Watching Lance Armstrong
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: new moon road
Posts: 1,545
Watching Lance Armstrong
I watched the "60 minutes" interview about Lance Armstrong on Sunday night. I taped it. And since then I've watched it a few more times. I could not help thinking how like a drug addict he is, even though his substances were EPO (a steroid, I think) and testosterone and blood transfusions. But "doping" seems really accurate to describe not only what he did but who he seems to be: an addict.
One of the things that made me catch my breath was really the "idealized persona" he had constructed which hid his true nature. For years he seemed the most dedicated athlete and mentor and role model in the world. Self-discipline. Personal best. Commitment and follow-through.
Then he got cancer and he grafted a whole new idealized persona onto the one he was already wearing. He established a foundation. He publicly advocated for cancer survivors.
And then the truth started emerging. And as I listened to the story of what was really going on behind the scenes--how he bullied and viciously threatened other cyclists who would not agree to doping with him to win races, how he lied so convincingly about using illegal substances to win races, how he threatened not only other team members but also their loved ones, how he destroyed the careers of anyone who would not submit to his agenda.....he behaved just like a drug addict: driven, obsessed, grandiose, self-justifying, bullying, rationalizing, lying, and all behind this incredible public persona which made him look like such a hero.
It got to me in a particularly personal way because the drug addict I was involved with also wears an idealized persona. I think maybe-- because he is so smart, one of the savviest men I ever met-- that he has so carefully crafted it with the idea in mind that people will not ever suspect him if he is using. Like Lance Armstrong, he is a long-distance cyclist and is the picture of health and discipline (the fact is, one of his most important wins was when he was on dope, before he got clean). He sits on the board at his church. He volunteers for all the school functions. He attends Al-Anon. And he is a speaker on the recovery circuit. He looks so good.
But I know a different side of him. Just as others knew a different side of Lance Armstrong. And when I saw some clips of Lance talking with Oprah and heard him say that he looked up "cheater" in the dictionary and didn't really identify with the definition, I thought, "My God, the man is an addict."
I think for myself, one of the most mind-bending and crazy-making experiences of knowing people in active addiction is how good they look in public. How the front stage performance is so split from the back stage reality. And I think I was especially psychologically injured by my experience with a drug addict, because with alcoholics, the dark side is right there in front of you the first time they pass out on the kitchen floor. You can see the problem quite clearly and you know you are not crazy.
But drug addicts....well, you know what they say. If an alcoholic steals from you, he'll say he didn't take it. But if a drug addict steals from you, he'll say he didn't take it and then help you look for it. And that stealth is what made and continues to make me feel so ill sometimes. In therapy I carry into the room my psychic ball of yarn and the therapist helps me unravel my experience with a drug addict, strand by strand. And every now and then, I say to the therapist, "Are you sure? I can't believe it."
And there must be so many who crossed Lance Armstrong's path who now sit in therapy and say about him, "Are you sure? I can't believe it."
I am just wondering if others might share how their sense of reality was turned on its head by the mask the addict wore when he was actively using.
One of the things that made me catch my breath was really the "idealized persona" he had constructed which hid his true nature. For years he seemed the most dedicated athlete and mentor and role model in the world. Self-discipline. Personal best. Commitment and follow-through.
Then he got cancer and he grafted a whole new idealized persona onto the one he was already wearing. He established a foundation. He publicly advocated for cancer survivors.
And then the truth started emerging. And as I listened to the story of what was really going on behind the scenes--how he bullied and viciously threatened other cyclists who would not agree to doping with him to win races, how he lied so convincingly about using illegal substances to win races, how he threatened not only other team members but also their loved ones, how he destroyed the careers of anyone who would not submit to his agenda.....he behaved just like a drug addict: driven, obsessed, grandiose, self-justifying, bullying, rationalizing, lying, and all behind this incredible public persona which made him look like such a hero.
It got to me in a particularly personal way because the drug addict I was involved with also wears an idealized persona. I think maybe-- because he is so smart, one of the savviest men I ever met-- that he has so carefully crafted it with the idea in mind that people will not ever suspect him if he is using. Like Lance Armstrong, he is a long-distance cyclist and is the picture of health and discipline (the fact is, one of his most important wins was when he was on dope, before he got clean). He sits on the board at his church. He volunteers for all the school functions. He attends Al-Anon. And he is a speaker on the recovery circuit. He looks so good.
But I know a different side of him. Just as others knew a different side of Lance Armstrong. And when I saw some clips of Lance talking with Oprah and heard him say that he looked up "cheater" in the dictionary and didn't really identify with the definition, I thought, "My God, the man is an addict."
I think for myself, one of the most mind-bending and crazy-making experiences of knowing people in active addiction is how good they look in public. How the front stage performance is so split from the back stage reality. And I think I was especially psychologically injured by my experience with a drug addict, because with alcoholics, the dark side is right there in front of you the first time they pass out on the kitchen floor. You can see the problem quite clearly and you know you are not crazy.
But drug addicts....well, you know what they say. If an alcoholic steals from you, he'll say he didn't take it. But if a drug addict steals from you, he'll say he didn't take it and then help you look for it. And that stealth is what made and continues to make me feel so ill sometimes. In therapy I carry into the room my psychic ball of yarn and the therapist helps me unravel my experience with a drug addict, strand by strand. And every now and then, I say to the therapist, "Are you sure? I can't believe it."
And there must be so many who crossed Lance Armstrong's path who now sit in therapy and say about him, "Are you sure? I can't believe it."
I am just wondering if others might share how their sense of reality was turned on its head by the mask the addict wore when he was actively using.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,618
yes. for sure. Mine comes from a good family and is the grandson of the pastor. He is extremely accomplished at the piano and has won numerous awards and medals throughout his life for it. He even was given a trip to Europe to play and had his choice of the best colledges. He can sit and play any classical song you ask of him. He loves the theatre and old school musicians like Frank Sinatra. Would pick movies on movie night from that era. He is well educated and an "old soul" so to speak. kept his job. paid his bills. went to church. The golden boy. He maintained all of these things to enable himself to use, and would go to any lengths to "keep up the face"
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: PM me....
Posts: 468
After I watched the 2 Oprah episodes...I wrote this on my Facebook page:
Lance Armstrong....ugh....no remorse = narcissistic sociopath.
When asked what was lost...instead of self respect, trust etc. he said 75 Million $$
What a horrible example to our children.
Incidentally....this same description is applicable to the addict(s) in my life....minus the $75 mil
Lance Armstrong....ugh....no remorse = narcissistic sociopath.
When asked what was lost...instead of self respect, trust etc. he said 75 Million $$
What a horrible example to our children.
Incidentally....this same description is applicable to the addict(s) in my life....minus the $75 mil
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
He always gave me the creeps. I couldn't understand why people couldn't see it. On a few occasions, I voiced my opinion about him and people would be shocked and tell me all the "good" he has done.
I think he fits the definition of a sociopath to a T.
I think he fits the definition of a sociopath to a T.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 43
Originally Posted by EnglishGarden 
If an alcoholic steals from you, he'll say he didn't take it. But if a drug addict steals from you, he'll say he didn't take it and then help you look for it.
In my experience, my ABF will not only say he didn't take it and help me look for it, he'll detail how I lost the item because of the disappointments of my past, and that I am blaming him for losing it because my parents weren't there for me, but he forgives me because he loves me and is willing to overlook my flaws.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sunshine, Sea Breeze & Palm Trees
Posts: 282
my addict stole and borrowed money from me. When I said he couldnt borrow money anymore he said "I was raised to help others and lend friends money when they are in trouble because I love them and would want to help them." When I asked him to pay me back all of the money he owed me, he called me a cheap b*atch.
... And I thought there was something wrong with me for not wanting to lend him money and wanting my money back.
... And I thought there was something wrong with me for not wanting to lend him money and wanting my money back.
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 6,728
Just confirms that addicts can come from all walks of life, there are no exceptions.
As for Lance, I never cared for him, always thought that he was a shallow, self-centered ego maniac. The interview just reconfirmed my evaluation.
As for Lance, I never cared for him, always thought that he was a shallow, self-centered ego maniac. The interview just reconfirmed my evaluation.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,618
Originally Posted by oooopps
my addict stole and borrowed money from me. When I said he couldnt borrow money anymore he said "I was raised to help others and lend friends money when they are in trouble because I love them and would want to help them." When I asked him to pay me back all of the money he owed me, he called me a cheap b*atch.
... And I thought there was something wrong with me for not wanting to lend him money and wanting my money back.
... And I thought there was something wrong with me for not wanting to lend him money and wanting my money back.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,038
I just watched the Oprah-Lance interview for the first time today. It exhausted me. I felt like it was stbxah. The straight nose, beady eyes, thin lips. He is telling the truth in a way that feels scripted, because this is a man that doesn't know the truth from his soul. He has to be told what to say. And he's in a fury in acknowledging the truth, which goes against his inclination towards defiance and belief that he is king of the universe and don't anyone dare tell him anything.
He did what stbx does so well. 'When my territory is threatened, I go on the attack'. He'll destroy anyone who messes with him and his public image. The public image is crafted to protect him from others. It's his fort, his castle. If anyone tells the truth and dares to question him, he shoots down his poison arrows.
He is the Wizard of Oz. A tiny speck of a man hiding behind the facade of a great leader.
All those people who got hurt along the way. Because they were honest.
That's me. I am the only one to have dared. My oldest is next in line. But everyone of his friends, our community, his colleagues, our family doctor, the neighbors, his family - he has them all attacking and then isolating me, and subsequently, the children.
Like EnglishGarden's ex, my ex is very successful, is an accomplished athlete, is highly regarded by the community and those in his field, a real golden boy.
I couldn't handle watching the interview when it first appeared.
I think I'll refer to stbx as 'Lance' from now on.
He did what stbx does so well. 'When my territory is threatened, I go on the attack'. He'll destroy anyone who messes with him and his public image. The public image is crafted to protect him from others. It's his fort, his castle. If anyone tells the truth and dares to question him, he shoots down his poison arrows.
He is the Wizard of Oz. A tiny speck of a man hiding behind the facade of a great leader.
All those people who got hurt along the way. Because they were honest.
That's me. I am the only one to have dared. My oldest is next in line. But everyone of his friends, our community, his colleagues, our family doctor, the neighbors, his family - he has them all attacking and then isolating me, and subsequently, the children.
Like EnglishGarden's ex, my ex is very successful, is an accomplished athlete, is highly regarded by the community and those in his field, a real golden boy.
I couldn't handle watching the interview when it first appeared.
I think I'll refer to stbx as 'Lance' from now on.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
