that, or think that you can respond the same and get the same result.

And all of this is like wasted time, she isn’t even out yet and you have her relapsing, why?

allforcnm

I will answer this based on the experience I had with my husband. He was not an addict when we married, and only got hooked after a situation that required multiple surgeries, therapy. There was not a time I didn’t love him as a person, as my husband, even though I hated his addiction and how it was affecting him.

My husband went through a 3 month rehab that was based on individual therapy. When he was in rehab, they also set me up with my own therapist. His rehab was in another state, and so part of those sessions were in person, and part were done using skype. We also did marriage counseling through the rehab before he came home. When he did get home, he already had a plan in place to continue his recovery work with a local private therapist. I would think your wife would not be released until she has some type of aftercare plan in place. Whatever this is, it will hopefully be a great help to her as she tries to get back into “real life”. I also continued to work with a therapist, one that understood addiction issues.

In my husbands case, he was able to step back into his life without too much trouble. He had to cut out all of the old friends from work that he used drugs with. He actually requested a transfer at work to a different building, so he could be out of that environment, those reminders, away from those people.

One thing he really struggled with was coming to terms with the damage he had done while using. Often it is called shame, regret. It can manifest itself in many ways like low self esteem, lack of confidence in certain situations, trying to overcompensate to prove its all ok now. I would be sensitive to this. I think this is one area that is difficult for spouses. I had to work with my therapist in order to understand things that had happened in the past, come to terms, accept my role in it all, and grant forgiveness (to him and myself).

Marriage counseling also helped us both with this. I needed to understand his side to a certain degree before I could truly grant forgiveness. In your situation, there may be things your still suffering from: pain, anger, fear, regret. I would watch these things and how your feelings are affecting the interaction with your wife. She will feel it if its there. Someone mentioned a “clean slate”. This is what is hard when your working on your relationship I think. You want to give them a clean slate, but there is all this stuff not resolved. It all takes time and patience. I tried never to use any of those past issues against my husband when he came home. We continued marriage counseling and have worked through most all of it now.

The other thing for us was addiction & recovery stuff can take up your life if you let it. We also had to make sure we focused on rebuilding our relationship, and remembering what we loved about each other, the things we enjoyed doing together. These activities became healthy outlets for both of us, promoted healthy living for him where he associated it with being clean, and brought us closer also. Time and patience on this also.

Also keep focused on your own life because if you let it get derailed while she is home and in recovery (sometimes struggling with it) then you may once again build up resentments, or become overly emotional towards her issues.

I respect your boundary that this is the last time, and if she uses you are done. Sounds like you have been through a lot with her. This was our first time, and if he was to relapse tomorrow – I would not take our son and go. But, if it was the 10th time I might. These are all very personal decisions based on many factors. Obviously no one here can tell you what to do in your situation. Next month my husband will have 1 year clean. And we shall eat cake & celebrate !

KaraT

I believe that Al-Anon (which I have found extremely helpful by the way) has a pamphlet on that topic.

drc5426

How has her behavior and now absence affected not just you but your child?

If I recall you have a very young son who is being exposed to all of this. I was actually kind of surprised when I read this post and saw no mention of him.

Her behavior before this forced rehab stint sounds very extreme and dangerous. She crashed your car and put your guns on the street. Her actions could've easily killed someone. I don't think that it's very wise to bring someone who has behaved this way into your home when you have a minor child.

30 day treatment is a good start but should not be considered solid long term recovery.

My signifigant other (crack addict - 10 years), whom I share 2 children with went away for 28 days. Afterwards, I did not allow her home until her actions showed me she chose recovery.

Attend a Nar-Anon meeting and start reading the literature. It helps ALOT.

shaolin5

How has this affected my son? This "forced" stint in rehab has broken our family apart. Due to my work schedule, he has been staying with my sister (a teacher at his school), because it is beyond impractical to wake him up at 10 minutes til 4am to get him ready and drop him off. I see him every day, but HE is the reason there is so much urgency with all of this. If it were just me, I would just judge all of this based on my feelings alone.
He is the reason I have decided if she comes back and uses again the marriage is over.
I'm sorry guys. I have NEVER been so lost and confused in my whole life. On the one hand, I have a beautiful wife who is perfect 99% of the time. But when 'the demon' takes her over, she is.....gone. I WANT her to stop using. I WANT her to get on with her life, the way her sister has. I WANT her to be my wife and my sons mommy. The hell of it is, I KNOW SHE WANTS THESE THINGS TOO. She works WAY too hard for our family NOT to. She says she loves us both, then backs it up with loving ACTION. EXCEPT....
It's like once a month or so she just....gets possessed. Lately, things have seemed to be progressing. Totaling my car, stealing my guns and laptop, ect, all of this has happened since the new year. So something had to happen. When we talked about it, she WANTED to go to rehab. I didn't MAKE her go. It just seemed like the next logical progression in her (hopeful) eventual healing.
Again, I appreciate your help. I do. And I'm not trying to be argumentative here. YOU are doing ME a favor .....I'm just SO confused

Hanna

It's a confusing damn thing. It's just that it is not like pretty much any other problem we faced before now and the solution for most of us was not what was typical when someone we loved was ill.

If someone has ever found a way to get an addict to stop using, I haven't read about it here or anywhere else. These boards are filled with stories of how we all tried.

- Begging and pleading didn't work
- Talking rationally didn't work
- Guilting them didn't work (and probably made things worse)
- Spending ridiculous sums of money didn't work
- Abandoning them didn't really work, either
- Loving my addict unconditionally while setting boundaries and taking care of myself- that's what made my life manageable again.

That was just my own experience. All I can offer you is prayers and support. The advice to keep reading and posting here, and hope that things can get better and often do eventually.

It will get worse if she doesn't choose recovery. 99% is not manageable for long for most addicts. It might help you to read the New to Recovery Forums and get a better idea of what it's like from the addict side.

Just please know that you are not alone.

Peace,
Hanna

Kindeyes

I can "hear" the anguish I your post. The anxiety. The fear. The desperation. I have felt those feelings too. And I'm so sorry that you are having to deal with the shrapnel of addiction.

I divorced my XAH. He didn't want help. He didn't think he needed it. 30 years later....he is still addicted, angry, and blames the world for his problems. Divorce was the right thing for me to do in my case. Your wife is getting help......and that's a really good thing. My son is the current addict in my life and I don't want to "divorce" him but I will distance myself from him if he is in active addiction....to the point of no contact if necessary. But today...he is in recovery.....and I reside in today.

Your question here is "What should I expect?"

Nothing. No matter what your expectations are, she will do something that will not meet them which will result in disappointment and anger for both of you. I thought people were nuts when they told me to let go of my expectations.....how the heck does one DO that? It seemed.....well.....impossible. But it's not.

Expectations are often created by imagining how things are going to "be" or should be (in our opinion) or how others tell us things "should be". We picture all of this inside of our heads and create scenarios.....that is the birth of expectations. And then if things don't play out in this preconceived way......resentment sets in. This is the essence of "future tripping".....and most people do it. It is not accepting what is "now".....this moment......today.

Instead of focusing on what to expect.....perhaps you might consider focusing on what your boundaries are. Focus on changing the manner in which you react. Focus on you.

Once I got that concept.....and changed that which I do control (me)......and stopped the expectations and replaced them with boundaries.....things improved for me and also for most of the people around me too! (Not just the addict!)

There are so many behaviors associated with addiction. It is unreasonable to expect someone to go through a 28 day "spin dry" and POOF they are the perfect person we wanted them to be. It takes a WHOLE lot of work to change behaviors....and time....a whole lot more than 28 days. That's just the beginning.

Personally, I have embraced the concept of working the program that I wish he would. It helps me stay focused on me and my own emotional, physical, and spiritual health. If I stand back and hope (or expect) someone else to change without implementing serious changes in my OWN behaviors.....eventually.....things will lapse back into what they were.....

I don't know if anything I've written is helpful to you. It is simply some of the things that have been useful to me but it took a long time and lots of missteps along the way. You and your wife will be in my prayers.

gentle hugs
ke