An opportunity, maybe?
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 22
An opportunity, maybe?
I've read a little here before but could use some feedback.
My brother is an alcoholic. I discovered this just over 2 years ago when he had admitted himself into a rehab center. This only occurred because his wife and my mother confronted him about his drinking. I live a few hundred miles away and was simply clueless. It's been a rough 2 + years.
He is a very highly driven, very intelligent, strong willed 'Type-A" person who has accomplished a lot in his life. His drinking issues apparently go back a good 10 years, likely much more. My Dad passed away 3 years ago, and I think that's when he really started to spiral downward. He's become a compulsive liar, a master manipulator, a very angry person, and all of that is amplified by extraordinary amounts when he drinks. He doesn't remember any of the hurt he's caused others, and therefore doesn't really accept the seriousness of his actions.
I'm the older less-successful brother. He confides in me on occasion, but in truth I don't think I quite measure up to his standards and we don't see eye to eye on much, but we get along well. I've tried very hard to be supportive through this all. I try to be honest without being personally critical. I don't condone and refuse to enable, I call him on his lies, but I remain open to talk about anything he's willing to discuss. I'm no saint, I had my years of over-indulgence. But his drinking comes from a different place, from depression mostly. And when he drinks, he drinks it all.
Before admitting himself into Rehab he had at least one DUI. The day he got out of Rehab he got another, then another stint in Rehab, then another DUI. The day he got the ankle bracelet monitor off from his first DUI he got another - there were 4 or 5 total. His typical blood alcohol was well over .3 when he got busted.
He put himself in the hospital a couple times about 4 months ago, vomiting blood. He told me not long after that he had drank 2 liters of gin the last of those times. I believe it really did scare him, but it wasn't scary enough. He's been on house arrest for 3 months and I just found out today that he's back in the hospital, just 5 days after he finished that sentence. His 14 year old daughter found him vomiting massive amounts of blood around midnight. I don't know the circumstances yet, but I do know he had been drinking. They had to give him a 2 unit transfusion this time around.
He is facing a 9 month work release sentence starting in less than a week. I know the pressure and anxiety of that has to be weighing heavily on his mind, I know his family life is extremely strained if not over, I know quitting is an enormous challenge for anyone who has to - but with all the bottoms he's hit, I just don't think he's decided to quit, to take responsibility for his actions or is willing to reach out for real help. Yes, he's been going to AA again the past few months, finally, but still he's mostly mad at the world, the police, the court system, and mad at MADD. I hate I feel this way but I'm honestly glad he's facing 9 months of being monitored by the court system again. I'm hoping 9 months is long enough away from the booze he'll have some revelation, but given his history I am unfortunately not very hopeful any more. I feel pretty confident he'll do ok as long as he's supervised, that seems to give him structure and he's able to fudge his way through most anything if he sees an end and benefit to doing so. But as soon as the reigns come off, he loses it. I am worried sick that the day this sentence is over he'll be right back where he is once again. Each bottom is worse, each takes a larger toll on his health, his family (my family) and especially on my Mom.
It just seems to me there is an opportunity here. I think he'll stay sober these 9 months, but I have no idea how to reach him, how to convince him to prepare for the day he's not under supervision. He admits he has a problem, states he's an alcoholic, says he doesn't want to be like this but his actions say otherwise. Is there anything I and my family can do to help him reach a healthy mindset while he's sober and thinking more clearly? I know he has to do this for himself and we can't do it for him, but I really fear he's not going to be with us much longer, and I don't want to bury my little brother.
My brother is an alcoholic. I discovered this just over 2 years ago when he had admitted himself into a rehab center. This only occurred because his wife and my mother confronted him about his drinking. I live a few hundred miles away and was simply clueless. It's been a rough 2 + years.
He is a very highly driven, very intelligent, strong willed 'Type-A" person who has accomplished a lot in his life. His drinking issues apparently go back a good 10 years, likely much more. My Dad passed away 3 years ago, and I think that's when he really started to spiral downward. He's become a compulsive liar, a master manipulator, a very angry person, and all of that is amplified by extraordinary amounts when he drinks. He doesn't remember any of the hurt he's caused others, and therefore doesn't really accept the seriousness of his actions.
I'm the older less-successful brother. He confides in me on occasion, but in truth I don't think I quite measure up to his standards and we don't see eye to eye on much, but we get along well. I've tried very hard to be supportive through this all. I try to be honest without being personally critical. I don't condone and refuse to enable, I call him on his lies, but I remain open to talk about anything he's willing to discuss. I'm no saint, I had my years of over-indulgence. But his drinking comes from a different place, from depression mostly. And when he drinks, he drinks it all.
Before admitting himself into Rehab he had at least one DUI. The day he got out of Rehab he got another, then another stint in Rehab, then another DUI. The day he got the ankle bracelet monitor off from his first DUI he got another - there were 4 or 5 total. His typical blood alcohol was well over .3 when he got busted.
He put himself in the hospital a couple times about 4 months ago, vomiting blood. He told me not long after that he had drank 2 liters of gin the last of those times. I believe it really did scare him, but it wasn't scary enough. He's been on house arrest for 3 months and I just found out today that he's back in the hospital, just 5 days after he finished that sentence. His 14 year old daughter found him vomiting massive amounts of blood around midnight. I don't know the circumstances yet, but I do know he had been drinking. They had to give him a 2 unit transfusion this time around.
He is facing a 9 month work release sentence starting in less than a week. I know the pressure and anxiety of that has to be weighing heavily on his mind, I know his family life is extremely strained if not over, I know quitting is an enormous challenge for anyone who has to - but with all the bottoms he's hit, I just don't think he's decided to quit, to take responsibility for his actions or is willing to reach out for real help. Yes, he's been going to AA again the past few months, finally, but still he's mostly mad at the world, the police, the court system, and mad at MADD. I hate I feel this way but I'm honestly glad he's facing 9 months of being monitored by the court system again. I'm hoping 9 months is long enough away from the booze he'll have some revelation, but given his history I am unfortunately not very hopeful any more. I feel pretty confident he'll do ok as long as he's supervised, that seems to give him structure and he's able to fudge his way through most anything if he sees an end and benefit to doing so. But as soon as the reigns come off, he loses it. I am worried sick that the day this sentence is over he'll be right back where he is once again. Each bottom is worse, each takes a larger toll on his health, his family (my family) and especially on my Mom.
It just seems to me there is an opportunity here. I think he'll stay sober these 9 months, but I have no idea how to reach him, how to convince him to prepare for the day he's not under supervision. He admits he has a problem, states he's an alcoholic, says he doesn't want to be like this but his actions say otherwise. Is there anything I and my family can do to help him reach a healthy mindset while he's sober and thinking more clearly? I know he has to do this for himself and we can't do it for him, but I really fear he's not going to be with us much longer, and I don't want to bury my little brother.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
Oh my, I am worried for the 14 year old. Does he have primary custody? How is she handling all this?
Your brother is like most A's in that it appears that if the heat is on or he needs to he can stop drinking... he just can't or won't stay sober and picks up again. Sadly, if he has not true desire to break up with alcohol for good and do whatever it takes every minute he does not have a good prognosis.
And no one can do it for him or make him. Just does not work. He must want it himself. In AA ... does he have a strong sponsor? Was he working on the steps? Or just attending occasional meetings? If there wasn't a lot of energy and dedication going into finding the solution through a authentic spiritual program a cat like your brother is going to continue to find himself in serious trouble.
There are some great residential programs that are long term... like 9 months. Maybe he would consider that after he gets off work release?
I don't know what else to say... so sad. Hopefully he works through his anger and denial and gets committed to a serious stab at good recovery program.
Your brother is like most A's in that it appears that if the heat is on or he needs to he can stop drinking... he just can't or won't stay sober and picks up again. Sadly, if he has not true desire to break up with alcohol for good and do whatever it takes every minute he does not have a good prognosis.
And no one can do it for him or make him. Just does not work. He must want it himself. In AA ... does he have a strong sponsor? Was he working on the steps? Or just attending occasional meetings? If there wasn't a lot of energy and dedication going into finding the solution through a authentic spiritual program a cat like your brother is going to continue to find himself in serious trouble.
There are some great residential programs that are long term... like 9 months. Maybe he would consider that after he gets off work release?
I don't know what else to say... so sad. Hopefully he works through his anger and denial and gets committed to a serious stab at good recovery program.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 22
Thanks for the response Hopeworks,
I just spoke with my Mom, she's doing better at accepting this than I am right now.
The marriage is still legally intact and he won't get custody with his record. I don't know how his daughter is doing tonight, but she's gotten pretty good at writing him off over the past 2 years. It's sad. He's got 3 girls and though his wife has remained with him (pretty hard to replace his income) the relationship has been ... on the chilly side to say the least. She tolerates him as long as he's sober, goes through the motions, but her heart hasn't been in it for a long time. I think the marriage has been strained for a long time before I knew there were problems. He's never been violent, is usually passive though has been verbally abusive to his wife a couple times ... really they just had a couple fights where names were called.
He's just so angry, at everything. Rants about politics, neighbors, his supervisor and coworkers.
No effort in AA. No sponsor. He's never committed. To a degree he frankly looked down at the local group as below him, but liked the one he has been attending as they were all very successful professional people.
I know I'm just hoping beyond hope. I see him drinking till that good job is gone (amazing it's still there but he has skills), the family is pretty much over though I don't know if she'll leave the house and he refuses to, then one day he'll die. This just isn't going to end well.
I just spoke with my Mom, she's doing better at accepting this than I am right now.
The marriage is still legally intact and he won't get custody with his record. I don't know how his daughter is doing tonight, but she's gotten pretty good at writing him off over the past 2 years. It's sad. He's got 3 girls and though his wife has remained with him (pretty hard to replace his income) the relationship has been ... on the chilly side to say the least. She tolerates him as long as he's sober, goes through the motions, but her heart hasn't been in it for a long time. I think the marriage has been strained for a long time before I knew there were problems. He's never been violent, is usually passive though has been verbally abusive to his wife a couple times ... really they just had a couple fights where names were called.
He's just so angry, at everything. Rants about politics, neighbors, his supervisor and coworkers.
No effort in AA. No sponsor. He's never committed. To a degree he frankly looked down at the local group as below him, but liked the one he has been attending as they were all very successful professional people.
I know I'm just hoping beyond hope. I see him drinking till that good job is gone (amazing it's still there but he has skills), the family is pretty much over though I don't know if she'll leave the house and he refuses to, then one day he'll die. This just isn't going to end well.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: new moon road
Posts: 1,545
"No effort in AA."
Has anyone in your family sought counseling or Al-Anon meetings in an effort to recover from the devastating effects of your brother's alcoholism? I have witnessed families absolutely thick with alcoholism's effects and generation after generation continue the insanity of bad relationship choices, poor self-care, escape through compulsive behaviors of all possible kinds, and they have baby after baby in these families and the whole toxic circus of pain continues on. And no one--no one--ever considers that seeking professional help might be a good idea. They just spin and stay crazy.
Your brother is living his life. Everyone in the family perhaps thinks that if he would just stop drinking, work a program, and live a sober upright life, everyone would feel so much better and be well again.
But those who understand the disease of addiction will tell you that the family itself is quite ill, perhaps going back decades and generations, and that there are patterns of behavior and thinking which loop endlessly until someone decides to step outside that loop and get well. When one person in the family starts recovery, things can shift. If no one enters recovery, it is pretty much inevitable that the core pain everyone is carrying in his or her gut will find an outlet in all the usual places: relationships, emotional and mental and physical illnesses, problems at work, problems at school.
It may seem your brother is the problem. But this is so much bigger than just his inability to get sober. Your family is inside the stomach of the beast.
If you would like to better understand alcoholism, you can read the AA Big Book online (chapters 2 and 3 especially) at Big Book Online Fourth Edition. It may help you better understand the powerlessness of family members, law enforcers, bosses and debt collectors to talk a man out of drinking. Alcoholism is a disease which causes someone to drink against his will. In the times previous to the founding of AA in the late 1930's, alcoholics were considered hopeless cases. That has changed. But the facts of the compulsion have not. We always hope the latest stint in jail or the hospital will bring an end to the drinking. Your hope for the 90 days of "control" is a very familiar way of thinking to all of us here. But alcoholics know very well, according to the Big Book, that locking them up never cures them. For most, it just gives the body a chance to regroup before the next big drunk.
Your brother may die of the disease soon. Or he may go on another 20 years drinking. Or he may get sober next week and stay that way for decades.
But no matter what his path is, there is still the question for you and all who love him: will you decide to get well, whether he does or not?
Has anyone in your family sought counseling or Al-Anon meetings in an effort to recover from the devastating effects of your brother's alcoholism? I have witnessed families absolutely thick with alcoholism's effects and generation after generation continue the insanity of bad relationship choices, poor self-care, escape through compulsive behaviors of all possible kinds, and they have baby after baby in these families and the whole toxic circus of pain continues on. And no one--no one--ever considers that seeking professional help might be a good idea. They just spin and stay crazy.
Your brother is living his life. Everyone in the family perhaps thinks that if he would just stop drinking, work a program, and live a sober upright life, everyone would feel so much better and be well again.
But those who understand the disease of addiction will tell you that the family itself is quite ill, perhaps going back decades and generations, and that there are patterns of behavior and thinking which loop endlessly until someone decides to step outside that loop and get well. When one person in the family starts recovery, things can shift. If no one enters recovery, it is pretty much inevitable that the core pain everyone is carrying in his or her gut will find an outlet in all the usual places: relationships, emotional and mental and physical illnesses, problems at work, problems at school.
It may seem your brother is the problem. But this is so much bigger than just his inability to get sober. Your family is inside the stomach of the beast.
If you would like to better understand alcoholism, you can read the AA Big Book online (chapters 2 and 3 especially) at Big Book Online Fourth Edition. It may help you better understand the powerlessness of family members, law enforcers, bosses and debt collectors to talk a man out of drinking. Alcoholism is a disease which causes someone to drink against his will. In the times previous to the founding of AA in the late 1930's, alcoholics were considered hopeless cases. That has changed. But the facts of the compulsion have not. We always hope the latest stint in jail or the hospital will bring an end to the drinking. Your hope for the 90 days of "control" is a very familiar way of thinking to all of us here. But alcoholics know very well, according to the Big Book, that locking them up never cures them. For most, it just gives the body a chance to regroup before the next big drunk.
Your brother may die of the disease soon. Or he may go on another 20 years drinking. Or he may get sober next week and stay that way for decades.
But no matter what his path is, there is still the question for you and all who love him: will you decide to get well, whether he does or not?
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 22
I’m quite worried about my nieces and where this may lead them. My sister-in-law "doesn’t believe" in AA or Al-Anon and doesn't hesitate to share that opinion. Her best friend married an alcoholic that ‘did it himself’ … ‘just quit drinking’ and she has adopted her friend’s opinion that AA is nothing but a pity party. She refused to have any kind of counseling, marriage or otherwise. She went to Al-Anon a couple times and it infuriated her.
I do know a good change has come over their middle girl recently, I don’t know what brought it on but she’s opened up a lot, I heard rumor of possible counseling, but I don’t know that for sure. I worry a lot about the oldest, the one who found him vomiting last night.
My Mom has attended a number of Al-Anon meetings though I don’t believe she is at the moment. I’m sure she will soon.
I have not, nor has my sister. I have attended a few AA meetings with my brother and made one feeble attempt to attend an Al-Anon meeting that I apparently missed. I have read a couple chapters of the Big Book, and will read chapters 2 & 3 as you suggest.
I’ve been most able to be detached because of my physical distance from all the action. All the drama is happening somewhere else. I knew inside this was going to happen - considered it several times, it fits his pattern completely and I knew it was a distinct possibility he’d head right back to the bottle. But I got caught up in hope this time and it kind of blindsided me.
I do know a good change has come over their middle girl recently, I don’t know what brought it on but she’s opened up a lot, I heard rumor of possible counseling, but I don’t know that for sure. I worry a lot about the oldest, the one who found him vomiting last night.
My Mom has attended a number of Al-Anon meetings though I don’t believe she is at the moment. I’m sure she will soon.
I have not, nor has my sister. I have attended a few AA meetings with my brother and made one feeble attempt to attend an Al-Anon meeting that I apparently missed. I have read a couple chapters of the Big Book, and will read chapters 2 & 3 as you suggest.
I’ve been most able to be detached because of my physical distance from all the action. All the drama is happening somewhere else. I knew inside this was going to happen - considered it several times, it fits his pattern completely and I knew it was a distinct possibility he’d head right back to the bottle. But I got caught up in hope this time and it kind of blindsided me.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: northeast
Posts: 468
Is his still working and earning a high income? That's amazing given the depths of his alcoholism.
I'm so sorry. My 22 year old son is an alcoholic and posts like this scare the crap out of me. I would say my son underachieves given his intelligence- so there are so many differences among alcoholics. My son also got a DUI and then hasn't ever driven again. Its astounding your brothers indifference to others lives by continuing to drink and drive. I'm surprised his legal consequences aren't worse.
I hate to be a downer but agree with others that there is really nothing you can do. And, he'll either quit or he won't. He's had a lot of bad things happen- hopefully he'll finally embrace sobriety. I'm very worried about his health- vomiting those amounts of blood- he could have done permanent damage to his esophagus and stomach.
Alcoholism and addiction are so devastating to families. I hope everyone else can start working on themselves getting healthy.
I'm so sorry. My 22 year old son is an alcoholic and posts like this scare the crap out of me. I would say my son underachieves given his intelligence- so there are so many differences among alcoholics. My son also got a DUI and then hasn't ever driven again. Its astounding your brothers indifference to others lives by continuing to drink and drive. I'm surprised his legal consequences aren't worse.
I hate to be a downer but agree with others that there is really nothing you can do. And, he'll either quit or he won't. He's had a lot of bad things happen- hopefully he'll finally embrace sobriety. I'm very worried about his health- vomiting those amounts of blood- he could have done permanent damage to his esophagus and stomach.
Alcoholism and addiction are so devastating to families. I hope everyone else can start working on themselves getting healthy.
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
Rehab is geography, and frankly, so is jail. BUT, some scenery is more convincing than others! My AH finally realized the purpose of treatment in a great, science-based rehab, but when they suggested he get follow up treatment, he said, "Nope! I can do this on my own!" And lo, he couldn't.
Hopeworks is right, there's not a lot you can do. He sounds like he has a lot of tools at his disposal and doesn't want to use them. Al-Anon and counseling can help you figure out how to stop enabling and start living, and possibly heal some of your old wounds. It's sad that your AB's wife is so closed off to getting help. A lot of us found that we couldn't see through the fog and confusion of addiction without having the perspective of other friends and family, which led us here and to face-to-face meetings.
Use these boards often. We, uh, love to help.
Hopeworks is right, there's not a lot you can do. He sounds like he has a lot of tools at his disposal and doesn't want to use them. Al-Anon and counseling can help you figure out how to stop enabling and start living, and possibly heal some of your old wounds. It's sad that your AB's wife is so closed off to getting help. A lot of us found that we couldn't see through the fog and confusion of addiction without having the perspective of other friends and family, which led us here and to face-to-face meetings.
Use these boards often. We, uh, love to help.
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