what if this happened to you?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5
what if this happened to you?
In a nutshell I'd like to know if any of would have been hurt or offended if this had happened to you. Maybe I am making too much of this . I just need a sounding board. Please bear with me.
I have and adult AS. He has been clean for over three years and has been gainfully employed. About 5 months ago his job was not doing well (he sells a certain product and sales determine a percentage of your check). with the economy people were not buying as much so his paycheck became less while he still had the same amount of bills coming in. This company has a branch
nearby by (60 miles) and we had an unoccupied rental home there. we told son he could transfer there (to that area) and if he could use the house a few months to get on his feet and then begin to pay rent. the territory there is much larger and the company thought it would be a good move. we also explained that this was to help him get started but free rent would not be permanent.
Fast forward he is still getting on his feet but it is looking more promising.
I found out by accident that in December he rec. some proceeds from land that was sold in an estate he had a very small interest in. he did not offer that info. nor did he offer to make any contribution on the rent whatsoever.
I think I wanted (or hoped) he would have offered to say something like "Mom, things are turning around. I got some unexpected money and I'd like to offer you X amount toward rent." I know I was setting myself up with an expectation. I understand that. But don't you think I should have been offered that consideration?
He also said recently (he offered this info.) that the nearest AA meeting was 20 miles away and so he just visits with his friends that are in the program via telephone. he does not attend structured meetings.
He told me this was working for him. I did not reply but I guess there are different roads to recovery .
I have since told him how I found out about the money and that the information regarding the money was not solicited by me. I did tell him I expected a rent payment this month and that if that wasn't possible he needed to make other arrangements. He says he is going to send a check. In the past that doesn't happen so we'll see. He is 38 and I think what
I said was appropriate. My husband does not. He said that AS had no obligation to tell us about the money. I feel since he was staying there for free he should have offered some type of payment however small in good faith.
In retrospect I should have probably never offered to help him but I thought I was doing a good thing. Now I am not so sure if some of this isn't my fault. If it is I will accept the responsibility. I feel like now I will be put in the position to keep reminding and asking for the rent. The worst case scenario is I will have to evict him and that won't be good either.
I would like thoughts on if you feel it would have been appropriate for him to share that he was now able to pay some rent rather than him hold back that info. I think I feel very hurt by this when all is said and done.
If any of you have any thoughts I'd appreciate them.
Thank you very much.
third party
I have and adult AS. He has been clean for over three years and has been gainfully employed. About 5 months ago his job was not doing well (he sells a certain product and sales determine a percentage of your check). with the economy people were not buying as much so his paycheck became less while he still had the same amount of bills coming in. This company has a branch
nearby by (60 miles) and we had an unoccupied rental home there. we told son he could transfer there (to that area) and if he could use the house a few months to get on his feet and then begin to pay rent. the territory there is much larger and the company thought it would be a good move. we also explained that this was to help him get started but free rent would not be permanent.
Fast forward he is still getting on his feet but it is looking more promising.
I found out by accident that in December he rec. some proceeds from land that was sold in an estate he had a very small interest in. he did not offer that info. nor did he offer to make any contribution on the rent whatsoever.
I think I wanted (or hoped) he would have offered to say something like "Mom, things are turning around. I got some unexpected money and I'd like to offer you X amount toward rent." I know I was setting myself up with an expectation. I understand that. But don't you think I should have been offered that consideration?
He also said recently (he offered this info.) that the nearest AA meeting was 20 miles away and so he just visits with his friends that are in the program via telephone. he does not attend structured meetings.
He told me this was working for him. I did not reply but I guess there are different roads to recovery .
I have since told him how I found out about the money and that the information regarding the money was not solicited by me. I did tell him I expected a rent payment this month and that if that wasn't possible he needed to make other arrangements. He says he is going to send a check. In the past that doesn't happen so we'll see. He is 38 and I think what
I said was appropriate. My husband does not. He said that AS had no obligation to tell us about the money. I feel since he was staying there for free he should have offered some type of payment however small in good faith.
In retrospect I should have probably never offered to help him but I thought I was doing a good thing. Now I am not so sure if some of this isn't my fault. If it is I will accept the responsibility. I feel like now I will be put in the position to keep reminding and asking for the rent. The worst case scenario is I will have to evict him and that won't be good either.
I would like thoughts on if you feel it would have been appropriate for him to share that he was now able to pay some rent rather than him hold back that info. I think I feel very hurt by this when all is said and done.
If any of you have any thoughts I'd appreciate them.
Thank you very much.
third party
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 95
If I get your story straight, you have a son who works on a commission-based job. You got him sober and on his feet. You've supported him financially. Now that he's come into money (not clear how this can happen without some connection to your family), he's turned away from you and your husband supports his prodigality? That is insane. He should be a man and own his life. Repay you. Cut off the financial support. He needs to learn to be self-sufficient. I'm equally concerned about your husband. You need people who love and support you by your side. He sounds like a traitor.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5
my son went through three rehab stints and we paid for three. he did not pay
some court appointed bills(fees) related to an auto accident he was in and he was ordered to jail for 30 days which I did not come to his rescue. upon release he entered a halfway house and worked his program. he has been sober and holding the same job for three years.
Other than giving free rent for those months we have not paid any bills.
however in the beginning of my post I just felt the news of finally catching a break could have been shared and he could have offered some token rent .
He basically kept the information to himself and that's what I resent.
BTY the money came from some land being sold that was tied up in an estate
that we ,as parents, we not connected with so basically he did not think we would be privy to the info. so he just didn't "share" the info.
I guess I feel used. seems like when things are heading south I hear about it. when something beneficial does come his way "mum" is the word.
thanks for the replies.
some court appointed bills(fees) related to an auto accident he was in and he was ordered to jail for 30 days which I did not come to his rescue. upon release he entered a halfway house and worked his program. he has been sober and holding the same job for three years.
Other than giving free rent for those months we have not paid any bills.
however in the beginning of my post I just felt the news of finally catching a break could have been shared and he could have offered some token rent .
He basically kept the information to himself and that's what I resent.
BTY the money came from some land being sold that was tied up in an estate
that we ,as parents, we not connected with so basically he did not think we would be privy to the info. so he just didn't "share" the info.
I guess I feel used. seems like when things are heading south I hear about it. when something beneficial does come his way "mum" is the word.
thanks for the replies.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 95
Perhaps I overreacted. I don't know the specifics. My prayers are with you thirdparty. All I can offer is my moral support. Sorry LoveMeNow if I was rash. Just trying to be supportive and protective. I guess I don't always do it the right or accepted way.
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
Well........................... this is like closing the barn door after the cows have fled.
You never gave a date for starting to pay rent. Now that you have verbally said it, "As A Landlord" you need to put it in writing, and it will have to be a 30 day notice for him to move if rent is not paid, and in most states the laws for landlord and tenants is the 30 day notice by either party has to be from beginning of one month to the next.
So yep, you have put yourself into a no-win situation. Your expectations were for what a person with normal brain waves and thinking capabilities would do, not what an addict in recovery might or might not do. As his sales 'have been down' and thus his salary has been less, you have no idea what any money he received went for, and it is none of your business, he is an adult. But for all you know, since he has been in this situation for a while I would suspect that a good portion of it went for what to him were 'more pressing' bills.
My first 5+ years into recovery, even though I was making some pretty decent money, I lived like a pauper, did not go out for more than just coffee after a meeting, did not even spend a lot of money on clothes bought at thrift stores, etc as I paid down the masses and masses of debt that I had accumulated and paid off every last one of my credit cards and it was a lot!!!
So, as nice as it was for you to offer him some rent free months in your rental, maybe next time, if there is one, you will think twice about it. Now about the only thing you can do is tell him in writing when rent is due monthly and if that is not feasible then you will expect him to vacate the premises by such and such date.
As to whether he is making meetings or not ......................... again His Recovery, His Program, and really none of your business Mom. His overall ACTIONS will tell you if he is still in recovery or not, and even if not, not much you can do except not enable and get him out of your rental unit ASAP.
As to your husband, well he has as much right to his opinion as you do to yours and there are times when hubby and wife do not agree. This seems to be one of those times. Is he right? I don't know. Is he wrong? I don't know. What I do understand is he was saying he would not have done what you did regarding the extra dollars your son came into.
The answers are within you. You will find them when you look into your 'motives', all of your motives, for offering him the 'rent free' place to begin with, and your motives for confronting him about the unexpected monies he received. By checking those, writing about those and looking at those motives honestly you will find your answers.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
You never gave a date for starting to pay rent. Now that you have verbally said it, "As A Landlord" you need to put it in writing, and it will have to be a 30 day notice for him to move if rent is not paid, and in most states the laws for landlord and tenants is the 30 day notice by either party has to be from beginning of one month to the next.
So yep, you have put yourself into a no-win situation. Your expectations were for what a person with normal brain waves and thinking capabilities would do, not what an addict in recovery might or might not do. As his sales 'have been down' and thus his salary has been less, you have no idea what any money he received went for, and it is none of your business, he is an adult. But for all you know, since he has been in this situation for a while I would suspect that a good portion of it went for what to him were 'more pressing' bills.
My first 5+ years into recovery, even though I was making some pretty decent money, I lived like a pauper, did not go out for more than just coffee after a meeting, did not even spend a lot of money on clothes bought at thrift stores, etc as I paid down the masses and masses of debt that I had accumulated and paid off every last one of my credit cards and it was a lot!!!
So, as nice as it was for you to offer him some rent free months in your rental, maybe next time, if there is one, you will think twice about it. Now about the only thing you can do is tell him in writing when rent is due monthly and if that is not feasible then you will expect him to vacate the premises by such and such date.
As to whether he is making meetings or not ......................... again His Recovery, His Program, and really none of your business Mom. His overall ACTIONS will tell you if he is still in recovery or not, and even if not, not much you can do except not enable and get him out of your rental unit ASAP.
As to your husband, well he has as much right to his opinion as you do to yours and there are times when hubby and wife do not agree. This seems to be one of those times. Is he right? I don't know. Is he wrong? I don't know. What I do understand is he was saying he would not have done what you did regarding the extra dollars your son came into.
The answers are within you. You will find them when you look into your 'motives', all of your motives, for offering him the 'rent free' place to begin with, and your motives for confronting him about the unexpected monies he received. By checking those, writing about those and looking at those motives honestly you will find your answers.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 951
It depends on many things. How much he owes you in back rent, when you told him you expect payment, how much he received in the sale and what other bills he owes. Also how much time has passed since he received the payment.
If his sales are still down and he doesn't know when they will improve, perhaps he has other creditors and financial necessities that must be addressed first.
It might be best to trust that he has good reasons instead of feeling hurt by this.
There are boundary issues that arise when we offer to help bail an adult out of a situation they could have resolved on their own. It sounds possible you might be toeing those boundaries at this point. He is your son, you love him and have been through difficult times, obviously. So it is understandable to have feelings about this.
If you already agreed on a deadline and payment plan this should not alter it. Also, how he is working his program is between him, his sponsor and his HP.
If you have reason to believe he is not sober, that is another issue.
If his sales are still down and he doesn't know when they will improve, perhaps he has other creditors and financial necessities that must be addressed first.
It might be best to trust that he has good reasons instead of feeling hurt by this.
There are boundary issues that arise when we offer to help bail an adult out of a situation they could have resolved on their own. It sounds possible you might be toeing those boundaries at this point. He is your son, you love him and have been through difficult times, obviously. So it is understandable to have feelings about this.
If you already agreed on a deadline and payment plan this should not alter it. Also, how he is working his program is between him, his sponsor and his HP.
If you have reason to believe he is not sober, that is another issue.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 951
I'm going to add that it sounds like you did not define your expectations up front before he moved in to the house. How much you expect, when you expect it, how long he can stay and if he will be expected to pay back rent once he is able. Good communication is key to avoiding problems like this.
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
The following remarks apply to adult children.
As a middle aged woman with adult children I see similar scenarios happening to friends. I've not been a pushover with mine but I have given them help at certain times, and one thing I've learned is that they will take whatever you offer. So it's our responsibility to think very carefully about offering to help them.
I believe that if they're going through hard times it's better for the balance of power to let them come to you and ask. Don't feel you have to rush in to the rescue. If manage to battle through, they will have added to their strength of character and self confidence and if they really do need your help you are in a position to set the terms.
As a middle aged woman with adult children I see similar scenarios happening to friends. I've not been a pushover with mine but I have given them help at certain times, and one thing I've learned is that they will take whatever you offer. So it's our responsibility to think very carefully about offering to help them.
I believe that if they're going through hard times it's better for the balance of power to let them come to you and ask. Don't feel you have to rush in to the rescue. If manage to battle through, they will have added to their strength of character and self confidence and if they really do need your help you are in a position to set the terms.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sunshine, Sea Breeze & Palm Trees
Posts: 282
i think sobet or not, addicts are very selfish people by nature. And even when sober it is something they need to fight against... and not many do it.
my addict owed his parents a tremendous amount of money and whenever he was clean, working and earning a good check (but still had no bills to paid) he never thought about forking some of that money to his poor mom who has loaned him money so many time and was on the bridge of bankruptcy herself. He usually just thanked her by telling her "thanks Mom. I love you soo much" and other forms of flattery like "Mom you look so great." Manipulation at its work.
I know you are hurt and disappointed but I think when it comes to addicts, even recovery addicts... have no expectation but always look out for yourself, even when its's your own son. He is 38... your responsibility was long done with.
my addict owed his parents a tremendous amount of money and whenever he was clean, working and earning a good check (but still had no bills to paid) he never thought about forking some of that money to his poor mom who has loaned him money so many time and was on the bridge of bankruptcy herself. He usually just thanked her by telling her "thanks Mom. I love you soo much" and other forms of flattery like "Mom you look so great." Manipulation at its work.
I know you are hurt and disappointed but I think when it comes to addicts, even recovery addicts... have no expectation but always look out for yourself, even when its's your own son. He is 38... your responsibility was long done with.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Caucasian;West Coast; Husband sometimes breathes fire; hence his nickname Dragon & mine Mrs. Dragon
Posts: 176
Originally Posted by thirdparty 
In a nutshell I'd like to know if any of would have been hurt or offended if this had happened to you. Maybe I am making too much of this . I just need a sounding board. Please bear with me.
I personally dont read selfishness, manipulation into his actions. The only consideration for that would be perhaps if he is aware the free rent' situation is putting a serious financial burdon on you, and he is ignoring the distress it is causing. Otherwise he may think that its not that big of a deal, and your happy to be giving him a big of a break, make his life financially easier for a while.
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 6,728
He is 38, time for him to take care of himself. Addicts are very selfish, it is part of their disease, Me,Me,I,I.
Since I do not know how much he owes you, it is difficult to say what to do. if it is a small amount, I would do one thing, if a large amount I would do another.
In any case, it may be time to let him fend for himself, enabling him is not the answer.
Let him put on his big boy pants and start learning how to become a responsible member of society.
Since I do not know how much he owes you, it is difficult to say what to do. if it is a small amount, I would do one thing, if a large amount I would do another.
In any case, it may be time to let him fend for himself, enabling him is not the answer.
Let him put on his big boy pants and start learning how to become a responsible member of society.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Jungle
Posts: 5,435
When I do something with an open ended expectation, I have set both parties up. I have set myself up for anger and resentment and I have set the other person up for failing to meet my unstated or unclear expectation. It's lose/lose.
There were strings attached to your offer of help. You left it up to him to decide when he was in better financial condition....that's open ended and left to his discretion to tell you when that happened. His opinion differed from yours.
Now that you know that, you can set a specific expectation (as in date) and let go of what has happened.....if you choose to do so.
gentle hugs
ke
There were strings attached to your offer of help. You left it up to him to decide when he was in better financial condition....that's open ended and left to his discretion to tell you when that happened. His opinion differed from yours.
Now that you know that, you can set a specific expectation (as in date) and let go of what has happened.....if you choose to do so.
gentle hugs
ke
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