First post- need advice? ( it's kinda long and complicated...)
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 11
First post- need advice? ( it's kinda long and complicated...)
Hello!
This is my first post here. I have been visiting this site for a while, looking for answers and some insight into what my friend must be going through. I am in all sorts of confused states about this friendship, its my first with somebody in recovery and I am not sure how to proceed.
I met my friend about 7 months ago, via an online dating site. We clicked immediately and for a few weeks we were chatting daily. I found him to be very funny and intelligent but every now and then he would make a strange, self-deprecating comment. He also seemed really in to me and he wanted to chat all the time. He would send messages to me in the middle of the night , telling me he was smitten with me, and that I made him feel really good about himself. Not usual behavior for me, but then again I liked him and he seemed genuine and honest. Then he disappeared.... It hurt my feelings but I eventually deleted him from my phone and moved on..( the one that got away etc...)
Three weeks later, out of the blue, he sent me an email. He apologized and said he wasn't a bad person but that he just wasn't ready for a relationship right now, because he was in recovery. He told me he was over a year sober and was living in a sober living facility with some other guys. He wanted to let me know that because he liked me a lot and didn't want me to think he was messing me around. I left it a few days, and then responded by saying I was willing to be a friend for him. Of course we started the daily chatting again.....Some of those chats became quite flirty.
Our friendship continued and I asked him when we could meet. It took him a month to agree to meeting me, he would say YES, and then cancel because he felt depressed. Eventually though we had lunch together. It went really well. So well in fact that the "date" lasted 6 hours and ended up with us making out after he spontaneously reached over to kiss me ( which I didn't refuse) That night he called and we talked about getting together again and visiting each other on weekends etc. He said he had a fantastic time and was really liking the way he felt with me.
Then after a few days ( and a meeting with is sponsor) he started to pull away... We kept talking daily but he said he couldn't give me a relationship right now because his recovery must come first. He added that he wanted to take it slow and see what would develop though as he felt attracted to me. I was fine with that. I work long hours through the week and only really have one weekend a month free. I am also somebody who likes to be friends first and I certainly wouldn't want to do anything to jeopardize his recovery. This continued for a few months. We met again a few times for dinner or lunches, which were nice. We would hold hands and hug but nothing sexual as such.
He talked to me more and more about his life and his alcoholism. He suffers from depression and major self-esteem issues. He admitted that his drinking comes from his insecurity and social anxiety. He then started to say that he is too boring for me and that he didn't see a long term relationship for us because I am outgoing and have a lot of energy and ' other men would be attracted to me so I might as well find someone else'. He said that that is why he was attracted to me in the first place, because I am 'confident and never boring' and I made him feel sexy because his other girlfriends had been more introverted. He thought a relationship with me would be lots of fun and he would love to be physical but that at this point in his recovery he was not ready. He kept saying that physical relationships lead to emotional commitments and that it was dangerous but as long as we keep it "in the friend zone" it is okay and he would love to keep talking, and meeting up occasionally. He apologized for making out with me, and said he did it because he was impulsive, he wanted me and he just did it without thinking of the consequences. Funny thing is, I have a lot of male friends. We don't have these sorts of conversations.
At this point a lot of the romantic feelings I had for him have already disappeared but I do care about and for him a great deal. These last few weeks have been difficult. We had a few nice phone calls and then one really awkward one in which he seemed a little annoyed with me. He has been distant sometimes and I sensed something was up. I would text him and he wouldn't always respond and he didn't want to talk on the phone anymore. I asked him yesterday what was going on and after a few hours he responded that he thought it was better if we went our separate ways. About a minute later he texted again to say that he was sorry and that he wanted to give me more but that he had to be selfish if he was going to get through this, that he enjoyed chatting with me a lot and that it had been great. I asked him if he minded if I check in with him from time to time and he said he would appreciate that. A few minutes later he sent another text saying that he can handle a friendship with his two other close friends because they don't talk that often and that's okay. He said he cared for me and didn't want me to be hurt. We texted back and forth about a guy in his house who had killed himself and how that served as a reminder to him to be focused and committed. And that was it.
This morning I saw that he had logged out of our instant messaging program that we use and it suddenly hit me- I may never speak to him again. I am quite devastated. Although I don't really see the two of us dating I have become very attached to him. I care about his well being and am very upset that it is over.
I do understand that his recovery must come first, and I also appreciate that he has a long way to go before he gets there. I respect that he is putting himself first to save his life and that it's selfish of me to expect otherwise but why does this hurt so much? He cannot give me the physical/ romantic relationship I want with somebody right now, I am okay with that, but why does that also mean that we can't be friends? What do you think the chances are of us catching up with each other a few months down the road? Can I ever be friends with this guy? Like I said I have never experienced something like this before and I feel so confused and sad. I wish it hadn't become so complicated and that we could just hang out and talk like I do with a lot of my other friends. Except of course, that they are not in recovery....
Any advice about ways to process this appreciated.....Its still fresh of course, but it hurts like heck.
This is my first post here. I have been visiting this site for a while, looking for answers and some insight into what my friend must be going through. I am in all sorts of confused states about this friendship, its my first with somebody in recovery and I am not sure how to proceed.
I met my friend about 7 months ago, via an online dating site. We clicked immediately and for a few weeks we were chatting daily. I found him to be very funny and intelligent but every now and then he would make a strange, self-deprecating comment. He also seemed really in to me and he wanted to chat all the time. He would send messages to me in the middle of the night , telling me he was smitten with me, and that I made him feel really good about himself. Not usual behavior for me, but then again I liked him and he seemed genuine and honest. Then he disappeared.... It hurt my feelings but I eventually deleted him from my phone and moved on..( the one that got away etc...)
Three weeks later, out of the blue, he sent me an email. He apologized and said he wasn't a bad person but that he just wasn't ready for a relationship right now, because he was in recovery. He told me he was over a year sober and was living in a sober living facility with some other guys. He wanted to let me know that because he liked me a lot and didn't want me to think he was messing me around. I left it a few days, and then responded by saying I was willing to be a friend for him. Of course we started the daily chatting again.....Some of those chats became quite flirty.
Our friendship continued and I asked him when we could meet. It took him a month to agree to meeting me, he would say YES, and then cancel because he felt depressed. Eventually though we had lunch together. It went really well. So well in fact that the "date" lasted 6 hours and ended up with us making out after he spontaneously reached over to kiss me ( which I didn't refuse) That night he called and we talked about getting together again and visiting each other on weekends etc. He said he had a fantastic time and was really liking the way he felt with me.
Then after a few days ( and a meeting with is sponsor) he started to pull away... We kept talking daily but he said he couldn't give me a relationship right now because his recovery must come first. He added that he wanted to take it slow and see what would develop though as he felt attracted to me. I was fine with that. I work long hours through the week and only really have one weekend a month free. I am also somebody who likes to be friends first and I certainly wouldn't want to do anything to jeopardize his recovery. This continued for a few months. We met again a few times for dinner or lunches, which were nice. We would hold hands and hug but nothing sexual as such.
He talked to me more and more about his life and his alcoholism. He suffers from depression and major self-esteem issues. He admitted that his drinking comes from his insecurity and social anxiety. He then started to say that he is too boring for me and that he didn't see a long term relationship for us because I am outgoing and have a lot of energy and ' other men would be attracted to me so I might as well find someone else'. He said that that is why he was attracted to me in the first place, because I am 'confident and never boring' and I made him feel sexy because his other girlfriends had been more introverted. He thought a relationship with me would be lots of fun and he would love to be physical but that at this point in his recovery he was not ready. He kept saying that physical relationships lead to emotional commitments and that it was dangerous but as long as we keep it "in the friend zone" it is okay and he would love to keep talking, and meeting up occasionally. He apologized for making out with me, and said he did it because he was impulsive, he wanted me and he just did it without thinking of the consequences. Funny thing is, I have a lot of male friends. We don't have these sorts of conversations.
At this point a lot of the romantic feelings I had for him have already disappeared but I do care about and for him a great deal. These last few weeks have been difficult. We had a few nice phone calls and then one really awkward one in which he seemed a little annoyed with me. He has been distant sometimes and I sensed something was up. I would text him and he wouldn't always respond and he didn't want to talk on the phone anymore. I asked him yesterday what was going on and after a few hours he responded that he thought it was better if we went our separate ways. About a minute later he texted again to say that he was sorry and that he wanted to give me more but that he had to be selfish if he was going to get through this, that he enjoyed chatting with me a lot and that it had been great. I asked him if he minded if I check in with him from time to time and he said he would appreciate that. A few minutes later he sent another text saying that he can handle a friendship with his two other close friends because they don't talk that often and that's okay. He said he cared for me and didn't want me to be hurt. We texted back and forth about a guy in his house who had killed himself and how that served as a reminder to him to be focused and committed. And that was it.
This morning I saw that he had logged out of our instant messaging program that we use and it suddenly hit me- I may never speak to him again. I am quite devastated. Although I don't really see the two of us dating I have become very attached to him. I care about his well being and am very upset that it is over.
I do understand that his recovery must come first, and I also appreciate that he has a long way to go before he gets there. I respect that he is putting himself first to save his life and that it's selfish of me to expect otherwise but why does this hurt so much? He cannot give me the physical/ romantic relationship I want with somebody right now, I am okay with that, but why does that also mean that we can't be friends? What do you think the chances are of us catching up with each other a few months down the road? Can I ever be friends with this guy? Like I said I have never experienced something like this before and I feel so confused and sad. I wish it hadn't become so complicated and that we could just hang out and talk like I do with a lot of my other friends. Except of course, that they are not in recovery....
Any advice about ways to process this appreciated.....Its still fresh of course, but it hurts like heck.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,452
Yorkshire, I am sorry that you are in this situation and that it hurts so much.
If you are new to having a friend who is an alcoholic, then doing some real studying about the disease will probably help you understand your friend much better. This is a lot of information about alcoholism on this site. Try reading the "stickies" on the Friends and Family forum - they are the threads at the top of the forum page and deal with universal topics of interest to friends and families of alcoholics.
One thing that I've learned from spending 8 months on this site is "If they tell you who they are, believe them".
Your friend is going through a terribly difficult transition from being dependent on and trapped by the disease of alcoholism to learning how to recover and live a healthy life. He is probably very right that he needs to focus intensely on his recovery. And if he feels that he is tempted for more of a relationship with you and that it would distract him from his recovery, then he is wise to honor that. And it is brave of him to give up the potential of a relationship with you and focus on his recovery.
So, to be the best friend you can for him, I would say let him go. That's what he knows he needs now, that is what his sponsor knows he needs, and having just had a friend die of a relapse, he needs to be totally committed to his recovery.
It is a very hard life to live with an alcoholic, and even those in recovery have a high chance of relapse. I wonder what it is about you that keeps drawing you back to him, even though it is not in his best interest. That might be worth thinking about.
I am very sorry for the pain you're in, and send you my best wishes.
ShootingStar1
If you are new to having a friend who is an alcoholic, then doing some real studying about the disease will probably help you understand your friend much better. This is a lot of information about alcoholism on this site. Try reading the "stickies" on the Friends and Family forum - they are the threads at the top of the forum page and deal with universal topics of interest to friends and families of alcoholics.
One thing that I've learned from spending 8 months on this site is "If they tell you who they are, believe them".
Your friend is going through a terribly difficult transition from being dependent on and trapped by the disease of alcoholism to learning how to recover and live a healthy life. He is probably very right that he needs to focus intensely on his recovery. And if he feels that he is tempted for more of a relationship with you and that it would distract him from his recovery, then he is wise to honor that. And it is brave of him to give up the potential of a relationship with you and focus on his recovery.
So, to be the best friend you can for him, I would say let him go. That's what he knows he needs now, that is what his sponsor knows he needs, and having just had a friend die of a relapse, he needs to be totally committed to his recovery.
It is a very hard life to live with an alcoholic, and even those in recovery have a high chance of relapse. I wonder what it is about you that keeps drawing you back to him, even though it is not in his best interest. That might be worth thinking about.
I am very sorry for the pain you're in, and send you my best wishes.
ShootingStar1
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Welcome, yorkshire. A couple things jumped out at me in your post:
Believe him. This is very good information he is offering up on a silver platter. Don't write this off as him just being self deprecating.
And so now he's compulsive, which is a common trait of alcoholics and addicts. They act first without thinking of the consequences, or as we say a lot around here "playing the tape all the way forward".
You are disappointed. And honestly, I believe you were conned. You met this guy on a dating website. What a farce! He's not ready to date (so he says) and I would imagine if he is still living in a sober facility, he may be sober less than a year, which is why his sponsor is telling him no relationships. So you meet him on a dating website and then he proceeds to say he doesn't have that to offer? Hon, that's setting up false pretenses right from the start.
It hurts because you liked him, he let you down, and that feels like crap to anyone. It's ok to hurt over it. But I have to ask...why are you not mad, too? He led you on and played with your emotions here. Aren't you even just a little angry about that? How is that fair? If someone is on a dating website, it is a natural assumption to make to think they actually want to DATE. Not be friends. Not chat endlessly. But DATE.
I would not recommend you finding your seat on this roller coaster ride. If I had all these red flags before I married my alcoholic...well...I would have saved myself several years of pain and heartache. There is someone out there for you. Its not this guy!
He then started to say that he is too boring for me and that he didn't see a long term relationship for us because I am outgoing and have a lot of energy and ' other men would be attracted to me so I might as well find someone else'.
He apologized for making out with me, and said he did it because he was impulsive, he wanted me and he just did it without thinking of the consequences.
why does this hurt so much? He cannot give me the physical/ romantic relationship I want with somebody right now, I am okay with that, but why does that also mean that we can't be friends? What do you think the chances are of us catching up with each other a few months down the road? Can I ever be friends with this guy?
It hurts because you liked him, he let you down, and that feels like crap to anyone. It's ok to hurt over it. But I have to ask...why are you not mad, too? He led you on and played with your emotions here. Aren't you even just a little angry about that? How is that fair? If someone is on a dating website, it is a natural assumption to make to think they actually want to DATE. Not be friends. Not chat endlessly. But DATE.
I would not recommend you finding your seat on this roller coaster ride. If I had all these red flags before I married my alcoholic...well...I would have saved myself several years of pain and heartache. There is someone out there for you. Its not this guy!
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: California
Posts: 693
It sounds like he has done you a favor. Believe everything he says and move on. Fast.
You may want to take a close look at why you are clinging so hard to someone who is not healthy or available. Good books to read are "Under The Influence" by Milam & Ketchum (explains the physiology of alcoholism) and "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie (it's for those of us who find ourselves attracted to addicts).
You may want to take a close look at why you are clinging so hard to someone who is not healthy or available. Good books to read are "Under The Influence" by Milam & Ketchum (explains the physiology of alcoholism) and "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie (it's for those of us who find ourselves attracted to addicts).
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SAN FRANCISCO
Posts: 1,176
You could be friends if you both wanted to but it sounds like he really needs to do some work on himself. He is doing you a favor, you can certainly find someone with fewer issues who is more stable and ready for something more. It's too bad you got attached to him, but at least it didn't go any further. It sounds to me like he's been messing with your head a bit.
By the way, my axbf was a lot more sociable and outgoing than I was and he was always trying to take me out to parties where he and his friends were drinking. I am fairly introverted with social anxiety issues and that was a major issue for us among many. You might also want to think about how compatible you really would be with this person.
By the way, my axbf was a lot more sociable and outgoing than I was and he was always trying to take me out to parties where he and his friends were drinking. I am fairly introverted with social anxiety issues and that was a major issue for us among many. You might also want to think about how compatible you really would be with this person.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I dunno, this whole deal is setting off all kinds of alarms and red flags for me, and it's hard for me to articulate why.
I'm very familiar with alcoholics in and out of recovery. But I've also dealt with many seriously dangerous men (in law enforcement for many years). Something about the way this all has played out, the things he has said, it doesn't JIBE. Have you ever actually met any of these people from his sober living house? Do you know that he has told you the truth about ANYTHING?
As I said, it's hard for me to explain, but I think this goes way beyond "normal" alcoholic-in-early-recovery behavior. Maybe there are details that would make me look at it differently, but something smells bad, very bad, to me.
If he turns up again, I wouldn't renew the relationship (such as it is). I feel creeped out.
I'm very familiar with alcoholics in and out of recovery. But I've also dealt with many seriously dangerous men (in law enforcement for many years). Something about the way this all has played out, the things he has said, it doesn't JIBE. Have you ever actually met any of these people from his sober living house? Do you know that he has told you the truth about ANYTHING?
As I said, it's hard for me to explain, but I think this goes way beyond "normal" alcoholic-in-early-recovery behavior. Maybe there are details that would make me look at it differently, but something smells bad, very bad, to me.
If he turns up again, I wouldn't renew the relationship (such as it is). I feel creeped out.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
Something here is weird.
Whatever is happening with this guy, it's clear he doesn't want a relationship and isn't invested in having one. He has also said so several times. He also said he's not really interested in a friendship either.
I'd believe him.
Whatever is happening with this guy, it's clear he doesn't want a relationship and isn't invested in having one. He has also said so several times. He also said he's not really interested in a friendship either.
I'd believe him.
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 386
I'm sorry, hon. Like the others, something strikes me as strange too -- maybe because of fraudulent online relationships being in the news. At the very least, this guy is dealing with some serious issues, living in a less that ideal situation (as far as beginning a relationship goes) and seeming very unsure of himself/his wants/his needs.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 81
It sounds like he's in a polite way trying to communicate that he's "just not that into you" at this point. Coming from a gal who's had more scenarios like this than she can count, I can tell you it will hurt for a bit but the sooner you let go and start moving on the better you'll feel. A lot of it is letting go of the fantasy relationship in our own head -- the "what could be" that we've already invested in this person, especially if at the beginning they seemed really into it, and you get really really confused how/why that could have changed.
But here are a couple things on the positive:
A) He is communicating this very politely to you, he could have been much more of a jerk about it
B) Ask anyone who's had a relationship with an A or even RA, it's not recommended
C) The quicker you can get de-tangled emotionally for this guy, the more ready you can be for the *right* one
But here are a couple things on the positive:
A) He is communicating this very politely to you, he could have been much more of a jerk about it
B) Ask anyone who's had a relationship with an A or even RA, it's not recommended
C) The quicker you can get de-tangled emotionally for this guy, the more ready you can be for the *right* one
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
Red Flags are not party favors and do not collect them!
There are so many red flags and warning bells here and frankly alcoholics in active addiction or early recovery ARE NOT relationship material.
And the quality of the recovery and growth of a person to someone of honesty, integrity and depth of character is something that you will not be able to measure unless he were to become more transparent and he is still mystery man. Mystery man with depression, arrest record, baggage, the disease o alcoholism and that's just what you know about!!!
Run. Do not pass Go. Run as fast as you can for the exits. Do not look back!!
There are so many red flags and warning bells here and frankly alcoholics in active addiction or early recovery ARE NOT relationship material.
And the quality of the recovery and growth of a person to someone of honesty, integrity and depth of character is something that you will not be able to measure unless he were to become more transparent and he is still mystery man. Mystery man with depression, arrest record, baggage, the disease o alcoholism and that's just what you know about!!!
Run. Do not pass Go. Run as fast as you can for the exits. Do not look back!!
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
About 1/3 of the way through your story my gut was telling me the guy is married.
Obviously I don't know him or anything other than what you have written but something here is more than just about getting sober.
Run, run, run as fast as you can. We like to attribute every personality characteristic soley to alcoholism - this reeks of something else.
You are working awfully hard to maintain a relationship with someone you have only seen for 6 hours." He cannot give me the physical/ romantic relationship I want with somebody right now, I am okay with that" You are? Why? Why in the world would you be ok with someone not giving you the baseline foundation of a relationship which is what you want?
You got lucky he didn't pursue it and I am sorry it hurts - My guess is this isn't the last time you will hear from him. My guess also is that your "relationship" will never be more than what you described .........
Obviously I don't know him or anything other than what you have written but something here is more than just about getting sober.
Run, run, run as fast as you can. We like to attribute every personality characteristic soley to alcoholism - this reeks of something else.
You are working awfully hard to maintain a relationship with someone you have only seen for 6 hours." He cannot give me the physical/ romantic relationship I want with somebody right now, I am okay with that" You are? Why? Why in the world would you be ok with someone not giving you the baseline foundation of a relationship which is what you want?
You got lucky he didn't pursue it and I am sorry it hurts - My guess is this isn't the last time you will hear from him. My guess also is that your "relationship" will never be more than what you described .........
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 11
Thank you all for those insights. I have been trying to write a response but would write, then delete, write then delete because I couldn't quite figure out what to say and how to say it.....
I guess, to be honest, I am a little shocked by some of your responses. Of course I do not know what brought you here. I sense that a lot of you have had to deal with years of broken promises and lies and that moving on from that involves (re)defining yourself and letting go. It's so true that it is easy to let ourselves disappear in relationships and I now know that the key to my happiness in future relationships lies in finding the right balance. If anything this friendship (and in particular the way I have let it get to me) has taught me that I need to figure out where my own boundaries are. I read on another thread the question "would you put up with that in a healthy relationship?' That is the key here. I have rejected potential dates because something wasn't right, and yet I continued with this for 7 months. What's the deal with that ..... ?
But I guess what shocked me was the advice from most of you that ALL (recovering) alcoholics are to be avoided at all costs, even as friends. Do alcoholics never recover completely?
Like I said I don't really know much about the disease of alcoholism but I couldn't identify my (ex)friend in your descriptions of a dangerous, criminal, mystery man. He doesn't have a criminal record, he holds down a very well paying job ( I am a lawyer, I checked him out....) and he shared with me a lot of things about his personal life.
What I do see though is perhaps even worse- a broken man with crippling self esteem issues who is struggling to rebuild his life. Although he is an adult, he lives with others also in recovery because he can't handle life by himself, his life basically consists of his job during the day, meetings and chores in the house every evening followed by more work, a bit of tv and then bed. Weekends are more of the same. ( now I read that I am like - wow! he sounds awful, now I really wonder what this is about for me!)
I don't think he contacted me on the dating site because he was trying to do any harm to me. We never had sex, I didn't loan him money or buy him things. I do think he was lying to himself about his readiness to have a relationship/ friendship. I agree Tuffgirl; he had no business being on that dating site. I did feel cheated at first. I was angry. I told him so. I am still angry I guess, not that it does any good!
I guess, to be honest, I am a little shocked by some of your responses. Of course I do not know what brought you here. I sense that a lot of you have had to deal with years of broken promises and lies and that moving on from that involves (re)defining yourself and letting go. It's so true that it is easy to let ourselves disappear in relationships and I now know that the key to my happiness in future relationships lies in finding the right balance. If anything this friendship (and in particular the way I have let it get to me) has taught me that I need to figure out where my own boundaries are. I read on another thread the question "would you put up with that in a healthy relationship?' That is the key here. I have rejected potential dates because something wasn't right, and yet I continued with this for 7 months. What's the deal with that ..... ?
But I guess what shocked me was the advice from most of you that ALL (recovering) alcoholics are to be avoided at all costs, even as friends. Do alcoholics never recover completely?
Like I said I don't really know much about the disease of alcoholism but I couldn't identify my (ex)friend in your descriptions of a dangerous, criminal, mystery man. He doesn't have a criminal record, he holds down a very well paying job ( I am a lawyer, I checked him out....) and he shared with me a lot of things about his personal life.
What I do see though is perhaps even worse- a broken man with crippling self esteem issues who is struggling to rebuild his life. Although he is an adult, he lives with others also in recovery because he can't handle life by himself, his life basically consists of his job during the day, meetings and chores in the house every evening followed by more work, a bit of tv and then bed. Weekends are more of the same. ( now I read that I am like - wow! he sounds awful, now I really wonder what this is about for me!)
I don't think he contacted me on the dating site because he was trying to do any harm to me. We never had sex, I didn't loan him money or buy him things. I do think he was lying to himself about his readiness to have a relationship/ friendship. I agree Tuffgirl; he had no business being on that dating site. I did feel cheated at first. I was angry. I told him so. I am still angry I guess, not that it does any good!
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
But I guess what shocked me was the advice from most of you that ALL (recovering) alcoholics are to be avoided at all costs, even as friends. Do alcoholics never recover completely?
A lot of us have very different boundaries around relationships with people who are alcoholics. We all pretty much agree that a relationship with an active alcoholic is a no-go all around for a whole slew of reasons. A recovered alcoholic? It's possible. However it's advised that people in early stages of recovery (up to five years sober, minimum of one year) have so much personal growth to do that a relationship is not recommended. Relationships during this time tend to hold back the recovery arc.
Friends and family seem to be under the impression that once you remove the booze that the "old guy" will be back, whatever that means, and everything will be okay or "return to normal." It's often not that simple.
This is the conventional wisdom, and IMO, it's some good guidelines.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Read as much as you can on addictions and addicted people.
Question your desire to even be friends with someone who is emotionally unavailable, especially someone who was not entirely upfront and forthright with you. I know what my reasons are now, after several years of introspection. Its part comfort-level from past issues and part thrill of the challenge. Nice guys are easy. F-ed up guys are exciting and dramatic!
Lastly, know that no one is saying NEVER EVER here. What we all are saying is you'd better be ready for the roller coaster ride, because it is one. We all have been on this ride. Some of us got off. Some are still on and trying not to puke on their shoes. Some choose to stay on and find a way past the chaos to serenity while living with active addictions. No one here is telling you not to do anything - just offering you the collective wisdom of all our situations to say there are a lot of red flags here that strangers can see. Pay attention to them!
Question your desire to even be friends with someone who is emotionally unavailable, especially someone who was not entirely upfront and forthright with you. I know what my reasons are now, after several years of introspection. Its part comfort-level from past issues and part thrill of the challenge. Nice guys are easy. F-ed up guys are exciting and dramatic!
Lastly, know that no one is saying NEVER EVER here. What we all are saying is you'd better be ready for the roller coaster ride, because it is one. We all have been on this ride. Some of us got off. Some are still on and trying not to puke on their shoes. Some choose to stay on and find a way past the chaos to serenity while living with active addictions. No one here is telling you not to do anything - just offering you the collective wisdom of all our situations to say there are a lot of red flags here that strangers can see. Pay attention to them!
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 11
I do believe that its over. I have no plan to contact him. I deleted his phone number and removed him from my favorites. I don't think he will contact me either. He may get lonely again and try and find someone else in a few weeks, in the best case he will spend quality time working on himself. I wish him well, and I believe he is a good person. Funny thing is... I realized this afternoon that I probably would no longer be attracted to him if he hadn't had these issues. The attraction was very likely his unavailability..... ( the challenge?, who knows...)
All that is left now is for me to figure out why I let this happen. I have gone back and forward in my mind these past few days, trying to figure out if he even liked me, looking for some comfort in that. The answer is that I will probably never know, and that it's totally irrelevant anyway.
It's irrelevant because really, bottom line here is that having a relationship with him ( right now/ at all?) is dangerous. Its dangerous to him because he can not permit himself any distractions, he can't take his eye off the prize for even more than a second. The consequences for doing so are so awful ( he already explained to me that had relapsed in the past and his relapses were heavy and serious). But more importantly, its dangerous to me because I would (and did ) lose myself. I don't want to be crying over my friends, I don't want to think that somebody's mental health and well being depends on me. I want to be free of all this.
All that is left now is for me to figure out why I let this happen. I have gone back and forward in my mind these past few days, trying to figure out if he even liked me, looking for some comfort in that. The answer is that I will probably never know, and that it's totally irrelevant anyway.
It's irrelevant because really, bottom line here is that having a relationship with him ( right now/ at all?) is dangerous. Its dangerous to him because he can not permit himself any distractions, he can't take his eye off the prize for even more than a second. The consequences for doing so are so awful ( he already explained to me that had relapsed in the past and his relapses were heavy and serious). But more importantly, its dangerous to me because I would (and did ) lose myself. I don't want to be crying over my friends, I don't want to think that somebody's mental health and well being depends on me. I want to be free of all this.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I am an alcoholic in recovery and my first husband has been sober for 33 years. So, yes, alcoholics can, and do, recover.
What *I* was saying here (and a few other were saying, too) is that this does not *look* like an alcoholic in recovery. His story does not ring true to me, in any way, shape or form. I have been around alcoholics in recovery for 33 years. I've seen people who are honestly struggling, people who are hopeless unless a miracle happens, and people who are well on their way to full recovery. What you are describing sounds like NONE of these, to me.
Here is what it sounds like to me: Someone pathological (i.e., with problems far more serious than alcoholism). His story sounds like a lie to me. I don't know what his motives might be (unless, as redatlanta suggested, he is married), but even if that were the case, why choose to pose as someone in recovery? The only thing I can come up with is that he senses you are someone who would be vulnerable to someone like that.
I could be completely wrong, and he could, indeed, be the struggling alcoholic he claims to be. But that isn't how it strikes me.
Even if he is, though, everything he claims to be, he is painting a picture of someone with a ton of emotional baggage that you don't need in your life. There are healthy people out there to have a REAL relationship with, not this pseudo-friendship he is offering you.
What *I* was saying here (and a few other were saying, too) is that this does not *look* like an alcoholic in recovery. His story does not ring true to me, in any way, shape or form. I have been around alcoholics in recovery for 33 years. I've seen people who are honestly struggling, people who are hopeless unless a miracle happens, and people who are well on their way to full recovery. What you are describing sounds like NONE of these, to me.
Here is what it sounds like to me: Someone pathological (i.e., with problems far more serious than alcoholism). His story sounds like a lie to me. I don't know what his motives might be (unless, as redatlanta suggested, he is married), but even if that were the case, why choose to pose as someone in recovery? The only thing I can come up with is that he senses you are someone who would be vulnerable to someone like that.
I could be completely wrong, and he could, indeed, be the struggling alcoholic he claims to be. But that isn't how it strikes me.
Even if he is, though, everything he claims to be, he is painting a picture of someone with a ton of emotional baggage that you don't need in your life. There are healthy people out there to have a REAL relationship with, not this pseudo-friendship he is offering you.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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What about his story seems weird to you? ( I don't mean to appear defensive, I am just curious...) I checked out where he was living, like I said I am a lawyer and I have some resources at my disposal...:-)
I am not disagreeing- this guy has major baggage. He is a fundamentally broken individual and his issues are not those of an alcoholic alone. His low self esteem, depression and the fact he didn't get married until he was in his late 40's were HUGE red flags I ignored. I should have run away screaming. I know better now.
I am not disagreeing- this guy has major baggage. He is a fundamentally broken individual and his issues are not those of an alcoholic alone. His low self esteem, depression and the fact he didn't get married until he was in his late 40's were HUGE red flags I ignored. I should have run away screaming. I know better now.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
It just doesn't ring true, and as I said, it's hard to put my finger on what it is. I wish I could. And, as I said, maybe I am completely out in left field. And I'm not usually an alarmist--I've seen a lot of abusive conduct, a lot of strange behavior, but it's abusive and strange in a familiar way, if you get my drift. There are certain things you expect to see or don't expect to see among alcoholics, including ones who are in recovery. This just feels very "off". It almost looks as if he is someone who has no idea how a person who is living in a sober living house might act, but he is trying to play that role.
If, indeed, he is as damaged as he says he is, I wouldn't expect him to go around disclosing it, especially to someone he has not gotten to know intimately.
Incidentally, I'm a lawyer, too, and I still got sucked into relationships that were bad for me. JD= Just Duped
If, indeed, he is as damaged as he says he is, I wouldn't expect him to go around disclosing it, especially to someone he has not gotten to know intimately.
Incidentally, I'm a lawyer, too, and I still got sucked into relationships that were bad for me. JD= Just Duped
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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I just don't know.....nor is it that important in the grand scheme of things, except that the thought he could have been a complete ass clown is too painful for me right now.... I would rather just believe that he really liked me but that his recovery must come first so we will never talk again if you know what I mean.... I care about him so that story "works for me ...." ( that old denial?)
If he was a con artist he was damn good..... he knew all about the AA Steps and talked to me about them many times. We talked about his struggle with the 4th step and his relationship with his sponsor. He described his time in Rehab, and what his triggers were for his binges. He knew the names of local recovery fellowships and claimed to attend them, on more than one occasion he looked up the time and location of the nearest meetings when we were together and then left promptly to attend ( I saw the app on his phone....)
Again... all that's too painful for me to think about right now.
If he was a con artist he was damn good..... he knew all about the AA Steps and talked to me about them many times. We talked about his struggle with the 4th step and his relationship with his sponsor. He described his time in Rehab, and what his triggers were for his binges. He knew the names of local recovery fellowships and claimed to attend them, on more than one occasion he looked up the time and location of the nearest meetings when we were together and then left promptly to attend ( I saw the app on his phone....)
Again... all that's too painful for me to think about right now.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Not to say he hasn't been to AA, heck, as I said, maybe he does live in a sober living house. Maybe everything he said was true. Maybe it's just that I've seen so many cases (I was a DV prosecutor for many years) where statements like the ones he was making were used as tools of manipulation. Sad tales reeking (just a bit too much) of emotional vulnerability, making the victim feel she was special enough to confide in.
People who are REALLY damaged in that way tend to go to great lengths to hide it, they don't spill it as soon as they meet someone.
I think you're better off meeting someone without all that stuff to deal with.
People who are REALLY damaged in that way tend to go to great lengths to hide it, they don't spill it as soon as they meet someone.
I think you're better off meeting someone without all that stuff to deal with.
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