terribob

Ok. End of day 3 here and as much as I'd like to think I can do it, flying solo might not cut it. I'm interested in the Moderation Management program but it seems like they're telling me what I want to hear. 30 days and you'll be able to control yourself. AA seems so final...and religious.

Does anyone have experience they can share either way? I know doing what I've been doing (at least until 3 days ago) can't keep up. Thanks for the input!

Windancer

I have tried numerous things and what I do is take what I feel is valuable and "right" for me and discard the rest. As I heard it once said on here before, leave no stone unturned on your quest for recovery. Try AA! Why not? Have you checked out AVRT? Or SMART? I dont know if Id be comfortable with MM...like you said, it would appeal way too much to me I think. Also, self help books and good nutrition have helped me a lot.
If you are getting these feelings now, then Im so glad you posted. Tweak your program, your thinking, learn as you go.....you CAN do it. I also highly recommend posting on here as much as possible...it has been very helpful to me.

freshstart57

Something else, is my vote. There are many other options and one of them might be what you are looking for. SMART, LifeRing, SoS, CBT, AVRT are just a few. SR has a discussion forum for these more secular approaches to sobriety called Secular Connections.

Bad news about the whole finality aspect tho. SR doesn't tend to collect stories of those who have successfully moderated their alcohol intake because they don't really need us here, and also because SR is an abstinence type of institution. That is what we have found works for us.

There is a forum out there somewhere that supports moderation and harm reduction, but I can't recall what the name is. If you want to pursue that topic, that would be a better place for you. Otherwise, stick around here, there is a lot of support for you.

DoubleBarrel

MM is not recovery.

I find it very detrimental. I tried it, basically it's for people who aren't ready to quit.


Oh, by the way, the founder of moderation management, after trumpeting her success, killed people in a drunk driving crash, perfectly illustrating that if you have a problem drinking, there is no safe way to moderate.

There are many methods represented here. Stick around!

Delilah1

First, welcome to SR, this is a great tool to throw in your support toolbox!

There are lots of great support methods out there. I have kind of taken parts of each that work for me. Also, Anna has a great thread that lists books about recovery and spirituality.
I have been reading many of those books and a few others.

Read around, look at. The secular section and then see what works for you. I don't think recovery can ever be a one size fits all.

Looking forward to learning more about you.

terribob

Did not know about the founder of MM but it confirms my suspicions. I've tried moderation in the past and usually find myself drunk in record time.

This time has to be different. My family does not deserve a mean drunk.

zeroptzero

So you know moderation doesn't work for you. Don't lose sight of that. I don't think there are any programs that can "teach" you how to moderate (at least not successfully). If there were this forum might just be a ghost town.
So bad news, you will have to give it all up. I suggest you try any and all programs and methods- what works for you is the best one. The good news - you can have a great life without alcohol.

Dee74

Hi Bob

I have no experience with either but there's many different approaches and methods of recovery around - here's some links to some of the main players:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...formation.html

I recommend you visit the Secular Connections forum if you think you may benefit from a non 12 step approach.

I wish I had a dollar for every time I have to point out she had left MM and was back in AA by this time.

It's a terrible story - but I think it's a terrible story about alcoholism and persistence of the addiction.

We all have our own stories of why moderation doesn't work - I dunno why we don't use them?

D

revognuh

Hi, I'm new here I your post caught my eye as I've tried both.

I can't give you the thumbs up on either. MM is defunct in my opinion as if you can moderate you just do so anyway.

I too found AA very religious, in spite of what their members said. I have nothing against religion at all but don't see what it has to do with addiction. I'm currently looking at SMART and AVRT.

On that note, and not wanting to highjack this thread, I'm unsure where to post. If non-12 step is secular connections, given that there is a 12 step forum, what is the Alcoholism forum for?

Thanks.

Dee74

The Alcoholism forum, like the Newcomers forum, is open to everyone
welcome aboard

D

revognuh

Thanks Dee.

55,735 posts? That's crazy!

IndaMiricale

Lifelong daily drinker here. And I had to actually hear and listen to things I didnt want to at the time.. Taking the way I wanted or would of like got me here.

And quitting is final weather you use AA or anything else..

And its not religious..

Best of luck whatever you choose. but before you think about a program go check it out, so you can see what is true and not..

I am a member of AA and never have or will believe in a deitiy or religion..

Big Book On Line check out both the doctors opinion and we agnostics..

revognuh

I was told this when I joined and they said my HP could be anything except myself. I chose a few things that didn't pan out such as nature and love of the arts. I “kept coming back” as they told me to and when I could no longer “fake it until I made it” the group said they'd pray for me. I appreciated the sentiment but if AA is not religious how would that help me? I said I was leaving after that.

It wasn't officially said but I could read it in their faces that I'd been declared persona non grata.

Again, I have nothing against religion, I just don't see why AA members deny that it is an organisation with religious roots and deeply religious elements in its programme. Just because your HP is not part of mainstream religion doesn't mean it isn't religious. True there are some atheists in AA but anyone whose HP is supernatural and can intervene through prayer then to say it's spiritual, not religious is not to thine own self being true.

Even AA HQ is at the Interchurch Center and a lot of the larger public speaking meetings I attended began with “by the grace of God”.

audra

WEll Terribob - I took "harms reduction" in one of my university classes. The class was substance use and abuse. It sounded great - so that's when I thought I could certainly do it. It was terrible because when you're an alcoholic like me, you have a pathological progressive disease that you can't control but it controls you. At least I found out the hard way that moderation or harms reduction doesn't work.

And we have a rehab centre here where I live. They changed over to harms reduction (moderation management) about 10 years ago. I hear that experiment didn't work either and they are now going back to AA and the 12 steps.

AA is not religious. HP of your own understanding. Pretty wide open really. The only thing final about it is that when you finally admit you are powerless over alcohol there comes a freedom never before known. Finally - whew!!!

Take Care
Audra

Young

Aa works for me. The problem is we got a disease that talks to us. I got sober at 21.5 and have a little over 8 years now. I never thought I could do all the steps of the program and I told my sponser this and he said just do the next rite thing and don't drink. It has worked this far. It's higher power I've known several people who use the god (group of drunks) the Aa group as a higher power. I know Aa doesn't have a monopoly on soberiety but personally its the only thing that has given me the life I have today. I mean I had to work at it I had to want something different. So if you truely want a different way of life Aa mite be for you. I know when I was drinking I lived by a certin set of ideas but those principals ended up giving me a life that was rotten when I wasn't drinking. Aa gives me the tools to have a good productive happy life. A set of principals to live my life by.. I look at Aa as my medicine I still attend about 2 meetings a week one meeting is my homegroup that I help setup so I stay active and I'm there for the newcomer. It's what keeps me from drinking. A diabetic needs insulin rite? Well me as a alcholic I need Aa to not get sick and die. I was a ******* when I was drinking--- remove the alchol and drugs I was still a ******* just a sober *******--it wasn't until I started working the program of Aa that I stopped being a ******* and I've become someone when I look in the mirror I don't see someone I hate. At least this is how it is for me best of luck. I actually get pissed when people talk crap on religion. I'm a catholic today by choice and my religion is something I take very seriously but I never force my religion on anyone. Best of luck I know sobriety without recovery was unbearable. Hope you find some answers-- Rember your worth it and the disease of alcholism will kill you or worse you could live in misery for another 20 years.
Good luck

revognuh

There are many fine principals in the Bible, many of which I live choose to live by (treat others has you would like people to treat you, there is more happiness in giving than there is in receiving, etc).

I'm interested though in what your view is on Ephesians 5:18 (do not be getting drunk) and 1 Corinthians 6:9–11 (drunkards will not inherit God's Kingdom). Do you think think it is a sin to have a disease?

The Bible supports scientific evidence that addiction is not a disease* but rather a sin (stupid choice).

I would guess God wants you to quit drinking and then reconcile with Him, not the other way round.

*Don't quote the AMA, they represent a minority of the US medical community and are nothing more than a lobbyist group.

revognuh

As I said, if you HP is supernatural then it is religion. If your HP is abides by the laws of the universe (e.g. nature) then I'd say that is spiritual. The problem with the latter if you can really work the steps in their entirety.

Even the prominent atheist Richard Dawkins describes himself as spiritual in that he has a love of art, music, the countryside, etc. I think a lot of people are confused as to what spiritual and religious actually mean.

Let us remember the original poster is worried about it being religious so needs the heads up on this.

I'm reading a great book at the moment that works with any belief system. you might want to give it a try:

Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction by Jack Trimpey

amy55

I'm not AA, have nothing against AA. I am agnostic, but still would have no problem with a "HP of my own understanding". It could be the group!!!!!

Also there are many other groups or ways as stated above.

But anywho, terribob, just keep posting here till you find the thing that you need. Even after that, please stay here and let us know how you are doing

Dee74

Let's not forget the original poster - or our forum rule, guys.

Thanks

Dee

Moderator
SR

terribob

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I called my local AA 24 hour hotline and will attend my first meeting today. I appreciate this outlet and will keep everyone updated.