Please remind me of what I told you about why I left my AH

Old 01-11-2013, 05:13 PM
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Please remind me of what I told you about why I left my AH

This is a very hard time. I have to complete the legal questions that my AH's attorney sent me about the divorce. They require extremely specific details about the proving the fault charges I made against AH for alcoholism, extreme cruelty, damage to my emotional and physical health.

My attorney wants me to quote from the many outrageous e-mails I've gotten from my AH in the past six months. I had to find them in the computer and read all of them. After spending time writing the answers to those awful questions. In some of the e-mails, AH says he did what I charged him with in the fault grounds. Drinking to excess, porn, rage. I can prove what I charged him with.

But I am also seeing the glimmers of who he used to be, the humor I loved, the man I loved. And I am doubting myself. Did I just go hysterical about the porn and his drinking? Did anything really bad really ever happen to me, or I am I just nuts? It seems like he really wanted me back, and when I kept pushing him away, that made him angry and he said worse things.

I know that the facts are there. I know that his 79 million divorce settlement spreadsheets are punitive and filled with false numbers and stacked in his favor.

But my feelings are just out of it tonight. I haven't had this hard a time for weeks and weeks.

Am I just emotionally unstable and mispercieved all that happened between us? In the e-mails, as I reread them, he reached out to me a number of times. He wanted me back. I just blew over that. I was so afraid, I was so hyper afraid.

I can't get this sorted out in my head right now.

Did I do the right thing? Am I doing the right thing now? My kids hate him for how he treated me and them. Yes, he did those things.

But tonight it seems very lonely. Too stuck in these tortuous legal documents. Too far away from anything healthy, any thing looking forward. I keep praying.

What I've written about the fault accusations about what he did is true. He did those things. But it seems so cruel to have written them out. It seems so cruel to make him read them.

What if he can't bear it? What if he kills himself? What if he comes after me in a rage? What if I have lost something that could have worked?

I am so emotionally out of control right now.

Guess I'll go watch a commanding movie, take an extra anti-depressant, eat a piece of fudge cake, go to bed. I don't seem to have any other resources to draw upon right now.

Maybe having to write all this, which is really the preparation for the divorce trial if he doesn't get reasonable and send in his financial data and negotiate a fair settlement in the next month. Maybe having to write all of this just highlights my own flaws as much as it does his. I seem to have lost the ability to compute anything emotional tonight. Tears are running down my cheeks.

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Old 01-11-2013, 05:46 PM
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HALT. Hungry/hurt Angry Lonely Tired? Are you feeling any of these things? Take care of these and then come back to the paperwork when you're less emotionally exhausted.

Trust yourself. He is all the things you said: funny, charming, abusive, manipulative, and selfish. Among other things I'm sure.

So many hugs tonight.
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Old 01-11-2013, 05:57 PM
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Hi, Shooting Star,

It's called codependency. We all get it. I get it from time to time, especially at pivotal points, like you're experiencing now. There's that panic that still sets in.... could it be fixed? Am I exaggerating? Will he be totally lost?

I can't say that for you, but you probably can. I recently opened the door to my AXF because I was feeling panicky and Lonely (love HALT!!!) What I discovered is that despite his many desperate texts, calls, emails of undying love and remorse, now that I've resumed contact, he doesn't make any more effort than he ever did.

He still says "I'll call you later", and guess what? No call. No plan for the future, no recovery for him.

But it's really ok for me. Because now I see that if I keep pursuing him down this well worn path, I'll be VOLUNTEERING for misery. It has actually helped me to see him more clearly.

I'm sorry you feel so sad, stressed, and upset. I hope it passes and your way forward is clear.

Big hugs!
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:12 PM
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There have been many times in my life when I have been overwhelmed by the task at hand. When I calmed down and made an attack plan, I both overcame my fear and accomplished the deed.

He is a manipulater, he knows how to push your buttons, he knows all your weak spots and will, when it serves his purpose, use them to his advantage. In addition, we codies seem to play the "what if" and self imposed "guilt"game, and, we look for every little glimmer of hope, whether it is real or precieved by us.

Me, I would trust your childrens evaluation of the situation, they are thinking with their heads, not their hearts. As I see it, the bottom line is... do you want a good relationship with them or a lousy relationship with your husband. It is your choice, your life.

I am sorry that you continue to struggle, have you considered therapy? Sometimes, in order to overcome our emotional road blocks we need professional help.

Get some rest, tomorrow is a new day, perhaps your spirit will be renewed and you can move forward, in peace.
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:22 PM
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Sending mass love your way. I find putting out the truth about the bad things makes them concrete. I believe doing this also helps release the secretiveness that causes so much stress. Your stbx knows what he has done..you know..and unfortunately your lawyers need to know as well (imo). Thinking of you.
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:23 PM
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My loved one in the midst of his disease was not able to see those things the same way.

He wrote them, he meant them for you....that was what he did.

To me this is just a consequence.

Don't get me wrong I have been there feeling bad. I am finally starting to realize though that when I did that I took the most important person out of the equation...me.
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:43 PM
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My prayers are with you tonight Shootingstar - I pray God comforts you and gives you peace.

You deserved to be loved, respected, and cherished! He was not capable of those things, not because of who you are but because of who he is.

Kiss your little doggy and feel blessed to be out of the dysfunction and sickness. Many wish we had your strength and courage.
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Old 01-11-2013, 07:39 PM
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You were with him such a long long time, ShootingStar. How could you not spend at minimum a year grieving, maybe two, perhaps three, because it is for you an experience of death. When we build a life with someone and it is dissolved, whether through slow decay and or the sudden blow of separation, we lose our foundation, our very roots. This is the dark night of the soul and it is very hard to endure. Our culture does not give it the respect and acceptance it is due. Our culture says we can think our way into a happier outlook, we can in short time meditate away the raw pain in the heart. But anyone who has had his or her entire foundation crumble into dust, knows that this is not so. That people who love the most are those who grieve the hardest and the longest, and their experience of death--of a person or a marriage or a beloved pet--is extreme.

I was watching the first in the Lord of the Rings movies recently and I was moved so much more by it than when I first saw it, for I understood it so much better as a result of my own life experience. The darkness which takes men's souls, the consequences of that for the home, the family, the hearts of those who once loved those men. When the dark Ring-Wraiths on black horses were so obsessed in hunting for the ring of power, I was reminded of what happens to human beings who are consumed by darker forces and who lose their kindness, their integrity, their ability to love. The creatures riding the horses were once men, and they took something they could not control--without a thought--and it devoured them.

And people who have loved with all their hearts an alcoholic or drug addict, especially those who knew the individual before the disease spread through him like ink on a napkin....people like you, who once knew the person in better times, and sees now and then a fleeting moment of that person's old self, no one knows how you suffer at this time. No one knows how much you have lost.

There must have been true light in him in the early days that you experienced, or you would have run away. And now, all these years later, twenty years ago can seem like the present, because that is how our memories are. We bury the past, but it still lives in us. And in you is the experience of being loved by him in better days.

He is not the same. He looks the same. And he has the same smile and the same wit and the ability to connect with you in the familiar intimate ways long-married people do.

But we all here can tell you that a man with an advanced alcohol and sex addiction who is entrenched in continuing his life that way is a man who will destroy you. He has hurt you and will continue so. Because he has, in his own way, become one of those Ring-Wraiths, seeking power and pleasure which was not his to own, and cannot contain, and should never have been touched.

It is good you reach out here on nights like these. Tonight is a New Moon. It is a time of seeding, of planting a fresh new garden. Perhaps in the morning, you can find some symbolic way to let Life know you still want to survive, if not for yourself, for your children who still need you. And that you are willing to learn how.

Many blessings and much comfort to you this evening.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:17 PM
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Thank you all, ever so much.

Thank you, English Garden, for your wisdom and compassion. Thank you all for being here.

It is better to feel the pain and release it than to swallow it. Sometimes it is just so clear that it is over, that all is gone, and then the pain is so searing that I want it back, good, bad, indifferent, I just want it back. As if that would make the pain stop.

Tomorrow will come, I will sleep till then and wake and hope for better.


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Old 01-11-2013, 08:48 PM
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ShootingStar1,

I feel your pain, and I'm so sorry you are going through this. Trust in yourself, you are stronger than you know!

I completely understand though seeing those "glimmers" of what he used to be. It can really cast doubt upon our innermost feelings, makes us question and minimize our true and undeniable pain.

I'm going through a divorce, and have gone NC with AH, except for emails relating to home affairs. I don't take his calls, and return his voicemails with an email. Dealing with him during the divorce became so unsettling that I couldn't stand talking to him. At times though, I see the man I fell in love with and it breaks my heart all over again. One day, he was really nice to me (via email) and didn't argue with me or anything. Out of nowhere later that evening, I burst into tears and just sobbed and bawled for hours. He can be really kind, or funny and makes me laugh like no one else, and I momentarily forget that he was an absolute monster to me. But then I always remember he was a monster to me.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mmk11 View Post
ShootingStar1,

I feel your pain, and I'm so sorry you are going through this. Trust in yourself, you are stronger than you know!

I completely understand though seeing those "glimmers" of what he used to be. It can really cast doubt upon our innermost feelings, makes us question and minimize our true and undeniable pain.

I'm going through a divorce, and have gone NC with AH, except for emails relating to home affairs. I don't take his calls, and return his voicemails with an email. Dealing with him during the divorce became so unsettling that I couldn't stand talking to him. At times though, I see the man I fell in love with and it breaks my heart all over again. One day, he was really nice to me (via email) and didn't argue with me or anything. Out of nowhere later that evening, I burst into tears and just sobbed and bawled for hours. He can be really kind, or funny and makes me laugh like no one else, and I momentarily forget that he was an absolute monster to me. But then I always remember he was a monster to me.
Wow! I could have wriiten this exact post!!
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:12 AM
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Sometimes the fantasy creeps back in. Sometimes I think I could have made it work, notice, I could have made it work. Sometimes I think , he is limited, I should just have gone along.

About three months ago he left me 16 messages on my cell phone one night, my phone is always off when I go to bed. I recorded them on my compurter, the copied them on a cd. I emailed a copy of the file to him. When I feel guilty, or ashamed, or bad, or feel like I could have stayed, I think about listening to that cd. That stops me in my tracks. Because I do not want to hear the voice of the monster my xabf was to me 40 percent of the time.

I was tortured, put down, disrepected, demonized, it was all my fault, gaslighted, stupid, I should dress sexier, wear my hair and make up differently, didn't eat enough, didn't raise my puppy right, didn't do enough, etc etc etc, it has taken me a year or more to finally heal from the constant bashing of an alcoholic. I can not put myself in the line of fire again. I'm worth so much more and so are you.
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:28 AM
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I wish I could tell you that somehow, you could keep the good parts without have to keep the bad...but you can't.

The funny, warm person, and the active alcoholic, raging, verbally abusive, porn using, domineering and controlling man are one in the same. You can't have one without the other. Only you can decide if warm and funny are worth all the rest.

Sending you hugs and prayers for some peace!
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:46 AM
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Originally Posted by hydrogirl View Post
I wish I could tell you that somehow, you could keep the good parts without have to keep the bad...but you can't.

The funny, warm person, and the active alcoholic, raging, verbally abusive, porn using, domineering and controlling man are one in the same. You can't have one without the other. Only you can decide if warm and funny are worth all the rest.

Sending you hugs and prayers for some peace!

Very well said.

Your grief has far outweighed your joy in this relationship.

Only you know if you can live with this grief for your lifetime.

Trust yourself. Do the right thing for you. Your children see what

it is doing to you, and that matters to them.

Hang in there. It is very normal to have those sad, self-doubt moments sometimes in divorcing.

Just ask yourself 'Was I really happy? Did I feel really loved? Was he my true friend?'

Be strong. Love yourself.

best wishes to you,
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:26 AM
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I think this guy knows exactly what he's doing when he sends the "I really want you back" texts and emails peppered in with abusive ones. It's all manipulation, just different flavors. The end game is to get your emotions all confused like a ball of string. If he was all mean and abusive sending a single message all the time, you'd at least have emotional clarity in one direction, but it's the contradictions that a manipulator uses to really get you doubting yourself and your feelings and your opinion of him. It's crazy making, literally.
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Katiekate View Post
Sometimes the fantasy creeps back in. Sometimes I think I could have made it work, notice, I could have made it work. Sometimes I think , he is limited, I should just have gone along.

I was tortured, put down, disrepected, demonized, it was all my fault, gaslighted, stupid, I should dress sexier, wear my hair and make up differently, didn't eat enough, didn't raise my puppy right, didn't do enough, etc etc etc, it has taken me a year or more to finally heal from the constant bashing of an alcoholic. I can not put myself in the line of fire again. I'm worth so much more and so are you.
This sounds so much like my experience. 6 months later I am still trying to recover from the constant anger, criticism and insults.

I'm reading "Love Isn't Supposed to Hurt" by Christi Paul and it's been helpful.

God did not put us here to be abused. I hope you have a great weekend!
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:00 AM
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When i got divorced over 15 years ago, I too was a basket case, raw emotion, crying, second guessing myself, on and on.......

My very wise (much older) law professor brother simply said. "Kid, divorce is a legal matter, this is business, what you have to do is cut the emotion, and deal with the facts, the court is only interested in facts"

Well, i was so pissed off at his insensitivity, that only seemed to make matters worse, well I had a few months before we had a court date, and I had time to reflect on what he was saying, and as awful as it was, he was correct. This was strictly a business transaction, regardless of all the raw emotion, this was really going to happen. There was no turning back. (for me) I needed to stand tall and face my today, in doing so, it allowed me a chance of a healthy tomorrow.

I am so sorry for your pain, and I understand how you are feeling. Just want you to know that I care, and as awful as today is, just know a new growth is truly on the horizon. hang in there, friend.
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:11 PM
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This has been 24 hours of revelations and insights. Painful. Necessary. Important. Humbling.

" If he was all mean and abusive sending a single message all the time, you'd at least have emotional clarity in one direction, but it's the contradictions that a manipulator uses to really get you doubting yourself and your feelings and your opinion of him. It's crazy making, literally. "

Yes, h00p, you've said something so important here. It makes me realize that if he really wanted me back, he would treat me respectfully in this divorce process, hoping that if I saw him behave well and grow beyond his prior abuse, that that would be his best hope of getting me to come back. This is just more harassment, more abuse.

English Garden, your metaphor about the dark Ring-Wraiths in the Lord of the Ring is both shocking and all too true. I think I will watch that movie again.

Now I am reading a book about healing from sexual abuse, and I realize that beyond the porn, he demanded what he wanted, and because I loved him, I complied, and then he berated me viciously for his failures. I didn't understand until tonight that that is the definition of sexual abuse. Feeling obligated for any reason, even love, to do something that you don't want to do. That has shocked me, like a 1000 watt light turned on suddenly in the darkness of night. I didn't understand.

I think acknowledging this is important, is key to coming to terms with the worst of the dominance and submission. As painful as that is, I feel more grounded, freer now with that realization. Sometimes when you put a new piece of the puzzle in, lots more of the pattern comes into focus.

How could there be any more layers to this? Have I finally come to the bottom? It must be the bottom. What else could be left after this.

I finished all the work I could stand to do to answer those mandatory and mean spirited questions from his lawyer. I sent my draft back to my lawyer and said I cannot do anymore. It is too painful. Work with what you have, it is enough. And my lawyer is compassionate and a good lawyer, and he will do that. I have been struggling with depression. Seeing those images of cemeteries again. I have met my limit and I recognize it.

So I've drawn a line in the sand about what I can handle and what I cannot and I will protect myself now. Don't worry. I won't falter; I see the warning signs these days, and I know what I need to do and I do it. I have the support I need, and I will use it. This last piece that I wrote about here in this post - this may be the keystone. I may now know all I need to know.

It is time to heal. Time to let go of the last pieces. Time to mourn. Time to rest. Time then to grow. Time to finally be free. Time to start my new life here in my new town. Maybe, in a bit, time finally to go into my studio, nurture the creative part of me, let the new emerge.

I am not going to do anything ever again with him. I am not going to sell the house together with him. He will have to buy me out and sell it himself, or I will have the Judge name a real estate Conservator to sell it. There is nothing anywhere worth salvaging. I took what I need, I have what I need, I can be the person I need me to be. In a bit. Soon. I am ready to turn the divorce over to my lawyer now. I am ready to mourn and move on. I hope I can sustain this understanding.

I am ready to turn my life over to my Higher Power, to God.

In the darkness of winter,
Where night comes early
And dawn comes late,
My paperwhites and rose colored amaryllis
Are coming into bloom.

ShootingStar1
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:21 PM
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Wow. Such a powerful post ShootingStar. You are so strong. I am sending my love and support to you. You are very much in my thoughts tonight and you have given me much to think about as I reflect on my journey.
Hugs,
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:16 AM
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Sending more hugs your way. You are a strong person, you will come out of it even better than you were before.

God's Peace be with you.

C-OH Dad
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