Boundary question when you have kids with sober A
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Boundary question when you have kids with sober A
I'm really struggling with this. My AH is sober for a month, not really working steps although he says he has a new sponsor and goes to daily AA meetings. He continues to blame me for his drinking and so continues to live with his father.
He comes to "see the kids" every few days, but these visits tend to go poorly. The last visit, he told me that I was "worthless to him, that he's a highly functional alcoholic, that his sponsor only hears him talk lovingly about me and can't we just go for coffee and work things out because he wants to come back home." I ask him to leave - my heart is racing and I can feel my body temperature dropping. Once in a while he will play with the kids and is good with them. Mostly he is clueless. My kids say I wait too long to ask him to leave.
His father hasn't spoken to me or the kids since September and came over last night to get firewood from our stack. My AH demands that the kids load it up for FIL/Gpa. FIL tells me that AH is sad that he can't live at home. The kids did as they were asked but we all really just wanted to not be home and avoid the situation.
Now Christmas is coming. AH expects that I will bake cookies for these people who support his crazy blame denial. People who haven't asked how my kids are doing with an alcoholic father. We will be expected to come to Christmas dinner at FIL's home and pretend that everything is great.
Where is a healthy boundary in these situations?
He comes to "see the kids" every few days, but these visits tend to go poorly. The last visit, he told me that I was "worthless to him, that he's a highly functional alcoholic, that his sponsor only hears him talk lovingly about me and can't we just go for coffee and work things out because he wants to come back home." I ask him to leave - my heart is racing and I can feel my body temperature dropping. Once in a while he will play with the kids and is good with them. Mostly he is clueless. My kids say I wait too long to ask him to leave.
His father hasn't spoken to me or the kids since September and came over last night to get firewood from our stack. My AH demands that the kids load it up for FIL/Gpa. FIL tells me that AH is sad that he can't live at home. The kids did as they were asked but we all really just wanted to not be home and avoid the situation.
Now Christmas is coming. AH expects that I will bake cookies for these people who support his crazy blame denial. People who haven't asked how my kids are doing with an alcoholic father. We will be expected to come to Christmas dinner at FIL's home and pretend that everything is great.
Where is a healthy boundary in these situations?
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Do you have somewhere else you can spend the holiday? The fact that the kids at you waited to long to ask him to leave speaks volumes. Maybe day this year we decided to spend the holiday with so and so. It's to soon for us to pretend everything is ok and I don't want the kids to hear me being called worthless on a day that is supposed to be about family.
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Originally Posted by mry 
AH expects that I will bake cookies for these people who support his crazy blame denial. People who haven't asked how my kids are doing with an alcoholic father. We will be expected to come to Christmas dinner at FIL's home and pretend that everything is great.
My suggestion is to do what you want on Christmas, and calmly and quietly hold your ground against whatever nonsense he says to you. If he says really awful things, I don't think anything is wrong with calmly and quietly reminding him that saying such things is only delaying the time that you'll permit him back in the home.
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
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I just want to clarify something from your post: He has been sober approx one month.
He is still an alcoholic. An alcoholic with the *ism's* of his condition still infecting his personality/behaviors. He may have abstained from drinking for a month, but his King Baby attitude is ruling his behavior.
If it quacks like a duck, it is still a duck.
(quacking is a term we use to describe the nonsense that comes out of the mouths of alcoholics.)
He is still an alcoholic. An alcoholic with the *ism's* of his condition still infecting his personality/behaviors. He may have abstained from drinking for a month, but his King Baby attitude is ruling his behavior.
If it quacks like a duck, it is still a duck.
(quacking is a term we use to describe the nonsense that comes out of the mouths of alcoholics.)
peaceful seabird
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Originally Posted by mry
he says he has a new sponsor and goes to daily AA meetings.
He continues to blame me for his drinking and so continues to live with his father.
The last visit, he told me that I was "worthless to him,
that he's a highly functional alcoholic,
AH expects that I will bake cookies for these people who support his crazy blame denial.
He continues to blame me for his drinking and so continues to live with his father.
The last visit, he told me that I was "worthless to him,
that he's a highly functional alcoholic,
AH expects that I will bake cookies for these people who support his crazy blame denial.
Please don't take his quacking personally.
Look at his actions. He continues to blame you, he continues to try to control you from outside the home, he continues to deny his part in all of this.
Originally Posted by mry
that his sponsor only hears him talk lovingly about me ?
A good sponsor (if he really has a sponsor) will call him out on his BS.
The only person that believes he speaks lovingly about you is himself.
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Pelican, you're right, it is quacking. I sent him home again today because he got mad that we were having shrimp for lunch. It was on sale and cheaper for 5 people than the McDonald's food he eats for breakfast but he gave me crap for spending too much money. After all the money he has wasted on booze, DUIs, wrecked cars, and counseling, he gets on me for $8 spent on food for our kids.
onlythetruth, he is not interested in earning my trust.
onlythetruth, he is not interested in earning my trust.
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Can you limit his access to you, the kids, and your house to when you give him a specific invitation? His random visits sound as annoying and disruptive as those nasty pop-up advertisements on the computer.
A boundary is a boundary, and the fence doesn't have to have holes in it.
ShootingStar1
A boundary is a boundary, and the fence doesn't have to have holes in it.
ShootingStar1
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Shooting Star, that is a good idea. He is deciding when to stop by and it's too much. I had a horrible week - there was no peace from him. This week, he stopped by every night and it was too much. One of my kids said why did we ask him to move out if he was going to be here all the time? Today, he wasn't interested in interacting with the kids. He read the paper and shut the bedroom door so that he could nap for the afternoon and tell everyone else that he'd been to see the kids. He was really mad at me because I turned on the lights and told him to play with the kids or leave.
Zube, I'm confused about how sponsors are to be handled. I've read here that some people think sponsors are the business of the A's recovery and hands off. Some think it's ok to talk to the sponsor. My AH lied to his first sponsor and my AH is angry that I told the sponsor that he was drinking. He isn't going to pass that sponsor's name along to me any time soon.
Last night my 14 year got so upset over how the week went. I need to do something more. He won't go to Alateen and isn't interested in going to counseling. He said he's afraid to take his walls down.
Zube, I'm confused about how sponsors are to be handled. I've read here that some people think sponsors are the business of the A's recovery and hands off. Some think it's ok to talk to the sponsor. My AH lied to his first sponsor and my AH is angry that I told the sponsor that he was drinking. He isn't going to pass that sponsor's name along to me any time soon.
Last night my 14 year got so upset over how the week went. I need to do something more. He won't go to Alateen and isn't interested in going to counseling. He said he's afraid to take his walls down.
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You do NOT have to subject yourself to abusive people. What you and your children deserve is basic respect, not this. I suggest doing nothing with them. No is a complete sentence, you don't have to explain or discuss.
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I have mixed feelings about what to say when you ask a question about boundaries. In my experience of my XAH trying to be sober/ holidays/ and extended family members was tough! It is hard to find a win- win solution but there are possibilities that others laid out.
In my experience, even with 7 months of sobriety and meeting attendance - the ism's showed up and sometimes we could talk it out and sometimes we couldn't. I made the decision that we needed to time ourselves out whenever/whatever - and regroup. I gave up trying to explain things to everyone else - I just nicely explained when plans changed and left it at that. I was fortunate that my kids and his kids were educated about A as a disease and so there was little to explain. I was probably the last one to accept the fact that my XAH wanted to drink and wasn't going to stop - simple as that.
It helped to grow in understanding and acceptance and made it easier to know what to do and when/ whether to say anything at all. Follow your instincts based on the whole picture and not just the past month. I wouldn't try to defend a spouse to the kids as they then just have you to respond to - I would state simply what the plan is and let them ask him.
In my experience, even with 7 months of sobriety and meeting attendance - the ism's showed up and sometimes we could talk it out and sometimes we couldn't. I made the decision that we needed to time ourselves out whenever/whatever - and regroup. I gave up trying to explain things to everyone else - I just nicely explained when plans changed and left it at that. I was fortunate that my kids and his kids were educated about A as a disease and so there was little to explain. I was probably the last one to accept the fact that my XAH wanted to drink and wasn't going to stop - simple as that.
It helped to grow in understanding and acceptance and made it easier to know what to do and when/ whether to say anything at all. Follow your instincts based on the whole picture and not just the past month. I wouldn't try to defend a spouse to the kids as they then just have you to respond to - I would state simply what the plan is and let them ask him.
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NYC, I'd love to skip the inlaws, but the kids want to go. I feel it's already a very difficult line to straddle - being open and not hiding their father's drinking, Gpa's enabling and yet not ruining those relationships for the kids. I'm sure I've crossed the line and messed this up. It's so hard to know how to handle this. I'm going to set up counseling this week.
Kassie2, it's depressing to hear that this will continue for months. What did you mean about defending a spouse to the kids?
Today, I told my AH that he could come over on Tuesday evening and Sat afternoon. He responded that he wanted to see the kids more. I told him that our 14yr was in tears after his last visit and AH said that our son shouldn't be crying, AH is the one who got displaced.
It is so hard not to respond to crazy.
Kassie2, it's depressing to hear that this will continue for months. What did you mean about defending a spouse to the kids?
Today, I told my AH that he could come over on Tuesday evening and Sat afternoon. He responded that he wanted to see the kids more. I told him that our 14yr was in tears after his last visit and AH said that our son shouldn't be crying, AH is the one who got displaced.
It is so hard not to respond to crazy.
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You are the boundary setter for you...
...and for your kids. You answer all questions about boundaries yourself, and you're also responsible for enforcing those boundaries. Just remember this-- it's only a boundary if there is action when the boundary is broken; and the action is exactly what you said would happen should the boundary be crossed.
If you can't enforce any given boundary, then don't set it because it's not a boundary-- it's a bluff. You are just wasting time and energy and, in my experience, alcoholics call most bluffs.
Take care,
Cyranoak
If you can't enforce any given boundary, then don't set it because it's not a boundary-- it's a bluff. You are just wasting time and energy and, in my experience, alcoholics call most bluffs.
Take care,
Cyranoak
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Now Christmas is coming. AH expects that I will bake cookies for these people who support his crazy blame denial. People who haven't asked how my kids are doing with an alcoholic father. We will be expected to come to Christmas dinner at FIL's home and pretend that everything is great.
I hear you.
It is so upsetting to have in-laws who blindly support/believe their alcoholic sibling and all the blaming that goes on.
My in-laws have NOT been in our lives during our 27 years of marriage. We've always lived far away from them and my AH had little interest in keeping in touch with them. Now, that his alcoholism has been made known to them (they had no idea because of the distance and lack of communication), they have formed a united front against ME....since my AH blames me for EVERYTHING, and they believe his lies without question.
My AH walks back into their lives in September and suddenly they feel that they "know" the situation and that they are qualified to advise him. Ugh!
Who the heck believes an alcoholic? Don't these folks know Rule #1...How do you know when an alcoholic is lying? His lips are moving.
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Cyranoak, I think that you are right on. In the past, I haven't been willing to kick him out for drinking although I said that I would. He caught on way quicker than I did that words are meaningless, pay attention to what people do.
Broken, I'm sorry that your inlaws are doing the enabling. It hurts when relatives (even crappy ones!) believe the alcoholic over you. I'm going to take this time to get myself healthy and I choose to see the enabling relatives as messed up so that I don't let the hurt make me bitter. I just got the codependent updated books (there are 2 more!) from the library. If the alcoholic is being enabled, it is NOT going to be by me.
Today, I'm free of the drinking craziness and my insurance company paid for 8 free counseling sessions. My first is next week. I"m on my way!
Broken, I'm sorry that your inlaws are doing the enabling. It hurts when relatives (even crappy ones!) believe the alcoholic over you. I'm going to take this time to get myself healthy and I choose to see the enabling relatives as messed up so that I don't let the hurt make me bitter. I just got the codependent updated books (there are 2 more!) from the library. If the alcoholic is being enabled, it is NOT going to be by me.
Today, I'm free of the drinking craziness and my insurance company paid for 8 free counseling sessions. My first is next week. I"m on my way!
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Mry - Parents have tendencies to side with their children (but of course)...Mom and Dad wear the thickest blinders of all OR do not be surprised if Mom and Dad want their lives back which would mean getting AH out of their house - doesn't sound like that here but never know.
You said you haven't had much a relationship with these people, and Grandpa hadn't spoken to his Grandchildren since September yet you are concerned about ruining that relationship for your children - what relationship? He doesn't speak to them for 3 months and you are concerned about a relationship?
No way would I be going to this house for Christmas. NO WAY. Sometimes parents have to make decisions for their children even though its not popular.
Congrats on the therapy sessions very happy for you sounds like you are making very positive steps for yourself and your kids.
You said you haven't had much a relationship with these people, and Grandpa hadn't spoken to his Grandchildren since September yet you are concerned about ruining that relationship for your children - what relationship? He doesn't speak to them for 3 months and you are concerned about a relationship?
No way would I be going to this house for Christmas. NO WAY. Sometimes parents have to make decisions for their children even though its not popular.
Congrats on the therapy sessions very happy for you sounds like you are making very positive steps for yourself and your kids.
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I'm overwhelmed and I'm not living in your house. One of the best things I did after I kicked AXBF out was to go no contact. It was only for less than 2 weeks, but it really helped both myself and my daughter more than I ever thought possible (she stated "maybe we will have some calm in the house for awhile" she is 11). It sounds like you and your children need some space from your AH to get your own thoughts together, and it doesn't matter what he would think about that. Seeing your kids is a privilege, not a right at this point. I say call TIME OUT, don't let him in the house, go to counseling with your children and just process your own feelings. The quiet time will do wonders for everyone (even him...it forced my x to hit his bottom and enter recovery).
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