Do you think this is codependent/enabling?
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Do you think this is codependent/enabling?
I'm sure there is an element of enabling here (otherwise I wouldn't even be asking the question)...
But here's the situation it might help me to talk out:
My husband's mom is sick. He's out of state taking care of her. The first few days he was down there, he was distraught and went on binge with pills and alcohol. That really sucked.
Now he is still down there but he is not using and we are in a lot of contact with each other and while I've been surrendering to the fact that I can't control him, I am also letting myself feel love and connection with him again.
So in addition to the stuff with his mom, we also went through a nightmare period that we are recovering from. Emotions are everywhere basically and he has a lot of decisions to make regarding his mom and it's been overwhelming and depressing for him.
Mostly when we he calls, I do a lot of listening and empathizing about what a challenging time it's been for him down there. I am letting go of trying to control him so I find that the more I listen and don't say anything, the more I just watch that he finds his way at some point. And if he asks me what I think, I will tell him, but otherwise, I am practicing not saving him.
Where do I think it might be getting codependent?
The part where I am giving him tons of emotional support right now.
I know he just came off a bender and experienced a lot of stress in our marriage, his mom is in a serious situation and he's feeling pretty broken right now being alone down there with his mom trying to figure everything out and avoid blow ups with some of the estranged (and alcoholic) family members that came on the scene recently.
Thinking about whether or not my emotional support is giving him too much care and understanding -- in the sense that maybe I'm giving off the vibe that I am okay with what he did just with the binge and see, everything's going to be okay and I'm here with you listening and i'm on your side and we can get through this together...that type of stuff.
Where I think I'm catching myself is that...yes...this is what I'm doing...
I'm being especially loving and supportive because underneath that is a hope that if he sees that I love him so much and will be there for him in his time of need, that he will want to do something for me and stop being an addict.
Yeah, that outcome is still there in my head. That's why I gotta keep working steps 1-2-3.
So my overniceness is part of where I am feeling my codependency.
It's not stressful for me to be on the phone with him. I feel good about it, but I also feel like I'm DOING something positive FOR HIM which is where it gets codependent.
Like I need to prove to HIM that I still love him after he used like he did.
Oh man, that's twisted.
He's the one that f-ed up and I feel like I have something prove to HIM?
This is definitely codependent! LOL
(So glad I decided to write about this and talk it out -- definitely needed to see this.)
He's not asking me for money right now, but in a way I letting myself be sucked into his drama right now.
But it's also my mother-in-law! And my husband! And the interplay of her life with our lives and what's going to happen with her as she keeps aging and needing more and more support...
So it's important that I be a part of the conversation -- but I'm asking myself about the level of involvement vs. detachment I think.
But I need to be careful here...
We are in the calm after the storm right now - my husband and I.
This time it is different because I am in Al Anon recovery now...
But it is not different in that the stuff hit the fan and now we are in the apology, accepting, whatever type of phase where it could easily go back into DENIAL again. NOooooooo!
So that's another part of it for me --
Forgetting that my husband is an addict...
He is a human going through some difficult emotions related to his mother's situation. I can listen to him and be there for him to talk to. I love him!
But remembering that my husband is an addict...
I don't know what I'm "supposed to be doing" during this time to guard against another disaster blowing up in my face when he uses again.
Hmmm. Yeah, still trying to control him.
Oh! It's the boundaries thing.
I don't get it. LOL
How the heck do you make boundaries without it being about trying to control the other person?
Would really love to hear your thoughts on that....(and anything else that you think would help me see myself better in this situation.)
But here's the situation it might help me to talk out:
My husband's mom is sick. He's out of state taking care of her. The first few days he was down there, he was distraught and went on binge with pills and alcohol. That really sucked.
Now he is still down there but he is not using and we are in a lot of contact with each other and while I've been surrendering to the fact that I can't control him, I am also letting myself feel love and connection with him again.
So in addition to the stuff with his mom, we also went through a nightmare period that we are recovering from. Emotions are everywhere basically and he has a lot of decisions to make regarding his mom and it's been overwhelming and depressing for him.
Mostly when we he calls, I do a lot of listening and empathizing about what a challenging time it's been for him down there. I am letting go of trying to control him so I find that the more I listen and don't say anything, the more I just watch that he finds his way at some point. And if he asks me what I think, I will tell him, but otherwise, I am practicing not saving him.
Where do I think it might be getting codependent?
The part where I am giving him tons of emotional support right now.
I know he just came off a bender and experienced a lot of stress in our marriage, his mom is in a serious situation and he's feeling pretty broken right now being alone down there with his mom trying to figure everything out and avoid blow ups with some of the estranged (and alcoholic) family members that came on the scene recently.
Thinking about whether or not my emotional support is giving him too much care and understanding -- in the sense that maybe I'm giving off the vibe that I am okay with what he did just with the binge and see, everything's going to be okay and I'm here with you listening and i'm on your side and we can get through this together...that type of stuff.
Where I think I'm catching myself is that...yes...this is what I'm doing...
I'm being especially loving and supportive because underneath that is a hope that if he sees that I love him so much and will be there for him in his time of need, that he will want to do something for me and stop being an addict.
Yeah, that outcome is still there in my head. That's why I gotta keep working steps 1-2-3.
So my overniceness is part of where I am feeling my codependency.
It's not stressful for me to be on the phone with him. I feel good about it, but I also feel like I'm DOING something positive FOR HIM which is where it gets codependent.
Like I need to prove to HIM that I still love him after he used like he did.
Oh man, that's twisted.
He's the one that f-ed up and I feel like I have something prove to HIM?
This is definitely codependent! LOL
(So glad I decided to write about this and talk it out -- definitely needed to see this.)
He's not asking me for money right now, but in a way I letting myself be sucked into his drama right now.
But it's also my mother-in-law! And my husband! And the interplay of her life with our lives and what's going to happen with her as she keeps aging and needing more and more support...
So it's important that I be a part of the conversation -- but I'm asking myself about the level of involvement vs. detachment I think.
But I need to be careful here...
We are in the calm after the storm right now - my husband and I.
This time it is different because I am in Al Anon recovery now...
But it is not different in that the stuff hit the fan and now we are in the apology, accepting, whatever type of phase where it could easily go back into DENIAL again. NOooooooo!
So that's another part of it for me --
Forgetting that my husband is an addict...
He is a human going through some difficult emotions related to his mother's situation. I can listen to him and be there for him to talk to. I love him!
But remembering that my husband is an addict...
I don't know what I'm "supposed to be doing" during this time to guard against another disaster blowing up in my face when he uses again.
Hmmm. Yeah, still trying to control him.
Oh! It's the boundaries thing.
I don't get it. LOL
How the heck do you make boundaries without it being about trying to control the other person?
Would really love to hear your thoughts on that....(and anything else that you think would help me see myself better in this situation.)
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More...
I am afraid of continuing to express myself about how I felt about what happened during the binge time...so instead, I try to keep the peace and focus on the nice stuff.
I'm afraid of being like, ya know what? I'm still pissed about what happened during the binge and I don't really want to hear you talk about your drunk cousin who just got his 3rd Dui and I don't want to hear about the helpless situation you think you're in with your mom....and how hard everything is..and what a difficult childhood you had with your mother...and now it's so weird being on this end of things...and how you have no support from other family and blah blah blah...
You think it's not hard for ME!? You want special attention because your mom is sick so I should give you a free pass to use drugs and alcohol, be an a'hole and a terrible husband and that I should just "love you no matter what?"
I don't say any of these things to him anymore because he appears wounded and I HAVE A TERRIBLE WEAKNESS FOR SEEING WOUNDED MEN AND THINKING I NEED TO SAVE THEM.
Oh man. So much.
I can see that in some ways I would be so much better off if I just told him, you need to figure this stuff out with your mom on your own. But - this is where I get tripped up...
My wanting to say that to him is becuase part of me wants to punish him! I want to punish him like you're an addict and you screwed up and you messed stuff up with us and so THERE you don't get to talk to me anymore or have my love and support.
Ouch that is not only awful, but it's also (again!) trying to control him.
So either way I am trying to control him. I want to punish him and put him down (Bad Dog) or I want to be super nice and try to build him up (Good dog!)
Haven't found what is just honest for me yet I guess.
Hmmpfh.
Basically I have no clue how I'm supposed to be interacting with him. I'm just feeling my way around in the dark , and I know parts of what i'm doing are codependent -- i just don't know what to do about it!? (Except keep coming back and working my steps...which is exactly what I need to do. LOL)
I am afraid of continuing to express myself about how I felt about what happened during the binge time...so instead, I try to keep the peace and focus on the nice stuff.
I'm afraid of being like, ya know what? I'm still pissed about what happened during the binge and I don't really want to hear you talk about your drunk cousin who just got his 3rd Dui and I don't want to hear about the helpless situation you think you're in with your mom....and how hard everything is..and what a difficult childhood you had with your mother...and now it's so weird being on this end of things...and how you have no support from other family and blah blah blah...
You think it's not hard for ME!? You want special attention because your mom is sick so I should give you a free pass to use drugs and alcohol, be an a'hole and a terrible husband and that I should just "love you no matter what?"
I don't say any of these things to him anymore because he appears wounded and I HAVE A TERRIBLE WEAKNESS FOR SEEING WOUNDED MEN AND THINKING I NEED TO SAVE THEM.
Oh man. So much.
I can see that in some ways I would be so much better off if I just told him, you need to figure this stuff out with your mom on your own. But - this is where I get tripped up...
My wanting to say that to him is becuase part of me wants to punish him! I want to punish him like you're an addict and you screwed up and you messed stuff up with us and so THERE you don't get to talk to me anymore or have my love and support.
Ouch that is not only awful, but it's also (again!) trying to control him.
So either way I am trying to control him. I want to punish him and put him down (Bad Dog) or I want to be super nice and try to build him up (Good dog!)
Haven't found what is just honest for me yet I guess.
Hmmpfh.
Basically I have no clue how I'm supposed to be interacting with him. I'm just feeling my way around in the dark , and I know parts of what i'm doing are codependent -- i just don't know what to do about it!? (Except keep coming back and working my steps...which is exactly what I need to do. LOL)
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how would you handle this if addiction was not part of the picture???
then do that.
yeah, by being all nicey nice in the aftermath that can "imply" it's ok that you used. especially if one is going to care for one's aged ailing parent, getting f'd up is SO self absorbed. was he taking HER pills to boot? you want to send the message that hey I still love you - but to the addict it comes across as "i got away with it, look at what this broad will put up with" - give em an inch, they'll take a mile.
dealing with sick parents is part of being a grown up. people do it all the time. this is where HE gets to man up. sure it's tough, for anyone. of course you are concerned, but it will still play out the way it plays out of which you have no control.
bottom line, he used again. what are your boundaries about your ongoing involvement with an active addict? is this one of those "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" things? is it OK that he USED his mother's illness as AN EXCUSE to get f'd up? and that he's still pulling the oh poor me card?? is he standing tall and walking proud and making clear well thought out decisions?
just food for thought...
then do that.
yeah, by being all nicey nice in the aftermath that can "imply" it's ok that you used. especially if one is going to care for one's aged ailing parent, getting f'd up is SO self absorbed. was he taking HER pills to boot? you want to send the message that hey I still love you - but to the addict it comes across as "i got away with it, look at what this broad will put up with" - give em an inch, they'll take a mile.
dealing with sick parents is part of being a grown up. people do it all the time. this is where HE gets to man up. sure it's tough, for anyone. of course you are concerned, but it will still play out the way it plays out of which you have no control.
bottom line, he used again. what are your boundaries about your ongoing involvement with an active addict? is this one of those "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" things? is it OK that he USED his mother's illness as AN EXCUSE to get f'd up? and that he's still pulling the oh poor me card?? is he standing tall and walking proud and making clear well thought out decisions?
just food for thought...
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Sounds like its still all about him, his problems and his needs. But you are getting something from it. Have you figured out what is yet?
As I learned more and more about me and my codependency, I discovered many of my unselfish and caring" behaviors had an underlying motive. For example, when I was involved in my husbands problems, I felt important and it gave me a sense of self worth. It was also a distraction from looking at my own.
Keep learning about codependency and you see your own behaviors so more clearly. Sometimes, it's still tricky because it can be very difficult to examine our own motives.
As I learned more and more about me and my codependency, I discovered many of my unselfish and caring" behaviors had an underlying motive. For example, when I was involved in my husbands problems, I felt important and it gave me a sense of self worth. It was also a distraction from looking at my own.
Keep learning about codependency and you see your own behaviors so more clearly. Sometimes, it's still tricky because it can be very difficult to examine our own motives.
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WOW...you have no idea how much I needed to read this part:
I have been struggling with this because right now he is not using. I am being lulled into the possibility of him not using again.
But he is still an active addict because he DID just use...and he is NOT in any kind of recovery.
This is a progressive disease. It is only going to get WORSE.
And as an active addict he will definitely USE AGAIN.
And it's going to impact me if I'm around for it.
Oy. This is sinking in more. This dog is gonna bite me again unless I stop hanging around it or the dog gets some training.
Please keep it comin' anvil...I need to see this stuff.
what are your boundaries about your ongoing involvement with an active addict?
But he is still an active addict because he DID just use...and he is NOT in any kind of recovery.
This is a progressive disease. It is only going to get WORSE.
And as an active addict he will definitely USE AGAIN.
And it's going to impact me if I'm around for it.
Oy. This is sinking in more. This dog is gonna bite me again unless I stop hanging around it or the dog gets some training.
Please keep it comin' anvil...I need to see this stuff.
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Originally Posted by LoveMeNow 
Sounds like its still all about him, his problems and his needs. But you are getting something from it. Have you figured out what is yet?
As I learned more and more about me and my codependency, I discovered many of my unselfish and caring" behaviors had an underlying motive. For example, when I was involved in my husbands problems, I felt important and it gave me a sense of self worth. It was also a distraction from looking at my own.
Keep learning about codependency and you see your own behaviors so more clearly. Sometimes, it's still tricky because it can be very difficult to examine our own motives.
As I learned more and more about me and my codependency, I discovered many of my unselfish and caring" behaviors had an underlying motive. For example, when I was involved in my husbands problems, I felt important and it gave me a sense of self worth. It was also a distraction from looking at my own.
Keep learning about codependency and you see your own behaviors so more clearly. Sometimes, it's still tricky because it can be very difficult to examine our own motives.
It's totally all about him. LOL
Oh man. What a trip. This is my codependency at its best.
I do get a sense of self-worth out of it -- like being able to tell myself that I'm a compassionate, understanding person. A good and loving wife.
I don't want to be seen as a witch. I don't want to be seen as selfish or uncaring.
So yeah, it is all about him -- even sometimes my recovery is about him because I'm so aware of what happened with the latest binge.
I am doing my steps and going to meetings, but I am not doing it 100% just for me as if i were going to go get my nails done.
It feels like I'm doing this for US. It feels like I'm doing it for him so that I can learn more about the disease and be able to help him. I don't even think he gets that it IS a disease.
And I'm not supposed to tell him he has "the cancer?" I'm supposed to let him get sick enough and fall on his face until right at the last minute he decides to find out what it is and THEN he realizes he's gotta treat it?
My Codependt No More book shoudl be here tomorrow -- as if I don't have enough stuff to read!? LOL
Big Book AA
Blue Book Al Anon
Paths to Recovery Al Anon
And two of the little daily readers for Al Anon.
All the great stuff on this forum...
But It will be good to read specifically about codependency.
SO SO appreciative of your reply. Really helping me look at myself more clearly and closely. I need it now.
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How the heck do you make boundaries without it being about trying to control the other person?
I will not live with, associate with, or communicate with anyone in active addiction, and I will not live with, associate with, or communicate with anyone who has less than a year in active recovery."
Now that is just me, but that was my one and only boundary, yes I did tell my husband that (the husband that changed his DOC from Alcohol to Gambling), and I gave it to him in writing also. He moved out. Hemmed and hawed and after 6 months of him not doing a damn thing, I filed for divorce.
To this day, that is my 'boundary.' The only thing that changes it, is if I am sponsoring an A that is in recovery and then it is just a sponsor/sponsee relationship.
It sounds hard, I know it does, but once I put it on paper in black and white and carried that piece of paper with me, (I also taped one up on the bathroom mirror) it really was not as difficult as I thought it would be.
This is about YOU, not him. This is about you living in peace and serenity without the roller coasters and train rides of addiction. Your boundary will not be enabling!
J M H O
Love and hugs,
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
how would you handle this if addiction was not part of the picture???
then do that.
yeah, by being all nicey nice in the aftermath that can "imply" it's ok that you used. especially if one is going to care for one's aged ailing parent, getting f'd up is SO self absorbed. was he taking HER pills to boot? you want to send the message that hey I still love you - but to the addict it comes across as "i got away with it, look at what this broad will put up with" - give em an inch, they'll take a mile.
dealing with sick parents is part of being a grown up. people do it all the time. this is where HE gets to man up. sure it's tough, for anyone. of course you are concerned, but it will still play out the way it plays out of which you have no control.
bottom line, he used again. what are your boundaries about your ongoing involvement with an active addict? is this one of those "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" things? is it OK that he USED his mother's illness as AN EXCUSE to get f'd up? and that he's still pulling the oh poor me card?? is he standing tall and walking proud and making clear well thought out decisions?
just food for thought...
then do that.
yeah, by being all nicey nice in the aftermath that can "imply" it's ok that you used. especially if one is going to care for one's aged ailing parent, getting f'd up is SO self absorbed. was he taking HER pills to boot? you want to send the message that hey I still love you - but to the addict it comes across as "i got away with it, look at what this broad will put up with" - give em an inch, they'll take a mile.
dealing with sick parents is part of being a grown up. people do it all the time. this is where HE gets to man up. sure it's tough, for anyone. of course you are concerned, but it will still play out the way it plays out of which you have no control.
bottom line, he used again. what are your boundaries about your ongoing involvement with an active addict? is this one of those "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" things? is it OK that he USED his mother's illness as AN EXCUSE to get f'd up? and that he's still pulling the oh poor me card?? is he standing tall and walking proud and making clear well thought out decisions?
just food for thought...
So much good stuff for me in this reply -- where to even start?
- Like the idea of coming from what I would do if the addiction weren't in the picture. It would definitely be what I"m doing...with the listening and stuff...but now that I'm seeing that I'm codpendent (not just with him but with others too) I don't know what part of that kindness is honest in me and what part of it is my codependcy. :-P
- Super good point about it being so self-absorbed to get f-ed up while his mom is in the situation she is. And yes, they were her pills that he took. More selfishness. Gross. This disease is awful.
- Yeah, he's definitely playing the poor me card and boo hoo my mom is going to die some day. I fall right into it because it is so hard for me to see men who are needy. I even hear myself telling him I wish he were home so I could hold him and stroke his hair...as if he even finds that comforting!? I have no idea if it means anything to him when I caress him that way. That's just what I LIKE to experience when I'm sad or going through something.
- And he could definitely use some MANNING UP! Sometimes I do just want to say to him, Dude, I know your mom is going to die some day, but you thinking about it over and over right now is NOT HELPING. It's making you depressed and you're getting into a funk and it makes it harder for you to think clearly. STOP IT YOU BIG BABY!
(Nah...I don't have any hidden/unspoken rage toward my husband. LOL)
Pfffft.
This stuff is making me laugh at myself, but I know it's also the real deal stuff that I need to face.
I am DEFINITELY angry about what's happened with discovering he's an addict..and I have no really processed that yet. I've just tried to go into my steps and start surrendering.
Will bring up this anger thing at my Al Non meeting tonight so I can hear myself talk it out more.
Thanks ANVIL!
P.S. No -- it's not okay that he used this as an excuse to get messed up. I hate it and I don't like it...but I feel like if I say more about it, then it's stupid because I can't control him anway...but I still feel like he needs to know what I experienced and how I felt about it -- just so that he knows even if he keeps using or stops I don't care...I just feel like as my husband, he needs to know how it affected me. Maybe self-expression of hurt and anger and whatever is okay if I can just do it for my sake and not because the intention is for him to change because of it? I just want him to know.
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I will not live with, associate with, or communicate with anyone in active addiction, and I will not live with, associate with, or communicate with anyone who has less than a year in active recovery."
I'm having a DUH kind of moment here...
As if I would be letting any other active addict anywhere near me?
As I'd be friends with someone like that?
As if I'd share my hopes with them and let them into my heart?
If I met some active addict on the street right now I'd be like, no thanks, I have a lot of better options for friends right now.
But this one...this one is my husband.
He's the one I married before I even knew that he was an addict.
I didn't see the signs clearly enough. And I didn't know anything about addiction.
So we are married because I love him.
But he is now also in another category of people that I would not ordinarily choose to hang out with.
<deep sigh>
You are giving me a lot to think about. Thank you. Really.
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There is a part of me that feels sick/unhealthy/codependent every time I answer the phone when he calls. I know that he is an addict...and now with the distinction of yes, he's an active addict since he just used and is not in any recovery...I am always thinking of that in the back of my mind when we talk.
It is like a little mold growing and making me sick each time I am in the vicinity of it.
My husband is oozing addict disease still and when I am on the phone with him, and we're picking up the pieces as we are...I still smell it and feel it. UGH.
It is like a little mold growing and making me sick each time I am in the vicinity of it.
My husband is oozing addict disease still and when I am on the phone with him, and we're picking up the pieces as we are...I still smell it and feel it. UGH.
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By talking to him on the phone and helping him sort his problems out related to his mom while he is not in active recovery, I am not empowering him to man up and take responsibility for himself. I'm just playing along in his addict drama -- and it is definitely drama because he and other family members are addicts. If the same thing were happening with my mom it would not look like this at all because i'm not an addict!
I am afraid of him feeling like I've abandoned him...but I'm also clear that when he chooses to use, he abandons me and our marriage.
That boundary you shared, Laurie is clear and strong. I can fee the power in it and self-love and self-respect. Dang woman. You rule. Your coyote/wolf totem is SO representative of how I'm feelin' you right now.
I am afraid of him feeling like I've abandoned him...but I'm also clear that when he chooses to use, he abandons me and our marriage.
That boundary you shared, Laurie is clear and strong. I can fee the power in it and self-love and self-respect. Dang woman. You rule. Your coyote/wolf totem is SO representative of how I'm feelin' you right now.
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Whhhaaaaa...this is sad. I don't like feeling sick when I'm with my husband. I don't like feeling like addiction is oozing on me.
Just because he is not using does not mean that he is not oozing addiction and I'm not being affected by it.
I AM BEING AFFECTED BY IT
How much longer will I continue to breathe it in is the question.
How much longer will I put up with this kind of air quality?
When will I submit a formal complaint so that something could (possibly!) be done about it?
Just because he is not using does not mean that he is not oozing addiction and I'm not being affected by it.
I AM BEING AFFECTED BY IT
How much longer will I continue to breathe it in is the question.
How much longer will I put up with this kind of air quality?
When will I submit a formal complaint so that something could (possibly!) be done about it?
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Originally Posted by cynical one
Am I understanding that someone who is in active addiction and binging on pills and booze is making medical decisions and providing care for his mother? Does this not seem dangerous?
He is power of attorney and has access to her bank account right now. During his binge he binged on shopping and spent like $3k on new tech gadgets.
Now that he's in a period of not using, he is talking about how he needs to be more conservative with her money.
I'm just watching it from afar and i can't do anything about it...
When I knew he was taking the pills, I called the hospital anonymously to try to see if they could get them back from "wherever they might be" amonst her belongings, but she said she couldn't and that her things were released to her son. That's when he got her purse and got into her klonopin.
The nurse has the pills nows becuase she discovered that he had given his mom back the bottle and she was hiding them in her sheets for later. They took the pills because she should not be taking them as she used to in her current condition. So at least they are in the nurse's hands now.
It's a messed up situation down there for sure. I'm glad I didn't decide to fly down there to HELP THINGS as I had considered doing in the beginning when I thought i needed to rescue my husband out of his binge. Hopeless.
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I remember when I used to think my husband used a few pills here and there. One time, I went away for a week and he told me he took a few pills, a couple of nights. I believed him. Looking back, I was so naive. It may have started out that way but he was way past that point. A few pills, a couple of nights? More like several pills, several times a day. It was all he could think about. There was no stopping it at that point. He may have white knuckled a day or two but then needed them to feel normal and stop the compulsive urges.
I am not saying your husband is at this progressive point in his addiction but if not yet, it won't be long.
I am not saying your husband is at this progressive point in his addiction but if not yet, it won't be long.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
How the heck do you make boundaries without it being about trying to control the other person?
I will not ask anyone to do something that I am not willing to do myself.
I will not allow people that I suspect are high on drugs be around me or my children. I will ask them to leave or I will leave the situation.
I will not be yelled at or treated disrespectfully. I will walk away.
I will not financially support an adult who is capable of supporting his or herself. I will ask them to leave my house. If they will not leave I will have them removed.
I will not allow people to swear in front of my child. I will not expose him to that kind of behavior.
And so on and so forth.
Try writing down your boundaries as "I" statements. And then tape them somewhere you can see them every day.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 430
Originally Posted by LoveMeNow
I remember when I used to think my husband used a few pills here and there. One time, I went away for a week and he told me he took a few pills, a couple of nights. I believed him. Looking back, I was so naive. It may have started out that way but he was way past that point. A few pills, a couple of nights? More like several pills, several times a day. It was all he could think about. There was no stopping it at that point. He may have white knuckled a day or two but then needed them to feel normal and stop the compulsive urges.
I am not saying your husband is at this progressive point in his addiction but if not yet, it won't be long.
I am not saying your husband is at this progressive point in his addiction but if not yet, it won't be long.
I want to be like, Noooo he's going to be the exception and it won't be progressive in his case. But that's ridiculous.
It is progressive. He is an addict. And while it's not to the point that he is physcially addicted to them and needs to prevent detoxing or something like that, he definitely keeps using...and has been using on and off in this way since middle school.
It's not going away unless he gets into recovery.
Thanks for the reality check. Humbling.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 430
Originally Posted by hello-kitty
My boundaries are for me and the kind of behavior I will accept in this world and they give me a plan for how I will react if one of the boundaries are violated. They aren't geared towards one particular person. They are based on my values and my beliefs. And the only person I control with them is me.
I will not ask anyone to do something that I am not willing to do myself.
I will not allow people that I suspect are high on drugs be around me or my children. I will ask them to leave or I will leave the situation.
I will not be yelled at or treated disrespectfully. I will walk away.
I will not financially support an adult who is capable of supporting his or herself. I will ask them to leave my house. If they will not leave I will have them removed.
I will not allow people to swear in front of my child. I will not expose him to that kind of behavior.
And so on and so forth.
Try writing down your boundaries as "I" statements. And then tape them somewhere you can see them every day.
I will not ask anyone to do something that I am not willing to do myself.
I will not allow people that I suspect are high on drugs be around me or my children. I will ask them to leave or I will leave the situation.
I will not be yelled at or treated disrespectfully. I will walk away.
I will not financially support an adult who is capable of supporting his or herself. I will ask them to leave my house. If they will not leave I will have them removed.
I will not allow people to swear in front of my child. I will not expose him to that kind of behavior.
And so on and so forth.
Try writing down your boundaries as "I" statements. And then tape them somewhere you can see them every day.
That makes a ton of sense to put them as I statements.
I do that with positive affirmations lots of times...but I can already tell that I am scared to lay down a boundary and stick with it.
Really. It feels frightening somehow. I am afraid of being disapproved of and not liked and retaliated against.
I really can't think of many boundaries that i've had ever in my life. Hmpf.
Obviously it's time for some. I'm really going to be doing some inner work around this boundary stuff. thank you so much.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
I am afraid of him feeling like I've abandoned him
how would you be ABANDONING him? is he five and you left him in Walmart? oddly enough we just watched the movie Joe Dirt yesterday (yes it was a cerebral kind of day!? not!) and it starts out with him getting left behind by his parents at the Grand Canyon. THAT would be abandonment....leaving a defenseless child with no parental guardian at an extremely large national park.
unless we are on the field of combat, or perhaps diving off a ship that is exploding, etc, we adults do not abandon ADULTS. the very concept of adult implies fully functional individuals, grown humans.
thing about drug addicts, they are a crafty bunch. they will go to great lengths, go thru great risk, trauma, and danger to assure their supply. creative. and stupid. I remember when hank and I made a run to get some rock....on CHRISTMAS EVE to one of the largest shopping centers in our area!!! the highest traffic concentration of the YEAR? cops everywhere directing traffic? didn't phase us one bit. we hooked up with kris and k, and made like a rocket for home.
don't be fooled hon. take the blinders off. they say addicts will steal from their own mother for a hit. your AH stole pills from his sick MOTHER. he no longer has boundaries, limitations, or much in the way of values.
nor did I - my daughter was in college in LA, her dad became very sick with cancer and she flew up here to be with him. she stayed at our house. one night we were hiding in our bedroom, smoking tough, 11at night, and we set off the damn smoke detector!!? my kid was in the other bedroom, she was with me cuz her dad (my 1st ex) was DYING and yet........there I was. that's the sick sh*t that drugs will make ya do...when you let them.
how would you be ABANDONING him? is he five and you left him in Walmart? oddly enough we just watched the movie Joe Dirt yesterday (yes it was a cerebral kind of day!? not!) and it starts out with him getting left behind by his parents at the Grand Canyon. THAT would be abandonment....leaving a defenseless child with no parental guardian at an extremely large national park.
unless we are on the field of combat, or perhaps diving off a ship that is exploding, etc, we adults do not abandon ADULTS. the very concept of adult implies fully functional individuals, grown humans.
thing about drug addicts, they are a crafty bunch. they will go to great lengths, go thru great risk, trauma, and danger to assure their supply. creative. and stupid. I remember when hank and I made a run to get some rock....on CHRISTMAS EVE to one of the largest shopping centers in our area!!! the highest traffic concentration of the YEAR? cops everywhere directing traffic? didn't phase us one bit. we hooked up with kris and k, and made like a rocket for home.
don't be fooled hon. take the blinders off. they say addicts will steal from their own mother for a hit. your AH stole pills from his sick MOTHER. he no longer has boundaries, limitations, or much in the way of values.
nor did I - my daughter was in college in LA, her dad became very sick with cancer and she flew up here to be with him. she stayed at our house. one night we were hiding in our bedroom, smoking tough, 11at night, and we set off the damn smoke detector!!? my kid was in the other bedroom, she was with me cuz her dad (my 1st ex) was DYING and yet........there I was. that's the sick sh*t that drugs will make ya do...when you let them.
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,927
I'm reading your thread and I don't think you are as mixed up as you think. When you are saying that right now your husband is not using and you feel like showering him with attention, treating him like normal, having intimate conversations, sharing the burden he faces with his mother: basically your instincts are telling you hey, he is not using, he is my husband again and I'm going to respond to that in a positive way. That is positive reinforcement to his current behavior. This method is actually practiced by many people who are dealing with a loved one in addiction. It is not incorrect, or wrong thinking.
If you believe that negative consequences affect a persons desire to use drugs, then this concept should not be hard to relate to. While negative consequences often take a period of time to build up and present themselves to the addict; positive responses/consequences do also. But it actually has a high degree of success in getting a person to realize they have a drug problem and need help if done properly.
When my husband was in rehab, my therapist suggested lots of books for me to read. One of the books was called: Get Your Loved One Sober: Alternatives to Nagging, Pleading, and Threatening by Robert J. Meyers PhD
This concept is a large part of the book. This concept is also used in what is called Community Reinforcement Approach and Family Training. (CRAFT for short). It is used by family members who have loved ones with addiction issues. It has proven results of getting people into treatment.
Family & Friends - An Alternative to Al-Anon and Intervention
This concept is also supported by Self Management and Recovery Training otherwise known as the SMART method of recovery.
Self Help Substance Abuse & Addiction Recovery | SMART Recovery®
On the codependency issue; just want you to know that positive reinforcement to your husband does not mean that you are codependent. You actually have to create boundaries for yourself in order to provide positive response. If you are not consistent in your responses, then you are sending mixed signals. It is a process of learning for you, just as it is for him. You define what is acceptable for you, and if he cannot meet that, then you enforce your boundary.
For example, your phone conversations while he is away and not using- if this is what you would normally do, if you view this as the act of a supportive wife, and feel it provides positive reinforcement in terms of your relationship, and they make you feel good – then feel good ! But likewise, if he called while high and was incoherent, and this is something that you don’t want to deal with then based on your boundary, you would remove your support with calm explanation that you can't talk when he is high.
There is a lot more to the techniques, but won't get into it here. That is why I posted the links to The SMART/CRAFT website. They also have a forum, online meetings and are starting to have live meetings in certain locations. It has all been very helpful to me, and eye-opening, and that is why I am sharing it with you.
Also, I think the key to understanding that while providing support to your husband may have a positive impact; it won't get him clean. He has to figure that out on his own. Something will however trigger him- it will either be something positive or something negative. But it comes from within him. It's up to him. If you think about it that way, then maybe it will give you the freedom to live as you choose, knowing your not responsible for his decisions, your just living your life in a manner that is best for you.
My husband was addicted to pain meds, and one thing I want to share is that in my husbands case, the use of drugs became part of his coping mechanism. He used it to avoid feeling, to make the bad go away. When he was using and not in treatment, he did not have the tools within himself to cope properly. So in your husbands case, I feel for him. He is dealing with his mothers serious illness, is unstable emotionally, has no tools to cope. I understand your saying he needs to man up, and I agree. My husband needed to man up also, but it helped take some of my anger away when I talked to his doctors and realized his brain chemistry was altered due to the drug use, and his emotional state was being affected by this also.
I am sending a big hug your way, and I hope that you find some sense of order amid the chaos. I know you will get there in time. Also hope your husband finds his way out. Mine finally did, and now he is almost 11 months clean.
If you believe that negative consequences affect a persons desire to use drugs, then this concept should not be hard to relate to. While negative consequences often take a period of time to build up and present themselves to the addict; positive responses/consequences do also. But it actually has a high degree of success in getting a person to realize they have a drug problem and need help if done properly.
When my husband was in rehab, my therapist suggested lots of books for me to read. One of the books was called: Get Your Loved One Sober: Alternatives to Nagging, Pleading, and Threatening by Robert J. Meyers PhD
This concept is a large part of the book. This concept is also used in what is called Community Reinforcement Approach and Family Training. (CRAFT for short). It is used by family members who have loved ones with addiction issues. It has proven results of getting people into treatment.
Family & Friends - An Alternative to Al-Anon and Intervention
This concept is also supported by Self Management and Recovery Training otherwise known as the SMART method of recovery.
Self Help Substance Abuse & Addiction Recovery | SMART Recovery®
On the codependency issue; just want you to know that positive reinforcement to your husband does not mean that you are codependent. You actually have to create boundaries for yourself in order to provide positive response. If you are not consistent in your responses, then you are sending mixed signals. It is a process of learning for you, just as it is for him. You define what is acceptable for you, and if he cannot meet that, then you enforce your boundary.
For example, your phone conversations while he is away and not using- if this is what you would normally do, if you view this as the act of a supportive wife, and feel it provides positive reinforcement in terms of your relationship, and they make you feel good – then feel good ! But likewise, if he called while high and was incoherent, and this is something that you don’t want to deal with then based on your boundary, you would remove your support with calm explanation that you can't talk when he is high.
There is a lot more to the techniques, but won't get into it here. That is why I posted the links to The SMART/CRAFT website. They also have a forum, online meetings and are starting to have live meetings in certain locations. It has all been very helpful to me, and eye-opening, and that is why I am sharing it with you.
Also, I think the key to understanding that while providing support to your husband may have a positive impact; it won't get him clean. He has to figure that out on his own. Something will however trigger him- it will either be something positive or something negative. But it comes from within him. It's up to him. If you think about it that way, then maybe it will give you the freedom to live as you choose, knowing your not responsible for his decisions, your just living your life in a manner that is best for you.
My husband was addicted to pain meds, and one thing I want to share is that in my husbands case, the use of drugs became part of his coping mechanism. He used it to avoid feeling, to make the bad go away. When he was using and not in treatment, he did not have the tools within himself to cope properly. So in your husbands case, I feel for him. He is dealing with his mothers serious illness, is unstable emotionally, has no tools to cope. I understand your saying he needs to man up, and I agree. My husband needed to man up also, but it helped take some of my anger away when I talked to his doctors and realized his brain chemistry was altered due to the drug use, and his emotional state was being affected by this also.
I am sending a big hug your way, and I hope that you find some sense of order amid the chaos. I know you will get there in time. Also hope your husband finds his way out. Mine finally did, and now he is almost 11 months clean.
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