Thoughts and advise are welcome
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 7
Thoughts and advise are welcome
Susan and I have been married for 15 years. She is 60 and I am 68.
When we were first married we were having a great time starting a new business and finishing our day with a cocktail hour that lasted from 5pm until bed time. She was a scotch drinker and I was a bourbon drinker. Scotch and water was her poison and manhattans were mine.
We did that for some years and I knew, and even mentioned to Susan that we were probably drinking too much and should cut back. She brushed it off and neither of us slowed down until one day she visited our doctor and he diagnosed cirrhosis of the liver and ordered er to stop drinking altogether.
That scared her and she quit. I quit too to be of support. I wasn't going to drink in front of her and I though it was probably a good thing to cut back anyway.
At some point though, she started drinking again and hiding it. When I suspected it I searched the house one day when she was out and found a stash of scotch bottles in the closet of her home office. Further searching produced a glass of scotch, still with ice, in the bottom drawer of her bedside night stand.
Over the years she's temporarily quit a few times, but she always comes back to the bottle. I've never told her that I know where she keeps the stash of bottles because I don't want to have to look for the next hiding place. She also doesn't know that I know where she keeps the glass in her night stand, again because this way I know where to look when I need to check.
One positive thing is that she knows she's addicted to alcohol because she had admitted it. She said she thought quitting smoking was the most difficult thing one could do, but quitting drinking was much worse. She has admitted that.
Having not had to deal with anything like this before I though the proactive approach was best so I berated her for her drinking and all she did was dig in her heels and hide it all the more. She is a head strong, stubborn individual. I also tried the gentle approach with equal failure.
Very recently she was walking our BIG dog through the neighborhood and when he pulled her off balance she went straight down and broke her hip. I took her straight to the hospital (against her wishes) and she had surgery three days later for a partial hip replacement. They were going to perform the operation the day after her arrival, but they questioned her about her elevated alcohol blood level. She blamed it on cough syrup. It took two more days for her to dry out enough for the operation.
I think she was so unsteady on her feet because of drinking she couldn't recover enough to hold the dog's leash when he pulled to avoid the injury. She denies it, but the glass she left on her night stand before she took the dog out had lemonade with vodka in it and she was visibly drunk when I picked her up.
Recent articles I've read indicate the addicted individual has to come to the realization on their own to decide to overcome their alcohol addiction. I think I believe that considering how stubborn she is. Maybe different things work for different people, but I think she is going to have to come to her own motivations to quit on her own and the best thing I can do is live with it until she decides to quit on her own.
I thought the injury would be enough to hit bottom, but is isn't, She is healing quickly, thankfully, but she's getting off the pain pills as fast as she can so she can drink again and she has already started again. She has also tried driving again, successfully, and I know it's preparation for getting to the liquor store to stock up again.
There is conflicting information on the Internet for dealing with alcohol addiction. Some information recommends intervention, some recommends leaving the drunk alone and letting him or her come to their own realization, and more. I'm thinking they all may be right for the right person, but my inclination now is to let her hit bottom and then encourage her to dry out. My biggest concern is that she won't decide to do it before she kills her liver and it's too late.
Any thoughts or ideas anyone out there has are most welcome. Thank you all for being there.
When we were first married we were having a great time starting a new business and finishing our day with a cocktail hour that lasted from 5pm until bed time. She was a scotch drinker and I was a bourbon drinker. Scotch and water was her poison and manhattans were mine.
We did that for some years and I knew, and even mentioned to Susan that we were probably drinking too much and should cut back. She brushed it off and neither of us slowed down until one day she visited our doctor and he diagnosed cirrhosis of the liver and ordered er to stop drinking altogether.
That scared her and she quit. I quit too to be of support. I wasn't going to drink in front of her and I though it was probably a good thing to cut back anyway.
At some point though, she started drinking again and hiding it. When I suspected it I searched the house one day when she was out and found a stash of scotch bottles in the closet of her home office. Further searching produced a glass of scotch, still with ice, in the bottom drawer of her bedside night stand.
Over the years she's temporarily quit a few times, but she always comes back to the bottle. I've never told her that I know where she keeps the stash of bottles because I don't want to have to look for the next hiding place. She also doesn't know that I know where she keeps the glass in her night stand, again because this way I know where to look when I need to check.
One positive thing is that she knows she's addicted to alcohol because she had admitted it. She said she thought quitting smoking was the most difficult thing one could do, but quitting drinking was much worse. She has admitted that.
Having not had to deal with anything like this before I though the proactive approach was best so I berated her for her drinking and all she did was dig in her heels and hide it all the more. She is a head strong, stubborn individual. I also tried the gentle approach with equal failure.
Very recently she was walking our BIG dog through the neighborhood and when he pulled her off balance she went straight down and broke her hip. I took her straight to the hospital (against her wishes) and she had surgery three days later for a partial hip replacement. They were going to perform the operation the day after her arrival, but they questioned her about her elevated alcohol blood level. She blamed it on cough syrup. It took two more days for her to dry out enough for the operation.
I think she was so unsteady on her feet because of drinking she couldn't recover enough to hold the dog's leash when he pulled to avoid the injury. She denies it, but the glass she left on her night stand before she took the dog out had lemonade with vodka in it and she was visibly drunk when I picked her up.
Recent articles I've read indicate the addicted individual has to come to the realization on their own to decide to overcome their alcohol addiction. I think I believe that considering how stubborn she is. Maybe different things work for different people, but I think she is going to have to come to her own motivations to quit on her own and the best thing I can do is live with it until she decides to quit on her own.
I thought the injury would be enough to hit bottom, but is isn't, She is healing quickly, thankfully, but she's getting off the pain pills as fast as she can so she can drink again and she has already started again. She has also tried driving again, successfully, and I know it's preparation for getting to the liquor store to stock up again.
There is conflicting information on the Internet for dealing with alcohol addiction. Some information recommends intervention, some recommends leaving the drunk alone and letting him or her come to their own realization, and more. I'm thinking they all may be right for the right person, but my inclination now is to let her hit bottom and then encourage her to dry out. My biggest concern is that she won't decide to do it before she kills her liver and it's too late.
Any thoughts or ideas anyone out there has are most welcome. Thank you all for being there.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,383
Hi KC
I'm really sorry for your situation - it must be rough.
I know noone and nobody could tell me to stop before I was ready. I'm glad I left to hit my bottom - I may not still be here had I had been continually bailled out from the messes of my own making.
Leaving me to stand or fall on my own feet led me, eventually, to my 'aha' moment.
I understand your fear that leaving her to do that is risky, but it's important to remember she's the only one who can stop this anyway....perhaps it's necessary for her to realise how strongly you feel about this?
I also recommend something like AlAnon for yourself - I don't think you can have too much support.
I've also moved your thread to our Family and Friends section - you'll find support from both friends and family members with experience to share and some alcoholics like me too
I'm glad you've found us - best wishes to you and your wife.
D
I'm really sorry for your situation - it must be rough.
I know noone and nobody could tell me to stop before I was ready. I'm glad I left to hit my bottom - I may not still be here had I had been continually bailled out from the messes of my own making.
Leaving me to stand or fall on my own feet led me, eventually, to my 'aha' moment.
I understand your fear that leaving her to do that is risky, but it's important to remember she's the only one who can stop this anyway....perhaps it's necessary for her to realise how strongly you feel about this?
I also recommend something like AlAnon for yourself - I don't think you can have too much support.
I've also moved your thread to our Family and Friends section - you'll find support from both friends and family members with experience to share and some alcoholics like me too
I'm glad you've found us - best wishes to you and your wife.
D
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,760
Dee is right that it has to be her decision to stop drinking, all you can do is support her in that decision should she decide to stop. What about support for you? You're going thru hard times and need some support to keep you sane. As suggested, why don't you check into AlAnon?
Welcome to our recovery family! :ghug3
Welcome to our recovery family! :ghug3
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 6,728
My mother is the main alkie in my life. When she was in her 70's she had a hip replacement. Had a walker, still drank, then decide she would take nyquil, plus her pain meds. Well, she took a dive one day, landed on her face and broke her nose.
You would think that she would learn her lesson, no, she is still drinking at age 87, she likes manhattans too, lots of them. She has been drinking non stop/daily for over 65 years, must be a world's record!
Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do, she will lie about her drinking, then she will minamize her usuage.
I recommend Alanon too, also ready the stickeys at the top of this forum and cynical one's blogs, should help you!
.
You would think that she would learn her lesson, no, she is still drinking at age 87, she likes manhattans too, lots of them. She has been drinking non stop/daily for over 65 years, must be a world's record!
Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do, she will lie about her drinking, then she will minamize her usuage.
I recommend Alanon too, also ready the stickeys at the top of this forum and cynical one's blogs, should help you!
.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Welcome, kc. Like the other posters, my experiences have fallen along the same lines of "let them be"; trying to change someone else when they aren't inclined just leads to resentment for both of us.
You can take your chances and try to force the bottom, as is recommended on some sites and in some books, but I also found that not to be effective in the long run.
Try a few Al-Anon meetings. Sometimes, getting healthy yourself can be the most effective thing, for you and your wife. At the very least, you can relax and stop running around trying to clean up after her messes. At best, you'll be setting the lead for her to follow into her own program of recovery.
Keep reading, and keep coming back!
~T
You can take your chances and try to force the bottom, as is recommended on some sites and in some books, but I also found that not to be effective in the long run.
Try a few Al-Anon meetings. Sometimes, getting healthy yourself can be the most effective thing, for you and your wife. At the very least, you can relax and stop running around trying to clean up after her messes. At best, you'll be setting the lead for her to follow into her own program of recovery.
Keep reading, and keep coming back!
~T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 7
My thanks to all of you for your kind words and advise. I was pretty sure I shouldn't force things, but I needed to hear it from all of you who have been there. Your thoughts and advise are more appreciated than I can express. I wish the best to all of you who responded.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,407
Things didn't change in my situation until I lovingly detached from my ABF's behaviors. This meant not checking where he kept the wine stashed, not counting bottles, not pouring anything out, not solving his problems...including a rear end collision. Only when he figured out I wasn't paying attention anymore did he realize he had no one and no where else. Finally the walls closed in enough and he surrendered to treatment.
We didn't cause it, can't cure it, and can't control it. Focus on you...which means stop checking up on her bottles and drinking glass. It's not stopping her, and it's only upsetting to you. Find an AlAnon group in your area, and find support and strength there for you.
I wish you the very best.
We didn't cause it, can't cure it, and can't control it. Focus on you...which means stop checking up on her bottles and drinking glass. It's not stopping her, and it's only upsetting to you. Find an AlAnon group in your area, and find support and strength there for you.
I wish you the very best.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 7
Good place to come for help
My reason for starting to post here was to seek advise on dealing with and coping with and alcoholic wife. No question that all of us family bystanders need some support for sanity maintenance while coping with a loved one who is an alcoholic.
It has been helpful for me to read so many other posts from so many who seem to be so much worse off than I. It makes me realize how much worse my situation could be and it's sad to realize how many are suffering so much. The comments made in reply to my first post made a world of difference to me. They made me realize my wife has to decide for herself to quit or get help and that I can't quit for her or really do very much to motivate her to stop. I needed to know that by giving her room to decide for herself to quit wasn't enabling her. The one thing I sure do not want to be is an enabler.
The other thing I am so impressed by is the number of great people to gather on this forum who are so generous with their time and constructive comments and suggestions to help their fellow man/woman.
Dee - administrator was one of the first to respond to my first post. The forum indicates she has over 50,000 posts. That is just amazing. I have no doubt this is a volunteer effort on her part which is essential to those of us she helps. I think everyone in this forum who take the time to respond positively to people in need are selfless volunteers who are giving of themselves to do such a wonderful thing for others.
I spent most of my life on career and nearly zero time volunteering for anything. For the past year I have served as a volunteer at our local Veterans Assistance Center where we are mostly vets helping other vets in need. I feel very good about that, but the work Dee and others do on this web site are simply amazing.
God bless you all.
It has been helpful for me to read so many other posts from so many who seem to be so much worse off than I. It makes me realize how much worse my situation could be and it's sad to realize how many are suffering so much. The comments made in reply to my first post made a world of difference to me. They made me realize my wife has to decide for herself to quit or get help and that I can't quit for her or really do very much to motivate her to stop. I needed to know that by giving her room to decide for herself to quit wasn't enabling her. The one thing I sure do not want to be is an enabler.
The other thing I am so impressed by is the number of great people to gather on this forum who are so generous with their time and constructive comments and suggestions to help their fellow man/woman.
Dee - administrator was one of the first to respond to my first post. The forum indicates she has over 50,000 posts. That is just amazing. I have no doubt this is a volunteer effort on her part which is essential to those of us she helps. I think everyone in this forum who take the time to respond positively to people in need are selfless volunteers who are giving of themselves to do such a wonderful thing for others.
I spent most of my life on career and nearly zero time volunteering for anything. For the past year I have served as a volunteer at our local Veterans Assistance Center where we are mostly vets helping other vets in need. I feel very good about that, but the work Dee and others do on this web site are simply amazing.
God bless you all.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 2,937
For me now, here is like home.
I am on the other side of the forums but I see too that everyone responds with love and kindness and genuine concern. Sometimes it takes tough talking, but it is always in the original posters best interests.
There are some of the wisest, most honest, most compassionate people I have ever come across that share this second home with me.
I believe we all help each other.
There is nothing anyone can say that shocks or has probably not being heard before.
I hope you come here and make yourself comfortable.
I suppose my only advice would be what I would consider a 'bottom' is probably not what someone else would consider theirs.
So what you thought might be a bottom for your wife, maybe completely different for her.
I understand you maybe wanting that to be her bottom to protect her from further harm.
And that can be painful, unbelievable, disappointing. It can make you wonder how bad things will get, where situations will end.
I don't really feel qualified to give you any advice as drink has blighted my life.
Please keep coming here and posting.
I am sure you have lots of wisdom to share too.
My best to you x
I am on the other side of the forums but I see too that everyone responds with love and kindness and genuine concern. Sometimes it takes tough talking, but it is always in the original posters best interests.
There are some of the wisest, most honest, most compassionate people I have ever come across that share this second home with me.
I believe we all help each other.
There is nothing anyone can say that shocks or has probably not being heard before.
I hope you come here and make yourself comfortable.
I suppose my only advice would be what I would consider a 'bottom' is probably not what someone else would consider theirs.
So what you thought might be a bottom for your wife, maybe completely different for her.
I understand you maybe wanting that to be her bottom to protect her from further harm.
And that can be painful, unbelievable, disappointing. It can make you wonder how bad things will get, where situations will end.
I don't really feel qualified to give you any advice as drink has blighted my life.
Please keep coming here and posting.
I am sure you have lots of wisdom to share too.
My best to you x
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SE and then South some more
Posts: 2,648
It may be too late, but I wonder if any of the doctors she has had tending to her could talk to her about alcohol use, especially for women as it weakens our bones as we are prone to osteoporosis. Just a thought, my best to you and I think you've already received some great advise.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 7
Let me begin with another thanks to you all for being here and doing what you do to support this community of people in such need.
As I have explained, my wife fell on the street in our neighborhood while walking our dog. He is big, 95 pounds, and strong, but I'm convinced that if she hadn't been drinking all morning she wouldn't have had the accident when he pulled her unexpectedly.
For about 4 - 5 weeks after her hip surgery she was on some pretty powerful pain killers and was being very careful not to take too many of them, knowing that they could be addictive. She also had presence of mind to realize the pain killers and alcohol do not mix, so she didn't drink during that time. For a while I had my old Susan back.
She cut back on her pain medication as quickly as she could and in about the fifth or sixth week was drinking again. A few days ago I think she realized she still needed the pain killers to sleep at night and now for the past few days she has not been drinking.
It just seems a little strange to me that she can stop drinking temporarily when she has to and then start again. I noticed when she was in the hospital and at home on medication and not drinking that she was her old self again and didn't SEEM to miss the alcohol. She must miss it though because when the need to abstain is past, she starts again.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Thank you for your help.
As I have explained, my wife fell on the street in our neighborhood while walking our dog. He is big, 95 pounds, and strong, but I'm convinced that if she hadn't been drinking all morning she wouldn't have had the accident when he pulled her unexpectedly.
For about 4 - 5 weeks after her hip surgery she was on some pretty powerful pain killers and was being very careful not to take too many of them, knowing that they could be addictive. She also had presence of mind to realize the pain killers and alcohol do not mix, so she didn't drink during that time. For a while I had my old Susan back.
She cut back on her pain medication as quickly as she could and in about the fifth or sixth week was drinking again. A few days ago I think she realized she still needed the pain killers to sleep at night and now for the past few days she has not been drinking.
It just seems a little strange to me that she can stop drinking temporarily when she has to and then start again. I noticed when she was in the hospital and at home on medication and not drinking that she was her old self again and didn't SEEM to miss the alcohol. She must miss it though because when the need to abstain is past, she starts again.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Thank you for your help.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 7
Thank you for your thoughts Vegibean. While she was in the hospital I spoke to one of the doctors about her drinking. He said they had help there and told me to talk to her about it. I did, and she just passed it off. I am told by others here that alcoholics typically have to decide on their own to stop. The fact that she can stop for brief periods gives me hope.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Stopping for brief periods doesn't prove much of anything, I'm afraid. I was able to "control" my drinking, even stopping for a while now and then, for discrete periods, but not over the long haul.
Drinking is an obsession for alcoholics, and very tough for anyone who is not one to understand. I've been in two alcoholic marriages, and I am four years sober myself, now. I get it. Unfortunately, I get it. I didn't, though, until my own drinking spiraled out of control.
If she continues to drink, with liver disease, she may not live very long. You might want to have her doctor talk with her again. Sometimes a doctor can intervene where family members don't get through. I know the doctor has already told her, but maybe it would help for someone to explain to her just how lethal this is for someone with liver disease.
You have my sympathy. I've dealt with liver failure in a loved one and it is horrible and scary.
I, too, strongly suggest Al-Anon to help you cope with this craziness.
And BTW, our lovely Dee is a fella. :-) He is awesome, as are all our mods around here.
Drinking is an obsession for alcoholics, and very tough for anyone who is not one to understand. I've been in two alcoholic marriages, and I am four years sober myself, now. I get it. Unfortunately, I get it. I didn't, though, until my own drinking spiraled out of control.
If she continues to drink, with liver disease, she may not live very long. You might want to have her doctor talk with her again. Sometimes a doctor can intervene where family members don't get through. I know the doctor has already told her, but maybe it would help for someone to explain to her just how lethal this is for someone with liver disease.
You have my sympathy. I've dealt with liver failure in a loved one and it is horrible and scary.
I, too, strongly suggest Al-Anon to help you cope with this craziness.
And BTW, our lovely Dee is a fella. :-) He is awesome, as are all our mods around here.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 127
THere's a reason we keep the focus on ourselves in recovery. You are right - only another person can get their own willingness - and your recovery is what you can participate in.
There are zillions of opinions on alcoholism that aren't written by alcoholics. Only a recovered alcoholic is the expert on alcoholism.
The big book of AA has all your answers.
By the way, there's a story in there in the chapter More About Alcoholism - 4 stories actually - and the first is about the man of 30 who quits drinking on his own will power but does no recovery program...he stays sober for decades but upon retirement decides he can drink like other men and is dead within 4 years.
What I'm saying is we can only diagnose ourselves.
There are many people who obstain from alcohol but alcoholism is a disease of the mind...we obsess subtly and sometimes unknowingly about booze and obsess about other things instead...we pick up a drink again eventually unless we work a daily program of recovery.
The Higher Power is in every 12-step fellowship but I never seen anything as powerful as the alanon big book study.
There are zillions of opinions on alcoholism that aren't written by alcoholics. Only a recovered alcoholic is the expert on alcoholism.
The big book of AA has all your answers.
By the way, there's a story in there in the chapter More About Alcoholism - 4 stories actually - and the first is about the man of 30 who quits drinking on his own will power but does no recovery program...he stays sober for decades but upon retirement decides he can drink like other men and is dead within 4 years.
What I'm saying is we can only diagnose ourselves.
There are many people who obstain from alcohol but alcoholism is a disease of the mind...we obsess subtly and sometimes unknowingly about booze and obsess about other things instead...we pick up a drink again eventually unless we work a daily program of recovery.
The Higher Power is in every 12-step fellowship but I never seen anything as powerful as the alanon big book study.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
Welcome to the forum KC. My RAH also had health problems attributed to his drinking at a young age . I think they started when he was around 34 or so and he continued to drink until he nearly died at 39. This was also after losing his business, losing his home, and losing his long time relationship. Another poster mentioned everybody's bottom is different - its a good point.
Maybe the first light bulb moment I had on SR was how illogical alcoholism is. If we 'normies" are hurt by an action, we stop that action - I was applying logic to my husband's relapse last summer. The first encounter for me with him drinking after being sober 10 years. My brain told me if I confront him he will admit and stop. He didn't. If I tell him I won't support it he will stop - he didn't. If he gets sick he will stop - he didn't. If I reward him for not drinking he will stop - he didn't. If I threaten to leave he will stop - he didn't.
I fought Al Anon hard - I did not want to go though it was repeatedly suggested here. It seemed like I was being punished - I wasn't the drunk, why do I have to go? Well- it saved me. That and SR. My husband did end his relapse and we are better as a couple because of me working on my codependency and enabling, and I now have the tools moving forward should he relapse again which is always a possibility. I hope you will consider it.
Maybe the first light bulb moment I had on SR was how illogical alcoholism is. If we 'normies" are hurt by an action, we stop that action - I was applying logic to my husband's relapse last summer. The first encounter for me with him drinking after being sober 10 years. My brain told me if I confront him he will admit and stop. He didn't. If I tell him I won't support it he will stop - he didn't. If he gets sick he will stop - he didn't. If I reward him for not drinking he will stop - he didn't. If I threaten to leave he will stop - he didn't.
I fought Al Anon hard - I did not want to go though it was repeatedly suggested here. It seemed like I was being punished - I wasn't the drunk, why do I have to go? Well- it saved me. That and SR. My husband did end his relapse and we are better as a couple because of me working on my codependency and enabling, and I now have the tools moving forward should he relapse again which is always a possibility. I hope you will consider it.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 7
Thanks to all of you for your thoughts an insight. I think I am getting a better understanding of the problem and how to deal with it from all of you and by reading more posts on SR. I will probably give Al Anon a try at some point, but not just yet. I think I still need some time to get my head around this before I go for it. I have looked up where local meetings are held so when I decide, I know where to go.
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