Seeking Insights into Relationship Problems with Recovering Addict
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Seeking Insights into Relationship Problems with Recovering Addict
I became involved with a woman who is a recovering addict last year. The relationship lasted 8 months and was quite serious, but ended suddenly and without warning. I feel the demise of the relationship was tied to behaviors from her past addiction and ongoing treatment. But given my lack of experience in this world, I just don’t know how to process or understand it in that context. I found this forum with similar relationship posts and was hoping that some of you could give me some insight, since it’s not the type of answer you can google. I will try to keep it brief, although it’s a bit hard, since it requires sharing some details.
I am 38 and the woman was 28. She had used cocaine regularly between the ages of 16 and 23, when she finally got clean. She had made a lot of bad decisions in that time, and messed up her life quite a bit.
She told me on our second date that she was in NA because she really liked me and didn’t want it to be an issue. I kept an open mind about it. It was hard for me to judge someone who had cleaned up their life, or a program that helped people do that.
Our relationship went really well. She was very much in love with me up until the last month or so. Early on, she told me that she was open about her life in NA. So I asked questions trying to understand, but it clearly made her uncomfortable. I am very inquisitive and candid, but didn’t say anything negative, just asked lots of questions. I noticed she talked less and less about this part of her life after that, as the relationship progressed. This was odd, since she still attended meetings twice a week.
Along these same lines, our emotional and then physical intimacy seemed to plateau somewhere in the middle of the relationship. She had a very hard time opening up, communicating, or processing her feelings. And as time went on, and I tried to get her to talk about things, she became very defensive.
She had mentioned when we first started dating that she had problems in past relationships with people accepting her friends. She had a very tight knit group of people who she referred to as her family, all of whom she had met in NA. She seemed to be overcompensating for past boyfriends by not letting me get close with these people. She repeatedly told me it didn’t matter to her if I did. She didn’t even introduce me to any of them until probably the fifth or sixth month of dating, when I finally asked her to.
I met them a few times at outings. As we got towards the holiday seasons, she invited me to some events with them, but always told me it didn’t matter to her if I came. I took her at her word. Ironically, this seemed to be part of the reason for the blow up at the end.
Her relationship with these people seemed a bit unhealthy to me, just because there seemed to be so much codependence. She needed to be around them all the time, and it almost seemed to me as if she couldn’t make decisions on her own, without their input. She said things to this effect.
In the last month or so, as I had mentioned, things became tense because of the lack of communication. She talked about a life and family together, but would get super defensive when I talked about things like her lack of a job, or how we could practically plan a life together. She was going to school, but living as a nanny with one of these friends. She seemed to be more comfortable hiding away in this world, and living off of her student loans like a credit card, than making adult decisions that she needed to confront. It really sometimes felt like talking to a teenager instead of someone her age.
All of this culminated, I believe, because I didn’t attend an Xmas gathering. She said her friends asked where I was, and she said I was working on my truck. In reality I was packing it for our extended Xmas trip. She obviously felt shamed by these people, and the perception of the ordeal. This really seemed to be the tipping point, suddenly with her behavior. Then within a few days, the entire relationship had disintegrated.
She sent me an e-mail canceling the trip the day before vacation. I called her to tell her it was a terrible way to handle it, and that in person would have been more respectful. When I asked her if she was breaking up with me as I was confused, she impulsively said yes, although she admitted she had not planned on doing that.
We had a conversation the next day which is really the only time I ever got any insight into this matter. She accused me of not having a higher power, of judging her friends, of not wanting to invest into community, of being angry and negative, and of being so different than anyone she has ever dated. It all felt very judgmental, untrue, and incredibly unfair. I tried telling her that most of what she was saying was a misperception, and that I only needed to understand, to have her tell me, what she was thinking to fix things.
She said she needed time over Xmas to process things. I wrote her a very thoughtful letter and gave her a week. All I got in response when I came back from the trip was a very brief e-mail telling me that I was damaged and had a broken heart. When I called, she was extremely cold, and somewhat mean. She tried to blame sex as the reason for the break up. There had been less of it, and if it was a problem it was mostly because of her emotional distance and superficial intimacy. But she seemed to be saying it more to be mean than anything else. A total change of attitude.
This behavior, and her reasons, were all over the place. She caught me so offguard, I haven’t been able to make any sense of it. And then she cut off all contact, so I cannot get any closure. I have written her several heartfelt e-mails since then, with no response. I expressed a desire to at least be her friend. I have never had a relationship end like this, it all feels very unhealthy and illogical.
I should note, that she had several turbulent and dysfunctional relationships in her past. And most of the men she had dated, she tried to hide the details, but they sounded like shady characters. I am a successful professional, and I almost feel as if she dated me for the idea of who I am, and stability, more than anything else. I glimpsed a text she wrote once that said something to this effect, that I was no one she would have chosen for herself, but I was meant to be her family. My read is that she thought it was her higher power that brought me into her life.
I’m not looking for any affirmation of being right here. I made some mistakes in the relationship, I have a very stressful job, and last year was a bad one for me. I am sure she unfairly suffered because of all of this, and my behavior. But it wasn’t anything out of the ordinary. She couldn’t seem to handle the stress and adversity, and seems to have run away, as she has described doing a lot in her life.
My other impression is that, she mentioned feeling abnormally vulnerable with me early in the relationship, unlike she usually was. But in the latter part, I feel like I really opened up with her and exposed myself, and maybe somehow this flip flop of emotions somehow also spurred this change in her.
If any of this behavior is a pattern or common in recovering addicts, I would very much appreciate your insights. I’m not sure I’ve done a very good job communicating how unhealthy and unexpected these events played out, but maybe someone here knows what I’m talking about?
It’s been very hard for me to process her abrupt change, without warning, and how she totally denied me even a conversation to end things, and cut off all ties. I have never experienced this in any relationship before.
I am 38 and the woman was 28. She had used cocaine regularly between the ages of 16 and 23, when she finally got clean. She had made a lot of bad decisions in that time, and messed up her life quite a bit.
She told me on our second date that she was in NA because she really liked me and didn’t want it to be an issue. I kept an open mind about it. It was hard for me to judge someone who had cleaned up their life, or a program that helped people do that.
Our relationship went really well. She was very much in love with me up until the last month or so. Early on, she told me that she was open about her life in NA. So I asked questions trying to understand, but it clearly made her uncomfortable. I am very inquisitive and candid, but didn’t say anything negative, just asked lots of questions. I noticed she talked less and less about this part of her life after that, as the relationship progressed. This was odd, since she still attended meetings twice a week.
Along these same lines, our emotional and then physical intimacy seemed to plateau somewhere in the middle of the relationship. She had a very hard time opening up, communicating, or processing her feelings. And as time went on, and I tried to get her to talk about things, she became very defensive.
She had mentioned when we first started dating that she had problems in past relationships with people accepting her friends. She had a very tight knit group of people who she referred to as her family, all of whom she had met in NA. She seemed to be overcompensating for past boyfriends by not letting me get close with these people. She repeatedly told me it didn’t matter to her if I did. She didn’t even introduce me to any of them until probably the fifth or sixth month of dating, when I finally asked her to.
I met them a few times at outings. As we got towards the holiday seasons, she invited me to some events with them, but always told me it didn’t matter to her if I came. I took her at her word. Ironically, this seemed to be part of the reason for the blow up at the end.
Her relationship with these people seemed a bit unhealthy to me, just because there seemed to be so much codependence. She needed to be around them all the time, and it almost seemed to me as if she couldn’t make decisions on her own, without their input. She said things to this effect.
In the last month or so, as I had mentioned, things became tense because of the lack of communication. She talked about a life and family together, but would get super defensive when I talked about things like her lack of a job, or how we could practically plan a life together. She was going to school, but living as a nanny with one of these friends. She seemed to be more comfortable hiding away in this world, and living off of her student loans like a credit card, than making adult decisions that she needed to confront. It really sometimes felt like talking to a teenager instead of someone her age.
All of this culminated, I believe, because I didn’t attend an Xmas gathering. She said her friends asked where I was, and she said I was working on my truck. In reality I was packing it for our extended Xmas trip. She obviously felt shamed by these people, and the perception of the ordeal. This really seemed to be the tipping point, suddenly with her behavior. Then within a few days, the entire relationship had disintegrated.
She sent me an e-mail canceling the trip the day before vacation. I called her to tell her it was a terrible way to handle it, and that in person would have been more respectful. When I asked her if she was breaking up with me as I was confused, she impulsively said yes, although she admitted she had not planned on doing that.
We had a conversation the next day which is really the only time I ever got any insight into this matter. She accused me of not having a higher power, of judging her friends, of not wanting to invest into community, of being angry and negative, and of being so different than anyone she has ever dated. It all felt very judgmental, untrue, and incredibly unfair. I tried telling her that most of what she was saying was a misperception, and that I only needed to understand, to have her tell me, what she was thinking to fix things.
She said she needed time over Xmas to process things. I wrote her a very thoughtful letter and gave her a week. All I got in response when I came back from the trip was a very brief e-mail telling me that I was damaged and had a broken heart. When I called, she was extremely cold, and somewhat mean. She tried to blame sex as the reason for the break up. There had been less of it, and if it was a problem it was mostly because of her emotional distance and superficial intimacy. But she seemed to be saying it more to be mean than anything else. A total change of attitude.
This behavior, and her reasons, were all over the place. She caught me so offguard, I haven’t been able to make any sense of it. And then she cut off all contact, so I cannot get any closure. I have written her several heartfelt e-mails since then, with no response. I expressed a desire to at least be her friend. I have never had a relationship end like this, it all feels very unhealthy and illogical.
I should note, that she had several turbulent and dysfunctional relationships in her past. And most of the men she had dated, she tried to hide the details, but they sounded like shady characters. I am a successful professional, and I almost feel as if she dated me for the idea of who I am, and stability, more than anything else. I glimpsed a text she wrote once that said something to this effect, that I was no one she would have chosen for herself, but I was meant to be her family. My read is that she thought it was her higher power that brought me into her life.
I’m not looking for any affirmation of being right here. I made some mistakes in the relationship, I have a very stressful job, and last year was a bad one for me. I am sure she unfairly suffered because of all of this, and my behavior. But it wasn’t anything out of the ordinary. She couldn’t seem to handle the stress and adversity, and seems to have run away, as she has described doing a lot in her life.
My other impression is that, she mentioned feeling abnormally vulnerable with me early in the relationship, unlike she usually was. But in the latter part, I feel like I really opened up with her and exposed myself, and maybe somehow this flip flop of emotions somehow also spurred this change in her.
If any of this behavior is a pattern or common in recovering addicts, I would very much appreciate your insights. I’m not sure I’ve done a very good job communicating how unhealthy and unexpected these events played out, but maybe someone here knows what I’m talking about?
It’s been very hard for me to process her abrupt change, without warning, and how she totally denied me even a conversation to end things, and cut off all ties. I have never experienced this in any relationship before.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,927
Hi Steven,
My husband became addicted to pain meds after an injury and surgeries; he was a functional user meaning he kept his professional job, and maintained all his financial responsibilities… but he used for over a year and ended up pretty sick, did a detox, and a 3 month non-12 step rehab. Never used the NA program. He has been clean now for 10 months. ( Just wanted to give you some background on my experience before I commented.)
It sounds to me like your ex possibly had some emotional issues that may have run deeper than just her addiction. It sounds like these issues have not been dealt with, and it is preventing her from truly participating in & sustaining a healthy adult relationship. Personally, I believe that people need to seek professional counseling/therapy to work through deep issues of addiction & the underlying causes of addiction if they are to get the best chance of full recovery. But if they desire, on top of this… community groups like NA can be helpful if balanced within the context of their “real life”. The main reason my husband chose not to get involved with NA was the fact that he was not accepting of making it part of his “lifestyle” and many people choose to do that… for life.
There was a thread I was reading earlier today that might be of some assistance to you. It was on the newcomers forum and was a discussion about someone who is weighing the decision of how deeply he wants to get involved in NA based on the commitment that is being asked of him. He feels pressured by people in NA, and also his family…and the comments back to him are very interesting also. may help explain what happened with your ex: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ns-wanted.html
To me, it appears she engulfed herself in the NA program, made the people there her codependent “family”, and is now basically dependent upon them. Based on what you have said, she sounds too enmeshed after being clean for 5 years. To me, it also does not sound like she was truly in “recovery” maybe partially there, but never made it because she has been as you stated: hiding away… afraid to take the next steps into responsible adulthood. i.e. using student loans like credit cards, she is almost 30 years old and isn’t thinking about her future, employment where she can support herself, etc.
“Recovery” as defined by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) contains four components:
Health: overcoming or managing one’s disease(s) as well as living in a physically and emotionally healthy way
Home: a stable and safe place to live
Purpose: meaningful daily activities, such as a job, school, volunteerism, family caretaking, or creative endeavors, and the independence, income and resources to participate in society
Community: relationships and social networks that provide support, friendship, love, and hope.
It doesn’t sound like after 5 years she has managed to balance out her life exactly. I cant tell you why she felt the need to distance you from her NA program at times, and then pull you in at other times. It sounds almost like she was trying to protect the situation and she did not want you to interfere, but when it was convenient for her to have you there (like the xmas party) then she wanted it her way. Addiction by nature leads to lying and selfish behaviors. Addicts lie to protect their addictions, and learn to manipulate people to get what they want. These behaviors can stick around if a person isn’t truly in recovery. It doesn’t sound to me like she broke all these habits.
If she was in early recovery, like up to a year or even a little longer then it might be expected that there would be some variances in behavior due to learning new behaviors, changes in the body chemistry, etc. But she was 5 years out. I would consider yourself lucky to walk away from the relationship before you got in too deep. I think she has a ways to go before she is healthy and can be an equal contributing partner in any relationship. You deserve that.
It is unfortunate that you did not get closure from her; the way she handled the breakup shows her immaturity very vividly. You deserved better.
Maybe just write out all your feelings one last time and set them free by wind, water, or fire...Grant yourself the closure you need.
My husband became addicted to pain meds after an injury and surgeries; he was a functional user meaning he kept his professional job, and maintained all his financial responsibilities… but he used for over a year and ended up pretty sick, did a detox, and a 3 month non-12 step rehab. Never used the NA program. He has been clean now for 10 months. ( Just wanted to give you some background on my experience before I commented.)
It sounds to me like your ex possibly had some emotional issues that may have run deeper than just her addiction. It sounds like these issues have not been dealt with, and it is preventing her from truly participating in & sustaining a healthy adult relationship. Personally, I believe that people need to seek professional counseling/therapy to work through deep issues of addiction & the underlying causes of addiction if they are to get the best chance of full recovery. But if they desire, on top of this… community groups like NA can be helpful if balanced within the context of their “real life”. The main reason my husband chose not to get involved with NA was the fact that he was not accepting of making it part of his “lifestyle” and many people choose to do that… for life.
There was a thread I was reading earlier today that might be of some assistance to you. It was on the newcomers forum and was a discussion about someone who is weighing the decision of how deeply he wants to get involved in NA based on the commitment that is being asked of him. He feels pressured by people in NA, and also his family…and the comments back to him are very interesting also. may help explain what happened with your ex: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ns-wanted.html
To me, it appears she engulfed herself in the NA program, made the people there her codependent “family”, and is now basically dependent upon them. Based on what you have said, she sounds too enmeshed after being clean for 5 years. To me, it also does not sound like she was truly in “recovery” maybe partially there, but never made it because she has been as you stated: hiding away… afraid to take the next steps into responsible adulthood. i.e. using student loans like credit cards, she is almost 30 years old and isn’t thinking about her future, employment where she can support herself, etc.
“Recovery” as defined by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) contains four components:
Health: overcoming or managing one’s disease(s) as well as living in a physically and emotionally healthy way
Home: a stable and safe place to live
Purpose: meaningful daily activities, such as a job, school, volunteerism, family caretaking, or creative endeavors, and the independence, income and resources to participate in society
Community: relationships and social networks that provide support, friendship, love, and hope.
It doesn’t sound like after 5 years she has managed to balance out her life exactly. I cant tell you why she felt the need to distance you from her NA program at times, and then pull you in at other times. It sounds almost like she was trying to protect the situation and she did not want you to interfere, but when it was convenient for her to have you there (like the xmas party) then she wanted it her way. Addiction by nature leads to lying and selfish behaviors. Addicts lie to protect their addictions, and learn to manipulate people to get what they want. These behaviors can stick around if a person isn’t truly in recovery. It doesn’t sound to me like she broke all these habits.
If she was in early recovery, like up to a year or even a little longer then it might be expected that there would be some variances in behavior due to learning new behaviors, changes in the body chemistry, etc. But she was 5 years out. I would consider yourself lucky to walk away from the relationship before you got in too deep. I think she has a ways to go before she is healthy and can be an equal contributing partner in any relationship. You deserve that.
It is unfortunate that you did not get closure from her; the way she handled the breakup shows her immaturity very vividly. You deserved better.
Maybe just write out all your feelings one last time and set them free by wind, water, or fire...Grant yourself the closure you need.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Orillia, Ont., Canada
Posts: 165
Well, since you don't want any affirmations, say that you don't, I'll just note a few things in your post, and a few that you chose not to mention. You say that she has been clean for 5 years, which sounds like she is doing very well in recovery. You say that she in the early part of your relationship opened up to you fully about her past addiction, which is a point in her favour. What I don't get is that while saying that, early on at least, she loved you very much, but you make no mention of your feelings toward her; in fact you make no mention of anything that you did find attractive about her, which I find odd. Also, you say that your last year was very stressful, and that she suffered for that---has it occurred to you that 8 months is not all that long a time, and that given the demands of your job, her breaking up with you might not have had anything to do with her being an ex-addict? If your job made her suffer, perhaps that is more important than her being in long term recovery, or the friends she made in NA. I also think that a ten year age difference might not be so important at my age (55), but when I was 38 I do think I would have found a ten year gap to be quite importand. If you think not, ask yourself just how many 48 year old women you have had romantic relationships with. By the way, you do note that you are a professional, and state that she is without a job, while going on to say that she works as a nanny---NEWS FLASH---this just in, being a nanny is a job, whether it be beneath your standards of what constitutes real work or not. Sorry, I hate writing so critical a post, but I honestly feel that you might be portraying youself in a somewhat less than factual way in your post. Just my opinion, though, so don't let it trouble you. Take care, better luck with your next relationship---rick
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 26
Your story is very similar to mine, and i'm sure to many others as well. As a functioning adult, you will drive yourself crazy trying to rationalize this. Many say that addicts stop emotional maturing at the time they were doing heavy drugs. She was probably often high during a time in her life when she was supposed to be developing things like empathy, and they just never took. I drove myself crazy thinking "what did I do wrong?" "what if I did this, or that" There is no use thinking about it. You have to put it behind you and find someone that is your partner in life, and will share in the responsibilities of a healthy, adult relationship, financially, and emotionally. I don't really have a nicer way of saying this, but you are dealing with a crazy person, fairly simple, and trying to rationalize her behavior is a completely futile activity.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Jungle
Posts: 5,435
I'm sorry that you are hurting. Break ups hurt and it doesn't matter whether she is an addict in recovery or not.......it just hurts. You could make yourself crazy trying to analyze this situation.
It may have nothing or everything to do with her being in recovery from drug addiction. But if you understood all of it......what would you do with the information? Would it really make you feel better? Would you want to fix it?
Since she has made it very clear that she doesn't want to respond to your communications, the only healthy thing to do is to let it go and move forward in your life. I truly believe that when a relationship ends, it means simply that there is someone else who is meant to be in our lives. Acceptance, letting go, moving forward.......easy to say......hard to do.
gentle hugs
ke
It may have nothing or everything to do with her being in recovery from drug addiction. But if you understood all of it......what would you do with the information? Would it really make you feel better? Would you want to fix it?
Since she has made it very clear that she doesn't want to respond to your communications, the only healthy thing to do is to let it go and move forward in your life. I truly believe that when a relationship ends, it means simply that there is someone else who is meant to be in our lives. Acceptance, letting go, moving forward.......easy to say......hard to do.
gentle hugs
ke
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
While it can be easy to blame a program such as AA, NA or Alanon for problems in a relationship or someones recovery or lack of...which is mostly done by people who no absolutely nothing about the program yet insist they do. (I am not referring to you). IMO, the responsibility and accountability is solely on the individual. Sure, there may be dysfunctional relationships among a 12 step group, there are also active users there too and then there are some who truly work the program as it was meant to be worked.
You may never get the answers you are looking for from her, however your post shows you already know the answers from YOU. Personally, I think you dodged a real bullet and should be very thankful that she showed you who she was sooner then later.
You want closure? Close this chapter of your life and move forward. Find a healthy person to have a mature relationship with. She wasn't it. Healthy attracts healthy. Sick attracts sick. Maybe its time to look at why you became so invested with someone with her qualities or lack there of.
P.S. Welcome to SR. There is a lot of great information here. Cynical One has a great blog with lots of information, if you are interested. She posted an interesting pie chart about recovery and the stages of it through the years as well.
Also, it is not that uncommon for people to use the program and/or sponsor as their scapegoat or excuse to end a relationship or even go back to using. That's a flaw in the individual not the program.
You may never get the answers you are looking for from her, however your post shows you already know the answers from YOU. Personally, I think you dodged a real bullet and should be very thankful that she showed you who she was sooner then later.
You want closure? Close this chapter of your life and move forward. Find a healthy person to have a mature relationship with. She wasn't it. Healthy attracts healthy. Sick attracts sick. Maybe its time to look at why you became so invested with someone with her qualities or lack there of.
P.S. Welcome to SR. There is a lot of great information here. Cynical One has a great blog with lots of information, if you are interested. She posted an interesting pie chart about recovery and the stages of it through the years as well.
Also, it is not that uncommon for people to use the program and/or sponsor as their scapegoat or excuse to end a relationship or even go back to using. That's a flaw in the individual not the program.
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: PM me....
Posts: 468
Several thoughts ran thru my mind while reading your post.
My daughter is 33 and is currently in recovery from meth addiction.
Often, I see the 15-16 year old trying to find her way, even tho her chronological age is 33. Addicts are often stunted at the age they began using.
Additionally, my therapist told me that many young adults are not reaching maturity until around 27-28 years old.
That, mixed with prior drug addiction could mean that she is just not as mature as what would be needed to have a relationship with you at this time.
My daughter is 33 and is currently in recovery from meth addiction.
Often, I see the 15-16 year old trying to find her way, even tho her chronological age is 33. Addicts are often stunted at the age they began using.
Additionally, my therapist told me that many young adults are not reaching maturity until around 27-28 years old.
That, mixed with prior drug addiction could mean that she is just not as mature as what would be needed to have a relationship with you at this time.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5
Thank you all.. further thoughts
Thank you all for your comments. You have given me some insights that help me to grapple with this matter. I suspect that LoveMeKnow is right, that I know the answers already. But this experience has been so foreign to me, I needed some frame of reference from other people who have experienced something similar, because it does seem believable to me.
Rick, I do appreciate your honesty. But you should understand that the reason I wrote this post is because I’m having trouble dealing with the devastation I feel. I loved this woman. Completely. I feel as if I am mourning someone who died, upon losing her. I opened up to her more emotionally than I ever have with another person.
Be clear that I thought she was a very beautiful person with a lot of great qualities, albeit someone with some serious emotional issues. She was great with kids, and I thought she would make a great mother, and we talked about having a family. Now, I’m not so sure whether the beautify was there at all, her behavior seems to indicate not. If my love weren’t clouding my judgment, I doubt I would say these positive things. I certainly wouldn’t let someone I didn’t feel this way about treat me this way and think twice about who they were as a human being, which is to say not a very nice one.
I have tried to be really honest with myself and do some soul searching, to determine what role I played in this matter, which is another point in my post. I’m willing to accept my own failings.
I agree that being a nanny can be a job. But only if you get paid for it. She was trading it for free room and board. Before that she was actually working 30+ hours a week and paying rent to these “friends” or “family.” A pretty lopsided deal. It was my suggestion that changed this matter to the more reasonable arrangement. Ironically, it was these same suggestions that ultimately elicited defensiveness and were interpreted as accusations or insults as time went by.
I only mention myself being a professional, because it obviously gave her a complex and I was very different than anyone she had every dated. And also because she was completely unable to comprehend what this meant in terms of responsibilities and stress, no matter what I did to try to relate it to her.
I don’t think 10 years at my age is a very big gap. I’ve had similar relationships in that regard, but never with this type of emotional maturity.
RedBaron5 is probably right that as someone looking for healthy answers, this will probably drive me mad. And oddly enough, in one of my first letters after the breakup, I echoed YearForMe’s comments about her seeming to be emotionally frozen at some younger age.
Kindeyes, I appreciate what you say about all breakups being hard. It’s true, and I know it’s time to move on. But I’ve had a few breakups in my life, I have some experience, and never has anything tinged me with this kind of dysfunction and oddity. I remain friends with many of my ex girlfriends. There is an aspect of this tied to her life as an ex-addict, or recovery, or whatever it is you would call it, something that cannot be denied, and which I would just like to understand so I can move on.
Thank you all for our kindness in sharing your insights.
Rick, I do appreciate your honesty. But you should understand that the reason I wrote this post is because I’m having trouble dealing with the devastation I feel. I loved this woman. Completely. I feel as if I am mourning someone who died, upon losing her. I opened up to her more emotionally than I ever have with another person.
Be clear that I thought she was a very beautiful person with a lot of great qualities, albeit someone with some serious emotional issues. She was great with kids, and I thought she would make a great mother, and we talked about having a family. Now, I’m not so sure whether the beautify was there at all, her behavior seems to indicate not. If my love weren’t clouding my judgment, I doubt I would say these positive things. I certainly wouldn’t let someone I didn’t feel this way about treat me this way and think twice about who they were as a human being, which is to say not a very nice one.
I have tried to be really honest with myself and do some soul searching, to determine what role I played in this matter, which is another point in my post. I’m willing to accept my own failings.
I agree that being a nanny can be a job. But only if you get paid for it. She was trading it for free room and board. Before that she was actually working 30+ hours a week and paying rent to these “friends” or “family.” A pretty lopsided deal. It was my suggestion that changed this matter to the more reasonable arrangement. Ironically, it was these same suggestions that ultimately elicited defensiveness and were interpreted as accusations or insults as time went by.
I only mention myself being a professional, because it obviously gave her a complex and I was very different than anyone she had every dated. And also because she was completely unable to comprehend what this meant in terms of responsibilities and stress, no matter what I did to try to relate it to her.
I don’t think 10 years at my age is a very big gap. I’ve had similar relationships in that regard, but never with this type of emotional maturity.
RedBaron5 is probably right that as someone looking for healthy answers, this will probably drive me mad. And oddly enough, in one of my first letters after the breakup, I echoed YearForMe’s comments about her seeming to be emotionally frozen at some younger age.
Kindeyes, I appreciate what you say about all breakups being hard. It’s true, and I know it’s time to move on. But I’ve had a few breakups in my life, I have some experience, and never has anything tinged me with this kind of dysfunction and oddity. I remain friends with many of my ex girlfriends. There is an aspect of this tied to her life as an ex-addict, or recovery, or whatever it is you would call it, something that cannot be denied, and which I would just like to understand so I can move on.
Thank you all for our kindness in sharing your insights.
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: PM me....
Posts: 468
Steve,
If you keep reading here, you will see a common trait that addicts have....and that is that they can be exceptionally charming and their romantic partners often describe them as "the one".
Such a shame that all of that magic is often an illusion.
Another little tidbit from my therapist....
Beware of anyone that makes you feel a little too good about yourself.
If you keep reading here, you will see a common trait that addicts have....and that is that they can be exceptionally charming and their romantic partners often describe them as "the one".
Such a shame that all of that magic is often an illusion.
Another little tidbit from my therapist....
Beware of anyone that makes you feel a little too good about yourself.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5
Hi, allforcnm:
Your response has been particularly helpful to me. You seem to really see clearly to some of the root issues, based on my descriptions. You’ve opened my eyes and also confirmed some of my own suspicions.
I have always been wary of people who can’t ever stand to be alone, to me it seems unhealthy. What seemed to happen in this relationship, thinking about your codepence comment, is that she started spending all of her time with me, and I became another coodpendent. I was actually a little overwhelmed by it in the beginning and had to have some conversations about occasional time alone, which was interpreted negatively by her. But when you have a career, sometimes hard to not have to.
She had mentioned to me in that last blowup that gave me insight, that this situation between her friends and boyfriends has been a problem with at least two other relationships. I suggested inone of my last letters to her that this might be worth examining as a theme, because she seemed to be creating a divisive vibe with all these rules with them, then not sharing them, or contradicting them later. That was another thing she said at the end -- she said I’m sorry, but I lied, and it is important to me that you are close with all of my friends, whereas early on she went to extremes to tell me it didn’t matter to her, so much so it seemed odd to me. I understand the need to integrate with a partner’s friends and family, and I got along with hers when I met them, but she wanted something very specific and in my opinion, unrealistic. It takes time to develop relationships.
I don’t know enough to judge NA, but the way she used it, and her friends, it seems to be something that did get her clean, but it’s as if she replaced her addiction with a new crutch. Her friends also seem to be a source of isolation for her. Actually I overheard her say at one point that she didn’t want another “judas conspiracy situation” between her friends and partner. I think they were jealous of her time with me, somehow. I have little doubt that the xmas party and then the time I gae her to think over the holidays were taken upon as an opportunity to poison her against me somehow. The change that took place in these weeks was just too extreme.
I think the other consequence of her never being alone, and never having done anything in her life by herself, is that she has no sense of independence. This has also kept her emotionally thwarted. Easy to ignore processing things if you never have to deal with them, and drown yourself in other people’s opinions and hanging out, instead of facing the pain. And you are right that there were definitely some other emotional issues going on. Her parents divorced at when she was born, mother didn’t want the father in her life, and she didn’t know him well, but has tried her whole life to have an aloof relationship with him. I can understand her pain, having had some terrible family experiences, but to listen to her talk, sometimes I could see the scared little girl that couldn’t come to terms with it, instead of the adult who at least has worked through some of it. She was raised by her mother and a loving step father in a upper middle class family in California. These two things were what she often related as her story of tragedy, the root of pain that lead to her addiction. But there was always something about this that sat wrong with me. What component of addiction is a disease, and what part of it is bad decisions and weakness? She seems to always have a reason like this, even for things she does now. When I suggested that she be a little more proactive in getting her life together, she seemed to take the same route, and suggested I “wasn’t meeting her where she was at.”
The last thing I am curious to know, at the end I discovered that she was repeating her 4th step. I’ve tried to look this up, but the programs are foreign to me. I wondered if this moral inventory is something that might have tied into this behavior that ended our relationship. But I am also curious, if you’ve been in “recovery” for 5 years, and haven’t used, wouldn’t you have gone through all the steps? Why would you start over again like this?
Your response has been particularly helpful to me. You seem to really see clearly to some of the root issues, based on my descriptions. You’ve opened my eyes and also confirmed some of my own suspicions.
I have always been wary of people who can’t ever stand to be alone, to me it seems unhealthy. What seemed to happen in this relationship, thinking about your codepence comment, is that she started spending all of her time with me, and I became another coodpendent. I was actually a little overwhelmed by it in the beginning and had to have some conversations about occasional time alone, which was interpreted negatively by her. But when you have a career, sometimes hard to not have to.
She had mentioned to me in that last blowup that gave me insight, that this situation between her friends and boyfriends has been a problem with at least two other relationships. I suggested inone of my last letters to her that this might be worth examining as a theme, because she seemed to be creating a divisive vibe with all these rules with them, then not sharing them, or contradicting them later. That was another thing she said at the end -- she said I’m sorry, but I lied, and it is important to me that you are close with all of my friends, whereas early on she went to extremes to tell me it didn’t matter to her, so much so it seemed odd to me. I understand the need to integrate with a partner’s friends and family, and I got along with hers when I met them, but she wanted something very specific and in my opinion, unrealistic. It takes time to develop relationships.
I don’t know enough to judge NA, but the way she used it, and her friends, it seems to be something that did get her clean, but it’s as if she replaced her addiction with a new crutch. Her friends also seem to be a source of isolation for her. Actually I overheard her say at one point that she didn’t want another “judas conspiracy situation” between her friends and partner. I think they were jealous of her time with me, somehow. I have little doubt that the xmas party and then the time I gae her to think over the holidays were taken upon as an opportunity to poison her against me somehow. The change that took place in these weeks was just too extreme.
I think the other consequence of her never being alone, and never having done anything in her life by herself, is that she has no sense of independence. This has also kept her emotionally thwarted. Easy to ignore processing things if you never have to deal with them, and drown yourself in other people’s opinions and hanging out, instead of facing the pain. And you are right that there were definitely some other emotional issues going on. Her parents divorced at when she was born, mother didn’t want the father in her life, and she didn’t know him well, but has tried her whole life to have an aloof relationship with him. I can understand her pain, having had some terrible family experiences, but to listen to her talk, sometimes I could see the scared little girl that couldn’t come to terms with it, instead of the adult who at least has worked through some of it. She was raised by her mother and a loving step father in a upper middle class family in California. These two things were what she often related as her story of tragedy, the root of pain that lead to her addiction. But there was always something about this that sat wrong with me. What component of addiction is a disease, and what part of it is bad decisions and weakness? She seems to always have a reason like this, even for things she does now. When I suggested that she be a little more proactive in getting her life together, she seemed to take the same route, and suggested I “wasn’t meeting her where she was at.”
The last thing I am curious to know, at the end I discovered that she was repeating her 4th step. I’ve tried to look this up, but the programs are foreign to me. I wondered if this moral inventory is something that might have tied into this behavior that ended our relationship. But I am also curious, if you’ve been in “recovery” for 5 years, and haven’t used, wouldn’t you have gone through all the steps? Why would you start over again like this?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 951
My brother has been clean for more than a year and does an inventory every night. Not a step 4 per se, but an inventory of how he managed the day. As I understand it, Step 4 isn't just for people actively using, but for anyone that wants to really examine their actions and address anything that has not been up to par. I think it's a positive thing to do regularly. We all could use a cleansing now and then, now?
Step 4 | the 12 steps
I also think anyone can and should go back over each of the steps as needed.
It's like "getting in shape". You can't go to the gym and eat right until you are perfectly in shape then just stop and expect to stay that way.
Here is the 10th step daily inventory format that my brother shared with me.
http://www.jeremybroomfield.com/sober/step10daily.pdf
Step 4 | the 12 steps
I also think anyone can and should go back over each of the steps as needed.
It's like "getting in shape". You can't go to the gym and eat right until you are perfectly in shape then just stop and expect to stay that way.
Here is the 10th step daily inventory format that my brother shared with me.
http://www.jeremybroomfield.com/sober/step10daily.pdf
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,927
Originally Posted by steven131313 
Hi, allforcnm:
Your response has been particularly helpful to me. You seem to really see clearly to some of the root issues, based on my descriptions. You’ve opened my eyes and also confirmed some of my own suspicions.
I have always been wary of people who can’t ever stand to be alone, to me it seems unhealthy. What seemed to happen in this relationship, thinking about your codepence comment, is that she started spending all of her time with me, and I became another coodpendent. I was actually a little overwhelmed by it in the beginning and had to have some conversations about occasional time alone, which was interpreted negatively by her. But when you have a career, sometimes hard to not have to.
She had mentioned to me in that last blowup that gave me insight, that this situation between her friends and boyfriends has been a problem with at least two other relationships. I suggested inone of my last letters to her that this might be worth examining as a theme, because she seemed to be creating a divisive vibe with all these rules with them, then not sharing them, or contradicting them later. That was another thing she said at the end -- she said I’m sorry, but I lied, and it is important to me that you are close with all of my friends, whereas early on she went to extremes to tell me it didn’t matter to her, so much so it seemed odd to me. I understand the need to integrate with a partner’s friends and family, and I got along with hers when I met them, but she wanted something very specific and in my opinion, unrealistic. It takes time to develop relationships.
I don’t know enough to judge NA, but the way she used it, and her friends, it seems to be something that did get her clean, but it’s as if she replaced her addiction with a new crutch. Her friends also seem to be a source of isolation for her. Actually I overheard her say at one point that she didn’t want another “judas conspiracy situation” between her friends and partner. I think they were jealous of her time with me, somehow. I have little doubt that the xmas party and then the time I gae her to think over the holidays were taken upon as an opportunity to poison her against me somehow. The change that took place in these weeks was just too extreme.
I think the other consequence of her never being alone, and never having done anything in her life by herself, is that she has no sense of independence. This has also kept her emotionally thwarted. Easy to ignore processing things if you never have to deal with them, and drown yourself in other people’s opinions and hanging out, instead of facing the pain. And you are right that there were definitely some other emotional issues going on. Her parents divorced at when she was born, mother didn’t want the father in her life, and she didn’t know him well, but has tried her whole life to have an aloof relationship with him. I can understand her pain, having had some terrible family experiences, but to listen to her talk, sometimes I could see the scared little girl that couldn’t come to terms with it, instead of the adult who at least has worked through some of it. She was raised by her mother and a loving step father in a upper middle class family in California. These two things were what she often related as her story of tragedy, the root of pain that lead to her addiction. But there was always something about this that sat wrong with me. What component of addiction is a disease, and what part of it is bad decisions and weakness? She seems to always have a reason like this, even for things she does now. When I suggested that she be a little more proactive in getting her life together, she seemed to take the same route, and suggested I “wasn’t meeting her where she was at.”
The last thing I am curious to know, at the end I discovered that she was repeating her 4th step. I’ve tried to look this up, but the programs are foreign to me. I wondered if this moral inventory is something that might have tied into this behavior that ended our relationship. But I am also curious, if you’ve been in “recovery” for 5 years, and haven’t used, wouldn’t you have gone through all the steps? Why would you start over again like this?
Your response has been particularly helpful to me. You seem to really see clearly to some of the root issues, based on my descriptions. You’ve opened my eyes and also confirmed some of my own suspicions.
I have always been wary of people who can’t ever stand to be alone, to me it seems unhealthy. What seemed to happen in this relationship, thinking about your codepence comment, is that she started spending all of her time with me, and I became another coodpendent. I was actually a little overwhelmed by it in the beginning and had to have some conversations about occasional time alone, which was interpreted negatively by her. But when you have a career, sometimes hard to not have to.
She had mentioned to me in that last blowup that gave me insight, that this situation between her friends and boyfriends has been a problem with at least two other relationships. I suggested inone of my last letters to her that this might be worth examining as a theme, because she seemed to be creating a divisive vibe with all these rules with them, then not sharing them, or contradicting them later. That was another thing she said at the end -- she said I’m sorry, but I lied, and it is important to me that you are close with all of my friends, whereas early on she went to extremes to tell me it didn’t matter to her, so much so it seemed odd to me. I understand the need to integrate with a partner’s friends and family, and I got along with hers when I met them, but she wanted something very specific and in my opinion, unrealistic. It takes time to develop relationships.
I don’t know enough to judge NA, but the way she used it, and her friends, it seems to be something that did get her clean, but it’s as if she replaced her addiction with a new crutch. Her friends also seem to be a source of isolation for her. Actually I overheard her say at one point that she didn’t want another “judas conspiracy situation” between her friends and partner. I think they were jealous of her time with me, somehow. I have little doubt that the xmas party and then the time I gae her to think over the holidays were taken upon as an opportunity to poison her against me somehow. The change that took place in these weeks was just too extreme.
I think the other consequence of her never being alone, and never having done anything in her life by herself, is that she has no sense of independence. This has also kept her emotionally thwarted. Easy to ignore processing things if you never have to deal with them, and drown yourself in other people’s opinions and hanging out, instead of facing the pain. And you are right that there were definitely some other emotional issues going on. Her parents divorced at when she was born, mother didn’t want the father in her life, and she didn’t know him well, but has tried her whole life to have an aloof relationship with him. I can understand her pain, having had some terrible family experiences, but to listen to her talk, sometimes I could see the scared little girl that couldn’t come to terms with it, instead of the adult who at least has worked through some of it. She was raised by her mother and a loving step father in a upper middle class family in California. These two things were what she often related as her story of tragedy, the root of pain that lead to her addiction. But there was always something about this that sat wrong with me. What component of addiction is a disease, and what part of it is bad decisions and weakness? She seems to always have a reason like this, even for things she does now. When I suggested that she be a little more proactive in getting her life together, she seemed to take the same route, and suggested I “wasn’t meeting her where she was at.”
The last thing I am curious to know, at the end I discovered that she was repeating her 4th step. I’ve tried to look this up, but the programs are foreign to me. I wondered if this moral inventory is something that might have tied into this behavior that ended our relationship. But I am also curious, if you’ve been in “recovery” for 5 years, and haven’t used, wouldn’t you have gone through all the steps? Why would you start over again like this?
Glad I could help a little. Sounds to me like you have her figured out pretty well… usually there is more beneath a person’s addiction issues. Also, from what your saying, sounds like she does have a pattern in her relationships, and how they end .. “the judas conspiracy situation” comment is a little disturbing isn’t it? Probably she is destined to repeat that pattern until she sorts herself out. Rather sad.
I also wont pretend to be an expert in NA, but I do know that it tends to be something that people bring into their lives often for life; and working the steps is something that is done repetitively. I think most people do their own version of a moral inventory; sometimes at the New Year, or their Birthday, or that old standby “never go to bed angry”… Whatever reasons she had in her head… you will most likely never know… it really doesn’t sound like she was being honest even with her friends, because she lied to them about xmas; told them you were fixing your truck when in fact you were getting things ready for the trip you were taking together.
To me, all the lies, the codependence, the hiding… represent someone that doesn’t know herself very well, is afraid to find her own voice, and be responsible for her decisions.
Very sorry for all the pain you have suffered
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 50
Steven, I am so sorry you are having to go through this. I know it is incredibly painful. I don't have any really great words of inspiration for you, but I just wanted to offer my encouragement and say that it sounds, to me, like she just isn't in a place where she is ready to have a healthy adult relationship. You probably didn't do anything to cause this - she may see it differently, but the point is that her expectations and her perception just didn't align with yours.
I began replying to clarify the 4th step part to you. I have been in recovery for 16 months, so not too long, but I have done the 4th step twice. For me, it is a somewhat intense process. The way I was taught to do it is to break it down into four sections, (resentments, fears, sexual inventory, and harms done) and then each section is broken into columns. The first column looks outward and lists the people, events, or institutions involved; as they progress, they take the focus inward, to examine my part in everything. It is kind of like a spreadsheet for processing our reactions to the world around us, which we use to discover our patterns of behavior and dysfunction.
She may have done a fourth step and seen a pattern in her behavior with respect to relationships, which she needed to change. Or maybe not. Either way, there is no way of knowing - she obviously is not ready to explain. Maybe she really doesn't know why she has behaved this way. It can take time to really get to the root of our motivations and why we act in certain ways. If she is continuing with the steps, maybe she will approach you later on at the 9th step and offer you some explanation. I wouldn't hold your breath on that one, though. Just try to accept that she is a sick person, find compassion without attachment, and try to move on with your life. You sound like a great guy and I'm sure you will find a wonderful woman to share your life with.
Wishing you the best.
I began replying to clarify the 4th step part to you. I have been in recovery for 16 months, so not too long, but I have done the 4th step twice. For me, it is a somewhat intense process. The way I was taught to do it is to break it down into four sections, (resentments, fears, sexual inventory, and harms done) and then each section is broken into columns. The first column looks outward and lists the people, events, or institutions involved; as they progress, they take the focus inward, to examine my part in everything. It is kind of like a spreadsheet for processing our reactions to the world around us, which we use to discover our patterns of behavior and dysfunction.
She may have done a fourth step and seen a pattern in her behavior with respect to relationships, which she needed to change. Or maybe not. Either way, there is no way of knowing - she obviously is not ready to explain. Maybe she really doesn't know why she has behaved this way. It can take time to really get to the root of our motivations and why we act in certain ways. If she is continuing with the steps, maybe she will approach you later on at the 9th step and offer you some explanation. I wouldn't hold your breath on that one, though. Just try to accept that she is a sick person, find compassion without attachment, and try to move on with your life. You sound like a great guy and I'm sure you will find a wonderful woman to share your life with.
Wishing you the best.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 14
I could relate to this on many levels, in fact, I could have posted 90% of it myself. We're still trying to find a way to make our relationship work and while she has always been open with her past, her addictions, past relationships and the reasons why her life has not followed what most people would see as a normal progression, it's taken a very long time for her to admit that she simply doesn't know how to do "this". She spent so many years trying to live a double life, keeping people at arms length and losing friends / family over her addictions, that when faced with a situation where she feels emotionally vulnerable, the defense mechanisim kicks in and she shuts down or makes excuses for why she can't make a decision or commitment. She's not used to being with someone who doesn't walk away as soon as they get frustrated and she was waiting for the day that I would. At one point she even tried to scare me off so our break up would be on her terms.
Learning to communicate with her has been complicated. Sometimes I give her space to figure it out, sometimes I push the conversation and sometimes I make it very clear that she's the one who needs to let me in or we simply have no future.
As you said a few times, I think about us having a life together but I need to be realistic too. If my idea of a healthy relationship requires her to change who she is, then it's simply not a healthy relationship. She will always deal with things in a way I can't relate to, so I've made myself very clear to her. We are very different people and always will be. I can accept her for who she is even if I don't understand how she sees the world, but I have my limits. I won't feel disrespected or allow myself to be taken advantage of and I won't accept excuses. It took a while, but she now encourages me to challenge her, to stop her mid sentence if she says something that simply doesn't make sense or contradicts previous statements. We both want this to work, but she now knows that she can't have it both ways. She can't move on from her past and find some kind of "normal" life if she's going to constantly make excuses.
In my opinion, the hardest part is seeing that kind, loving, caring person 95% of the time. Knowing that that person makes me happy and wants to be with me for all the right reasons but also knowing that sometimes she will get scared and do or say things to protect herself in ways that a partner shouldn't have to especially when I've never given her a reason to.
Learning to communicate with her has been complicated. Sometimes I give her space to figure it out, sometimes I push the conversation and sometimes I make it very clear that she's the one who needs to let me in or we simply have no future.
As you said a few times, I think about us having a life together but I need to be realistic too. If my idea of a healthy relationship requires her to change who she is, then it's simply not a healthy relationship. She will always deal with things in a way I can't relate to, so I've made myself very clear to her. We are very different people and always will be. I can accept her for who she is even if I don't understand how she sees the world, but I have my limits. I won't feel disrespected or allow myself to be taken advantage of and I won't accept excuses. It took a while, but she now encourages me to challenge her, to stop her mid sentence if she says something that simply doesn't make sense or contradicts previous statements. We both want this to work, but she now knows that she can't have it both ways. She can't move on from her past and find some kind of "normal" life if she's going to constantly make excuses.
In my opinion, the hardest part is seeing that kind, loving, caring person 95% of the time. Knowing that that person makes me happy and wants to be with me for all the right reasons but also knowing that sometimes she will get scared and do or say things to protect herself in ways that a partner shouldn't have to especially when I've never given her a reason to.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 59
Hi Steve,
Thank you for sharing your story here. Your former girlfriend obviously has a lot more work to do on her codependent issues, and I hope she will be able to get it under control. I hope you realize that you cannot rescue her or fix her any more than any of us can rescue or fix the addicts in our lives. Going by your description of her behavior, I don't think she is able yet to love anyone or knows yet the difference between loving another person and needing another person. She can't trust anyone because she can't trust herself.
My parents became my brother's codependents; even before he started drinking and using drugs he stole things from me and they covered for him. Life with active codependents feels "like a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing," because codependent behavior is irrational.
It wasn't about you; it was about her.
Thank you for sharing your story here. Your former girlfriend obviously has a lot more work to do on her codependent issues, and I hope she will be able to get it under control. I hope you realize that you cannot rescue her or fix her any more than any of us can rescue or fix the addicts in our lives. Going by your description of her behavior, I don't think she is able yet to love anyone or knows yet the difference between loving another person and needing another person. She can't trust anyone because she can't trust herself.
My parents became my brother's codependents; even before he started drinking and using drugs he stole things from me and they covered for him. Life with active codependents feels "like a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing," because codependent behavior is irrational.
It wasn't about you; it was about her.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
I used to be the great analyst. I picked apart, looked at, magnified, rearranged, and assumed a lot of things from my analysis. The truth was, while I was busy with all the analyzing, I was essentially "stuck." I wasn't moving forward in my life, and I was cut off from the neck down. I avoided feelings by staying in my head, and not in my heart.
I have no doubt that I drove my sponsor nuts many a time, but he would remind me that the "why" wasn't important; the "what do I do now" was the task at hand.
I had a very painful situation many years ago when I was engaged for 15 months. What I didn't realize was the fiance had a whole lot of baggage he brought to the relationship, and so did I.
He walked out one day and never came back.
There was no closure.
What I had to do was walk through the pain to get past it. Then I made a commitment to take a serious look at past relationships, and work on myself.
It took a long time to heal from that debacle, but I did, and in the process I discovered more of who I am, what I no longer wanted to be, and kept putting one foot in front of the other.
I believe that nothing happens in God's world by mistake. It's an opportunity to reconnect with my higher power and make changes.
I am sorry for your loss and your pain.I truly am.
Sending you hugs of support.
I have no doubt that I drove my sponsor nuts many a time, but he would remind me that the "why" wasn't important; the "what do I do now" was the task at hand.
I had a very painful situation many years ago when I was engaged for 15 months. What I didn't realize was the fiance had a whole lot of baggage he brought to the relationship, and so did I.
He walked out one day and never came back.
There was no closure.
What I had to do was walk through the pain to get past it. Then I made a commitment to take a serious look at past relationships, and work on myself.
It took a long time to heal from that debacle, but I did, and in the process I discovered more of who I am, what I no longer wanted to be, and kept putting one foot in front of the other.
I believe that nothing happens in God's world by mistake. It's an opportunity to reconnect with my higher power and make changes.
I am sorry for your loss and your pain.I truly am.
Sending you hugs of support.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 951
Ok, so let me be honest, the first time I read this post I got a little defensive. But kudos to me for not posting then, right? Here are my reasons: First, because I'm 40 and single and it's sometimes irritating when guys date younger women. Also because it seems like alot of the good men are taken and dating people that might not be quite right for them.
Second because it initially read to me like you two had relationship problems and you were possibly unfairly blaming her past addiction and involvement with the recovery community. My brother is in recovery and I know how important the continued involvement is for him staying healthy. I pray that he finds someone in the community so that he has the support he needs from them for his recovery, or else someone that can at least really understand what he has been through. It put me off that you were asking some of the questions you did.
So yes, I thought at the time it was probably much more about you and normal relationship difficulties than about her recovery or NA involvement. I refrained from posting anything (except the one informational post) because I knew I couldn't be very objective.
When I read your second post I felt a little differently as it's clear that you really loved her. I read this again last night when it popped up and now have a completely different perspective on all of it. I also realized 10 years isn't all that much and have a different perspective today because...well I just met someone cool and am not feeling so old and bitter.
So here's what I think -
It sounds to me like she is not that comfortable yet navigating the romantic relationship arena. Your questions made her uncomfortable and though I have no idea what you asked I think if she were more comfortable with herself, she would have handled it differently. She likely feels different or not exactly normal because of her experiences. It's scary to date someone that doesn't have the same experiences, I am sure. Your questions may have just underscored that for her, and made her even more fearful. You weren't wrong to ask though, and if she is going to have a relationship with someone from outside the world of recovery she will need to face those fears and learn to openly communicate. Or at least say "Your questions are making me uncomfortable. Please do some reading about addiction and learn about it from other sources."
I also think she likely engaged in some not so honest behavior when she said that your attendance was not necessary. Perhaps she wanted you to come, but was afraid you didn't want to and has some insecurities around that. When I was a kid my father did almost nothing with me. If I asked him to do something he pretty much always said no. Even today I can be insecure about issuing invitations because I become afraid of rejection. So I set it up to make the rejection okay. Have you read much about the evil ego and the ways it tries to protect us?
I have a circle filled with friends that are very important to me. Dating is daunting because of that. These friends love me and will always be there, even when relationships end. When I start dating someone I constantly gauge whether they will be able to get along with my friends or not. If I ever felt I had to choose, it would probably be disaster for the relationship.
It is also possible that she was not ready to face the reality of her living and working situation. If that is true, your questions would be stressful because it would force her to think about where she needs to be heading when she isn't quite ready to head there.
I doubt you are completely blameless because no one ever is in relationships. But, I don't see any evidence that either of you did anything horribly wrong. Her ditching out on your trip at the last minute wasn't cool, though. It sounds like her behavior was probably born out of some fear and some bad communication between the two of you. I do believe that the emotional development of an addict is stopped at the moment they begin using then has to pick up again when they find recovery. She may be 28, but she lost 7 years there, right?
Do you think you will ever have a chance to talk to her again?
Peace,
Hanna
Second because it initially read to me like you two had relationship problems and you were possibly unfairly blaming her past addiction and involvement with the recovery community. My brother is in recovery and I know how important the continued involvement is for him staying healthy. I pray that he finds someone in the community so that he has the support he needs from them for his recovery, or else someone that can at least really understand what he has been through. It put me off that you were asking some of the questions you did.
So yes, I thought at the time it was probably much more about you and normal relationship difficulties than about her recovery or NA involvement. I refrained from posting anything (except the one informational post) because I knew I couldn't be very objective.
When I read your second post I felt a little differently as it's clear that you really loved her. I read this again last night when it popped up and now have a completely different perspective on all of it. I also realized 10 years isn't all that much and have a different perspective today because...well I just met someone cool and am not feeling so old and bitter.
So here's what I think -
It sounds to me like she is not that comfortable yet navigating the romantic relationship arena. Your questions made her uncomfortable and though I have no idea what you asked I think if she were more comfortable with herself, she would have handled it differently. She likely feels different or not exactly normal because of her experiences. It's scary to date someone that doesn't have the same experiences, I am sure. Your questions may have just underscored that for her, and made her even more fearful. You weren't wrong to ask though, and if she is going to have a relationship with someone from outside the world of recovery she will need to face those fears and learn to openly communicate. Or at least say "Your questions are making me uncomfortable. Please do some reading about addiction and learn about it from other sources."
I also think she likely engaged in some not so honest behavior when she said that your attendance was not necessary. Perhaps she wanted you to come, but was afraid you didn't want to and has some insecurities around that. When I was a kid my father did almost nothing with me. If I asked him to do something he pretty much always said no. Even today I can be insecure about issuing invitations because I become afraid of rejection. So I set it up to make the rejection okay. Have you read much about the evil ego and the ways it tries to protect us?
I have a circle filled with friends that are very important to me. Dating is daunting because of that. These friends love me and will always be there, even when relationships end. When I start dating someone I constantly gauge whether they will be able to get along with my friends or not. If I ever felt I had to choose, it would probably be disaster for the relationship.
It is also possible that she was not ready to face the reality of her living and working situation. If that is true, your questions would be stressful because it would force her to think about where she needs to be heading when she isn't quite ready to head there.
I doubt you are completely blameless because no one ever is in relationships. But, I don't see any evidence that either of you did anything horribly wrong. Her ditching out on your trip at the last minute wasn't cool, though. It sounds like her behavior was probably born out of some fear and some bad communication between the two of you. I do believe that the emotional development of an addict is stopped at the moment they begin using then has to pick up again when they find recovery. She may be 28, but she lost 7 years there, right?
Do you think you will ever have a chance to talk to her again?
Peace,
Hanna
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