WishingWell

Here is some food for thought, and excerpt from the book, No More Letting Go: The Spirituality of Taking Action Against Alcoholism and Drug Addiction by Debra Jay

These are not my words but hers - have any people here read it? It's worth a good read IMO. She encourages intervention. She goes into detail about brain scans and the amount of actual, physical brain damage that occurs in addicts. Rendering their brains dysfunctional, unable to think clearly.

Here's to the journey we're all on!

"Addiction literature has paid a good deal of attention to detachment over the last couple of decades. When I read literature about detachment, the advice is primarily taking care of ourselves, ceasing our attempt to force others to do what they don't want to do, letting go of our need to control, setting people free to do as they choose, minding our own business, and finding a place of peace for ourselves. This is very good advice under most circumstances but when we are faced with the uncompromising and relentless addiction of someone we love, we need a plan that is proactive and gets decisive results.

Addiction is intrusive and unrelenting. It demands our attention and drops fear, pain and sorrow in our laps. The burden is immense and keeps growing. It is difficult to feel good about ourselves when we live with constant fear and worry about the very real problems that come with addiction. Simple platitudes of detachment are insignificant when someone we love is losing everything to addiction and our lives are crumpling as a result.

When I scrutinize how the word detachment is commonly used today, several questions come to me. Is motivating an alcoholic to get sober the same as forcing someone to do what he doesn't want to do? Is an alcoholic really doing what he wants when he drinks and takes drugs, or is he doing what the addiction makes him do? When we give an addict the freedom to live the life he chooses, aren't we simply giving addiction the freedom to imprison him? When alcoholism affects the family isn't it everybody's business? How realistic is it that we’ll find a place of peace when we are immersed in the daily distress of living with alcoholism? Why do we have to suffer because an addict doesn't want to get well? Why is addiction given more leeway then the family's needs? All these questions expose the inconsistencies and flaws in the idea that detachment means we should let addition run its course. It makes no sense that the "solution" should cause turmoil and pain in the lives of those closest to the alcoholic. Isn't it better to interrupt the cycle of addiction as early as possible?

Detachment is not a synonym for inaction. Rather it is a spiritual quality that makes action possible. As Kathleen Norris describes in her book 'Amazing Grace' detachment is a "healthy engagement with the world and other people." She explains further: "this sort of detachment is neither passive nor remote but paradoxically is fully engaged with the world. It is not resignation but vigilance that allows a person to recognize that whatever comes is a gift from God."

Detachment, in this sense is a willingness to take action while knowing you cannot guarantee the results."

WishingWell

This is another interesting quote from the book, out of hundreds!

"The spiritual tradition of Buddhism defines detachment as feeing oneself from the preconceived ideas that influence action, It teaches that detachment is the coming together of compassion and objectivity and from this comes clarity of insight, which allows us to relieve the suffering of others while we simultaneously preserve dignity and justice. That perfectly describes how we want to approach the problem of a loved one’s addiction.

Detachment frees us from false assumptions and paralyzing fears that block fruitful and dynamic action. Working constructively with our instinctual drive to find a way to end the cycle of addiction opens us up to new hope. As explained in the booked ‘Al-Anon Faces Alcoholism: “Detachment is not a wall, it is a bridge."

lillamy

I think the hardest part of dealing with addiction is to separate dreams from reality. For me, accepting the hard truths was a challenge I struggled with for years. I so wanted to believe there was something I could do to make my husband stop drinking.

I basically wasted 20 years of my life believing that dream. When I read this: what I see is false hope. I see the exact attitude that kept me in an alcoholic marriage for 20 years.

It's ironic, but giving up that hope was what made it possible for me to recreate a life that wasn't run by alcoholism.

Similarly, this question:
comes with an assumption that I reject, based on my experiences of addiction: It assumes that we have control over another human being, and that giving up that control is somehow shirking our responsibility. And that is the exact teaching my church had (my husband was my responsibility) that also kept me in bondage for a long time.

For me, readings that I immediately wanted to believe were leading me down the wrong path. It was the readings and messages that poked me, hard, the ones that felt painful and that I wanted to run from, that helped me in the end.

It wasn't the pats on the back from people saying "maybe it's not so bad, maybe it'll get better" that helped -- it was the harsh truths, particularly from this place, that made me realize that I had a choice, every day, and that staying wasn't NOT choosing -- it was a choice i made every day I stayed. That's what made it possible for me to choose something better for myself and my children.

WishingWell

I don't think she's saying to try to control. I think she and other experts are saying, this is a disease and there are ways to encourage treatment other than washing our hands of the addict. I think, too, a lot of people need to go down this route, and know that they did try to encourage a healthy outcome. It's a very delicate dance. And nothing works for everyone.

But I understand your thoughts! I can see both. I wonder, isn't it possible that the way you or I have dealt with addiction wasn't the healthiest or the most effective? I really believe that new research will show better direction. The old ways are not working.

Another great book and one I liked even more is > Get Your Loved One Sober: Alternatives to Nagging, Pleading, and Threatening by Robert J Meyers Ph.D. and Brenda L. Wolfe Ph.D.

It's the method used for the HBO documentary series on addiction. Research has shown excellent results as compared to the old "Al-Anon" type methods. Medicine is advancing, treatment for this too will advance. Hopefully is!

WishingWell

Also want to add, but I ran out of time to edit -

It was false hope for - you. I get that and understand. Many didn't find success. On the other side, I have many people in my own life who've faced addiction and have stayed sober for decades. Marriages who have gone on to solid success. So who's to say what's right for others? I don't think we hear the success stories on forums because this is where many come during crisis - not success.

Almost all the success that I know of has come through treatment. And a family member helping lead them to it. The addict has to walk through the door, do the work, but the encouragement was there.

redatlanta

I agree that you don't hear the success stories on here because this is the place for crisis....

Tuffgirl

I don't hear about successes frequently in the rooms of Al-Anon and AA, either. I think its easy to say we don't share our success stories here because people come here in a crisis, but I don't see that nor hear that from the old-timers here. I think there are far more "failures" than successes, unfortunately.

And I say that with great sadness, because God knows I hoped, prayed, and tried to be one of those success stories. I think all of us here have.

I read Debra Jay's stuff early on, and I tried, with epic failure, to implement some of her suggestions. I appreciate you sharing, this, wishingwell. But I take her stuff with a huge heap of take-what-works-and-leave-the-rest.

WishingWell

I'm sorry I get confused with all the posters here - did you leave your BF and then he got sober?

That happened with my husband too but before I left I did help him into treatment. SO thankful that I did!! I encouraged him to find the tools, he had all the opportunities by then laid out in front of him and THEN it was his decision to take them or not. He tried it all . . . when I left for a year, he grabbed on and almost immediately got himself sober. I believe that had he not been given the encouragement to go to treatment, had doors opened to him, had paths explained and shown - he may not be here now.

I know that that there are many horror stories with addiction. I can only speak for my life, for whatever reason, I'm surrounded by successful outcomes. All got into treatment. I can only think of 1 spouse who isn't making it, they were both alcoholics. But he's still in treatment and working on it.

It's a monster of a disease of that there is NO doubt. I like to read as much as I can to get broad ideas from experts!

PippiLngstockng

Hi wishing well

I am in the process of leaving my AH of 17 years. Can't wait, truthfully!!! Though trying to tie up loose ends before I drop the axe, plus have whatever safeguards I can round up for my protection.

But the day will come soon when I explain how over I am with him, shall I say. Maybe next week already. Or maybe I wait until after Christmas. It's tricky this time of year.

When I do, though, I want to give him advice and info about treatment. I don't expect the best, but I want to do the right thing and I want to let my children see that I did the best that I could.

How did you go about it? Thanks!

WishingWell

To be clear, I left for a year of his sobriety and then came back!

Is your husband in no treatment?

There are many rehabs, countless daily free AA meetings in every city all over the world. I'd even go with him to one before I left.

You can go to the Alcoholics Anonymous website and look up cities and find the meetings. Alcoholics Anonymous :

Go to any Al-Anon meeting in your town, which personally I would also do before I left. Al-Anon Or read one of those two books - they are both filled with really great info for families!

Sending you a hug!

stupidgirl

Wonderful posts guys. I like the idea of leaving to save yourself, but also leaving the A with the tools they need to get sober. That's the dilemma, isn't it? You want them to be successful but you also have to save yourself. I'm also planning to leave my ABF after Christmas if his attempt at quitting does not work. I think I'm going to try this. I hope it will work for him. He needs help and support, but I don't have the tools to do it.

Lulu39

My XAH is an atheist. He claims to believe in nothing. He says there is no such thing as spirituality. He is also abusive and in absolute and total denial about what his multiple addictions are doing to his body, his brain and his life. He wants to continue his addictions. He likes them. He likes his drunky friends. Despite being alone, sick and now broke he is not getting the message that he has ruined a big part of his life and the rest of his life is slowly going down the toilet.

I nicely asked him to get sober and stop abusing me hundreds of times. He said yes, but he meant NO. His actions showed me what his YES really meant.
Then I resorted to screaming it at him. Again, he said yes, but he meant NO.

Then I just shut up. Detached as much as I could. Behaved as coldly toward him as my heart felt. Behaved like the cold hearted b*tch he said I always was (when he was wasted).

When he tells me that I can shove the God and spirituality b*llsh*t up my f***ing arse and that he is not a drunk or an addict and even if he was, it's no business of mine and threatens to kill himself when the kids are listening etc. etc... well, y'know, I just didn't feel like I really cared what he did to himself any-more.

If he wants to drink and drug himself to death who am I to try anything to stop him? I am powerless over his drinking and drug taking. Totally powerless. There is NOTHING I can do or say which will help him stop it or make him stop abusing me. NOTHING.

With him not here, he can do whatever he likes whenever he likes and I don't have to worry about what it is doing to our family or our children. The consequences of whatever he is doing are his, not mine. It's such a relief.

Finally, at least now I know that someone else will be the person to find his cold, dead body. It will not be me or our children.

Maybe his mother will grant his final wish of having him cremated and having his friends smoke his ashes mixed with marijuana and smoked via a bong. Such a lofty life goal he had...

WishingWell

It's a disease. Diseases need treatment. Loving someone with a disease is not easy. We may not be able to stay but we can fully attempt to encourage them to seek treatment. Boundaries go a long ways towards that. People don't have to have spirituality to get well, there are many paths up the mountain. Most of those I know who got well were not religious or even that spiritual.

Even when I left my husband, I never felt bitterness. Times of anger were replaced with sadness and love. I fully understood that the disease was dragging him out to sea. I would encourage him to get treatment for the rest of my life, if I was with him or without.

StupidGirl who is actually SMARTGirl :-) - he's your boyfriend not a husband, leave if you know you must but you might want to read a good book on this. They may not grab the treatment info you give them now, but someday - they might. It's a tough one!

WishingWell

More of the book "No More Letting Go" -

Letting go much like detachment has been overused and analyzed. It has become an excuse to step away from problems that require our attention. We let go when we feel immobilized, or when we no longer feel like bothering with a problem that won't go away. When we hear the often repeated slogan "Let go and let God" the question rarely asked is "Let go of what?" Nowhere in the substantive meaning of letting go are we absolved of our responsibility. The essential principal of the slogan is to let go of things we are powerless over, not the things we have power to change. However, sometimes we no longer can differentiate between what we can do and cannot do.

She writes:

A friend of mine explained why he chose not to intervene on his alcoholic father, "It's the lifestyle he chose and I'm not going to interfere." Two years later his father died, but it wasn't a lifestyle choice that killed him. It was a chronic, progressive, predictable disease called alcoholism.

WishingWell

Remember in this book - when she says this about letting go or detachment, she then goes on for hundreds of pages explaining HOW to help. What steps to take, where to go, what to expect. She explains enabling behavior and how to stop it. How to set solid boundaries.

People leave for different reasons. If there is ever physical violence I do believe leaving is 100% a necessity. I can't explain the entire book here, it's at Amazon or Barnes and Nobles, her point is to aim our addicts towards and hopefully into treatment. To calm the house, to address the addiction immediately, to stop enabling and to look for solid help. It's worth a read, she explains this process far better that I can!

Hope this new week can bring some peace to people here in this struggle!

TakingCharge999

When I started to realize my XABF was an alcoholic, when I started living in his world of addiction and realizing I was enabling him - I could not have "dealt" with it - it sunk me way too low, the lowest I have ever been, the loneliest I have ever felt in my entire life. I am convinced I was and still am powerless.


Perhaps its different if it is a partner or a friend. If it is a family member, I guess one might be more committed in finding help for them or at least giving them the tools.

lillamy

Even though we tend to focus on the similarities between alcoholics here, I think this is where I can tell that either your husband was different than mine, or you're different than I am. Because as much as I profess to be a Christian, after having been raped and abused and had to physically intervene when he was trying to beat our children, I had a lot of bitterness and absolutely no love left. And I would have acted and felt the same way if his actions were the result of a brain tumor or a mental illness.

Like Lulu, I spent years trying to convince him to go to treatment. I don't think there's a person here who went "oh -- look, my partner/parent/child is an addict. I will now leave them -- buh-bye!" Most of us did exactly what you have done, WishingWell, but with other results. And I'll leave it at that because I'm getting triggered by the suggestion that if we had acted differently, we could have saved our addicts and lived happily ever after. Maybe that's not what you're saying, but that's what I'm hearing.

fedup3

I totally agree with lillamy. My XAH went to treatment a couple times with all the encouragement that I could muster up during our 39 year marriage of abuse and the last time he went to treatment the very day he got out he got drunk. He knew the tools but he wanted to drink more. I think most of us have run ourselves ragged trying to help our loved one but if someone doesn't want the help there is nothing you can do to make them. Right now I'm watching my X coming close to death's door and it's breaking my heart and lillamy is right your comments are really triggering me.

VickiACA

Lillamy,

I've read Getting Your Loved One Sober. I don't think it applies to your situation. I don't think the authors would ever encourage anyone to stay in an abusive relationship.

Placing ourselves first (and children) would always be the first step.

I think the next question becomes is there something I can do to make this situation better. And sometimes there is. The methods in GYLOS have been studied pretty extensively.

It took my brother a year and a half to get into treatment from our first conversation about it. And it was kind of a crazy ride. He'd reach out for help but then back off. He finally committed and has been sober for 6 years.

I think one of the other issues is that folks seem to see the action that follows detachment in a black and white nature. Real life is messy - with lots of grey.

Stephen King talks of his families intervention - seemed to work for him.

Although the title is unfortunate I highly recommend Getting Your Loved One Sober.

Vicki

redatlanta

I don't think that is what she is saying.........I think the post is more about suggestion that there are other ways to deal with addiction than the traditional methods that have been used for years.

Certainly we are all different and have different circumstances. To me this comes down to core personality aside from the addiction. Who is the person, is the person reasonable, inquisitive, caring.....we personify that all alcoholics and addicts are selfish bad people but not all are. And what about the level or phase or alcoholism the person is in - certainly that comes into play too. If you are an alcoholic that doesn't have the physical addicition you bypass the detox phase.....and so on and so on.

Lillamy that you endured what you endured for 20 years ......no there was nothing to be done about that person but leave him in the dust (preferably jail). I am so sorry that happened to you.