Whatever This Is, It Is Not Love!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 122
Whatever This Is, It Is Not Love!
I recently posted a thread on the satisfaction I received hearing the news that the new boyfriend of my XAGF that she had cheated on me with, cheated on her.
They met each other in the rehab that I was helping putting her through.
What I want to write about in this thread is what happened to me following my initial reaction of glee.
I started feeling sorry for her.
I began to feel bad for how hurt she must be now feeling.
I had been no contact with her for over two months.
And had been doing pretty well at getting my life back on track.
But now all of a sudden she was starting to once again become all consuming in my brain.
I became sad and depressed thinking about her.
I must contact her I thought.
I must let her know that in her time of pain and suffering I still love and care about her.
I must be there to show her love and comfort if she needs me.
Whenever I would mention this to a friend or family member their response was always a unanimous,
"Do not contact her!"
Even though I knew they were right the drive to reach out to her consumed my every thought.
In Al Anon we would refer to this as my disease.
Others might refer to this as codependency or a personality disorder.
But whatever term you want to use what has now become clear is that this is my addiction.
Even just hearing any news about her was like that first drink to an alcoholic.
Sure you could say that I am a nice guy so I just felt sorry for her in spite of all she had done to me.
But there is so much more to this.
As each day passed I became more and more desperate in my need to reach out to her.
She needs me I thought.
It is my job to take care of her.
It is my duty to cast aside all of my own feelings, wants and desires.
Taking care of her is all that is important!
The need and drive to contact her became overwhelming.
So like a moth into a flame, I wrote her a letter.
Letting her know that I am there for her. I love her and care about her.
She is an incredible person that can always count on me if she needs me.
Just disregarding my own sense of pride, self esteem and self worth.
But who cares?
This is not about me.
Our entire relationship was never been about me.
Yes she is an alcoholic.
But she was my alcoholic.
To love, cherish and take care of.
She was my job and my responsibility.
And I fulfilled my position with honors.
Of course she took the cheater right back.
And never bothered to reply to my letter.
So then the question becomes why?
Why the burning desire to once again offer my heart to someone who will only put a stake through it.
Because this is my sickness.
This no longer has anything to do with her.
This is all about me.
This just once again reinforced the need for me to work on myself.
To attend the meetings and work the program of Al Anon.
I will never be cured.
It will always be "progress not perfection."
If nothing else the one lesson that I will have taken away from this experience is that if everyday you walk up to someone's door
and every time you do they punch you in the face,
you certainly cannot call this love!
They met each other in the rehab that I was helping putting her through.
What I want to write about in this thread is what happened to me following my initial reaction of glee.
I started feeling sorry for her.
I began to feel bad for how hurt she must be now feeling.
I had been no contact with her for over two months.
And had been doing pretty well at getting my life back on track.
But now all of a sudden she was starting to once again become all consuming in my brain.
I became sad and depressed thinking about her.
I must contact her I thought.
I must let her know that in her time of pain and suffering I still love and care about her.
I must be there to show her love and comfort if she needs me.
Whenever I would mention this to a friend or family member their response was always a unanimous,
"Do not contact her!"
Even though I knew they were right the drive to reach out to her consumed my every thought.
In Al Anon we would refer to this as my disease.
Others might refer to this as codependency or a personality disorder.
But whatever term you want to use what has now become clear is that this is my addiction.
Even just hearing any news about her was like that first drink to an alcoholic.
Sure you could say that I am a nice guy so I just felt sorry for her in spite of all she had done to me.
But there is so much more to this.
As each day passed I became more and more desperate in my need to reach out to her.
She needs me I thought.
It is my job to take care of her.
It is my duty to cast aside all of my own feelings, wants and desires.
Taking care of her is all that is important!
The need and drive to contact her became overwhelming.
So like a moth into a flame, I wrote her a letter.
Letting her know that I am there for her. I love her and care about her.
She is an incredible person that can always count on me if she needs me.
Just disregarding my own sense of pride, self esteem and self worth.
But who cares?
This is not about me.
Our entire relationship was never been about me.
Yes she is an alcoholic.
But she was my alcoholic.
To love, cherish and take care of.
She was my job and my responsibility.
And I fulfilled my position with honors.
Of course she took the cheater right back.
And never bothered to reply to my letter.
So then the question becomes why?
Why the burning desire to once again offer my heart to someone who will only put a stake through it.
Because this is my sickness.
This no longer has anything to do with her.
This is all about me.
This just once again reinforced the need for me to work on myself.
To attend the meetings and work the program of Al Anon.
I will never be cured.
It will always be "progress not perfection."
If nothing else the one lesson that I will have taken away from this experience is that if everyday you walk up to someone's door
and every time you do they punch you in the face,
you certainly cannot call this love!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SAN FRANCISCO
Posts: 1,176
Just found this article for you:
Is It Love? Or Attachment? | Psychology Today
Sounds like you might be more attached than really in love... ?
Is It Love? Or Attachment? | Psychology Today
Sounds like you might be more attached than really in love... ?
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,452
One of the things I find so difficult to truly understand as I leave my AH after 20 years is the nature of the evil, vicious things he said and did. My AH held up prostitutes as the exemplars that would "teach" me how to be a real woman instead of the many punitive demeaning and defiling things he called me and suggested I watch porn to "fix myself". He held up his intensifying relationships with these on-line, text, videocam women as far superior to his relationship with me. He set out to, without thinking about it, emotionally pulverize me in the most intimate of ways in order to make himself feel better. I believe the equation behind that is "you can only feel good about yourself if you make the other person feel worse". Or "for someone to win, someone has to lose, and if you want to feel really good about yourself, the other guy has to lose real bad".
So, periodically, I tend to mellow out my memories, and the consequence of that is that I start to feel better about him. I start to romanticize the relationship we had, and I start to miss him. And then I start to imagine that he is feeling bad about me leaving. And then I begin to think maybe I shouldn't have left him, maybe he didn't deserve that. And then
HE DOES SOMETHING ABSOLUTELY AWFUL again. And I remember it all, as vivid as the day it happened.
For me, I would never in a lifetime treat anyone the way he treated me, so it is very very hard to comprehend who he is and who he will always have the tendency to be, unless he makes some major course changes, and he is not doing that. His behavior is foreign to me. The assumptions that underlie the relationships that he has are so diametrically opposed to mine that while I can gain some insight when the pain is fresh, I really don't grasp how and why someone could do the cruel things he did, and my insight wavers.
So while I agree with you, we can be addicted to these people, I don't think that's all it is. Perhaps if we really separate who we are from who they are, we will be able to form a more lasting, resilient concept of where their behavior springs from and what they always going to be capable of doing that we just never would imagine doing.
Maybe part of my co-dependency is that I have not been able - or willing - to see him exactly as he is. I saw him as I wanted to interpret his behavior; there has been a huge amount of pain in coming to terms with the truth of who he is (based on his actual behavior to me). Part of the pain is that I let him be that man because I could not or would not call it as it was. And that inflicted more pain on me than I would have had to bear if I had called the truth out much earlier. Perhaps he wouldn't have slid so far into depravity. Which is, now, what I believe it was.
Shakespeare said: "True compassion is ruthless".
ShootingStar1
So, periodically, I tend to mellow out my memories, and the consequence of that is that I start to feel better about him. I start to romanticize the relationship we had, and I start to miss him. And then I start to imagine that he is feeling bad about me leaving. And then I begin to think maybe I shouldn't have left him, maybe he didn't deserve that. And then
HE DOES SOMETHING ABSOLUTELY AWFUL again. And I remember it all, as vivid as the day it happened.
For me, I would never in a lifetime treat anyone the way he treated me, so it is very very hard to comprehend who he is and who he will always have the tendency to be, unless he makes some major course changes, and he is not doing that. His behavior is foreign to me. The assumptions that underlie the relationships that he has are so diametrically opposed to mine that while I can gain some insight when the pain is fresh, I really don't grasp how and why someone could do the cruel things he did, and my insight wavers.
So while I agree with you, we can be addicted to these people, I don't think that's all it is. Perhaps if we really separate who we are from who they are, we will be able to form a more lasting, resilient concept of where their behavior springs from and what they always going to be capable of doing that we just never would imagine doing.
Maybe part of my co-dependency is that I have not been able - or willing - to see him exactly as he is. I saw him as I wanted to interpret his behavior; there has been a huge amount of pain in coming to terms with the truth of who he is (based on his actual behavior to me). Part of the pain is that I let him be that man because I could not or would not call it as it was. And that inflicted more pain on me than I would have had to bear if I had called the truth out much earlier. Perhaps he wouldn't have slid so far into depravity. Which is, now, what I believe it was.
Shakespeare said: "True compassion is ruthless".
ShootingStar1
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 122
Hi ShootingStar1,
In the Al Anon book Courage To Change there is a page that I have read over and over again.
To paraphrase:
"Turning to an alcoholic for affection and support can be like going to a hardware store for bread.
While these loved ones may not meet our expectations, it is our expectations not our loved ones that have let us down."
Her behavior was fairly predictable.
My expectation that our relationship was one day bound to change for the better was my delusion.
Not hers!
I would go back to the same dry well every day hoping that this would be the day that there would finally be water in it.
Yes the term addict might simplify our behavior, but it certainly for me describes it.
When I use the example of walking up to someone's door where you
know that there is a good chance that the person on the other end of that door is going to punch you in the face,
yet you keep ringing the doorbell the word love would not seem to be the best term to use to describe your need to keep doing this.
The desire that I had to console her in her time of need almost felt like it was beyond my control to stop it.
While I was with her my actions were often times crazier then hers.
And many times even though I knew that my actions and behavior were self destructive, I could not stop myself from continuing to do them.
Then when I finally stepped back and retook control of my own life the separation from her felt less like a normal break up, and more like withdrawal.
Addiction is defined as being physically and/or mentally dependent on a substance or thing and being unable to stop without incurring adverse effects.
Whatever term that we wish to use to describe my relationship,
the one thing I know for sure is this is not the way I want to live the rest of my life.
In the Al Anon book Courage To Change there is a page that I have read over and over again.
To paraphrase:
"Turning to an alcoholic for affection and support can be like going to a hardware store for bread.
While these loved ones may not meet our expectations, it is our expectations not our loved ones that have let us down."
Her behavior was fairly predictable.
My expectation that our relationship was one day bound to change for the better was my delusion.
Not hers!
I would go back to the same dry well every day hoping that this would be the day that there would finally be water in it.
Yes the term addict might simplify our behavior, but it certainly for me describes it.
When I use the example of walking up to someone's door where you
know that there is a good chance that the person on the other end of that door is going to punch you in the face,
yet you keep ringing the doorbell the word love would not seem to be the best term to use to describe your need to keep doing this.
The desire that I had to console her in her time of need almost felt like it was beyond my control to stop it.
While I was with her my actions were often times crazier then hers.
And many times even though I knew that my actions and behavior were self destructive, I could not stop myself from continuing to do them.
Then when I finally stepped back and retook control of my own life the separation from her felt less like a normal break up, and more like withdrawal.
Addiction is defined as being physically and/or mentally dependent on a substance or thing and being unable to stop without incurring adverse effects.
Whatever term that we wish to use to describe my relationship,
the one thing I know for sure is this is not the way I want to live the rest of my life.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 588
Part of the pain is that I let him be that man because I could not or would not call it as it was. And that inflicted more pain on me than I would have had to bear if I had called the truth out much earlier. Perhaps he wouldn't have slid so far into depravity. Which is, now, what I believe it was.
I don't think you "let him be that man". He IS that man. You could not control (remember the 3C's) his "slide into depravity". You cannot own this. Just as I cannot control or own my AH's alcoholism.
If you had "called the truth" earlier it may have temporarily caused him to pause, but only to re-evalute how he would achieve his goals. It would not have changed them. He still does it with his ever-changing emails to you.
The only thing anyone can own, I believe, is the when you cease to be a victim and start being a volunteer. But even then we must be gentle with ourselves. By then we are pretty beat down and have a lot of work to do - on ourselves.
Wishing all well.
I don't think you "let him be that man". He IS that man. You could not control (remember the 3C's) his "slide into depravity". You cannot own this. Just as I cannot control or own my AH's alcoholism.
If you had "called the truth" earlier it may have temporarily caused him to pause, but only to re-evalute how he would achieve his goals. It would not have changed them. He still does it with his ever-changing emails to you.
The only thing anyone can own, I believe, is the when you cease to be a victim and start being a volunteer. But even then we must be gentle with ourselves. By then we are pretty beat down and have a lot of work to do - on ourselves.
Wishing all well.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 122
Thank you Leise,
You are so right that "no contact" extends beyond just not contacting the alcoholic.
I had been doing so well without her in my life that I figured what is the harm in hearing a little gossip about her?
But I am an addict!
So when a sober alcoholic fools them self into believing one little drink won't hurt,
just hearing some gossip about her was my one little drink.
With the fantasy of her crawling back.
An alcohol counselor said to me "you know you probably made it even easier for her to take him right back."
I said "how so?"
"Because once again you let her know that for whatever bad choice she makes in her life, she can rest assure that she will always have you to pick up the pieces."
It amazed me that with how far I have come,
how quickly I could revert right back to were I started off.
I relapsed pure and simple.
But by working my program in Al Anon I was able to recognize right away what was happening to me.
When an alcoholic relapses they go right back to day one of recovery.
Every time we relapse we must do the same.
So back to day one I go.
But this time no contact means NO CONTACT period!
You are so right that "no contact" extends beyond just not contacting the alcoholic.
I had been doing so well without her in my life that I figured what is the harm in hearing a little gossip about her?
But I am an addict!
So when a sober alcoholic fools them self into believing one little drink won't hurt,
just hearing some gossip about her was my one little drink.
With the fantasy of her crawling back.
An alcohol counselor said to me "you know you probably made it even easier for her to take him right back."
I said "how so?"
"Because once again you let her know that for whatever bad choice she makes in her life, she can rest assure that she will always have you to pick up the pieces."
It amazed me that with how far I have come,
how quickly I could revert right back to were I started off.
I relapsed pure and simple.
But by working my program in Al Anon I was able to recognize right away what was happening to me.
When an alcoholic relapses they go right back to day one of recovery.
Every time we relapse we must do the same.
So back to day one I go.
But this time no contact means NO CONTACT period!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 329
The post the topic....just made me cry! In the past I have done what soexhausted has done! I didn't do it once, I took mine back time and time again! Ending in the same destructive result! Sick Sick! I see myself in all of the painful emotions of each post! It makes me so very sad to see how I have treated myself. Don't get me wrong this is not something new just hit hard tonight! Maybe not as hard as in the past but just so much damage I have done to myself! What we permit we promote! At times I think I become more frustrated w/what I have allowed than what was done to me. Afterall, I have a responsiblity in all of this too! Its such a waste because no one should treat anyone w/such disregard and disrespect!
Sometimes you just wonder when does it go away and stop hurting! I know it gets easier bc it has but sometimes it is still hard!
Sometimes you just wonder when does it go away and stop hurting! I know it gets easier bc it has but sometimes it is still hard!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 122
Hi Sassydog,
You are being to hard on yourself.
I have made plenty of wrong choices.
I have allowed myself to be treated with little regard for my self respect and feelings.
And gone back for more over and over again.
BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN OUR FUTURE HAS TO BE DETERMINED BY OUR PAST!
It is important that we recognize the part that we do play in these destructive relationships.
That is how we keep from repeating them.
Sassydog forgive yourself for the mistakes you made in the past.
Let them go!
Allow yourself the moments of sadness. Allow yourself time to heal.
You are right. It does get easier.
Embrace today and relish the future.
You are being to hard on yourself.
I have made plenty of wrong choices.
I have allowed myself to be treated with little regard for my self respect and feelings.
And gone back for more over and over again.
BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN OUR FUTURE HAS TO BE DETERMINED BY OUR PAST!
It is important that we recognize the part that we do play in these destructive relationships.
That is how we keep from repeating them.
Sassydog forgive yourself for the mistakes you made in the past.
Let them go!
Allow yourself the moments of sadness. Allow yourself time to heal.
You are right. It does get easier.
Embrace today and relish the future.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 145
Good afternoon soexhausted,
Thank you for sharing. I can't tell you how many times during my 3 year relationship with my ex I reached out to him when I thought he "needed" me too and how each time I reached out, it was bad at first because he took his time to respond and it drove me crazy waiting and waiting. Then it was "great" again because he would run back and we would pick up exactly where we left off, then soon enough things were bad again. It really is like an addiction. It is definitely normal to relapse and make contact with an ex and considering it's the holiday season, certain emotions def. are more pronounced during this time. Glad to hear that you recognize it and are back to it. It's definitely not easy.
This past weekend I felt down and spent a major part of my weekend laying in bed sleeping to avoid thoughts. Surely, it wasn't the best decision, but I figured it's better to turn my phone off and sleep then to think and make myself cry. I had basketball tickets that I bought months ago (quite pricey) for my ex as his sobriety present. After all the relapsing and lies, I decided to take my dad, but then I couldn't do it. I knew that even just being at the basketball game would bring feelings of 'I could be here with him right now...' and I didn't want that. So, fortunately or unfortunately, I didn't go and $300 worth of basketball tickets went to waste. Oh well. BUT my happiness is more important. Something I heard in AA a lot was: with every relapse, you hit a new bottom and it becomes even harder to work yourself back up.
I saw this very much with my ex in the 3 years and the constant on and off. Whenever I start thinking about him or have the urge to contact him, I remind myself of how each time we broke up and got back together, it got worse and worse. So far I'm doing ok, but one day at a time you know? I just pray everyday to make it through today and especially through Christmas. Hang in there soexhausted!
Thank you for sharing. I can't tell you how many times during my 3 year relationship with my ex I reached out to him when I thought he "needed" me too and how each time I reached out, it was bad at first because he took his time to respond and it drove me crazy waiting and waiting. Then it was "great" again because he would run back and we would pick up exactly where we left off, then soon enough things were bad again. It really is like an addiction. It is definitely normal to relapse and make contact with an ex and considering it's the holiday season, certain emotions def. are more pronounced during this time. Glad to hear that you recognize it and are back to it. It's definitely not easy.
This past weekend I felt down and spent a major part of my weekend laying in bed sleeping to avoid thoughts. Surely, it wasn't the best decision, but I figured it's better to turn my phone off and sleep then to think and make myself cry. I had basketball tickets that I bought months ago (quite pricey) for my ex as his sobriety present. After all the relapsing and lies, I decided to take my dad, but then I couldn't do it. I knew that even just being at the basketball game would bring feelings of 'I could be here with him right now...' and I didn't want that. So, fortunately or unfortunately, I didn't go and $300 worth of basketball tickets went to waste. Oh well. BUT my happiness is more important. Something I heard in AA a lot was: with every relapse, you hit a new bottom and it becomes even harder to work yourself back up.
I saw this very much with my ex in the 3 years and the constant on and off. Whenever I start thinking about him or have the urge to contact him, I remind myself of how each time we broke up and got back together, it got worse and worse. So far I'm doing ok, but one day at a time you know? I just pray everyday to make it through today and especially through Christmas. Hang in there soexhausted!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SAN FRANCISCO
Posts: 1,176
I was having a terrible weekend this past as well...
I've been trying to go out and meet new people but I spent a lot of the weekend feeling depressed. The ex has quite an internet presence and I am tempted to look him up to see if I can find any new photos of him. I know it's stupid and I'm making myself a mess.
Soexhausted you are not the only one still struggling...
At this point I think I am just lonely and wishing for someone but I'm not ready to get involved in a new relationship so the ruminating continues.
I will be going away for the holidays and I think that will help. I'm tired of my life right now so a break will be good.
I've been trying to go out and meet new people but I spent a lot of the weekend feeling depressed. The ex has quite an internet presence and I am tempted to look him up to see if I can find any new photos of him. I know it's stupid and I'm making myself a mess.
Soexhausted you are not the only one still struggling...
At this point I think I am just lonely and wishing for someone but I'm not ready to get involved in a new relationship so the ruminating continues.
I will be going away for the holidays and I think that will help. I'm tired of my life right now so a break will be good.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 122
The holidays are definitely painful.
But what I have to keep reminding myself of was how much more painful they were when she was still in my life.
When I truly put it in perspective any discomfort that I might be feeling now is nothing compared to what it was like before.
ZiggyB & mdkathy62 I do not know if you attend Al Anon meetings or not.
But for me the program has been a life saver.
I go to a meeting almost every night.
Even when I am in pain going into the meeting,I am never in it when I leave.
It gives me something to do rather then wallow in self pity.
And you also get to meet new people.
I too am not quite ready to start dating again.
But Al Anon gives me a safe place to be around single women and learn how to socialize again.
To anyone out there that reads this post and are in pain due to an addict/alcoholic
I cannot emphasize enough what an incredible program Al Anon is.
And for the women out there I cannot tell you how many women have told me that the men in Al Anon have given them faith in men again.
But what I have to keep reminding myself of was how much more painful they were when she was still in my life.
When I truly put it in perspective any discomfort that I might be feeling now is nothing compared to what it was like before.
ZiggyB & mdkathy62 I do not know if you attend Al Anon meetings or not.
But for me the program has been a life saver.
I go to a meeting almost every night.
Even when I am in pain going into the meeting,I am never in it when I leave.
It gives me something to do rather then wallow in self pity.
And you also get to meet new people.
I too am not quite ready to start dating again.
But Al Anon gives me a safe place to be around single women and learn how to socialize again.
To anyone out there that reads this post and are in pain due to an addict/alcoholic
I cannot emphasize enough what an incredible program Al Anon is.
And for the women out there I cannot tell you how many women have told me that the men in Al Anon have given them faith in men again.
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Originally Posted by soexhausted 
was able to recognize right away what was happening to me.
Recognizing our behavior and going "no, this is not how I want to live.. this is no longer how the story should go" shows a MAJOR step forward.
I also went to the HW store for bread, in romance and in "friendships". And I might probably keep going. I have spent 30 years in this world, it won't change quickly nor magically. Progress...
I just went NC with a couple of people that are not true friends. I feel lighter!
Once you are done, you are done, I have not had the urge to ask about XABF anymore or contact him directly. I have been in way too much pain already and I do not deserve more. And when you are in contact with an active addict for whatever reason, you only get pain. At least that is my experience.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Orem UT
Posts: 312
Yes, NC is hard during the holidays even though all the memories are bad, I still miss him. I am whiteknuckling thru this time, maybe because my son had him at his home this past Sunday. after over a year of NC with his dad. I immediately asked my son about him (AXH), how is he, his looks? if he said something about me, if took a gf with him? etc.etc. My son said he looks serene and good, he came alone just with the dog, he was actually nice and had a nice time together...(crap)..inside I wanted him to missed me to be sad and lonely, to ask about me...and all these is pis.... me of.. then I have a wonderful fiance that is all I wanted my AXH to be but I still missed the alcoholic!!
Yes, the pain doesn't stop but is much better without him..
This X-mas is going to be better, peaceful and fun, no drama, no crying, no fear, no guilt, thank you all that write your ES&H, It really helps me.
God's will I stay NC for another 24.
Yes, the pain doesn't stop but is much better without him..
This X-mas is going to be better, peaceful and fun, no drama, no crying, no fear, no guilt, thank you all that write your ES&H, It really helps me.
God's will I stay NC for another 24.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 122
We all have to hang in there with no contact.
Every time we break it we are right back to were we started.
I constantly keep saying to myself, don't you want a happy life?
Every time I start thinking about calling her, I remind myself of the fact that she has a new boyfriend.
He is an alcoholic.
He lives in a sober living facility.
He is seven years younger then she is.
He has no home.
He has no job.
He has no car.
And he cheated on her in less then six weeks of dating.
She found her dream man.
How can I possibly compete with all that!
Every time we break it we are right back to were we started.
I constantly keep saying to myself, don't you want a happy life?
Every time I start thinking about calling her, I remind myself of the fact that she has a new boyfriend.
He is an alcoholic.
He lives in a sober living facility.
He is seven years younger then she is.
He has no home.
He has no job.
He has no car.
And he cheated on her in less then six weeks of dating.
She found her dream man.
How can I possibly compete with all that!
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
