GingerM

This was quite possibly the most difficult thing I have finally learned to master.

At first, I couldn't figure out how one went about letting people (or person) say such awful things about me without me "defending myself" Somewhere along the rocky road that has been my life recently, I finally got it.

I do not have to defend my honor because anyone who knows the situation will see the crazy for what it is, and anyone who buys into the other person's opinion isn't worth my effort anyway.

Once I managed to get that thoroughly settled in my head and heart (the latter usually takes longer for me than the former) then I struggle with the logistics.

My therapist recommended a technique she called "fogging". It usually involves making non-committal noises while the person is talking/yelling at you.

The most important part for me was learning to say, to the other person, "I understand that that is your opinion, and I don't agree with it." Not "but I don't agree"... "AND I don't agree"

As long as the person feels they can gain purchase/keep hold of you in some way, they can continue to argue (to whatever purpose that serves for them). But by either not saying anything or by saying "I understand and I don't agree", there is nothing to "hold onto" and therefore nothing they can argue against or for. There's no psychological foothold.

A different way of looking at it is that the person arguing with you is actually connecting with you (albeit in a very destructive fashion). If you want them to leave you alone, you need to sever the connection. Severing the connection can be done by refusing to argue with them.

At first, a person who is used to being able to suck you into an argument will continue to try various tactics to keep you in the argument - but eventually they will give up. No one is willing to beat their head against a wall for very long. Be the wall.

One common example from my life: someone will add a metamessage into something I say, then hold me accountable for the meaning they ascribed but I never said. For instance, let's say someone invites me to a birthday party and I can't go. And let's say that they respond to my declining of the invitation by saying "What your'e really saying is that I'm not important enough to you for you to spare a little time for me!"

What I actually said was that I couldn't make it to their party - not that I didn't like them or they aren't important to me. THEY put that message in there, then held me accountable for THEIR message. My usual response to that is "I did not say that, you said that. If that is how you really feel, then I am very very sorry for you." If they continue with "You didn't SAY it, but you said it!" I just repeat the above in the same tone of voice (that's very important). "I did not say that, you said that. If that is how you really feel, then I am very very sorry for you." The most I've ever had to repeat myself is five times, and that only happened once. Usually two or three times is enough.

Another example: My dad is blaming me, quite vocally, for him being in prison. He assigns all kinds of negative reasonings to "my" motivations for "putting [him] in here". Each attack he sends my way, I respond with some variation of "That's not how I feel, I'm very sorry to hear that you think that." Note that there's nothing to get purchase on for him to argue further - I have acknowledged that I heard and understood what he said, and I have clearly stated that I have sympathy for him feeling that way.

It's very difficult for most people to argue with sympathy - however, for the most determined individual (like my dad), it is not impossible. Sometimes he'll respond by saying "You wouldn't be sorry if you didn't know it was true." I use the same technique again, "That's not how I feel (stating my truth), I'm very sorry to hear that you think that (offering of sympathy)." I don't think I've ever gone more than two rounds with that scenario (where he's attacking my sympathy).

The key to my technique is to let the person know you heard them, then state your own truth (this keeps you from getting sucked into their crazy, that's why it's so important), then make a sympathy statement.

If the garbage is more of a guilt trip nature (less of a direct accusation), that's where fogging works really well. Let's say the person says "Gosh my light bulb is burned out and it's really hard to see in here, it would be great if I had a daughter/son who cared enough to help out." The answer to that would be "mmmm, yes, I can see how you'd feel that way." Note that in that statement is absolutely no acceptance of the guilt the person is handing you. It is nothing more than a recognition that they said something. They may continue on and become more personal, in which case, switching to the "I understand, I'm sorry you feel that way" statement works wonders.

For guilt, my therapist once told me that guilt is like an object wrapped in brown paper. A person will try to give it to you, hoping you'll take it because you don't know what's inside. They're sneaky about how they try to get you to accept the guilt-box. But the thing is, you can refuse to accept it. You can say "Yes, you definitely have a box there," and not hold out your hands to take it when they offer it to you. They're still stuck holding the box, you haven't been smacked with the guilt bat, and the person still has whatever problem they had to begin with (the burned out light bulb in my scenario above).

Within the past two months, I have, unfortunately, been given ample opportunities to practice both of these techniques. And I'm getting really pretty good at them (at the risk of sounding like I'm getting a big head - and at greater risk that I'm tempting fate to throw something bigger at me *eyes shiftily*).

I finally understand. I thought I did before, but it feels different now. When I respond, it's not just words to me - I really do understand what my dad is trying to say to me (oh boy, do I ever understand), and I really do have sympathy for him, for his must be a world of incredible turmoil and pain.

I'm NOT saying that this is an easy process. I go see my dad every third week. The visit is roughly 2.5 hours long. It's 2.5 hours of using those techniques (along with repeating like a mantra "I have the right to not participate in the crazy making behaviors of my family"). I come out emotionally and intellectually and psychically exhausted. But I don't come out feeling like I'm sub-human. I don't come out feeling like I have unfinished business. I don't come out continuing to argue with him even when he isn't there. It doesn't keep me angry, it doesn't keep me from sleeping at night. It's "only" exhausting.

I thought I'd share this with everyone here. I've been using these techniques for a long time now, but it's only been recently that it finally settled into my being that what I was saying was really true. So if you're using these techniques but not feeling quite settled with them, I want you to know that if you keep using them, eventually it will all slide into place and you'll be able to stay centered on yourself and not let the other person wear you down or make you feel inferior.

If I can do it, you can too!

Gin

Kialua

This is exactly what I feel. Anyone that wants to believe other's opinions about me is welcome to it, they are not worth my time to correct. This reminds me of one person in particular who would try to gossip about me to whoever she could. And it worked quite often. I finally quit discussing it with people. Then one woman came to me and told me what she was saying about me. I said, "yes thank you I am very well aware of what she likes to tell people", and just sighed and rolled my eyes. Then this woman told me she said to the gossiper, "Well that isn't the Kialua I and my husband know, she is opposite of what you are trying to tell me. I won't listen to anything more you have to say."

Good people will not listen to bad people. If they do, then they are not my good people anymore.

looselips

Hi Ginger,
I'm so happy for your success! The repetition tool is amazing.
I am working on similar issues. For the longest time, it was truly difficult for me to even understand that I could, and should speak for myself. I mean, difficult in the sense that calculus and philosophy are difficult- like I just could not wrap my mind around it! I had that experience also when my Al Anon sponsor tried explaining to me that I am not responsible for other people's feelings. I literally did.not.understand.
It hurts my heart to hear about that relationship with your father. That sounds so painful. What an awful thing to be blamed for.

MMkM

Those are some good techniques.

And sounds like a very good therapist.

Is this a therapist that specializes in ACOA or family relationship problems?

Thanks for letting us know how you utilize them.

Disengaging is something I need work on. Right now that is just literally changing phone numbers, emails, ways of contacting and no contact at all execpt with one sibling. Far less emotionally draining than all the fighting, yelling, blaming, etc...

EveningRose

Thank you for posting, Ginger! Great insights and information!

I was (still am, really) in a position where my parents and I attend the same church and I know my mother is bad-mouthing me there. I spent a long time worrying that all the little old ladies were hating me as I sat in the pew each Sunday, but I found, in not trying to defend myself, that these women have actually been quite warm to me, and at least one of them has clued me in that nobody actually much likes or respects my mother. So, yes, the truth will come out. I keep my mouth shut and my nose clean and let my actions speak for me.

1waytoserenity

One of my favorite quotes is, "Your opinion of me, is none of my business." That sure helped me get through a lot of worry about what others thought of me and wondering if I should do more to please them.

GingerM

My therapist actually "specializes" in what she describes as "the shelter population." Mostly family shelters. She sees family dysfunction on a level some of us simply couldn't wrap our minds around. Certainly some of the things she's told me about some of her other clients make me think that I had it easy (and still do).

But it's really kind of nice in that her 'normal clientele' means that she has a very good handle on the various and sundry ways that families can self destruct. And she can sit through amazing barrages of venom aimed directly at her, so I'm sure a lot of the tools she's shared with me are ones she has to use on a daily basis with some of her clients.

What a fabulous quote! Thanks for sharing it.

LaFemmeNikita

Ginger,
I have had this open on my iPad all day. This was the best lesson I could have learned. I can't thank you enough for sharing this with me. My alcoholic mother is such a masterful guilt giver and critic. I am crying now because I guess of relief in a way knowing that you too went through this and I don't feel so alone anymore today. I wish I could talk to your therapist too, but this lesson was the greatest. Thank you so much for taking the time to post this.

dollydo

"For guilt, my therapist once told me that guilt is like an object wrapped in brown paper. A person will try to give it to you, hoping you'll take it because you don't know what's inside. They're sneaky about how they try to get you to accept the guilt-box. But the thing is, you can refuse to accept it. You can say "Yes, you definitely have a box there," and not hold out your hands to take it when they offer it to you. They're still stuck holding the box, you haven't been smacked with the guilt bat, and the person still has whatever problem they had to begin with (the burned out light bulb in my scenario above)."

This is a keeper, makes alot of sense, thanks for posting!

ACOAHappyNow

Thank you so much for this post! This is more useful to me than I can say. For me right now, I am disengaged with my family of origin as much as possible, but these are wonderful techniques to remember.