searching4mysel

In joint counseling today I told my AH that I thought we had reached the end of the usefulness of joint counseling without some individual counseling to to address his substance abuse (alcohol and marijuana and pills when he can get them, that I'm aware of) to compliment the joint counseling. Tonight he asked for clarification of "what I was requiring." I said I was unwilling to continue our relationship under it's current framework and that I was not "requiring" anything but that I had to protect myself and my children from what I considered to be a problem with addiction. He said he didn't have a problem, lots of people drink the amount he drinks, he didn't see how there was any "mindset" that accompanied addiction, blah blah blah but that he would go and see our counselor individually for a few weeks to see what she could do. Then he went and poured a beer.

Trying to sort out what's mine and what's his is really, really a mess. I have a long way to go.

LaTeeDa

Sometimes I believe the addiction gets too much credit. As in, if only they would stop using, then we could work things out. But, what if it's just that we are incompatible. We hold different values, want different things out of life? What if the addiction is just something we can place the blame on because it's too difficult to face the truth of having picked the wrong person to devote our lives to? This is something I have struggled with, and still wonder about.

L

searching4mysel

That is a good question I don't know the answer to. Our entire marriage has included substance abuse so I have no basis on which to judge how it might be without it.

Tuffgirl

What I do know is there is no possibility of working anything out as long as someone is still using and emotionally unavailable.

But in my case, uncovering the person underneath the addiction created so much incompatibility that I often wonder who was that guy in the beginning? He was my perfect man, until I realized that is exactly the role he played on purpose (but not consciously). He fed off what I wanted and mirrored it back to me, until I threatened his addiction. By the time he got sober, we were at such odds, there was no recovering our relationship.

All you can do is continue to work on you. He'll either meet you halfway or he won't. But that isn't anything you can control.

MeetJohnDoe

Addiction is selfish. If he doesn't get how self-centered he is, you should leave. You deserve better. We can't be another's savior. You deserve to be in a nurturing, mutually beneficial relationship.

searching4mysel

Gosh, I feel this is so true in my situation. Sometimes I feel he is parroting what he thinks I am asking for just to be able to check the box that meets my "requirements" so he can get whatever it is that he wants in return. It feels very fake and empty and I feel that I can't trust anything he does.

We've been to the point of separation several times over the past year and I've backed off at the last minute. I guess I am still getting something out of this madness. I can't quite believe that I am worth more, that it's not all in my head, that he isn't as fine as he insists that he is.

I don't believe what I see, hear or feel in my heart. I don't trust myself.

inpieces314

Even in addiction, people change, because it's progressive.

That's how we were. I knew he was an alcoholic when we got together. When he decided to stop going to work, being responsible, paying bills, etc. that is when things changed.

Maybe that's me. I know I changed too.

The not trusting thing, I know how that is. Go with your first instinct and don't look back. Maybe he isn't taking you seriously because he never had to before. And just because you are separating does not mean you have to get a divorce. Maybe it will be his bottom. Maybe it will force him to see that he isn't as fine as he thinks.

Just because he is the one with the addiction does not mean you are the one who has to live with it, whether he admits that he is addicted or not. It's hard for you to deal with, but it will be even harder for him to deal with.

You do what you have to do, and if he wants to do the right thing, you can be sure you will be the first to know.

Recovering2

It's what we learn in addictive relationships....Don't Trust, Don't Talk, Don't Feel. That works for the A, then they can continue to manipulate and keep us from getting real help. We have to learn to talk to others (ie AlAnon), to allow and respect our feelings, and to trust our own judgement. Most of us no longer trust ourselves to make the right decisions. Always go with your gut, it won't lie to you.....

searching4mysel

My therapist of 18 months tells me the same thing. Trust my instinct.

My instincts say one thing, my fear says something else. I really want to stop being afraid and learn how to LIVE.

searching4mysel

We spoke this morning and I said that I wanted some time apart. I did not necessarily mean a full legal separation- which we have gotten to the point of twice over the last year -but some time and space apart. Could we discuss what that might look like? He stopped me and said last night was it for him. He was done drinking and going to make an appointment with our counselor for individual sessions. I said that I hoped that was true, for his sake, but that I still needed some time and space apart. We are going to think about what that means to each of us and regroup. I feel good about my end of the conversation. He really didn't say much once his declaration of being done drinking didn't change what I needed and wanted.

LexieCat

I think that's smart, not to tie any separation into whether he does this or that.

It's pretty much what I did with my first husband (we had not yet married). I told him I hoped he would be able to address the alcohol problem, but that I needed space away from it, and from him, for a while--I think I said a couple of months or so.

During that interval he did, indeed, seriously dive into AA and 33 years later is still sober (without a slip). We got divorced for reasons having nothing to do with his alcoholism, and we are still great friends.

Not saying that will happen in your case, of course, but to the extent that the staying/leaving isn't tied to promises, but rather open-ended with an intention to revisit things later, I think it is helpful. Gives YOU a big breather.

dandylion

Dear Searching, continue to stick to your guns and do what you need to do for yourself.

Unless a person is true to themselves, there can never be true peace and serenity.

Your happiness is your responsibility---not his. Do what you have to do.

sincerely, dandylion

searching4mysel

Today has held lots of bargaining and manipulation attempts. He says "he can't afford to move out unless he takes a 15 month lease so we might as well get divorced, he feels rejected and that's been his issue with me all along so he doesn't know if he can have a trial separation without it leading to divorce, he doesn't understand the point of a trial separation if we aren't sure we're going to work things out." Very all or nothing, black & white thinking that I have always played my part in as well. I have kept consistent and said that I wasn't sure that we would work it out but I was sure that I needed time and space and that I understood if that wasn't what he wanted and would accept his choice either way.

LexieCat

Good for you for recognizing what is going on, AND for staying the course. Don't let it wear you down. You have thought this through already.

searching4mysel

Yesterday was a lot of back and forth about joint counseling and why bother and he needed some sort of guarantee or promise of what I would put into it or what we were going to get out of it. I kept repeating myself that I did not know what we were going to get out of it but that I thought it could help us as we navigated our separation and that I was going into the separation with the mindset of time and space. He says that he doesn't see the point- which I've said is his decision and that I would respect it either way. If he wants to head straight to divorce I will accept that but that doesn;t change my need for time and space. I feel like I did well with consistently and clearly stating my position and not letting what feels to me to be his boundary attacks sway me however I clearly have work to do about removing myself from conversations that are not going anywhere. I sometimes feel like that is just about every conversation with him.

He is going to individual counseling today and I'm glad for that.

searching4mysel

Wanted to update where I was at without making a new thread. He did go to individual counseling Tuesday with our joint counselor and came home saying he wasn't interested in any further individual counseling, didn't see the point of joint counseling if we were going to separate (even temporarily) and that he would start looking for an apartment. I said I hoped he would go with something with a short term lease so we left the option of reconciliation on the table and he was non-committal. He does not want to even consider working things out if we are going to separate at all. I think this is just manipulation and I'm not buying it. If he wants to head straight to divorce or make reconciliation more difficult by taking a long term lease that is up to him. This week he's drinking like normal and between that and the lack of interest in counseling I'm so grateful that I listened to my gut and didn't buy in to his pretty words when he said he was done drinking last Sunday. I'm feeling stronger and more sure every day. I'm scared financially and scared for my children and scared of missing my children but this is what is right for me. I feel like I have found my voice.