BrokenHeartWife

For awhile, AH was committed to never drinking again.

Now, he's saying that he should be permitted to occasionally have a glass of wine or two.

I think he thinks this way for a few reasons:

1) he thinks his alcoholism isn't as "bad" as other people's since he hasn't been a life-long A and he wasn't one who would drink all day long.

2) he thinks that if he's having trouble falling asleep that he should be allowed to have a glass of wine or two to help him relax.

I think this is a bad idea for a few reasons (other than the obvious that an A should never drink again):

1) As an A, his brain has changed (where do I get info about that), so he can't just turn back the clocks and drink in moderation like a normal person.

2) it will start out as an occasional thing, but quickly progress into daily and excessive amounts.

Another thing, is that he doesn't drink like a normal person. He doesn't "sip" a drink, he drinks fast....which I think is a hallmark of many A's. They don't drink to enjoy the drink. They drink fast to get the effect. this was his main bad habit. He wouldn't be able to get to sleep, so he'd chug hard alcohol to knock himself out.

3) he is over-medicating himself, which I think is causing him to have trouble falling asleep ...too much caffeine, too much Adderall, etc.

4) He often sleeps in, so he's not taking these meds until later in the day so that's why he still wired when it's bedtime.


Today, he didn't have any Adderall (ran out), so he's not all wired today. However, if I point that out, he'll refuse to admit that. he loves his Adderall. While it may help with his ADD/ADHD, I think a lower dose would do the trick without keeping him wired late into the night.


While I know I can't control what he does, I do think if I had a logical and calm response, he might listen. Also, if there was something I could show him that proves that his brain has changed so he can't 'go back' to a normal person's drinking habits. This won't be an argument. I won't "go there". I just want to calmly discuss this with him.

EmmyG

My AH has pulled this one a few times. Everything will be going great, then those little comments creep in..."It's not a big deal, just a couple glasses of wine?" The last time he said he should be able to have two beers at dinner when we had friends over, I watched in horror as "two" were gone in five minutes and I lost count after 12. I see now that he is just lying to himself, talking himself into thinking it's okay.

BoxinRotz

My husband has danced this dance before. It never turned out the way he said it would and I knew it wouldn't. One drink is never enough for my husband and when he finds himself in a bottle... well, I can just forget about it. It's a losing battle on all fronts.

Hopeworks

My XA had a glass of wine and next thing you knew he was in Las Vegas for 3 months, then jail in a couple of other states for alcohol related misdemeanors. Woke up with his car spinning out and drove drunk on a rim and then the sparks caught the car on fire. No insurance of course and the mercedes convertible was a charred mess.

But a glass of wine? Just one glass was OK or so he thought...

He is starting over again... In a few days he gets his 60 day chip. Says no alcohol... ever.

Sometimes they just have to do more alcohol research before they get a clue.

PohsFriend

Sigh. Does he go to AA? Every relapse story seems to start with drinking like a 'normal person'.

But normal people don't play Russian roulette do they? My wife hate same thoughts a couple times before we had any clue what alcohol was, back then we believed she drank way too much due to depression, it waste other way around.

After she self detoxed and spent three weeks in the hospital due to a siezure and heart attack (uhm, yeah - not a subtle clue that alcohol not helping) she white knuckles it for a few months and then figured she could drink like a 'normal' person but wanted me with her in case she wanted to keep going. Don't laugh - we didn't understand.

First time? Split a bottle of wine, no problems.
Second time a week later? Hallucinations, completely came unglued and started another round of circling the drain which took 3-4 months due to my dumb ass enabling and 'helping'.

Just curious - would he be willing to have a discussion with a doctor who understands addiction well about whether he can drink like a normal person?

I wish I could have the perfect tab I had for twenty years before that little melanoma thing and sunbathe like normal people because I just really enjoy the sun... Thing is, that sumbitch tried to kill my German-Irish Caucasian ass do I wear SPF 100 and a swimshirt because I am not a normal person.

I can't sunbathe
Diabetics can't eat candy all day
Alcoholics can't drink
White men can't jump...

Life ain't fair but it beats the hell out of death ;-)

Sorry you are having to reason with the alcoholic voice, it is a hardheaded, sneaky, cunning and baffling debater. Hang in there, try not to club him over the head -it's Christmas

LoveMeNow

There is a great thread on SR posted by EternalQ - seems many addicts/alcoholics have the same thinking at times. I pray he fights his way through it.

(Also, others w/ addictions have it too, I quit smoking for a year and thought I could just have one...it was a lie. )

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...you-today.html

Recovering2

It's truly not possible to calmly discuss this with him. Nothing you say is going to matter if he's not ready to hear it. Step 1: "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable." Until he gets that nothing you say or do will make a difference. Sadly, they often have to go through this "control" crap before they realize the disease has them in its grip. Please take care of yourself.

thislonelygirl

Sometimes the best way to get to sleep is the healthy way. Work out! (Im sure after that anyone would be tired lol) read a book, take a bath/shower, eat a big meal, or the conventional lay down with no distractions in the dark with white noise and relax.
My ah (still drinking) complains of not being able to get to bed either (big fat bs!!)
How many people have the same problems...? I sometimes cant sleep...heck family members I know do the same and do they drink? No ...actually not at all.
They do other things to get to bed. If its that big of a problem see a sleep doctor but drinking when you shouldnt to get to sleep is ridiculous and an excuse .
Also I would like to say that it seems to be common for alcoholics to become sober to think that itll be different and they can handle it. One of the reasons for relapse.
They never do. They cant. They either fall or they get back up and learn thhey can never drink again.
I dont know which your husband is....perhapse asking him to speak to others in aa so he can fully understand this .

caligirl71

My AH thinks the same...he got a DUI a couple months ago and swore up and down he was done drinking. Promised me and my kids. Now he is saying he should be "allowed" to have a couple beers a day and a few on the weekend. I know no matter what I say he is going to do what he wants. So for now I sit and wait. Tonight he finished up a 12 pack because it's a "special occasion". Whatever...this is pure craziness..!!

lillamy

Allowed to? Who does he think is stopping him? Sure he's allowed to drink any way he wants to. That's his choice. Don't let him put the decision on you.

BrokenHeartWife

I don't think he meant it that way. He's not saying that I'm making the decision. I think he's saying that he's "not as bad as others, so he should give himself permission...."


I think one problem is that he hasn't been to an AA meeting in about 2 weeks. He lost his sponsor a few weeks after he came back home (sponsor was in another state where he was in rehab).

I thing the point that he really hasn't accepted Step 1 is right. He doesn't yet believe that he's powerless over alcohol.

redatlanta

Oh yes - been there with this theory of "I will stop BUT I want to leave the door open for a drink if I want one, not saying I will, but if I do I should be able to its ok to have just one, and if I have just one, or maybe 2 - and then I stop I am not an alcoholic and you shouldn't have a problem with it".

My response to that was - "I DO NOT agree with you - you cannot convince me its ok. You do what you want but understand that this is all on you. When, not IF, it blows up in your face don't come to me to help, encourage, or to clean up YOUR mess. Don't ask me to drink with you I won't, don't ask me to pick up alcohol for you I won't. Don't justify to me why you are drinking I don't care enough to hear the BS. I'm DONE with this issue its all yours".

You might remind him that "normal" people don't chug liquor to go to sleep. They find a way to relax naturally or they go to a dr. for medication if necessary or some over the counter PM medication.

Or like many - have some sleepless nights.

Pelican

As a Recovering Alcoholic, I believe he is telling you he wants to drink.
I believe he is telling you he doesn't need your permission.
I believe he wants to convince you he has control (and himself).
I believe the statement of a glass or TWO is the alcoholic voice demanding to get a buzz on.
There is intent to get drunk in that one sentence. Maybe not the first time, maybe not the second time, but it is calling.

When I read the remainder of your post, I read it as the recovering ex-wife of an active alcoholic. It saddens me to read that you believe it is possible to have a reasonably calm discussion with him. You are calm, reasonable and sober. The conversation would be between you and his alcoholic voice, however.

I also thought I recognized a pattern of trying to justify, understand and explain his unacceptable behaviors. I may be wrong. I hope I am.

suki44883

He will have to find out on his own why he isn't allowed to have a couple of glasses of wine. Nothing we say will convince them that they just can't drink like non-alcoholics. Save your breath. He will have to find that out for himself.

Are you attending alanon meetings? I think they would help you a great deal.

PaperDolls

The first time I went to treatment I was mad as hell that I couldn't drink like a normal person. It wasn't fair and I deserved to 'relax' sometimes and damnit, I'm an adult .... and on and on ... it was my alcoholism talking to me. It does that. Honestly, most of my drinking career was spent attempting to drink like a normal person. Never succeeded. Not fair .... may be, but so what, eventually I had to face reality, get on with it, stay sober, and be happy.

I'm sure he would love for you to 'allow' it because then he can justify it .... but ultimately, he'll do what he's going to do. You have to do what you're going to do.

Love and Hugs.

Freedom1990

There is nothing logical about alcoholism, dear.

While married to my EXAH, I lost count of how many times I "thought" that if I said the right thing, he would see the light.

Cunning, baffling, and powerful...that is what you are dealing with.

My EXAH was who he was, and when I finally accepted that, I left the marriage in order to save my own sanity.

As a long-term recovering alcoholic/addict myself, I know there was no logic, no amount of calm from anyone in my life that ever made a difference in my thinking.

What are you doing for your own recovery?

Sending you hugs of support!

soberlicious

Nope. He thinks this way for one reason and one reason only. He is addicted to alcohol.

LoveMeNow

I am sorry your AH may not be done drinking yet. My husband became addicted to pain pills and I had no idea for a long time. Looking back, all the red flags were there but I was just clueless about addiction.

He finally started working on his recovery with the help of NA. He was clean for several months when his addiction started lying to him and he listened. He knew one was too many and a thousand would never be enough but decided to test it out. Despite the obvious (to me) consequences addiction has caused his life, he started to question if was really an addict. He found out, thankfully, very fast but not easily. The look of fear on his face was beyond painful to see. He also feared withdrawals again. He toughed it out and I can only pray is was a valuable learning lesson in HIS recovery.

I would be very concerned about the abuse of Adderall too. But sadly, you can not save him from himself. He has to want and need it for himself. Doesn't sound like he is there yet.

More importantly what are you doing for YOU? Nothing changes if nothing changes!!

thislonelygirl

In my perspective
Drinking is a privilege not a right.
(Might be my mothers voice there. If you cant drink responsibly you shouldnt drink)
If that "right" to drink effects those on the road etc....you lost your right to do so.
My ah too likes to justify it.....he should be allowed to drink blah blah blah...cant sleep...blah blah blah....can get to sleep.....sick...not sick. Its all a ploy. A big pain in the butt ploy.
My ah says all the excuses and reasonings to me.....I just laugh a little inside.
Sad though how boxed their perceptions are....
They tell us its a brownie and we know its really sh**.

m1k3

BrokenHeartWife, what has worked best for me is to let go the my AW's decision to drink or not drink. It's not my choice and I have no right to tell her what to do or not do. I do have the right to make up my own mind on how I choose to respond if she does choose to drink though. She chose to drink again and I chose to leave.

It is one of the huge lessons that I learned on the art of detachment. When I let go of her issue of drinking or not drinking I began to look an myself, what I wanted in a relationship and what I wanted to do with my life I was free to make choices that were healthy for me no matter what she did.

Your friend,