tjp613

My youngest daughter became of age recently which prompted the need to re-write my will and attend to other estate planning matters.

Hmmmmmm. But I have a 22 year old son who I consider to be an active addict. He may always be one, or 'the miracle' might happen today, next week, or next year.

If I got hit by a bus tomorrow, my children would inherit a substantial amount of money. Not millions, mind you, but enough to buy a house or attend 4 years of college. The thought of my son being handed a check in that amount sends shivers down my spine.

I guess I could set up some kind of trust and if he isn't sober by age ___, the money will go to his sister? Or to other relatives? But how does one define 'sobriety'? Who makes that call??? Or should I leave the money in trust and allow it to pay for housing only?

Anyone else have these issues ... and how have you dealt with it in your plan?

doggonecarl

I am not in your position, but I was the executor for my mom's estate and there were 5 children. Her estate was divided evenly. It's the easiest and fairest thing to do.

Anything else, in my opinion, will just create a lot of drama and upheaval.

Of course, anything you do may cause upheaval, especially with an A in the family. Someone is bound to be unhappy. You said your son was an addict and always will be. That means he'll be one whether he gets your money or not. Might as well be non-judgmental in death and include him in the distribution.

sojourner

Hi tjp13: Good for you for thinking ahead.

I also did not want to enable AS from the grave. I also did not want to put that decision on anyone - especially siblings or other family members. My feeling (Dave Ramsey agrees) is that can set a wedge between siblings that could possibly never be gotten over. So here's what I did. I divided everything evenly between the 3 children. But the portion that would have gone to the AS gets donated to a recovery facility. This facility also allows addicts treatment who have no money. Then I told all my children how it was set up (but I have to say I have not told the AS yet) hopefully so there would be less surprises or embarrassement or humilation. If there is a change in where the AS portion goes, I will be the one to make that change by changing the will.

Hope that helps.

laurie6781

I can share what my Mom did after she discussed it with my sister and I.

She set up her whole estate as a Living Trust, with each beneficiary having the same amount in their trusts overseen by hers. She set up payout dates, for both my sister and I and her grandchildren. My sister and I split 1/2 of the estate and the other half was divided equally among the grandchildren. The younger grandchildren did not get their first payouts until age 30, and then every 5 years after that. Should one of the recipients die before their total share has been delivered, the balance will be divided equally among any heirs they may have left and if no heirs, then is equally divided among all the living recipients of the initial trust.

I have since set mine up the same way.

The big concern for my mother was who was to be the executor of the trust and my sister and I agreed that since she is 11 years younger than me, she should be the executor. She reminds me several times I year how I sure got out of the way of a bullet with that one, roflmao Although she never does anything without talking with me first she still gets to do all the work.

Talk with an attorney that does wills, trusts, estate planning etc and see what is the best way to go where you live. My mom lived in Florida. And she did pass while that estate tax waiver for federal estate taxes was still in effect. My understanding is now that it is back in effect, Uncle Sam will be getting a hefty portion of many estates from now on.

Best to garner some ideas then sit down with a knowledgeable estate attorney, oh and do NOT make that said attorney executor, (s)he can be appointed if you trust said attorney as an 'adviser' to the executor at no more than XX amount of fees.

Hope the above helps a bit.

Love and hugs,

ps: feel free to pm me for more details.

FireSprite

I don't have this issue, but I do work in the financial industry & it has come up many times from clients who have adult children with addictions.

It's definitely something to discuss with your attorney, especially with the legal differences between states, but more than once I've seen the beneficiary structure include a secondary trust that gets created at the Grantor's death for the benefit of the addict & has specific language regarding the use of funds for therapy or holds the beneficiary accountable to sobriety before being able to access the funds. Many times they still allow for some cost of living expenses to be authorized & paid by a Trustee they designate to oversee it all. (typically this trustee is NOT another sibling, too much animosity & friction can result)

So in the case of Client A who has 2 adult children inheriting equally, one being an addict, her beneficiary instructions state that Child #1 inherits 50% automatically & the other 50% reverts to the Trust For Benefit Of Child #2 & that trust document dictates the way the Grantor wants the money to be used in regard to that child's care. If Child #2 passes away before the assets are spent, the remaining portion is inherited by either their children (if any) or back to the remaining sibling, Child #1.

Hope this helps!

SundaysChild

There was a post a while back that had a lot of great discussions. It's worth reviewing.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...tate-plan.html

There's no good answer. It's important to remember that you can always change your mind.

thirdparty

I have your problem and this is what I found out from my attorney. It is never a good idea to give a piece of real estate jointly to siblings. If one has bad debts, or say the addict has a relapse then the property can have a lien placed on it. that meaning the innocent sibling could either have to help pay off the incurred bill or the property could possibly be lost once a lien is put in place.

We have designated an amount of $$$ to be held for our AS. the attorney (not other siblings ) will be in control. AS must pass a monthly drug test to rec. his monthly money. if he flunks one month he doesn't get the money for that particular month. we were told by our attorney that most parents have found this satisfactory as the addict knows what is a stake and the attorney is required by law to give the monthly stipend if the drug tests are passed.

Personally I didn't want an excessive amount of money given to my son at one time and then it create a problem. presently this is our solution. I also did not want what we had to give our other children jeopardized.

I guess individual circumstances really matter the most. In the end I had to trust what the lawyer felt was fair as he knows my sons track record and rehab stints.........as we paid for most of them.

hope this might offer some ideas.

third party......my best to you.

dollydo

A trust can be set up many ways, there can be age requirements, there can be a manager of the trust. You can set it up that your daughter manages the release of the money to your son, such as x # of $'s per year. An attorney can guide you.

tjp613

Thanks for all the input. Lots to think about and an attorney will surely need to be consulted. I better get on it!

oooopps

I think you could set up a trust to pay for necessities only, ie housing and bills. Should your son need extra for emergencies, the trustee should have a set of guidelines to help him/her determine whether the money should be given to your son. The trustee can always pay the creditors directly that way the son doesn't get large sum of cash.

You can also set up the trust for your son for so long until the rest is given to a charity.

Kindeyes

I've struggled with this too. But I have not changed my will at this point. My mother wrote my son out of her will entirely. That's her choice.

I guess my feeling is that I won't have the opportunity to change it back if he should stay sober. I can't have an expectation from the grave nor will I know (or care) what he does with it. If he blows it all on drugs, that's on him not on me.

I've elected to be fair. That's what I can live with today (because right now.....I'm alive) and let go of my fears of what might happen after I am dead. I came to the conclusion that changing my will was just another way that I was trying to control my son.

gentle hugs
ke

Ann

My son is excluded from my will. He has been lost in addiction for so long that it just doesn't make any sense to me to leave him anything. I don't even know where he is. Odds are that I will outlive him anyway, sad to say.

With or without my money, he can choose to live a life of active addiction or choose to be clean. If he chooses to live clean, he will find a way to live well on his own.

That choice made it easy for me to finish my will in a way that felt right. No conditions, just sharing the wealth with all who I named.

Besides, I intend to die the same day I spend my last dollar...which will make the issue mute.

Hugs and good luck because I know this is a tough decision for many here.

MeetJohnDoe

Do all you can to steer your children right while you are alive. Making an oppressive, conditional based trust is a waste of your time and will do nothing you can't do while you are still alive. Either give them the money outright, or appoint a bank-appointed trustee to dole out your money in some rational way. Once you are gone, you have no control. Don't rely on a document that can be corrupted. Give your love in this world and encourage health now. You can't expect some non-involved third party to achieve what you can't or chose not to do.

EJG123

As of present, my AD is not in my will. If she makes a miraculous recovery, then I'll put her back in. In the meantime, she is living with a man who considers her his "wife" and I certainly don't want to give him (or her or any of her sketchy "friends") any reason to think that she'd inherit a bumdle if I died.

tjp613

what??????

dorton

Our AS is not included in our will. We have left everything to our youngest son with the understanding it is up to him to decide if his brother gets any money. I know some will say this is unfair to put on the shoulders of our non addicted son. But he is very mature and I trust his judgement. Our AS son knows how our will is stated and was understanding. There is a statement of love for our AS in our will but that is all. I refuse to provide him with money to kill himself. If that is what happens in his life it will be on money he got somewhere else.

seek

I am pondering this issue at the moment. It seems very complicated. I do not want to leave any money to someone who either has acted in bad faith towards me, or who would use it in a negative way. The money I might be leaving was earned by my father, who came from nothing - and he has trusted me to manage his funds. I would hate for it to be squandered or used for negative purposes.

The issue that seems the most difficult is who to name as Trustee to manage the funds. From reading about this issue on the web, there are many ways to structure how the funds can be distributed, but someone trustworthy (and alive!) has to distribute them. I would never leave that task to a bank or an attorney. It is a difficult problem. Hope I can figure it out.

NoGround

Seek, when you say you would never designate a bank as Trustee, what are your concerns? (I'm with you on not designating an attorney.)

I had the same dilemma about who to designate as Trustee for the trust that will receive my AS's share of my life insurance proceeds. My only two options were my AS's (healthy) brother, who wouldn't pull my AS out of a fire, and the trust department of my hometown bank.

For me, the bank was the perfect choice.

The provisions of the trust are very restrictive, and I had an ongoing dialogue with the trust officers at the bank during the time I was deciding on the precise language. I also ran the final draft by them before I signed it. They asked good "what if" questions that helped me focus my thoughts.

The Trustee has a fiduciary duty to manage trust funds for the benefit of the beneficiary(ies). Banks understand this fiduciary duty.

Leftover

My alcoholic son is married with a family. We are certain this wife knew she was marrying a drug addicted alcoholic whose family was loving, supportive and GENEROUS. after we pulled the plug on the enabling (ie. giving money and help) they banished us from their lives. After consultation with our attorney, we decided to exclude him from our will. The will had to state in print that he was EXCLUDED. Or he could contest the will. Also, if he should die before us, his wife would have claim to his share of our estate. Although this was a heart wrenching decision, we felt it the right one. Being part of a family requires more then just coming from the same womb. He has not acted like a son or brother in 20 years and now has nothing to do with us. Our daughter has promised to take care of his children in any way she can, if she ever sees them or knows how she can help them. We trust her to do what is right for those children. Had we left money to the grandchildren, the greedy little wife would eventually get her hands on it. We did not want that. Can you tell we don't like her one bit?

Ficus

As to naming I trustee, I suggest contacting your local Probate Court to ask if they can provide a list of professional fiduciaries (not limited just to banks or other large entities).
Professional guardians/conservators often have experience dealing with people who have addiction. Another option would be to see if your county/state has public administrators who could also serve as trustee - usually those folks have seen it all and understand the special challenges faced by loved ones of addicts.