13th stepping
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: east coast
Posts: 1,711
13th stepping
Hi all,
For those who don't know, 13th stepping is when a person with some "good time" in sobriety (and in AA), preys upon newcomers dating wise. Since being in the rooms, I have come across a few men who were obviously out for one thing. Then there are others who are not so "obvious". They talk a great recovery, seem to have your best interests at heart and manipulate their way in. They start out as a friend but the red flags start waving quite quickly. This has recently happened to me and I want to give a warning to all newcomers. I should have listened when they say "girls on one side and boys on the other". No matter how much older, younger or even profession (13th steppers come from all walks) as those in "respected" positions can't even be trusted. As an admittedly naive person just dealing with so many emotions in early sobriety, it was hard for me to say "NO" assertively at first because I didn't "want to be mean". Now I am left with this person overtly trying to guilt me into unhealthy conversations. I have discussed all of this w my sponser and I will be okay with handling it now. But please please please, listen to the women (and men) in AA who say to not give your number (for any reason) to a member of the opposite sex. If they really respect you and want to be your friend they will understand and just chat with you at the meetings.
For those who don't know, 13th stepping is when a person with some "good time" in sobriety (and in AA), preys upon newcomers dating wise. Since being in the rooms, I have come across a few men who were obviously out for one thing. Then there are others who are not so "obvious". They talk a great recovery, seem to have your best interests at heart and manipulate their way in. They start out as a friend but the red flags start waving quite quickly. This has recently happened to me and I want to give a warning to all newcomers. I should have listened when they say "girls on one side and boys on the other". No matter how much older, younger or even profession (13th steppers come from all walks) as those in "respected" positions can't even be trusted. As an admittedly naive person just dealing with so many emotions in early sobriety, it was hard for me to say "NO" assertively at first because I didn't "want to be mean". Now I am left with this person overtly trying to guilt me into unhealthy conversations. I have discussed all of this w my sponser and I will be okay with handling it now. But please please please, listen to the women (and men) in AA who say to not give your number (for any reason) to a member of the opposite sex. If they really respect you and want to be your friend they will understand and just chat with you at the meetings.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Between Meetings
Posts: 8,997
AA is not a museum of perfect people Quit...Use your judgement like anywhere else. I was told not to date anyone my first year...And I'm a guy. Also good advice. I've seen some pretty bad results of people that didn't listen to that one either. Keep on keeping on Quit!
But yes, I agree with the above, it's just the same as in the real world. People are still people Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: east coast
Posts: 1,711
"Museum of perfect people" I like that lol and I know I should've used my better judgement earlier in...I realized things were "off" when he texted me 10 times the day after we exchanged numbers. Well midlife I meant 13th step in a negative way but sounds like you had a different situation..like you said people are still people!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 104
This I have observed...I purposely chose all women groups...I don't have anything against mixed groups. In my IOP, there was a guy who was super funny and nice to everyone. In small group, he took a liking to one of the girls. They went out after group one night and had drinks (not their DOC) then this led to her going and taking out money to buy cocaine. She didn't use but slept with him. She told the counselor right away the next session. This person got my phone and texted me about working for some extra cash at my house. I put him off and now I realize my gut was right. Later on, after he was gone, I heard he had asked several in our group for pills.
I was also on the receiving end. I called a person from my group to see how he was doing. His wife called me back and told me he went crazy and was back in rehab. She said she called me because he had an inappropriate relation from group. I apologized.
I was also on the receiving end. I called a person from my group to see how he was doing. His wife called me back and told me he went crazy and was back in rehab. She said she called me because he had an inappropriate relation from group. I apologized.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,796
10 messages? Geez. It seems to me like some of these "13th steppers" have substituted one addiction with another (or addictive behavior, anyway). What's sad is that these 13th steppers know that vulnerable newcomers will look up to them because of their "sober time" and they take advantage of that.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sunny Florida
Posts: 304
Not to be mean at all but I wouldn't give my number to anyone of the opposite sex..in any area of life..unless I were interested in dating.. just not a good idea in my book.Might sound old fashioned but some things never change.
Trudger of Happy Destiny
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 1,918
I want to make it clear that AA is NOT about this. Yes, unfortunately there are some sick people in the rooms. But there are definitely more helpful people than not. This is a sad situation, but it definitely happens in all forms of recovery. Just look at the predator warnings on this site, even.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Illinois
Posts: 397
I have seen some pretty amazing and bold moves by people "in recovery." We have to watch out for our own and ourselves. People are people, as someone said, but I have to think that the sickness-per-square-foot is at least a bit higher in recovery rooms than the general pop. Beware. Slightly OT, but what I need in recovery is encouragement and direction from experienced men who have long term sobriety. That doesn't tend to be what people in my demographic have, and now I see some of my own mistakes. If I call someone too much like me, I want company, not direction.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canada. About as far south as you can get
Posts: 4,768
I remember early on when I told my sponsor that I didn't think one of the guys was being very nice.
My sponsor told me something at that time that has really helped me a lot in my day-to-day dealings with folks in AA.
He said: "Remember that the AA Clubroom is filled with the biggest bunch of juvenile, self-serving, underhanded, back stabbing, lying, thieving cutthroat bunch of humanity that you could find in the area.... but they are trying to get better".
All the best.
Bob R
My sponsor told me something at that time that has really helped me a lot in my day-to-day dealings with folks in AA.
He said: "Remember that the AA Clubroom is filled with the biggest bunch of juvenile, self-serving, underhanded, back stabbing, lying, thieving cutthroat bunch of humanity that you could find in the area.... but they are trying to get better".
All the best.
Bob R
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
Agreed that sick people are everywhere, but newcomers are especially vulnerable and predators know that. That makes it a slightly different dynamic than just your run-of-the-mill skeeve creepin' on a random girl. (or vice versa, or even same sex)
Powerless over Alcohol
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Trudging the Road to Happy Destiny!
Posts: 4,018
I would also like to share that this is what the 13 step has turned into meaning..
But not the orginal meaning. The 13 th step is taking the final step into sobriety for eternity.
But not the orginal meaning. The 13 th step is taking the final step into sobriety for eternity.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: west coast.
Posts: 52
Good post on a good topic. Fortunately, I have pretty darn good 'creep antennae' warning system..
No phone numbers, no emails, not even what part of town and I take a circuitous way of returning home. Usually stop at a mall for a coffee before going home.
No phone numbers, no emails, not even what part of town and I take a circuitous way of returning home. Usually stop at a mall for a coffee before going home.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 346
I try to exercise judgment and suss out each individual-not the soapbox kind, but I had something like this happen recently. I met a guy at a meeting I go to every Wednesday and at 5 months of sobriety, he asked me out. I believe he's been in the rooms for at least 18 months. I thought it was a bit cheeky considering I was new, so I set that boundary and said no thanks, not ready. He kept asking me out for coffee and hung around after my home group a couple of weeks ago, knowing-or should I say, made it clear-that I highly doubted I could make it as I had a uni assignment to write. He hung around after the meeting and asked "so where are we going for coffee?". I said again I had stuff to do. Could he give me a lift home? No thanks.
Spoke to my home group Secretary and was told this "wasn't the first time". Had a bit of a paradigm shift, set another boundary after chatting with my sponsor. I received a really reactive text, open slather about my recovery-all appeared to be wounded ego, so I could let it go pretty easily. One of my best mates is a guy & he's also in the fellowship. We have a brother/sister type relationship and I love him to bits. Thankfully, no boundary has even had to be set because communication has always been very clear
Xx
Spoke to my home group Secretary and was told this "wasn't the first time". Had a bit of a paradigm shift, set another boundary after chatting with my sponsor. I received a really reactive text, open slather about my recovery-all appeared to be wounded ego, so I could let it go pretty easily. One of my best mates is a guy & he's also in the fellowship. We have a brother/sister type relationship and I love him to bits. Thankfully, no boundary has even had to be set because communication has always been very clear
Xx
Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 249
The advice NOT to get involved in any dating-type relationship the first year in recovery is sound! We're so fragile at that time, so uncertain, so vulnerable. Many of us crave reassurance and love and support, and someone we can trust. Those in recovery seem like the best option, we're opening up to them, them to us...the whole relationship is so seemingly perfect.
The first year in recovery is a critical time to concentrate on getting your own life straight. Focus on yourself, not on something so complicated as a relationship. I honestly do not think one is in a sound state of mind that first year, certainly not in a place to take on the responsibility of a relationship.
Get yourself healthy first, so you can eventually have a healthy relationship.
She says in retrospect.
The first year in recovery is a critical time to concentrate on getting your own life straight. Focus on yourself, not on something so complicated as a relationship. I honestly do not think one is in a sound state of mind that first year, certainly not in a place to take on the responsibility of a relationship.
Get yourself healthy first, so you can eventually have a healthy relationship.
She says in retrospect.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SE and then South some more
Posts: 2,648
As far as I'm concerned, 13 steppers are predators, really. They know better and do it anyway. I stayed our of any relationship for over three years at the beginning of my sobriety. You need to be focusing on yourself, just like they should be. Grrrr!!! Makes my blood boil. 
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SE and then South some more
Posts: 2,648
Originally Posted by Zebra1275 
I heard a guy talk about finding a female companion in AA. He said that "the odds are good, but the goods are odd." 
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Des Moines IA
Posts: 377
It's said and practiced in good groups..."Men with men, women with women". Common for the men with time to step in when a stranger to the group is conversing with a women after the meeting, and the same is done by the women.
In weak groups it may be mentioned as it's part of the talk, but not reinforced with actions.
Unless it's a principle that the group adheres to instead of turning a blind eye to it, it's easy for advantage to be taken with bad results ensuing. Group members can either act or share the responsibility for how it almost always goes.
In larger communities weak groups develop a poor reputation resulting from their inaction in important areas like this and the weak message that results, but the new people haven't a clue going into those groups.
Looking for a serious undertone to the group, instead of an anything goes singles bar atmosphere is a good clue for searching for a good group. And there are women's only meetings that are great starting places for vulnerable women, or those with concerns.
In weak groups it may be mentioned as it's part of the talk, but not reinforced with actions.
Unless it's a principle that the group adheres to instead of turning a blind eye to it, it's easy for advantage to be taken with bad results ensuing. Group members can either act or share the responsibility for how it almost always goes.
In larger communities weak groups develop a poor reputation resulting from their inaction in important areas like this and the weak message that results, but the new people haven't a clue going into those groups.
Looking for a serious undertone to the group, instead of an anything goes singles bar atmosphere is a good clue for searching for a good group. And there are women's only meetings that are great starting places for vulnerable women, or those with concerns.
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