ThatGirl66

Hello -

First a little about myself before I start the real reason for my post - in my past I have had difficulties with alcohol and drank excessively due to very poor self esteem and depression, my late BF believed I was an alcoholic and for the final two years of his life and our relationship forbade me from drinking (which didn't work btw - made me extremely resentful and I still drank a little, just not around him.) Now, after a great amount of work on my self-esteem and depression (both self-help and professional) I don't drink excessively, just a couple of beers or glasses of wine on the weekends.

My concerns are for my current BF. We've been dating for 9 months, in that time everyone says that they've never seen us happier. And things were -and are - going great. For the most part. At first, I thought he hardly drank at all, he'd only have one beer if that when we'd go out. But I began to see signs of alcohol use that weren't the "norm" around month 3. The first was when I was taking him to meet some of my family members for the first time. It was clear when I went to pick him up that something was "off", he was slurring his words a little, stumbling a little. I asked him if he was okay, and he said yes, and off we went to meet my family. When we got there it was clear that he was drunk - his responses were a little inappropriate or did not match the conversation, loud voice, etc. I was mortified, and basically planted him in the kitchen to talk to just my aunt and grandmother, instead of continuing to talk to my brothers who were eying him suspiciously because of his behavior. When we finished with this visit, and returned to his place, he wanted to have a deep discussion about our relationship (where is it going? he's hasn't felt these strong feelings for anyone ever, etc.) In the end, I chalked up his drunk state that evening to maybe taking a little liquid courage to calm his nerves before meeting my family and having an "important" talk with me, along with the fact that I didn't think he was much of a drinker, so I didn't bring anything up to him (my first mistake - I should have called him on it immediately!)

As time went on, I began to suspect drinking again, but none that I witnessed myself - going through massive amounts of mouthwash, insomnia, getting out of bed at 2 am to watch tv in the living room, slurred speech in the morning when I'd wake up (I like to sleep in), appearing to be in the same state as the first visit to my family on subsequent family gatherings (MY family only - for his family gatherings he's been fine) - but still, I lived in denial-land and didn't say anything, even though I certainly could recognize the signs based upon my own past.

But now, I can't deny it. He's got problems with alcohol. He drinks hard alcohol (high-end vodka mostly) excessively. Like, a liter a day. He drinks in the middle of the night, in the morning before I get up, in the afternoon and early evening before I get to his place. One Sunday we couldn't go out to breakfast because he didn't feel well - he "drank more than he thought he did" the night before (and I hadn't noticed that he was drinking at all, so I was very confused, but then realized he's drinking when I'm not looking!) He QUIT his job due to a boss he couldn't get along with, without another job lined up, then a week later went on a three day bender where he consumed at least 6 liters of vodka along with several large beers (based on my count in the kitchen trash - there may have been more.) I was out of my mind with worry when I didn't hear from him on day two (we talk on the phone every day), and went to check on him, and found that he was just smashed drunk. I asked him why he didn't call me. He said "I don't know" I told him that wasn't an acceptable answer. I asked him what is going on here and he said it was because he was depressed that he didn't have a job, and that he'd never been out of work for that long (which isn't true, he was out of work for two years due to layoff before the job he quit. ) I told him that drinking like that wouldn't help the situation, and he agreed. I stayed for a couple of hours with him - he wanted me to stay all night but I had to work the next day so I didn't - then left, but told him I'd be back that following night. And all the time I'm there he's telling me that it means so much that I care, how much he loves me, etc. But he's barely making sense and I can barely understand him because he is so drunk.

I get a text the next morning about 10 am thanking me for coming to check on him and caring. So, I think, that's nice, he's slept it off and hopefully is on the right track. WRONG! I go over that night, and he's drunk again - or should I say, still roaring drunk! Seriously. And we're supposed to go to a party at my friends that next night (which he managed to attend, hungover, with me.) At the end of that weekend, I told him that I could tell that he'd been drinking in the past but hadn't mentioned it (mouth wash, showers don't hide it very well, plus his speech gets soooo slurred and he's got this lazy eye that comes out when he's drunk) I didn't care what he did in his own home and that I wasn't asking him not to drink (knowing that it wouldn't work anyway), but that he needed to be responsible and take care of all his obligations, which includes his obligations to our relationship. He thanked me for "putting up with him this weekend" and promised (ha ha ha, stop snickering out there) to not let it happen again.

Well, you guessed it, he was fine for about week, then back at it again. Obviously drunk when I got there on Saturday night. Drinking in the morning before I got up. Fifth of booze in the spice cupboard that was full on Saturday night but in the garbage Sunday morning, went out in the morning before I got up to get breakfast fixings - which included a liter of vodka. I left mid-afternoon on Sunday, and then couldn't get him on the phone or via text until Monday morning around 10.

Needless to say, I'm at my wits end. I feel like a hypocrite, with my past, if I tell him not to drink. And, he's a great guy - even when he's drunk (he's not a mean drunk, in fact, he's very happy, affectionate and complimentary.) But I cannot put up with this, and need to set some limits. I do not want to police his drinking, check the cupboards, fridge and freezer for evidence (I'm finding myself doing this lately.) But I'm not ready to walk away from him - again I'd feel like a hypocrite because I know it's possible from my own experience to turn this around. And I think he's worth giving a chance.

I am having some trouble understanding the solo drinking. When I drank it was completely social, out at bars or parties. I LOVED being the life of the party, the center of attention. The holing up in an apartment for three days with the drapes drawn drinking just baffles me. But my BF is definitely way less social than I am. He hardly does anything with any friends unless I am there. And now that he's not working he's home all the time.

On a weird plus side, this has COMPLETELY turned me off drinking at all myself, even one glass of wine. And now - karma alert! - I have had a realization about what my late boyfriend went through with me (I never went on a multi-day bender, but I was out many a late night drunk as a skunk in very questionable situations.)

Any thoughts, comments, suggestions would be most appreciated.

suki44883

Welcome to SR. We all understand what you are dealing with and you will find a lot of support here. You may not hear exactly what you want to hear, but we will always be honest with you. Take what you need and leave the rest.

That said, it certainly does sound like this guy has a drinking problem and if he is drinking mouthwash (which you alluded to), then he is a full blown alcoholic. Nothing that he did on the visit with your family is your fault. You shouldn't have to sit someone down and tell them how to act appropriately. He should know not to show up drunk.

You also don't have the right to tell him not to drink. He's an adult, so he has the right to drink himself silly every single day, if that's how he wishes to live his life. You, on the other hand, have the right to decide what you will and will not put up with in a relationship.

Please don't think you can change him. You can't. Alcoholism will always win over relationships, whether they be with family members, girlfriends, fiances, or anything else. If you truly are at your wits end, then you have a serious decision to make. Either continue the relationship and receive more of the same, or do what is best for you and your own well-being.

I think alanon would be helpful for you. You could use some face-to-face support from others dealing with alcoholic loved ones. I hope you will consider it. Also, I hope you will read the "stickie" posts at the top of this forum. There is a lot of helpful information there.

Pelican

Welcome to the SR family!

You have discovered a wonderful resource for support and information. Please make yourself at home by reading and posting as much as needed. We understand.

When I first arrived, I learned about the 3 C's of my loved ones alcoholism:

I did not Cause it
I can not Control it
I will not Cure it

Just as you learned that your previous BF's words didn't stop your drinking, you are finding that your words are not powerful enough to stop this guys drinking.

I wish our love and compassion was enough to cure them.

In our sticky posts (older, permanent posts at the top of this main forum page) are some of our stories. I find inspiration each time I read in the stickies.

Here is my favorite sticky post. It contains steps that helped me:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html

Florence

Hoo boy. This sounds familiar.

Whenever you feel the need to interfere or make his drinking problem your problem, recite this to yourself:

I did not Cause it
I can not Control it
I will not Cure it

It will feel empty at first, but then you'll realize that you're taking responsibility for his problem where he will not. Likely, the reason he will not take responsibility for his problem is that other people are in some capacity. His drinking or not drinking has nothing to do with you, it doesn't make you a good or bad person, and it doesn't make you a hypocrite. We are all ultimately responsible for our own actions and choices. You got some insight into your earlier life and what an old boyfriend was trying to tell you long after the fact (I had this same experience -- I am not an alcoholic, but I did find self-destruction extremely alluring, which in hindsight is bad news all around, obviously) and it scared you. But that has little to do with your current boyfriend. He's not drinking at you. He's drinking. That's what alcoholics do. And he will continue to drink with and/or without your interference until he decides this is stupid and crazy and it can't go on. Most addicts will have to lose a great deal of what's important to them before they get clarity.

If you keep reading, you'll discover that a lot of people advise that friends and family of alcoholics get out of their way, stop enabling, and let the full consequences of their drinking hit the addict with full force. When we try to manage them, convince them, and manipulate them into treatment, these coercive maneuvers blow up in our faces. The source of the desire to get sober has to be him, and we can't spend our time and energy on that, or we drive ourselves crazy. Literally.

If he's at a point in his drinking where the mouthwash is disappearing and he's sneaking bottles of vodka, I will guarantee you that there are dark, nasty layers to this that you don't even know about. That you can't imagine. I'm saying this from experience, that all I knew of my husband was that he drank heavily. By the time I discovered that he was drinking from sun up to sundown, that the only reason he had a job is that his boss was an active alcoholic and codependent, that he's cheated on me, that he drove drunk every day, that he could maintain a BAC of .3 and talk to you like he was any other guy, that he was having seizures in the kitchen after I went to bed if he ran out of booze... all I knew is that I could tell he was drinking because of the lazy eye, occasional slurring, the constant refrain of, "I'm just tired." He is also a "great guy." He's smart and capable, and if anyone has the resources to get sober, god knows he does. He's been trying for two years to get clean and can't stop relapsing. As it turns out, I only saw the tip of the iceberg. His addiction issues run straight into his adolescence and have continued unabated since, thanks to a crew of unbelievable enablers. Until recently, what I know what I saw, I didn't understand what I was looking at.

None of this is a referendum on him as a person. The fact is that this is all him. The "great guy" is the same guy that also gets drunk and says inappropriate things to your family, and makes your brothers spidey senses go crazy, and doesn't call and isn't emotionally available. It's all him. Can you live with him as-is? Or are you planning to double down and make him change, make him see, make him better?

You are right to regard these as red flags. These are red flags. Considering you aren't married to him and don't have kids with him, and since you're asking for advice, try to walk away and disconnect. Stop inviting him out with your family. Revise your expectations about his behavior to match reality, and not your hopes and dreams for him. This is what it is. Break up with him. You don't want these problems. If you don't want to live like this indefinitely, you need to screw up the courage to lovingly break up with him and maintain physical and emotional distance. If not, please find an Al-Anon group and keep posting here. You will need it.

BrokenHeartWife

Absolutely disconnect. The red flags are waving loud and clear. You may feel that you've invested 8 months with him, but be grateful it's not been 8 years. Find someone who doesn't have a drinking problem...your life will be FAR less complicated.

ThatGirl66

Oh wow I never thought about his actually drinking the mouthwash. I just thought he was using it constantly to cover up alcohol on his breath.

ThatGirl66

Thanks everyone. I will definitely check out the stickys and al-anon.

Didn't hear from him again last night, even though he said he'd call, and no answer to my text or calls (surprise, surprise) - I can only assume he's on another bender. It makes me so sad.

I know I can't stop him, that he has to want to stop himself. And I don't blame myself for his drinking, there is something there, some issue or issues of his that don't have anything to do with me that he needs to acknowledge and work on (just as I had to do a few years ago.) But since I know from personal experience that it can be done, it's really hard to walk away from him.....and since his drinking is a rather new discovery for me I feel like I haven't even really discussed it with him enough (I know, I know, discussing it won't make him stop, but I need to feel that I've done it!)

At this point I will try drawing a boundary of I won't go see him if I believe he's drunk, and I will leave if he becomes drunk while I am there. If he comes to my place, well, there is no opportunity to sneak drinks, since I typically do not have alcoholic beverages at my house (but now will need to toss cheap wine I have for cooking, and my mouthwash - any other secret alcohol sources I should get rid of?)

Thank you again for your suggestions, comments and support!

ThatGirl66

[QUOTE=Pelican;3690339]

In our sticky posts (older, permanent posts at the top of this main forum page) are some of our stories. I find inspiration each time I read in the stickies.

Thanks Pelican for directing me to the sticky (the link to which apparently I can't include in the quote because I haven't logged enough posts yet.) I can see I've already done some of these - so easy, I'm a nurturer by nature, and I also love to try to solve everyone's problems.

When he quit his job, before I realized the extent of his drinking, I'd offered to let him stay with me if he couldn't find a job that paid as well as the job he left. He was reluctant to take me up on this (thankfully) and now I think I will not repeat the offer.

I believe he's at the point of charging alcohol on his credit card at the liquor store. Who knows how he's going to make his rent and pay his bills.

On a technical note - is there a way to print the stickys? I'd love a hard copy to refer to.

Thanks again.

ZiggyB

Head for the hills!

Yeah he sounds a lot like my ex, especially after he lost his job. They drink alone and at home because it's cheaper that way, but sometimes they go to bars too.

I spent 3 years of my life with someone like this because I was unable to let go. Truthfully there were times when he was better than other times (especially when he was working) but it was a very painful, sad experience for me. They will hide the booze, do all their drinking before they see you or when you're not around. The whole situation drove me nuts. It is an added stressor, for sure.

ThatGirl66

OMG, sitting here at lunch reading the sticky about the things that "normies" wouldn't know and saw this one:

"That the reason that your toilet doesn't flush properly is because there is is a bottle of booze in there."

To quote Oprah - "ah ha" moment

One day when I was over and I used the bathroom the toilet stopped up. I asked if he had a plunger. He didn't and had to go to the store to get one. But after he got back, he wouldn't let me plunge the toilet (which is no biggie for me to do, believe me), and wouldn't even do it himself until I left. I thought it was a little strange that he wouldn't take the minute it would take to plunge it and fix it until I left, but completely forgot about it until now. Wonder if there was a bottle in the toilet tank? So bizarre, we don't live together so he really doesn't need to put so much effort into hiding booze, he can just keep it in the kitchen cupboard, fridge or freezer. I wouldn't have thought he was hiding it at all until now.

Also never would have thought of alcohol in vanilla extract. Wow. Even though I spent my own time on self destruct, the only thing I'd drink was beer and wine (and there was a "good wine" threshold that needed to be reached.) Never hard alcohol, and never in a million years would have thought of mouthwash or vanilla.

Florence

I hear you -- even in my party days I had limits. My AH had less, and it seemed like it was all innocent fun. Seriously. I look back and cringe.

There is a series done by HBO called "Addiction" that does a wonderful job explaining how addicts lack the boundaries and impulse control, i.e. the "brakes," that non-addicts rely on. Parts of the series are available online for free.

HBO: Addiction: The Films

This lady is the best:
HBO: Addiction: The Film: Supplemental Film: An Interview with Nora D. Volkow, M.D.

BrokenHeartWife

At this point I will try drawing a boundary of I won't go see him if I believe he's drunk, and I will leave if he becomes drunk while I am there. If he comes to my place, well, there is no opportunity to sneak drinks, since I typically do not have alcoholic beverages at my house (but now will need to toss cheap wine I have for cooking, and my mouthwash - any other secret alcohol sources I should get rid of?)


I don't think that's a good enough plan. It's not enough for you to avoid him if he's been drinking. many times you won't even know that he's been drinking.

AND...once he realizes that you don't have alcohol in your home, he'll just start bringing his own. He'll either walk in with the bottle(s), or have them hidden somewhere on his person or in his things.

BlueSkies1

The quantity that he drinks says it all--he's a full-blown alcoholic. A fifth before breakfast is no amateur...that's a seasoned alcoholic.
I wouldn't worry about not having alcohol in your home. There's no way he's coming over without his stash secure in his coat, car, or suitcase. Probably even an emergency bottle stuck inside your speaker or behind your couch.
What can you talk to him about? How he feels nervous around your family. You don't have to bring up the needing to drink part to go there, you both already know. You can discuss the family dynamics and personalities that he has to adjust to in order to be your bf.
No job is a slippery slope. Don't give him a key, who knows when you will come home to find that he has moved in.
Don't confuse your past alcohol use, or abuse, with alcoholism. Your history and his addiction don't even compare. You can safely drink a couple these days. He is an alcoholic--which means one is too many and an entire bottle isn't enough. See the difference? Once he starts on any given day, he can't stop until he passes out...the sure sign of the truly alcoholic.
So what now? The cat's out the bag, the blinders are off. I'm not saying belittle or demean or degrade him, look down upon him, or see him as less-than...but this man has a serious problem with alcohol. He's sweet now, it's only a little inconsideration in not returning phone calls...trust me...it won't stay that way, been there, done that, got the tshirt and aged ten years extra.

Jody675

i have a good friend who was with his gf for 5years. after a couple of years he was telling me that she drank a little more than he liked, that she drank an entire bottle of wine a night (at least), and would come to bed regularly drunk. but he loved her and thought he could "help" her, and that her "issues" wasnt really that big a deal for other friends of his said they liked it when their partner had a wine or two when they came home from work for it helped them to relax (all great excuses to minimise the issue). i told him on that conversation that she had a drinking problem that he couldnt solve it for her, and that it might be best to pack up and move on. well through the next 3 years he talked more and more about her drinking problems, the hiding of bottles, the sneak drinking, how he was so turned off by her drunkeness that he didnt want to have sex with her anymore, and that she drank every time. he eventually saw the light and left. but not until he had wasted those 3 years of his life trying to fix something he thought he had a hope of fixing.

dont be like my friend Bridgett (use to love that show "that girl"). leave your bf to his drinking and let him sort it out for himself. as everyone here has said...you didnt cause it, you cant control it, and you certainly cant cure it. your time is valuable on this earth. just look at the short time your last bf had here. do you want to waste it on someone who doesnt think his life is valuable?

good luck and hope you find some some answers.

ThatGirl66

Thanks everyone for your comments, they validate my thoughts (sadly.) I keep thinking of all these little things that are more red flags, like when we went to the grocery store on the way to a friends house and I had chips, dip and a bottle of wine I was buying to take with us. I paused at the self-check out, because I didn't know if you could take alcohol through it. My BF did though, and said "I always go to the check out closest to the clerk" (there's a clerk that oversees all the self checkouts) "they are right there to approve it". At the time, I just thought he knew that because he was familiar with his local grocery store - but now I think HOW MANY TIMES a week does he go through the self check out with alcohol, and in what state?

Makes me so sad. I really thought this guy was everything I was looking for. His family is great. I don't think they have a clue about his drinking. Everyone is so happy that we are dating. But they only see the guy that has one or two beers while he's out, not all this heavy drinking at home. So sad....

Jody675

it is sad, but its even saddier when you stay thinking that you can make a difference. just because his life is sad doesnt mean yours has to be as well.

ThatGirl66

So I called him last night - he hadn't tried to get in touch with me - and he didn't sound too drunk, just very very moody. When I asked him why he didn't call on Monday all he said was "Oh. Sorry." Flat. No explanation. Nothing. This from the guy that makes such a big deal of how wonderful it is that we talk on the phone every night, and says he'd think something was wrong if I didn't send him a good morning text every day.

Then he said he didn't have much to talk about (which I suppose you don't, if all you've been doing is sitting at home drinking), and was tired, and was going to bed early,and we ended the call. All in all it was a good phone call - NOT! Normally we've had great phone conversations, even thought both of us really don't enjoy talking on the phone. But at least I know he's still alive, right? That's what I'm worried about now, because he lives alone, what if he falls or something while he's drunk and injures himself and no one knows? Especially if he's not working, there's no one to miss him during the day. Sigh.

NCgirl7

I know what youre going through ThatGirl.

Me and my alcoholic boyfriend split last night. Like you, I was very happy with him. I recognized the problem a few months ago, but didn't know just how bad it was until I caught him drinking a pint of vodka before work.

There is no easy solution. I'd tell you to break it off with him, but it much easier said then done, being its taking everything in me right now to not call my now "ex". Its heartbreaking and it sucks. Still, logically we both know that we cannot "fix" them. Its going to take them hitting rock bottom and wanting to do something about it before there is even the slightest chance of them getting sober.

Hang in there
xoxo

ZiggyB

I don't think you need to worry about him, the intense amount of guilt I felt also kept me with my ex but he found a job and is doing fine now (as far as I am aware), I actually think all the worrying and nagging just ends up making things worse. The moodiness is caused by drinking and it is irritating, to be sure.