I am married to an adult child of an alcoholic. Please help.
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Join Date: Jan 2013
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I am married to an adult child of an alcoholic. Please help.
My husband and I have been together for nearly 5 years, married for 2. I have a 9 year old daughter from a previous relationship, and we have a 1 year old daughter together.
I have known since I met my husband that his father, when living, was an alcoholic. I always looked out for his drinking, but I never knew all the other problems that could come with that background.
Although his father was an alcoholic, his mother was a rock, and she separated from his father when he was in mid-childhood, because she couldn't tolerate the drinking anymore. My husband and his siblings continued to have a relationship with their dad. My husband doesn't talk negatively about his father much. He moved across country when his father was dying of cancer to care for him. During that time, as best I can piece together, my husband began using marijuana to cope with his feelings. That is a whole other story.
Anyway, the few negative stories that my husband is willing to share are things like his father driving while drinking down the interstate, breaking traffic laws, passing people in the median, and the kids being terrified. But my husband always laughs at these stories. He always says that his dad was not violent, just unpredictable. The pain of his loss, though his father died 10 years ago, seems so fresh that it seems he cannot face any of the negative things about his father.
If you asked my husband, his father was a great guy who might have drank too much.
My husband is one of these people that comes across as being incredibly laid back, easy going, loving. He's a great husband most of the time, and he loves our baby so much, coddles her, and can't get enough of her.
I knew he had anger problems a few years ago when he had an outburst toward my older daughter. At the time she was maybe 7, and she was giving me a tantrum. He went in to the room and started yelling and said something like, "you better be glad I don't knock you in the head!"
The other time that really stood out was shortly after we got married, we went out with friends, and he drank an obscene amount. The bar had a cooler of beer on the wall, and my husband thought it would be funny to steal one out. When he got kicked out of the bar, he went outside and sulked. I had been chatting with friends when it happened. When I found out, I went outside to check on him, and he completely lost his mind. Yelling, cussing, totally crazy-acting, telling me to take him the f home, etc. On the way home, I was so scared, just driving calmly, hoping not to get pulled over, because I myself had been drinking, though lightly. We are driving, and he is banging on my car windows, screaming and cussing. I just kept thinking, "Get home, get away. Get home, get away." We got home, and I parked the car. He was beating on the car, and I wouldn't get out. He came around and was in my face, and was telling me to get out. I think he touched me but he didn't hit me; I have child abuse PTSD issues and honestly can't remember. I told him I was leaving and would be home later. He started crying, begging, etc. I had to get out. I came home later and slept in another room. The next day, he said, "I understand if you want to bail." I thought long and hard and decided not to leave. I haven't seen that behavior again.
The current issue is that I'm seeing his anger just under the surface. Rather than blowing up and hitting something or communicating or fighting, he's letting it bubble out through cutting words, threatening looks, being forceful with the kids, or mean to the pets.
This week, got frustrated and told the baby, "I'm going to throw this bottle at your face!" But he said it in a calm voice. Then he saw the look of horror on my face, and he kept saying it over and over in a joking voice.
I should disclose that I was abused as a child in numerous ways, by both my father and a stepfather. I have worked HARD on healing, including years of therapy. But I can still be transported back 20 years by this type of behavior. Someone please help me understand what is going on, what I should do and whether it will ever stop. Will he hurt my children? Physically? Emotionally?
I have known since I met my husband that his father, when living, was an alcoholic. I always looked out for his drinking, but I never knew all the other problems that could come with that background.
Although his father was an alcoholic, his mother was a rock, and she separated from his father when he was in mid-childhood, because she couldn't tolerate the drinking anymore. My husband and his siblings continued to have a relationship with their dad. My husband doesn't talk negatively about his father much. He moved across country when his father was dying of cancer to care for him. During that time, as best I can piece together, my husband began using marijuana to cope with his feelings. That is a whole other story.
Anyway, the few negative stories that my husband is willing to share are things like his father driving while drinking down the interstate, breaking traffic laws, passing people in the median, and the kids being terrified. But my husband always laughs at these stories. He always says that his dad was not violent, just unpredictable. The pain of his loss, though his father died 10 years ago, seems so fresh that it seems he cannot face any of the negative things about his father.
If you asked my husband, his father was a great guy who might have drank too much.
My husband is one of these people that comes across as being incredibly laid back, easy going, loving. He's a great husband most of the time, and he loves our baby so much, coddles her, and can't get enough of her.
I knew he had anger problems a few years ago when he had an outburst toward my older daughter. At the time she was maybe 7, and she was giving me a tantrum. He went in to the room and started yelling and said something like, "you better be glad I don't knock you in the head!"
The other time that really stood out was shortly after we got married, we went out with friends, and he drank an obscene amount. The bar had a cooler of beer on the wall, and my husband thought it would be funny to steal one out. When he got kicked out of the bar, he went outside and sulked. I had been chatting with friends when it happened. When I found out, I went outside to check on him, and he completely lost his mind. Yelling, cussing, totally crazy-acting, telling me to take him the f home, etc. On the way home, I was so scared, just driving calmly, hoping not to get pulled over, because I myself had been drinking, though lightly. We are driving, and he is banging on my car windows, screaming and cussing. I just kept thinking, "Get home, get away. Get home, get away." We got home, and I parked the car. He was beating on the car, and I wouldn't get out. He came around and was in my face, and was telling me to get out. I think he touched me but he didn't hit me; I have child abuse PTSD issues and honestly can't remember. I told him I was leaving and would be home later. He started crying, begging, etc. I had to get out. I came home later and slept in another room. The next day, he said, "I understand if you want to bail." I thought long and hard and decided not to leave. I haven't seen that behavior again.
The current issue is that I'm seeing his anger just under the surface. Rather than blowing up and hitting something or communicating or fighting, he's letting it bubble out through cutting words, threatening looks, being forceful with the kids, or mean to the pets.
This week, got frustrated and told the baby, "I'm going to throw this bottle at your face!" But he said it in a calm voice. Then he saw the look of horror on my face, and he kept saying it over and over in a joking voice.
I should disclose that I was abused as a child in numerous ways, by both my father and a stepfather. I have worked HARD on healing, including years of therapy. But I can still be transported back 20 years by this type of behavior. Someone please help me understand what is going on, what I should do and whether it will ever stop. Will he hurt my children? Physically? Emotionally?
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 6,728
Any toxic enviornment will have an adverse effect on your children. Children who live in a verbally and/or physically home will have a multitude of issues in adulthood. Children carry their childhood into adulthood. Look at your husband, he is a product of his childhood, it is all there, right in front of you, red flags are waving wildly. Please don't ignore them, he is a loose cannon and anything is possible.
Have you read Codependent No More by Melodie Beattie? I would also suggest that you read all the stickeys at the top of the Family & Friends sections and cynical one's blogs, knowledge is power.
I am the product of an abusive alcoholic mother and her abusive men. I am 65 and still bear the scars today, I lived the nightmare, as did my younger brother. We often hid in the closet, and I prayed that someone would come and rescue us...no one ever did.
You are your childrens voice, their future, do what is best for them.
Have you read Codependent No More by Melodie Beattie? I would also suggest that you read all the stickeys at the top of the Family & Friends sections and cynical one's blogs, knowledge is power.
I am the product of an abusive alcoholic mother and her abusive men. I am 65 and still bear the scars today, I lived the nightmare, as did my younger brother. We often hid in the closet, and I prayed that someone would come and rescue us...no one ever did.
You are your childrens voice, their future, do what is best for them.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 499
I'm so sorry you find yourself in this position. Your husband is abusive. He needs help. Without him deciding to get help for his anger his behavior will continue to escalate. You can't make him get help, but you can protect yourself, your children, and your pets.
My father was abusive and it had an enormous effect on me growing up. I spent most of my life letting people treat me like garbage because I thought that's what love looked like. My mother never did anything to stop him. Your children need someone in their corner, someone willing to do the right thing to protect them.
I also second the recommendation to read Codependent No More by Melody Beattie - the abuse you suffered has had a lasting effect on you that frequently presents itself as codependency.
Like DollyDo I always waited and wished for someone to come and rescue me, but nobody ever came. Your children might not know that they have someone in their corner, actions speak much louder than words.
My father was abusive and it had an enormous effect on me growing up. I spent most of my life letting people treat me like garbage because I thought that's what love looked like. My mother never did anything to stop him. Your children need someone in their corner, someone willing to do the right thing to protect them.
I also second the recommendation to read Codependent No More by Melody Beattie - the abuse you suffered has had a lasting effect on you that frequently presents itself as codependency.
Like DollyDo I always waited and wished for someone to come and rescue me, but nobody ever came. Your children might not know that they have someone in their corner, actions speak much louder than words.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4
Yesterday, my husband reached out to me before I initiated a conversation. He basically said, "I'm acting like a child. I have been temperamental and frustrated. I'm sorry. I'm selfish. I'm worried about work, money, x, y, and z."
It took me a while to put my words together, but when I responded, I basically said that I am very worried about our marriage. I told him that work, money, etc. won't be the reason our marriage fails; if it fails, it will be due to un-resolved issues and his anger problem. Without diagnosing him, I said, "I believe you struggle because of things you experienced when you were a child."
He opened up and we talked about his father, his childhood in general. He said his father was never an angry drunk, just really talkative. He said the thing that bothers him most from his childhood is being left alone a lot, after his parents divorced and his mom started working. He said he had temper problems when he was a kid, as soon as his parents divorced.
As we were talking, I reminded him of my own childhood. He said, "I know you've always said you wouldn't live like that again."
We both agreed that I will not stay in the marriage if it hurts the girls.
I suggested that we come up with some coping strategies to help us both remain calm when things get stressful. Some of our most stressful times can be during the week when we are both working, coming home to cook, care for the girls, homework, bedtimes, etc. We talked about making dinners for the week on the weekend, so no one has to cook after a commute. We used to do that, and it was helpful. We talked about going back to church for support and positive male role models. My husband used to be a part of a local church and enjoyed it.
I asked that we set ground rules for things that we/he will never do again. I told him that his joking about violence toward the children is terrifying to me, and I need him to not do it ever. He was very embarrassed about it, and he agreed. He said that there are times when he just needs to walk away from a frustrating situation. We agreed that if he is with the baby, he will say to me, "Here, take her."
Thank you everyone for your responses. More than anything, I am trying to understand my husband.
I can appreciate that from the outside in, it seems like I set myself up for this. But that is not the case. I had a lot of honest counsel before I married my husband, and I have made every decision, baby and all, with deep conviction. I find the "Let me get this straight" comment to be unhelpful. Yes, I knew my husband had issues, as he did me. I honestly haven't met anyone without them. Before we married, he had never lashed out. When that incident occurred, it completely blindsided me and him both. He immediately the next day called his siblings and mom and told them about his behavior. And we haven't been out drinking like that since.
I'm sorry if that comes off as defensive. I'm not ready to leave my marriage. That's not why I came to this board.
I have a lot of my own issues, but I know that I have the tools to deal with them, be a loving, effective mother, and have a career. I'm hoping that my husband can find the tools he needs to do the same.
It took me a while to put my words together, but when I responded, I basically said that I am very worried about our marriage. I told him that work, money, etc. won't be the reason our marriage fails; if it fails, it will be due to un-resolved issues and his anger problem. Without diagnosing him, I said, "I believe you struggle because of things you experienced when you were a child."
He opened up and we talked about his father, his childhood in general. He said his father was never an angry drunk, just really talkative. He said the thing that bothers him most from his childhood is being left alone a lot, after his parents divorced and his mom started working. He said he had temper problems when he was a kid, as soon as his parents divorced.
As we were talking, I reminded him of my own childhood. He said, "I know you've always said you wouldn't live like that again."
We both agreed that I will not stay in the marriage if it hurts the girls.
I suggested that we come up with some coping strategies to help us both remain calm when things get stressful. Some of our most stressful times can be during the week when we are both working, coming home to cook, care for the girls, homework, bedtimes, etc. We talked about making dinners for the week on the weekend, so no one has to cook after a commute. We used to do that, and it was helpful. We talked about going back to church for support and positive male role models. My husband used to be a part of a local church and enjoyed it.
I asked that we set ground rules for things that we/he will never do again. I told him that his joking about violence toward the children is terrifying to me, and I need him to not do it ever. He was very embarrassed about it, and he agreed. He said that there are times when he just needs to walk away from a frustrating situation. We agreed that if he is with the baby, he will say to me, "Here, take her."
Thank you everyone for your responses. More than anything, I am trying to understand my husband.
I can appreciate that from the outside in, it seems like I set myself up for this. But that is not the case. I had a lot of honest counsel before I married my husband, and I have made every decision, baby and all, with deep conviction. I find the "Let me get this straight" comment to be unhelpful. Yes, I knew my husband had issues, as he did me. I honestly haven't met anyone without them. Before we married, he had never lashed out. When that incident occurred, it completely blindsided me and him both. He immediately the next day called his siblings and mom and told them about his behavior. And we haven't been out drinking like that since.
I'm sorry if that comes off as defensive. I'm not ready to leave my marriage. That's not why I came to this board.
I have a lot of my own issues, but I know that I have the tools to deal with them, be a loving, effective mother, and have a career. I'm hoping that my husband can find the tools he needs to do the same.
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 171
Yep,
Hi... as I logged into this board I was looking for a message of hope.
And, yes I found it in your posting, thanks. I could have been walking in your hubby's shoes, and you might have bin telling my wife's story.
Getting to the stage where we can talk things over... that is great. Oh yes, it aint easy, but over time it truly is worth it.
:>) DavidG
New Zealand.
Hi... as I logged into this board I was looking for a message of hope.
And, yes I found it in your posting, thanks. I could have been walking in your hubby's shoes, and you might have bin telling my wife's story.
Getting to the stage where we can talk things over... that is great. Oh yes, it aint easy, but over time it truly is worth it.
:>) DavidG
New Zealand.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 499
I'm glad that he understands his behavior is unacceptable. At this point I think it becomes really important to pay attention to actions, not words. So it's good that you guys have created some strategies for handling stress, but watch his actual behavior - his behavior will demonstrate whether he is employing the strategies or not. Words mean nothing without demonstrated behavioral changes.
I think it would be extremely beneficial for him to talk to someone familiar with ACoA principles, like a therapist or ACoA chapter of AlAnon. Has he read the ACoA sourcebook at all? For a lot of us it was a real eye-opener to discover that we possessed all of these characteristics, and that there was a reason for them - I know it was for me! The discovery that I wasn't alone in my "abnormal" thoughts and feelings really cleared a path for me to begin to heal and learn more appropriate, healthy responses to situations.
Oh, one other thing: not all therapists are well versed in this ACoA stuff, and I wasted a lot of money before I realized that, so if he decides to get some help I recommend that he seek out someone more specialized. I wish you both the best, you'll be in my thoughts and prayers.
I think it would be extremely beneficial for him to talk to someone familiar with ACoA principles, like a therapist or ACoA chapter of AlAnon. Has he read the ACoA sourcebook at all? For a lot of us it was a real eye-opener to discover that we possessed all of these characteristics, and that there was a reason for them - I know it was for me! The discovery that I wasn't alone in my "abnormal" thoughts and feelings really cleared a path for me to begin to heal and learn more appropriate, healthy responses to situations.
Oh, one other thing: not all therapists are well versed in this ACoA stuff, and I wasted a lot of money before I realized that, so if he decides to get some help I recommend that he seek out someone more specialized. I wish you both the best, you'll be in my thoughts and prayers.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Back East
Posts: 704
Well, it's good that your husband has some self-awareness -- that's essential. This kind of thing is familiar to... an ACoA married to another ACoA. Both my wife and I hate to hear "bad news," and sometimes we avoid things to the point of... well, I don't explode, I implode, which is just as bad.
Has either of you done any 12-step work -- Al-Anon or Adult Children of Alcoholics? Either one or both of those have been very helpful for me, and you (two) might find the same....
T
Has either of you done any 12-step work -- Al-Anon or Adult Children of Alcoholics? Either one or both of those have been very helpful for me, and you (two) might find the same....
T
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 462
i had anger issues from my childhood too. the way you described your husband is exactly how i felt. i can tell you one thing for sure. anger issues DO NOT go away by simply saying sorry and having a conversation. they go away with dealing and accepting the issues that caused that emotion. i can tell you that i was a walking time bomb. one moment i appeared to be ok. stressed but ok. a blink later i could just as easily have exploded. you can feel the tension bubbling up inside. and you know you have a choice to make. yes there is a point that you make a choice to explode and go im so sick of feeling like this, or to walk away and calm down. i needed professional help. im glad i got it. it was hard and it took me through hell again. but those feelings of losing control are now manageable. i hope your husband gets help, or i wouldnt be staying in that house, knowing the way i was. and your husband could do a hell of a lot more damage than i could.
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
I am sorry you felt the need to be defensive or felt attacted. I did not appreciate that comment either. SR should be and usually is - a safe place to come for help and support.
That said, many people here are adult children of alcoholics and get triggered by any child in a home remotely like the one they grew up in. The effects of alcoholism has very long tentacles and until addressed will continue to effect each generation in a very unhealthy way.
You have the opportunity to raise your children in a healthy, loving home and be the generation that makes the difference. I pray you decide to do that.
Alanon or ACOA would benefit both of you. Make it a night with your husband with dinner out too. A good report card is far less important then an emotionally healthy child.
That said, many people here are adult children of alcoholics and get triggered by any child in a home remotely like the one they grew up in. The effects of alcoholism has very long tentacles and until addressed will continue to effect each generation in a very unhealthy way.
You have the opportunity to raise your children in a healthy, loving home and be the generation that makes the difference. I pray you decide to do that.
Alanon or ACOA would benefit both of you. Make it a night with your husband with dinner out too. A good report card is far less important then an emotionally healthy child.
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 6,728
I do feel that one to one conversations are important, however, I also believe that some behavior issues cannot be resolved without therapy.
Time will tell whether the agreed upon ground rules will be adhered to or not. Words mean nothing, it is all about his actions. Personally, I have found that setting bounderies to be a better option, especially, with adults.
Hope this all works out for you and your children.
Time will tell whether the agreed upon ground rules will be adhered to or not. Words mean nothing, it is all about his actions. Personally, I have found that setting bounderies to be a better option, especially, with adults.
Hope this all works out for you and your children.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4
I can understand how my original post could be a trigger for children who grew up in alcoholic homes. In fact, although I did not grow up in an alcoholic home, had I read my own post, I might have had strong reactions as well. The thing is, I didn't come to this site for that. I have been reading threads for a week or so and I gathered that this was a place I could get some empathy as well as really learn what is behind these issues. So thank you all for the replies.
Here's where I am today:
I am sad, frustrated, angry, tired.
Even though my husband and I had a great conversation the other night, and things have been ok since, I still don't feel peace. I find myself being hyper-sensitive and hyper-vigilant, which is classic for PTSD resulting from the childhood abuse I experienced. I can't sleep. I am lying awake thinking about my marriage.
I was in an unhealthy relationship in the past. For over five years, I was with this man, who in many, many ways was a great person, and who in many ways, I loved. This was my 9 year old's father. The thing is, when we began to have problems, and I sought counsel, the truth is that I wanted to leave. I was looking for someone to tell me it was ok to leave, I needed to leave, it was better to leave than to stay. Yes, he had problems. He was clingy, needy, very controlling, constantly accusing me of infidelity, beyond critical, and emotionally more manipulative than anyone I've met since. But beyond those things, which perhaps could have been addressed and changed, I didn't want to be with him. At the time, I could not see or say that. But I was so unhappy, not attracted to him at all. He would pressure me, which brought back feelings of entrapment from previous abuse and rape. What I'm trying to say is two things: 1) I didn't want to be there and subconsciously searched for reasons big enough to leave. 2) My issues and his issues played a powerful dynamic, so that I always felt forced and trapped, and he always felt unwanted and unloved. There were so many defining moments that led to me leaving, but it took years. One day I woke up and I just knew that the adult thing to do was walk away. Because we had a precious child together, that was the hardest decision I ever made.
Today we coparent like all-stars. We are respectful, we communicate efficiently and amicably, we live in the same school district and share nearly equal time with our daughter. She's very well adjusted, is close to both of us, loves her step-parents, and does well in school. I feel like, even though we failed together, we succeeded as parents.
All that history to bring me to where I am now with my husband:
I don't want to leave. I don't want to leave. Not even a little bit. I can't imagine, much less fantasize, about loving another man. Not because it wouldn't feel good to watch him crawl and beg and realize how blessed he is to have me and the girls. Because it would. It would feel so good right now to give him a big slap in the face, kick in the gut wake up call. But I've been thinking alot about this, and the truth is that I don't want to leave him. I came into this marriage having learned a lot, both about myself and how I can better handle crises in a relationship. I don't want to hurt my husband. I don't want to villify him or alienate him, so that he closes up even tighter than he already is. It has take years for him to open up to me in some areas. When I met him, he was a very quiet guy. I can attack with the best of them, and a degree in Psychology to throw some big words in there. But when I married my husband, I did it with a tender heart. I vowed to love and forgive, to touch him with soft, healing hands, not batter him with his flaws- nomatter how severe they may be. I waited years to get married. My mother was divorced three times before I was a teenager, and I was there for all three of them. I went through a lot of work-personal therapy, hard lessons, prayer, and patience- to get to the point that I could walk down the aisle without vomiting, much less the joy, sincerity, and genuine love I felt when I married my husband. I cannot tell you how seriously I take those vows.
For everyone who is asking if we've been to alanon, AA, etc. or read any of the books. No. As I mentioned, I have a background in Psychology, currently getting my masters. I have worked in both substance abuse counseling and in child services with addicts and alcoholics, and in all my experience and training, I have never heard any details, and very little mention, of adult children of alcoholics.
For all the comments that I should have seen his issues, honestly, I was always looking for a drinking problem. And the night he blew up while drunk, I thought I had found it. When he confronted that head-on and made a 2 beer rule and stuck to it, and all accounts from friends and family was this was never an issue, I thought everything was going to be ok. I honestly never knew that being a child of an alcoholic had its own set of issues. And I can guarantee you that my husband has no idea that there are entire support groups and forums dedicated to people like him. And before I introduce him to all of it, I want to be prepared. Because there is no worse feeling than being diagnosed, villified, or psycho-analyzed by your best friend and partner. I am really worried about the power imbalance that that can create, and again, him feeling betrayed and threatened and shutting down.
So. Here I am. processing everything, scouring the internet for information, running across all sorts of opinions and forums like this. And I'm trying to figure out what to take and what to leave.
A lot of people, and obviously ones who experienced abusive childhoods, quickly advise to leave. This morning, I was continuing a thought process on this. And I was thinking, "Ok, so I don't want to leave, I love him. But should I leave for my kids?" And then I'm thinking about the hypothetical situation. The truth is that leaving him doesn't make my daughter any safer. I have worked in child services, and I know what it takes for a judge in the state of Florida to restrict a father's access to his child or make it supervised. That man has to have physically harmed that child to the extent that a forensic team can prove the harm, and he has to be offered all sorts of parenting classes, anger management, etc. And that is only when the state is involved, which will ravage an otherwise in tact family in most cases. If you do involve the state, you subject your child to all sorts of strangers poking and prodding, coming to the school and the babysitter's, asking questions of a child who is clueless. If that child was not already traumatized by events within the home, you better believe they are now. BOTH parents will have a permanent record as being investigated, because investigations are not as to parents, they are as to children- so all the adults in the child's life are forever tied to the investigation. I've been in the court room for these things, I've done the job. I'm not doing it.
So, if you leave on your own, without family services there to help you get an injunction, etc., then you're going to have to pay a lot of money for a psychologist to interview your child and watch your child with her father and come back and say, "This kid loves her father. There bond is evident. It would be detrimental for their relationship to be restricted." And that my friends, is what would happen. So, then, you're midway through a divorce you can't afford from a man you love, only to share the child with him that you were trying to protect from him. Can anyone see how this doesn't add up? So, then, I'm sharing this child with him. She goes to his house, and suddenly, I can't be there to see whether he's escalating. And she can't tell me, because she's pre-verbal.
So, as of this morning, I had a personal light-bulb moment. In addition to my gut and heart committment to my husband, I do not believe it would be in my child's best interest for me to leave him. I would rather be there, see him with my own eyes, and be able to intervene- God forbid I need to- than the alternative.
So, I'm not leaving.
I don't know exactly how to proceed. On one hand, I know my husband needs therapy. I have been researching this. I think couples counseling will be our best bet. 1) I am almost certain he will go if I ask him to. 2) He has a hard time communicating, and if I'm there, I can get the conversation started. 3) We can discuss how he is affecting me, not just some abstract idea of a problem he might have from something that happened in his childhood, since he probably doesn't think he has that problem.
But I am also afraid of therapy. My ex and I went to therapy, and it pretty much facilitated my exit. Come to find out, upon doing some research, that marriage counseling has a nice way of showing people their options, most only go when they're on the way out the door, and therapists tend to not be pro-marriage or pro-divorce. Being a counselor in training does not at all increase my confidence. We're taught not to try to influence the outcome, although we know that the majority of couples in counseling are looking for some guidance. And besides that, we all have different views, upbringings, ideas of marriage, how much one should take, etc. I'm afraid that if we go to counseling, we are pretty much slinging the door right open. It is also admitting to problems, which of course, is hard to do. But, I won't be one of those people who waits until I'm planning his funeral (metaphorically) to seek help.
I need to find someone who has the same committment to marriage that I do, who will not villify him, and who will not label me as a victim. Being made out to be a victim is not helpful in any situation, and is actually pretty dis-empowering. I'm not looking for somebody to treat me like a scared little girl who's sticking it out because she doesn't love herself enough.
Whew. I'm sorry this was so long. It's only the tip of the iceberg of all the things I've been thinking and feeling. I really appreciate that there is a place like soberrecovery where I can put it out there. I am hesitant to talk to family and friends, because I have found in the past that they can be more destructive than helpful.
Here's where I am today:
I am sad, frustrated, angry, tired.
Even though my husband and I had a great conversation the other night, and things have been ok since, I still don't feel peace. I find myself being hyper-sensitive and hyper-vigilant, which is classic for PTSD resulting from the childhood abuse I experienced. I can't sleep. I am lying awake thinking about my marriage.
I was in an unhealthy relationship in the past. For over five years, I was with this man, who in many, many ways was a great person, and who in many ways, I loved. This was my 9 year old's father. The thing is, when we began to have problems, and I sought counsel, the truth is that I wanted to leave. I was looking for someone to tell me it was ok to leave, I needed to leave, it was better to leave than to stay. Yes, he had problems. He was clingy, needy, very controlling, constantly accusing me of infidelity, beyond critical, and emotionally more manipulative than anyone I've met since. But beyond those things, which perhaps could have been addressed and changed, I didn't want to be with him. At the time, I could not see or say that. But I was so unhappy, not attracted to him at all. He would pressure me, which brought back feelings of entrapment from previous abuse and rape. What I'm trying to say is two things: 1) I didn't want to be there and subconsciously searched for reasons big enough to leave. 2) My issues and his issues played a powerful dynamic, so that I always felt forced and trapped, and he always felt unwanted and unloved. There were so many defining moments that led to me leaving, but it took years. One day I woke up and I just knew that the adult thing to do was walk away. Because we had a precious child together, that was the hardest decision I ever made.
Today we coparent like all-stars. We are respectful, we communicate efficiently and amicably, we live in the same school district and share nearly equal time with our daughter. She's very well adjusted, is close to both of us, loves her step-parents, and does well in school. I feel like, even though we failed together, we succeeded as parents.
All that history to bring me to where I am now with my husband:
I don't want to leave. I don't want to leave. Not even a little bit. I can't imagine, much less fantasize, about loving another man. Not because it wouldn't feel good to watch him crawl and beg and realize how blessed he is to have me and the girls. Because it would. It would feel so good right now to give him a big slap in the face, kick in the gut wake up call. But I've been thinking alot about this, and the truth is that I don't want to leave him. I came into this marriage having learned a lot, both about myself and how I can better handle crises in a relationship. I don't want to hurt my husband. I don't want to villify him or alienate him, so that he closes up even tighter than he already is. It has take years for him to open up to me in some areas. When I met him, he was a very quiet guy. I can attack with the best of them, and a degree in Psychology to throw some big words in there. But when I married my husband, I did it with a tender heart. I vowed to love and forgive, to touch him with soft, healing hands, not batter him with his flaws- nomatter how severe they may be. I waited years to get married. My mother was divorced three times before I was a teenager, and I was there for all three of them. I went through a lot of work-personal therapy, hard lessons, prayer, and patience- to get to the point that I could walk down the aisle without vomiting, much less the joy, sincerity, and genuine love I felt when I married my husband. I cannot tell you how seriously I take those vows.
For everyone who is asking if we've been to alanon, AA, etc. or read any of the books. No. As I mentioned, I have a background in Psychology, currently getting my masters. I have worked in both substance abuse counseling and in child services with addicts and alcoholics, and in all my experience and training, I have never heard any details, and very little mention, of adult children of alcoholics.
For all the comments that I should have seen his issues, honestly, I was always looking for a drinking problem. And the night he blew up while drunk, I thought I had found it. When he confronted that head-on and made a 2 beer rule and stuck to it, and all accounts from friends and family was this was never an issue, I thought everything was going to be ok. I honestly never knew that being a child of an alcoholic had its own set of issues. And I can guarantee you that my husband has no idea that there are entire support groups and forums dedicated to people like him. And before I introduce him to all of it, I want to be prepared. Because there is no worse feeling than being diagnosed, villified, or psycho-analyzed by your best friend and partner. I am really worried about the power imbalance that that can create, and again, him feeling betrayed and threatened and shutting down.
So. Here I am. processing everything, scouring the internet for information, running across all sorts of opinions and forums like this. And I'm trying to figure out what to take and what to leave.
A lot of people, and obviously ones who experienced abusive childhoods, quickly advise to leave. This morning, I was continuing a thought process on this. And I was thinking, "Ok, so I don't want to leave, I love him. But should I leave for my kids?" And then I'm thinking about the hypothetical situation. The truth is that leaving him doesn't make my daughter any safer. I have worked in child services, and I know what it takes for a judge in the state of Florida to restrict a father's access to his child or make it supervised. That man has to have physically harmed that child to the extent that a forensic team can prove the harm, and he has to be offered all sorts of parenting classes, anger management, etc. And that is only when the state is involved, which will ravage an otherwise in tact family in most cases. If you do involve the state, you subject your child to all sorts of strangers poking and prodding, coming to the school and the babysitter's, asking questions of a child who is clueless. If that child was not already traumatized by events within the home, you better believe they are now. BOTH parents will have a permanent record as being investigated, because investigations are not as to parents, they are as to children- so all the adults in the child's life are forever tied to the investigation. I've been in the court room for these things, I've done the job. I'm not doing it.
So, if you leave on your own, without family services there to help you get an injunction, etc., then you're going to have to pay a lot of money for a psychologist to interview your child and watch your child with her father and come back and say, "This kid loves her father. There bond is evident. It would be detrimental for their relationship to be restricted." And that my friends, is what would happen. So, then, you're midway through a divorce you can't afford from a man you love, only to share the child with him that you were trying to protect from him. Can anyone see how this doesn't add up? So, then, I'm sharing this child with him. She goes to his house, and suddenly, I can't be there to see whether he's escalating. And she can't tell me, because she's pre-verbal.
So, as of this morning, I had a personal light-bulb moment. In addition to my gut and heart committment to my husband, I do not believe it would be in my child's best interest for me to leave him. I would rather be there, see him with my own eyes, and be able to intervene- God forbid I need to- than the alternative.
So, I'm not leaving.
I don't know exactly how to proceed. On one hand, I know my husband needs therapy. I have been researching this. I think couples counseling will be our best bet. 1) I am almost certain he will go if I ask him to. 2) He has a hard time communicating, and if I'm there, I can get the conversation started. 3) We can discuss how he is affecting me, not just some abstract idea of a problem he might have from something that happened in his childhood, since he probably doesn't think he has that problem.
But I am also afraid of therapy. My ex and I went to therapy, and it pretty much facilitated my exit. Come to find out, upon doing some research, that marriage counseling has a nice way of showing people their options, most only go when they're on the way out the door, and therapists tend to not be pro-marriage or pro-divorce. Being a counselor in training does not at all increase my confidence. We're taught not to try to influence the outcome, although we know that the majority of couples in counseling are looking for some guidance. And besides that, we all have different views, upbringings, ideas of marriage, how much one should take, etc. I'm afraid that if we go to counseling, we are pretty much slinging the door right open. It is also admitting to problems, which of course, is hard to do. But, I won't be one of those people who waits until I'm planning his funeral (metaphorically) to seek help.
I need to find someone who has the same committment to marriage that I do, who will not villify him, and who will not label me as a victim. Being made out to be a victim is not helpful in any situation, and is actually pretty dis-empowering. I'm not looking for somebody to treat me like a scared little girl who's sticking it out because she doesn't love herself enough.
Whew. I'm sorry this was so long. It's only the tip of the iceberg of all the things I've been thinking and feeling. I really appreciate that there is a place like soberrecovery where I can put it out there. I am hesitant to talk to family and friends, because I have found in the past that they can be more destructive than helpful.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 110
I'm not religious, but it sounds like in this case you need the church. I don't know where you'd find a more pro-marriage third party to hear you out.... If you are not willing to do therapy, AA, ACOA or whatever. If you can't face those things yet, I get it. I also post on SR because I am too chicken to go to a group or to therapy. I also happen to live in a foreign country where they speak another language, so that adds to it.
My dad is an alcoholic and ACOA. He stopped drinking when I was 6. But that didn't stop him from being as abusive as your husband is. Except he used to hit us as well.
Your husband has deep-seated issues that you cannot help him with. So what are YOU going to do?
I am 31 years old now, and even though I have come a long way, I am still affected negatively by my upbringing. Just today a coworker yelled at me for something stupid. "Who the hell is she to talk to me that way?", I fumed all day long. It ruined my day.
But do you think I did something about it at the time? Being yelled at by anyone, for any reason, paralyzes me even now. I avoid confrontation even when it harms me to do it. And then I feel ashamed for it. I'm 31 years old and I still act like I'm 3 when stuff like that happens! I grew up in a home where disagreements could end very unpredictably, and this protected me to some extent.
No one can tell you how to live, but I would like to remind you that if you got divorced, you'd set your kids free from abuse for at least half the time. I wish my mother had done that for me.
I don't want to be harsh, you have been through a lot. If the problem just started, and he wants help, then I hope you are able to work things out. But don't kid yourself that staying with an abuser is the best you can do for your kids!
My dad is an alcoholic and ACOA. He stopped drinking when I was 6. But that didn't stop him from being as abusive as your husband is. Except he used to hit us as well.
Your husband has deep-seated issues that you cannot help him with. So what are YOU going to do?
I am 31 years old now, and even though I have come a long way, I am still affected negatively by my upbringing. Just today a coworker yelled at me for something stupid. "Who the hell is she to talk to me that way?", I fumed all day long. It ruined my day.
But do you think I did something about it at the time? Being yelled at by anyone, for any reason, paralyzes me even now. I avoid confrontation even when it harms me to do it. And then I feel ashamed for it. I'm 31 years old and I still act like I'm 3 when stuff like that happens! I grew up in a home where disagreements could end very unpredictably, and this protected me to some extent.
No one can tell you how to live, but I would like to remind you that if you got divorced, you'd set your kids free from abuse for at least half the time. I wish my mother had done that for me.
I don't want to be harsh, you have been through a lot. If the problem just started, and he wants help, then I hope you are able to work things out. But don't kid yourself that staying with an abuser is the best you can do for your kids!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4
I am definitely willing to go to therapy, and all of the above. I just want to be careful to find the right therapist and go about it in a way that will facilitate healing, not divide us further. And, yes, I'm definitely scared. I also think that the church can be a good resource. While I am a person of faith, I have not been able to find a church I feel comfortable in in many years. But I have been thinking about it, and my husband and I discussed it the other night. Thank you for your input.
Keeping it simple!
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Surrey, BC
Posts: 3,282
Originally Posted by lrwl 
I am definitely willing to go to therapy, and all of the above. I just want to be careful to find the right therapist and go about it in a way that will facilitate healing, not divide us further. And, yes, I'm definitely scared. I also think that the church can be a good resource. While I am a person of faith, I have not been able to find a church I feel comfortable in in many years. But I have been thinking about it, and my husband and I discussed it the other night. Thank you for your input.
I grew up in an alcholic home and we were emotionally abused. This leaves scars and I'm sure you don't want your kids to go thru this either.
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Irish
Posts: 552
Irwl....Great to Have you Here.....Im seething inside at times as well...Im a Recovering Alcoholic/Tranqualiser Addict Clean Now Many Years.I know What wrong...Its My Father In Me....There is a Song that always Reminds Me of the Relationship i Had with my Father....You Probibly Heard it Often...I cry When I listen to it Sometimes.Mike and the Mechanics - The Living Years ( HQ sound - with Lyrics ) - YouTube
I have Attended AA and Many other Programs Sense I Addmited I had a Problem...I attend ACA now it Helps.I am Re Parenting My Self With Lots of Help From HP and Friends Attending ACA...Also Sites Like This....There is a solution...Please read The Problem and the Solution of ACA....Ill stick a link here to Them for you.
The Problem - Adult Children of Alcoholics - World Service Organization, Inc.
The Solution - Adult Children of Alcoholics - World Service Organization, Inc.
I have Attended AA and Many other Programs Sense I Addmited I had a Problem...I attend ACA now it Helps.I am Re Parenting My Self With Lots of Help From HP and Friends Attending ACA...Also Sites Like This....There is a solution...Please read The Problem and the Solution of ACA....Ill stick a link here to Them for you.
The Problem - Adult Children of Alcoholics - World Service Organization, Inc.
The Solution - Adult Children of Alcoholics - World Service Organization, Inc.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 196
Irwl, the wonderful people on this site give amazing.insight that we can't always see for ourselves. However, because of the trauma knee jerk reactions do happen, remember take what you want leave the rest. No one persons right. That being said, and please I don't intend to offend you, but my best friend and forever confidant an adoptive sister has a psych degree, she counseled for years.she helped to put me on the road to my own recovery. However, and she agrees, sometines that gives her a false sense of certainty. As you see, most people in the field don't even hear about acoas. It'd hard to explain, "hey gee listen I'm a mini alcoholic without ever taking a sip. I'll need you to be loving but firm but I also need you to respect I'm an adult, and while I never want you to leave, I understand as much as you that if my trauma ever is too strong please be honest and protect yourself." It's still something I struggle with, learning to love without my issues deciding my actions. Loving was never hard for me, I love truly and deeply the people around me, learning appropriate boundaries was a struggle that a combination of my own recovery and the loving people in my life helped me with.I do fear that if you only do marriage counseling.you will solve communication problems but not the communication problems he has with himself. Until he sees, accepts, and starts to change the root problem, as a psychologist you must know, fixing the surface never lasts unless its a quick behavioral habit. This goes deeper.
I respect and adore your commitment to your vows, and if you stay because you feel that want and your children truly are better to have their father around then do. But they are correct, half the time in a safe and healthy home would not only help in the short term but eventually your children would realize that the other home is not preferred, and that is when they will tell and show the people who evaluate that there is a problem. Because right now if he's doing it and they see no problem. They are learning his acoa behaviors and are going.to have the same path. this fear is what makes many on here jump at your story. So be vigilant, be cautious, but remember that kids pick up everything and your vigilance won't hide as much as you think. I wish you the best of luck, and I hope you speak to him and he sees the light and wants to help himself and your marriage. Because right now no one.can be happy, including him.
I respect and adore your commitment to your vows, and if you stay because you feel that want and your children truly are better to have their father around then do. But they are correct, half the time in a safe and healthy home would not only help in the short term but eventually your children would realize that the other home is not preferred, and that is when they will tell and show the people who evaluate that there is a problem. Because right now if he's doing it and they see no problem. They are learning his acoa behaviors and are going.to have the same path. this fear is what makes many on here jump at your story. So be vigilant, be cautious, but remember that kids pick up everything and your vigilance won't hide as much as you think. I wish you the best of luck, and I hope you speak to him and he sees the light and wants to help himself and your marriage. Because right now no one.can be happy, including him.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Great Lakes
Posts: 84
Be super careful about choosing a therapist and a marriage counselor. Mine found a therapist who bought into his victim game and totally reinforced all the crazy stuff he'd thought up and blamed me for everything. It was months of hell, me expecting him to get help and him getting reinforcement for the way he was treating me. And if the marriage counselor is not aware of these issues, he or she may try the both sides do it tack. That is not necessarily true when you are dealing with an abusive relationship. Just sayin'.
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Upstate NY, in the Adirondacks
Posts: 232
I read your story, and I admire your commitment to your husband and marriage. But - you said he already mistreats the pets, which is a huge trigger for me, and threatened to throw the bottle in your baby's face. And I know you don't want to hear it, but being true to my honesty, I have to ask: what would make you leave him? Anything? Actually hitting you? Kicking the pet? Throwing that bottle? Because he did some pretty unacceptable things already, all of which made you commit to him even more strongly. Which is not a healthy reaction.
I have gone to therapy for almost 3 years now, and my husband just started, and both therapists believe that we have to clear some of our own issues before we even attempt to work on marriage issues. And the longer I go, and the more I learn about why I do what I did, and the less we need marriage counseling. For the physical safety of you, your girls and your pets, I think you should get a good counselor, as others said here. And I know you don't want to hear this, but as a parent, we have an obligation to keep our children and animals safe, regardless of how hard it is. Please give that some thought.
I have gone to therapy for almost 3 years now, and my husband just started, and both therapists believe that we have to clear some of our own issues before we even attempt to work on marriage issues. And the longer I go, and the more I learn about why I do what I did, and the less we need marriage counseling. For the physical safety of you, your girls and your pets, I think you should get a good counselor, as others said here. And I know you don't want to hear this, but as a parent, we have an obligation to keep our children and animals safe, regardless of how hard it is. Please give that some thought.
Co-dependant Control Freak
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 85
In reading your story, your husband reminded me of me. My mom wasnt a mean drunk, she was a happy, loving, party some more and be unpredictable drunk. Which is JUST as scary and damaging as a mean drunk. I used to be able to tell story after story of things my mom did, and you would never know it hurt me, because I 1) stuffed it and/or 2) completely detached from it as though it didnt happen to me, it happened to another child, so I didnt have to feel the feelings that would have been associated with it.
So it sounds to me like your husband is doing the same. Well, guess what... It doesnt stay stuffed forever. It comes out when it is ready to, whether you are ready or not. In my case, I turned it on myself, it sounds like he is turning all of that fear and anger on everyone else around him.
One of the things my therapist at that time had me do was write down one of those negative experiences with my mom, in the most detail I could muster, the color of the carpet, was it a stormy day, where there scents in the air, really going back. He then had me read it to him, then rewrite it to see if there was more detail, by the third version I couldnt read all the way through without breaking down from the pain that that experience elicited from that inner child.
If you and your husband do go to therapy, find one who specializes in adult children of A's or abuse survivors. It will help him dramatically. Good luck, it sounds like your DH loves you deeply.
So it sounds to me like your husband is doing the same. Well, guess what... It doesnt stay stuffed forever. It comes out when it is ready to, whether you are ready or not. In my case, I turned it on myself, it sounds like he is turning all of that fear and anger on everyone else around him.
One of the things my therapist at that time had me do was write down one of those negative experiences with my mom, in the most detail I could muster, the color of the carpet, was it a stormy day, where there scents in the air, really going back. He then had me read it to him, then rewrite it to see if there was more detail, by the third version I couldnt read all the way through without breaking down from the pain that that experience elicited from that inner child.
If you and your husband do go to therapy, find one who specializes in adult children of A's or abuse survivors. It will help him dramatically. Good luck, it sounds like your DH loves you deeply.
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