desertsong

Hello all,

I'm struggling a bit ... not with not drinking but with a very well-meaning friend in AA who is telling me what I should do and not do regarding my support system.

Long story short ... I am a woman who is headed for a divorce after 20 years of marriage to another alcoholic. I have always been a very open, gregarious person and although I have a few very close women friends who I trust with all of the details of my life, especially the "woman" issues, I tend to relate better to men for some reason ... that is just my nature through the life experiences that I've had. I've had several relapses this year and am trying to find my way and build a support system that will help keep me sober.

I have several dear friends in AA who are men. There is nothing sexual going on there AT ALL ... these are men who genuinely care about me as a friend and who want to see me succeed in my recovery. They have never made passes at me nor have they ever made me feel uncomfortable in that way. We are more "buddies" than anything else. I can call them day or night for help and they will always be there. We spend time together in social situations (going for walks, watching football, making dinner, etc.) and enjoy each other's company. We keep each other sober and accountable.

The problem is that I have a couple of female friends who think this is totally inappropriate and are really giving me a hard time about it. Their view is, "Men should hang out with men and women should hang out with women." Without going into obvious detail, I get the rationale behind this, believe me. But for me, a friend is a friend, and anyone who helps keep me sober, supports me, encourages me, and is there for me when I need them, is someone I need in my life regardless of whether they are male or female.

There is nothing in the Big Book that says it is wrong for a woman to have male friends and vice versa. Bill and Lois both worked with alcoholics of both sexes. I feel that my time is best spent with people who are helping to keep me sober ... I don't care if they are male, female, old, young, black, white, purple, yellow, green or orange. If they are adding something positive to my life, then I want them there.

I'd appreciate your thoughts on this, especially you AA'ers. I understand that these friends mean well and that their concern comes out of love. But I'm not stupid either. If I felt that a man was "13th stepping" me, I'd kick him to the curb. But I'm not about to turn away someone who wants to help me stay sober just because he's not the right sex either.

terribob

As a man I can tell you that it's my experience that the opposite sex friend thing doesn't work. It usually starts out innocent enough but the more time you spend with someone, the more comfortable you get with them, the more likely there is to be some type of "spark." I can also tell you that a lot of men will befriend you only to try to get something else.

I'm not exactly sure what the confusion is here. Most women think they can have friends of the opposite sex while most men don't have that opinion. Keep that in mind as well. Best of luck!

2granddaughters

Familiarity breeds attempt.

All the best.

Bob R

PaperDolls

I agree with everything you've said ds. Be smart.

desertsong

Wow, fellas! I appreciate the male input ... am I being naive then? I mean, I know that there are men who do go to AA to meet women and I think that's reprehensible ... but one of my friends is a 60-something old-timer who has sponsored both men and women ... I would hate to think that any guy who befriends me is looking for something else and I haven't felt that at all. Am I missing something?

FreeFall

I'm not in AA but I agree that people that help you stay sober are important and to me it doesn't matter what sex they are. If their true intentions are friendship and support they sound like guys to keep in your life.

FamilyMan2153

Just my thoughts. I think it is fine to have anyone as your support system. I have men and women but I do not have any women whom I call or meet with and certainly not my sponsor. I have been in AA for awhile and we are all pretty vulnerable, especially when just quitting or going through changes in our lives. I have seen people cross the line and it has always ended badly. Recovery first. Good luck.

MIRecovery

AA relationships are very personal ones and as terribob says the likelihood sparks flying is significantly higher than in a normal male female relationship. You mix that with looking to fill the void left by alcohol plus a bad 20 year marriage and it is very likely you are going to catch a fish whether you mean to or not.

Not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing but you are setting yourself up to be more than just friends

cfm

Who do you think sponsored the first 100 woman in the program???..............Men that's who.
The real issue here is not sex but character. Men and woman of character CAN AND SHOULD work with anyone they damn well please. I sponsor 13/or 14 guys, and 1 woman. She has a female support system as well but I am her sponsor. You should be working with anyone who can enhance your sobriety.....PERIOD.
Be careful of AA conventional wisdom. A great percentage of it is neither conventional nor wisdom. When I was very new, I was at a meeting and I was reading the steps off the scroll on the wall. My sponsor saw me doing it and said to me " Don't do that to much! I said why?? He said "You read the steps off the wall to much and your sobriety will be off the wall"".....Alot of this stuff is thrown around by people who have never been out on the street and have never been up front, close and personal with this disease of alcoholism. They just hang out at meetings and sprout fellowship horseshit............ Just do what ya gotta do, you'll be fine

Anna

I can only share my experience, which is that I work hard to be in a 'peaceful, drama-free' place in life. That keeps a smile on my face and gratitude in my heart.

YEM

You know your motivations but you dont truly know theirs. I have friends of both sexes and I really only hang out with the straight ones if there are multiple people involved. Any time I sought to hang out with a female one on one or they sought out me, there were other motivations than recovery.

Don't let that take away any value of the men who you are close to, just be wary. I am in my late 20's so I cant really vouch for what older folks may be looking to do.

JJay

Desertsong - I'm like you but vice versa. I'm a male who finds it much easier to talk to women. I'm 31 and I probably have three female friends for every guy friend I have. I feel like females listen a lot better and give much better advice.

I've been in and out of AA for years and I've always heard, "Guys stick with the guys and girls stick with the girls". I personally will take support and advice from anyone willing to give it to me. If that person happens to be a female then so be it.

hypochondriac

I'm honestly quite shocked that most of the men seem to think there's a risk here!

I'm like you DS. I get on better with men and have generally had a lot of platonic male friends. I'm fairly certain there were no sparks developing with any of them...

I'm not sure you need to do anything other than fend off any unwanted advances though right? It's not like you're gonna be unsafe in their company. It's not your responsibility to safeguard the guys from developing feelings for you by not allowing them to be friends with you

I'm a bisexual woman though so I'm not sure who I'm allowed to be friends with...

desertsong

Hypo, I just had this conversation with one of my male friends today, as a matter of fact.

This principle brings up lots of questions ... for example ... we have women in the program who are lesbians (one is a friend of mine ... so should I stay away from her too? lol). Anyway, are the lesbians only allowed to have male sponsors then? And what if a member is bisexual? They can't be with men and they can't be with women either? So what's left .... a dog? Geez ...

I guess what bothers this about me is that this ideology leaves no room for common sense. Yes, we are alcoholics. Yes, we don't make good decisions. Yes, we are vulnerable. But we are vulnerable no matter what the situation ... work, relationships, family, money ...

Things are not always black or white. Or male or female. I suppose. I dunno anymore. lol

zanzibar

I'm a man but I also find it easier to talk to women then other men in most cases dealing with recovery and general frienship. I probably have more women friends than man friends, and have never hit on any of my women friends. I don't know why I find women easier to talk to, I just do.

I also feel that a friend is a friend period.

onlythetruth

I don't think this is a black and white issue and I don't think it's limited to AA or other recovery support groups.

The fact is that opposite-sex friendships can be problematic. Not always, and I would never propose a global "rule" on such a thing, particularly since some of my closest friends are male and I am sure there is no ill intent on either side.

But my experience in life, and certainly my experience in AA, tells me that it makes sense to be VERY VERY careful of these relationships. I cannot tell you how many times I thought a particular man was safe, only to eventually find myself (or someone I knew) on the receiving end of inappropriate behavior from him. It has happened, actually, more frequently than it has not.

So as much as I wish I could say it's all okay...what I really have to recommend is extreme caution.

legna

In early recovery, particularly prior to a fearles and thorough fourth step, I often did things that I did not understand my motivation for. I didn't understand myself yet, so how could I know why I did the things I did? Decades later, I realize that I was not alone in this.

You said that you're not stupid, that you woul know if a man was trying to thirteen step you. Perhaps. Though it can be hard to ascertain someone's intention if even they don't know why they are doing what they are doing. In other words, a man might be approaching you claiming a desire for platonic friendship and believing that friendship is all he wants, but he is motivated by a subconscious agenda that even he is not aware of.

If you can see the truth of that, then it is also possible that you are appraoching men for friendshipwith unconscious motivation yourself. As a man, I know that I, in early recovery, unconsciously manipulated women myself - behavior that was only unveiled in step work that I had not yet done. There was a reason that I was more comfortable with women - I hadn't learned how to manipulate men nearly as well. Listen the next few times a random friend calls a call center or answers the phone. See if you can determine whether or not they are speaking to a man or a woman by the tone of their voice and the words they use. People tend to put on different hats when speaking to someone of the opposite sex - and it is measurable.

Is it in the Big Book? No. On the other hand, there are only 164 pages and it is the last page that admits that we know only a little. As for Bill and Lois working together with alcoholics - that is true, but they worked together for the most part and when they didn't, Bill didn't always live up to the ideals he reached for.

The suggestions are there for a reason and are borne of the experience of many who have come before us. By 1939 when the Big Book was published, there weren't enough women in the program for this to be an issue worth noting. Since then, more has been revealed.

It is possible that you are the exception to the general rule and will have no personal problems with this, but you may inadvertantly make things more difficult the new man who believes he is simply being supportive and is unaware of underlying reasons for making himself a part of your support system.

Delilah1

I have both male and female friends, and I am grateful for all of them. I think you need to rely on whoever you feel is supportive of you and your needs. Just my thoughts though.

Weasel1966

As a gay male I throw this all off. Lol... But for me the situations still exist. Friends... People... We are attracted to are based in something. More times than not that something is sexual... If we know it or not.

DS... Do what's right for you! Period.

Jeni26

This thread is so interesting to me. When I first became involved in AA it took me a while to find a female sponsor as there aren't many around in my local meetings. I was ready to start straight away actually as I had already completely conceded I was powerless over alcohol, and a the idea of a HP didn't prove as difficult as I thought it would.
I think were it not for SR and the support I got here I could have easily relapsed. In fact I did, in May, and it was at my first meeting after that I found someone to sponsor me. Things are progressing well now, but there are lots of guys I could have turned to had that idea been acceptable. I have male and female friends now, am in touch with them out of the rooms. No big deal for me or them. Absolutely nothing else to it, of that I'm positive. We support each other. One of the guys phones and texts me pretty regularly. Should I be questioning his motives? No, I really don't think so.
DS-I think we are all different. We follow our own paths in sobriety and need different support systems in place. Follow the one which works for you x