Crazed

So before the no contact, the ExAG and her sponsor kept insisting on how sick I am, and how sick my love for her is. I am going to alanon, but do not have a sponsor, which they are both insisting on. They both have stated that if reconciliation is ever possible, i need to work my program and get healthy. Keep my side of the street clean, and she will worry about her side of the street.

Why do i feel like these types of comments place me as the villian in this dysfunctional relationship? Im not the one that had an affair, been relapsing for 5 years, is about to lose my job, possibly looking at jail, etc... But i keep being told how sick I am. Why does love and concern equate to codependency in an addictive relationship? I would have the same love and concern if it was my child that had cancer. I would call to check up on how he was feeling, etc, which seems to to be frowned upon in a relationship with an alcoholic.

Comments?

Katiekate

I know for sure that I was sick.

I had no boundries, I put up with stuff that I would not put up with from anyone else.

I was trying to control, I was always worried, I was always wondering when he would hurt me enough for me to walk away, I took so much crap in the name of love.

My side of the street totally needed to be cleaned up, I think I was afraid to clean it up because it meant I would grow, and he would not, and then I would have to leave.

You are not a villian, but you do have responsibility in the relationship.

An affair, relapses, emotional, mental, spritual abuse, what is keeping you in a relationship with someone who has hurt you so much for so long???

It's not love, it's something else.

fluffyflea

This is what I,m talking about in my detachment post Crazed, we have our own work to do on us. We have a part too.

soberlicious

I understand what you are saying Crazed. While each person has their own work to do and of course is only responsible for themselves, I will absolutely agree with you that quite often even the "normal" courtesies that couples extend to each other, healthy love and concern, can be twisted into co-dependency.

Every single action needn't be rubber stamped "co-dependent" just because it comes from you. Sometimes it's just hard to find the middle again when everything has been so skewed.

Tuffgirl

This is a common debate on this board - the line between plain old concern and full-on codependency. Here's an article I like that explains the difference between codependency and interdependency.

Codependency vs. Interdependency | Psych Central

I don't think you are necessarily being vilified, but you are getting some interesting feedback that maybe you could take into consideration. No harm in working the Al-Anon steps...

dollydo

I was just as sick as my exabf, I needed to work on me, I needed to get healthy...for me.

Are you a villian..no, are you very codependent...yes. If you were not, you would have left long ago. You are and have been obsessed with her...she is not your child, she does not have cancer, you are attempting to justify your behavior, your neediness.

I have had two husbands die of cancer, I do know the difference between codependency and support, when my last husband died I spirled (for a time) into the depths of codependency, meetings, a sponser and this board turned me around.

LifeRecovery

I look as recovery as expanding my options to choose from. I also have a much better handle on why I am doing them then I did previously.

My "caring and concern" previously were coming from a very codependent place. It is what I learned as a child and I did not know any other way to do it. I did not have a choice, I never included myself in the equation. I just did it how I learned it.

I might still at times behave similarly and it not be codependency because I have a choice in how I do it now. I am able to step back and think through other options. Where my "giving" is usually coming from is different.

That is what my recovery gave to me.

Impurrfect

When I first came to SR, I was an RA (recovering addict). It didn't take long until I found I was also, and most importantly, a codependent. I turned to drugs to deal with the fact I couldn't fix my XAB.

I was angry. Why did *I* need to work "a program" when HE was the one with the problem. Over time, I realized how much I had become a part of the problem. As ((dolly)) said, I was just as sick as he was.

Somewhere along the way, I found freedom in the fact that I had a part in the dysfunction. I could change, and even though HE didn't, I could go on with life! OMG, it was like a revelation!!

Didn't mean I didn't love him, I did. It just meant that I couldnt fix him and could only fix myself. I'm still dealing with addicts who are active (family members) but I'm stronger, and I don't fall into the trap I used to.

I admit....the hardest thing I had to do was admit MY part in the dysfunction....then I had to forgive myself. When we know better, we do better.

Hugs and prayers,

Amy

ZiggyB

Crazed,
There were definitely times when I felt vilified by the ex -- usually that was when I would become angry at the constant broken promises, crazy behavior and lies. There was definitely a way in which I was obsessed with him and what he was doing. I was talking to a girlfriend last night who said she would not have put up with his antics for as long as I did.

So I don't know, I think there is a way in which we get as sick as they are and become totally irrational ourselves. Just like katiekate said, I took so much crap in the name of love, my boundaries were trampled on and I practically had a nervous breakdown when we broke up.

Love is not about "fixing" someone or getting them to do what we want them to do. It's a lesson I have definitely learned the hard way.

Florence

My litmus test: Would a healthy person be in this relationship?

LexieCat

But would you continue to insist on going to visit the child and, let's say, hugging him if the doctor had told you that the child's immune system was down and was very susceptible to infection?

This is analogous. Her sponsor (who absolutely is not a doctor, but knows more about what will help your ex recover than you do) has said that RIGHT NOW it is not healthy for her to be in contact with you.

And we here (who are not doctors either, but have been around the block a few times in terms of knowing what is healthy for partners of alcoholics) are suggesting that it isn't good for YOU to continue to engage in this insanity.

Since you have been posting, what *I* am seeing is someone who absolutely cannot resist calling this woman, going to her house, having her over, no matter how strenuously you have declared that you would not. Doesn't that sound a little like the alcoholic saying every day, "That's it, I'm done with drinking," and then going back out for more the same day? You don't think that's indicative of illness of a sort? A form of addiction?

Now, saying that you're a little bit nuts right now isn't a moral judgment. We've all been there. We aren't any better than you. But eventually we were forced, one way or another, to acknowledge our unhealthy behaviors when it came to our interactions with the alcoholic. So it's no more "vilification" for someone to suggest that you may be sick in some ways, than it is for us--for you--to recognize that SHE is an alcoholic.

choublak

Why is HER sponsor focusing so much on YOU?

LexieCat

My take was that she said that in the interest of her sponsee's well-being, to try to enlist both parties' cooperation in removing an obstacle to her recovery. I could be wrong, but that was how I took it.

dollydo

Jeez, that is just too simple...don't ya know that we codies need to complicate everything?

wiscsober

Before I attended Al-Anon I knew I had high levels of worrying and anxiety, but even being sober I really didn't see the problem. I now realize the worrying and anxiety were more easy to bear when I wasn't in a relationship, but in a committed relationship I was driving myself crazy. I was the one trying to control and breaking a lot of boundaries. Relationships can be mended through living a life of mental sobriety.

redatlanta

I would have never called myself codependent or enabling and I fought going to Al Anon. Since no one on here could tell me WHY RAH relapsed or WHAT I could do to stop it I decided to go so someone there could tell me.

What I discovered was I was exhausted. I ***** footed around RAH and had for a year and a half because he was sensitive, and emotional, and angry and I wanted him to be happy. So I regularly did things I DID NOT want to do. I also did things I did want to do. And no matter what I did - he was still sensitive, emotional and angry and I was so tired I didn't even know I had a VOICE or a RIGHT to stop.

Well I found my voice. And I stopped being super woman. I started taking care of myself. I let him take care of himself.

We are both happier and are relationship is healthy - while the end of his relapse was a blessing it had little to do with the problems in our relationship- they existed long before he drank.

choublak

I was under the impression that things were supposed to be strictly between sponsor and sponsee...

Crazed

Thank you all for the insight. I agree that i am addicted to the addicted. I do believe my heart is in the right place, and use that to justify my actions. I guess my ego says i know better than her sponsor. And dammit, she has been regularly going to AA for so many years, WITH NO RESULTS. So perhaps, illogically and subconsciously, i am resentful to the program. This brings up a thought that i have had for years, that i am afraid to post in a new thread - "Does AA enable the alcoholic.". I mean with her, it is white chip after white chip with open arms. At some point i wish AA would shut its doors and say "listen girl, its time you go get some professional help.". .... I digress.

Apparently it was determined that EXAG views me as her higher power, and when she does not get the approval or acceptance from me, she acts out. I am a "bottle with legs," and somehow contribute to EXAG drinking. Although I do not cause her to drink, she often uses my actions to internally justify her drinking. And finally EXAG has stated that she wants us both to be healthy so we can have a healthy future (with or without each other). At the end of the day, her sponsor is adamant about EXAG doing this on her own, and me not around. I am not sure if she means forever, but definitely for right now. I think she wants me to get a sponsor and work alanon program in case we ever do get back together, it would be healthier for HER.

fluffyflea

And it would be healthier for YOU, never mind HER. How about take what you need and leave the rest the basic message being that you need to focus on you for your recovery.

LexieCat

As an alcoholic in recovery, myself, what her sponsor is saying makes a whole lot of sense to me. The alcoholic's sobriety should not depend on any other person, place, thing or situation. All of those can change. Heck, let's say you get back together and one day you drop dead of a heart attack. Do you want her to go back to drinking because her sobriety depended on you?

Likewise, your emotional "sobriety" should not depend on whether she is in your life, drinking her brains out, or other external circumstances.

Those are goals worth working toward. AA doesn't "enable" anyone by welcoming them back after drinking. AA is not a spouse or a lover, it is a place to get well. Lots of people go in and out of the rooms for a long time before they get sober and stay that way. They tend to do better when they eliminate unnecessary drama from their lives for a while. Relationships--some of them--are full of drama. Those patterns sometimes need to be interrupted for a while.

I suggest you try to quit picking apart her program and focus on your own.