Taking a step back as lawyer's got me thinking I should try the high road
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,038
Taking a step back as lawyer's got me thinking I should try the high road
I was all ready to go get a restraining order. My sleeves were rolled up, and my combat boots tightly fastened. And then I spoke to my lawyer.
10 years of experience in divorce cases tells him that the way a divorce begins is extremely important. If I begin by going to the judge (it works differently here) and bring in lots of evidence, etc. I can have my restraining order in 5 weeks or so. Not before Christmas.
If I start out by taking the high road, and keep talking like I'm learning to from Al Anon, maybe I can just kindly ask my AH for a divorce and we can keep it simple and this would be for the best.
And so after talking to my lawyer I took a walk in the sunshine and I felt very strongly that my HP is telling me to take the high road.
Okay, but I'm not a fool. My AH is unstable and cruel. And he does what he wants to do, regardless of what is right or any promises he makes.
I have 3 weeks on this side of the ocean before he returns. But then what. It'll be 10 days before Christmas, and there he'll be trying to provoke me, trying to keep me preoccupied with his need to see the children, trying to get me alone with him... he might decide to just do what he wants to do and try to get into our home regardless of any previous agreement...
He is dangerous. My lawyer doesn't necessarily have a lot of experience with this kind of situation is my guess. And only I (and perhaps my mother and children) know my AH as Mr. Hyde. Easy to say take the high road when all you know is Jekyll.
But something is telling me I should listen to my HP, ask kindly for a divorce and wait and see how he responds. If I don't try this approach now, I'll never know if it might have worked.
In the meantime I'm relatively safe, thanks to Mrs. Atlantic Ocean.
I remain grateful for all of your words of encouragement and support. This would be so much harder without all of you and without the help of my friends. Thank you.
10 years of experience in divorce cases tells him that the way a divorce begins is extremely important. If I begin by going to the judge (it works differently here) and bring in lots of evidence, etc. I can have my restraining order in 5 weeks or so. Not before Christmas.
If I start out by taking the high road, and keep talking like I'm learning to from Al Anon, maybe I can just kindly ask my AH for a divorce and we can keep it simple and this would be for the best.
And so after talking to my lawyer I took a walk in the sunshine and I felt very strongly that my HP is telling me to take the high road.
Okay, but I'm not a fool. My AH is unstable and cruel. And he does what he wants to do, regardless of what is right or any promises he makes.
I have 3 weeks on this side of the ocean before he returns. But then what. It'll be 10 days before Christmas, and there he'll be trying to provoke me, trying to keep me preoccupied with his need to see the children, trying to get me alone with him... he might decide to just do what he wants to do and try to get into our home regardless of any previous agreement...
He is dangerous. My lawyer doesn't necessarily have a lot of experience with this kind of situation is my guess. And only I (and perhaps my mother and children) know my AH as Mr. Hyde. Easy to say take the high road when all you know is Jekyll.
But something is telling me I should listen to my HP, ask kindly for a divorce and wait and see how he responds. If I don't try this approach now, I'll never know if it might have worked.
In the meantime I'm relatively safe, thanks to Mrs. Atlantic Ocean.
I remain grateful for all of your words of encouragement and support. This would be so much harder without all of you and without the help of my friends. Thank you.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: northeast
Posts: 468
I have no experience with domestic violence, hopefully your lawyer does. It does seem like a restraining order may provoke him and turn the divorce nasty. However, if you truly fear for you life through violence, then you would have no choice.
Did he get physical or threatening in his last visit?
Did he get physical or threatening in his last visit?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
"He is dangerous. My lawyer doesn't necessarily have a lot of experience with this kind of situation is my guess".
I read your last thread saying you were headed to get a restraining order - I assume something must have happened while he was here that made you want to do that. I agree with the attorney that how you start a divorce can set the tone; however by your admission your AH is dangerous and you don't believe your attorney has much experience with this type of situation.
I am just worried for your safety. Perhaps discussing the divorce while he is out of the country may be an option?
In my state you can get a TPO (temporary protective order) immediately, you do have to go to court a couple of weeks later to make it permanent. I really haven't heard of it taking 5 weeks to get a restraining order but maybe this was something just involved with the divorce?
Will be praying for you I have been keeping up with your situation. - I hope that AH will respond to an amicable divorce.
I read your last thread saying you were headed to get a restraining order - I assume something must have happened while he was here that made you want to do that. I agree with the attorney that how you start a divorce can set the tone; however by your admission your AH is dangerous and you don't believe your attorney has much experience with this type of situation.
I am just worried for your safety. Perhaps discussing the divorce while he is out of the country may be an option?
In my state you can get a TPO (temporary protective order) immediately, you do have to go to court a couple of weeks later to make it permanent. I really haven't heard of it taking 5 weeks to get a restraining order but maybe this was something just involved with the divorce?
Will be praying for you I have been keeping up with your situation. - I hope that AH will respond to an amicable divorce.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 109
Hi Pippi, thanks so much for sharing your experience. I only recently initiated a divorce from my AH. I don't have a lot of experience on this topic but a couple thoughts: have you contacted a domestic violence center? They will have experience with this and they may give you advice that differs from your attorney's. If you decide to start the divorce proceedings first, you should get confirmation from your lawyer that he will move swiftly on the case (this is not guaranteed even in an urgent situation like yours) and you may want to ask your lawyer about how your AH or his lawyer could slow things down. I served my AH the papers myself (instead of the Sheriff doing it) and he then supposedly mailed the papers to the court instead of returning them to my lawyer, so they were lost and we had to have him sign everything again. It delayed things by a couple of weeks. (A typical passive aggressive maneuver on my AH's part--I should have known!)
I'm so glad you have 3 weeks of peace. I hope you can fit in lots more walks in the sunshine--they are good medicine!
I'm so glad you have 3 weeks of peace. I hope you can fit in lots more walks in the sunshine--they are good medicine!
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,618
It is very hard for me to offer suggestions like this, as I myself have had no personal experience with regards to these types of situations. All i can say is I think I would try and listen to myself, and do what I thought was right and safest for me and my children. You know your AH better than your lawyer. Stay emotionally and physically safe! Hope everything goes smoother than you may anticipate...
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,038
The laws and the way they go about things here are quite different from things in the U.S. So that's why it takes so long to get a restraining order in my situation, which would be in response to my husband's threatening violence and aggressive demeanor last month. I didn't go directly to get an order then because at the time, it would have jeopardized my ability to live here long term.
Now I have things in place so that I can get the restraining order if I want it. But since this wouldn't be in response to an immediate danger, it would take time and my lawyer would have to put together a lot of evidence. Unless I press for something immediate, which I could also do. At least that's how I understand it.
On this visit, I was never with him except during the day in public places, so no chance for him to get scary with me. He kept trying to get me to be alone with him, but I held him off.
My AH has been verbally and emotionally abusive for a very long time. He has also pushed me down on occasion and when he is angry he blocks the door or stands in front of the car so that I can't leave. But it isn't what he has done before that is so frightening. It's his demeanor. It's like having a dementor (for those of you who know Harry Potter) in the house. Like he's going to get at me and pull the life out of me. Very creepy. I've never experienced anything like it before, and it makes me wonder if he is psychotic or on drugs or if that is all caused by alcohol.
Last time he was here he scared me like never before and came at me saying that I was finally going to get it. I barely got away from him as he was aggressing towards me.
The good thing about that is that it shattered any slight miniscule thinking I might have had that things could be worked out so that we could stay together for the children. That was my absolute and total bottom, which is great - because right now I'm flying, I'm so glad to be free!!!
I think I need to get this divorce thing on the table with him (via airmail) this week. Although even if he reacts nicely, that doesn't guarantee anything.
My dream is that he checks into rehab for the holiday. Somewhere far away. We need a Christmas miracle!
Now I have things in place so that I can get the restraining order if I want it. But since this wouldn't be in response to an immediate danger, it would take time and my lawyer would have to put together a lot of evidence. Unless I press for something immediate, which I could also do. At least that's how I understand it.
On this visit, I was never with him except during the day in public places, so no chance for him to get scary with me. He kept trying to get me to be alone with him, but I held him off.
My AH has been verbally and emotionally abusive for a very long time. He has also pushed me down on occasion and when he is angry he blocks the door or stands in front of the car so that I can't leave. But it isn't what he has done before that is so frightening. It's his demeanor. It's like having a dementor (for those of you who know Harry Potter) in the house. Like he's going to get at me and pull the life out of me. Very creepy. I've never experienced anything like it before, and it makes me wonder if he is psychotic or on drugs or if that is all caused by alcohol.
Last time he was here he scared me like never before and came at me saying that I was finally going to get it. I barely got away from him as he was aggressing towards me.
The good thing about that is that it shattered any slight miniscule thinking I might have had that things could be worked out so that we could stay together for the children. That was my absolute and total bottom, which is great - because right now I'm flying, I'm so glad to be free!!!
I think I need to get this divorce thing on the table with him (via airmail) this week. Although even if he reacts nicely, that doesn't guarantee anything.
My dream is that he checks into rehab for the holiday. Somewhere far away. We need a Christmas miracle!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,826
Listen to your higher power but at the same time row towards shore. Which means be practical and do what you need to do to be safe. From the little I,ve read it doesn,t sound like things will go well with him no matter what you do andhe sounds pretty unstable and dangerous. Bottom line people like your AH don,t like to feel any power is being taken away from them.
Originally Posted by PippiLngstockng 
The laws and the way they go about things here are quite different from things in the U.S. So that's why it takes so long to get a restraining order in my situation, which would be in response to my husband's threatening violence and aggressive demeanor last month. I didn't go directly to get an order then because at the time, it would have jeopardized my ability to live here long term.
Now I have things in place so that I can get the restraining order if I want it. But since this wouldn't be in response to an immediate danger, it would take time and my lawyer would have to put together a lot of evidence. Unless I press for something immediate, which I could also do. At least that's how I understand it.
On this visit, I was never with him except during the day in public places, so no chance for him to get scary with me. He kept trying to get me to be alone with him, but I held him off.
My AH has been verbally and emotionally abusive for a very long time. He has also pushed me down on occasion and when he is angry he blocks the door or stands in front of the car so that I can't leave. But it isn't what he has done before that is so frightening. It's his demeanor. It's like having a dementor (for those of you who know Harry Potter) in the house. Like he's going to get at me and pull the life out of me. Very creepy. I've never experienced anything like it before, and it makes me wonder if he is psychotic or on drugs or if that is all caused by alcohol.
Last time he was here he scared me like never before and came at me saying that I was finally going to get it. I barely got away from him as he was aggressing towards me.
The good thing about that is that it shattered any slight miniscule thinking I might have had that things could be worked out so that we could stay together for the children. That was my absolute and total bottom, which is great - because right now I'm flying, I'm so glad to be free!!!
I think I need to get this divorce thing on the table with him (via airmail) this week. Although even if he reacts nicely, that doesn't guarantee anything.
My dream is that he checks into rehab for the holiday. Somewhere far away. We need a Christmas miracle!
Now I have things in place so that I can get the restraining order if I want it. But since this wouldn't be in response to an immediate danger, it would take time and my lawyer would have to put together a lot of evidence. Unless I press for something immediate, which I could also do. At least that's how I understand it.
On this visit, I was never with him except during the day in public places, so no chance for him to get scary with me. He kept trying to get me to be alone with him, but I held him off.
My AH has been verbally and emotionally abusive for a very long time. He has also pushed me down on occasion and when he is angry he blocks the door or stands in front of the car so that I can't leave. But it isn't what he has done before that is so frightening. It's his demeanor. It's like having a dementor (for those of you who know Harry Potter) in the house. Like he's going to get at me and pull the life out of me. Very creepy. I've never experienced anything like it before, and it makes me wonder if he is psychotic or on drugs or if that is all caused by alcohol.
Last time he was here he scared me like never before and came at me saying that I was finally going to get it. I barely got away from him as he was aggressing towards me.
The good thing about that is that it shattered any slight miniscule thinking I might have had that things could be worked out so that we could stay together for the children. That was my absolute and total bottom, which is great - because right now I'm flying, I'm so glad to be free!!!
I think I need to get this divorce thing on the table with him (via airmail) this week. Although even if he reacts nicely, that doesn't guarantee anything.
My dream is that he checks into rehab for the holiday. Somewhere far away. We need a Christmas miracle!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,754
He is dangerous. My lawyer doesn't necessarily have a lot of experience with this kind of situation is my guess. And only I (and perhaps my mother and children) know my AH as Mr. Hyde. Easy to say take the high road when all you know is Jekyll.
Be prepared when he arrives, it could be war.
A plan in place for the safety of all involved may be a good idea.
Be prepared when he arrives, it could be war.
A plan in place for the safety of all involved may be a good idea.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 654
Your AH sounds like a very scary and unstable man. Please always put your safety first.
I hope that he responds well about the divorce and that it can be done swiftly. It's so fustrating that even when they act agreeable and reasonable it never means they will go through with their promises. Their manipulation and lies know no bounds.
Stay safe and enjoy the time you have with him across the ocean. I'm happy you feel free and that you are ready to move forward.
Stay safe and you will be in my thoughts,
Maylie
I hope that he responds well about the divorce and that it can be done swiftly. It's so fustrating that even when they act agreeable and reasonable it never means they will go through with their promises. Their manipulation and lies know no bounds.
Stay safe and enjoy the time you have with him across the ocean. I'm happy you feel free and that you are ready to move forward.
Stay safe and you will be in my thoughts,
Maylie
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
The lawyer's advice would be right on IF your husband wasn't an alcoholic. But he doesn't understand that talk is completely pointless with an active alcoholic. I suggest keeping to your original plan OR getting another lawyer.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,452
"The lawyer's advice would be right on IF your husband wasn't an alcoholic. But he doesn't understand that talk is completely pointless with an active alcoholic. I suggest keeping to your original plan OR getting another lawyer."
I'm with NYCdoglvr here. I am worried about you and your children's safety.
"10 years of experience in divorce cases tells my lawyer that the way a divorce begins is extremely important... maybe I can just kindly ask my AH for a divorce and we can keep it simple and this would be for the best."
So, the next question is "Yes, that is your lawyer's 10 years of experience, but what is your 10 years of experience being married to this man?
You've answered that very well:
"Okay, but I'm not a fool. My AH is unstable and cruel. And he does what he wants to do, regardless of what is right or any promises he makes.
I have 3 weeks on this side of the ocean before he returns. But then what. It'll be 10 days before Christmas, and there he'll be trying to provoke me, trying to keep me preoccupied with his need to see the children, trying to get me alone with him... he might decide to just do what he wants to do and try to get into our home regardless of any previous agreement...
He is dangerous. My lawyer doesn't necessarily have a lot of experience with this kind of situation is my guess. And only I (and perhaps my mother and children) know my AH as Mr. Hyde. Easy to say take the high road when all you know is Jekyll."
People tend to repeat this behavior patterns. And, as an alcoholism progresses, unless it is checked, the behavior tends to get worse. You have acknowledge this already:
"My AH has been verbally and emotionally abusive for a very long time. He has also pushed me down on occasion and when he is angry he blocks the door or stands in front of the car so that I can't leave. But it isn't what he has done before that is so frightening. It's his demeanor. It's like having a dementor (for those of you who know Harry Potter) in the house. Like he's going to get at me and pull the life out of me. Very creepy. I've never experienced anything like it before, and it makes me wonder if he is psychotic or on drugs or if that is all caused by alcohol.
Last time he was here he scared me like never before and came at me saying that I was finally going to get it. I barely got away from him as he was aggressing towards me."
From what you've said, I don't find anything that suggests your AH would respond well to any suggestion of divorce at all; he wants what he wants just how he wants it, and d%mn the consequences.
What your lawyer isn't getting is that this divorce has ALREADY begun, and your AH has set the rules of engagement already, and they are cruel, aggressive, physically threatening, physically violent, totally without boundaries for him, including his possibly breaking into your home, and totally without regard for consequences to you and your kids.
I would suggest you get in touch with a domestic violence agency in your area and get referrals to other lawyers who have lots of experience in dealing with divorces in situations with addicted and volatile spouses.
It would be much more helpful to have a lawyer who thinks like a chess player and can anticipate the variety of responses your out-of-control AH might have to any specific action that you take in the divorce process. For example, I don't want to be an alarmist, but the thought has occurred to me that if you sent a written notice to your AH that you intend to divorce while he is across the ocean, he could just get on a plane and come to where you are then. Do you have a plan for that circumstance?
It is far better to anticipate the worst and be totally prepared for it, and have things go well, than to be naive about the possible consequences of trying to be nice.
Alanon doesn't really ask you "to take the high road"; what it says is to look out for your own life and your children first, regardless of the consequences for your alcoholic. I'd imagine that "taking the high road" can mean to not descend into the alcoholic's h#llish behavior and respond in kind. But that does not mean turning a blind eye to the alcoholic's potential for violence and destruction. And in this case, your AH has literally threatened you "I am going to get you".
The three C's say about alcoholism:
You didn't cause it
You can't control it
You can't cure it
Beyond that, Alanon tells you to take care of what you CAN control: figuring out and doing what you and your family needs, first of all to protect you all and stay safe, and then, to recover to a healthier happier life for all of you, regardless of what your AH chooses.
Have you gone to the police about that threat? At least put it on the record, and tell them that you want on alert for the actual date when your AH returns to the country. Then if you call, they will take any current call more seriously.
Take what you want, leave the rest; I am just very concerned for your safety, and sending you my warmest good wishes.
ShootingStar1
I'm with NYCdoglvr here. I am worried about you and your children's safety.
"10 years of experience in divorce cases tells my lawyer that the way a divorce begins is extremely important... maybe I can just kindly ask my AH for a divorce and we can keep it simple and this would be for the best."
So, the next question is "Yes, that is your lawyer's 10 years of experience, but what is your 10 years of experience being married to this man?
You've answered that very well:
"Okay, but I'm not a fool. My AH is unstable and cruel. And he does what he wants to do, regardless of what is right or any promises he makes.
I have 3 weeks on this side of the ocean before he returns. But then what. It'll be 10 days before Christmas, and there he'll be trying to provoke me, trying to keep me preoccupied with his need to see the children, trying to get me alone with him... he might decide to just do what he wants to do and try to get into our home regardless of any previous agreement...
He is dangerous. My lawyer doesn't necessarily have a lot of experience with this kind of situation is my guess. And only I (and perhaps my mother and children) know my AH as Mr. Hyde. Easy to say take the high road when all you know is Jekyll."
People tend to repeat this behavior patterns. And, as an alcoholism progresses, unless it is checked, the behavior tends to get worse. You have acknowledge this already:
"My AH has been verbally and emotionally abusive for a very long time. He has also pushed me down on occasion and when he is angry he blocks the door or stands in front of the car so that I can't leave. But it isn't what he has done before that is so frightening. It's his demeanor. It's like having a dementor (for those of you who know Harry Potter) in the house. Like he's going to get at me and pull the life out of me. Very creepy. I've never experienced anything like it before, and it makes me wonder if he is psychotic or on drugs or if that is all caused by alcohol.
Last time he was here he scared me like never before and came at me saying that I was finally going to get it. I barely got away from him as he was aggressing towards me."
From what you've said, I don't find anything that suggests your AH would respond well to any suggestion of divorce at all; he wants what he wants just how he wants it, and d%mn the consequences.
What your lawyer isn't getting is that this divorce has ALREADY begun, and your AH has set the rules of engagement already, and they are cruel, aggressive, physically threatening, physically violent, totally without boundaries for him, including his possibly breaking into your home, and totally without regard for consequences to you and your kids.
I would suggest you get in touch with a domestic violence agency in your area and get referrals to other lawyers who have lots of experience in dealing with divorces in situations with addicted and volatile spouses.
It would be much more helpful to have a lawyer who thinks like a chess player and can anticipate the variety of responses your out-of-control AH might have to any specific action that you take in the divorce process. For example, I don't want to be an alarmist, but the thought has occurred to me that if you sent a written notice to your AH that you intend to divorce while he is across the ocean, he could just get on a plane and come to where you are then. Do you have a plan for that circumstance?
It is far better to anticipate the worst and be totally prepared for it, and have things go well, than to be naive about the possible consequences of trying to be nice.
Alanon doesn't really ask you "to take the high road"; what it says is to look out for your own life and your children first, regardless of the consequences for your alcoholic. I'd imagine that "taking the high road" can mean to not descend into the alcoholic's h#llish behavior and respond in kind. But that does not mean turning a blind eye to the alcoholic's potential for violence and destruction. And in this case, your AH has literally threatened you "I am going to get you".
The three C's say about alcoholism:
You didn't cause it
You can't control it
You can't cure it
Beyond that, Alanon tells you to take care of what you CAN control: figuring out and doing what you and your family needs, first of all to protect you all and stay safe, and then, to recover to a healthier happier life for all of you, regardless of what your AH chooses.
Have you gone to the police about that threat? At least put it on the record, and tell them that you want on alert for the actual date when your AH returns to the country. Then if you call, they will take any current call more seriously.
Take what you want, leave the rest; I am just very concerned for your safety, and sending you my warmest good wishes.
ShootingStar1
Today is a New Day
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,766
If you do decide to wait before filing for the restraining order, I do have a few suggestions...
Have an emergency plan in case you have to leave at a moment's notice. Have an emergency bag packed in an easy-to-access location, and save some emergency funds in a safe place as well. Make sure he can't/won't find them. Figure out how you'll get out, and where you'll be staying.
You may want to consider talking with one of your neighbors or a close friend. Abusive men tend to want others to view them in a highly positive light to reinforce the charade that you are the one who is crazy, so he'll likely behave better in front of a witness. Make sure this neighbor or friend is someone who will back you up, rather than succumb to the charade of Mister-Nice-Guy.
Keep all your proof in a safe, easy to access location, as well. This could be again with the friend, or the lawyer, or even keeping backup in multiple locations.
Do not let your guard down. Don't believe the act, if he uses it to keep you doubting your resolve to leave. And don't let him hurt you. Be prepared to file for the protective order as soon as he acts up, once you're safely away.
Absolutely seek assistance from a domestic abuse advocate, either via a hotline or in person. They can help you set up your safety plans, etc, as well.
Abusers are dangerous, and the most dangerous part of all of it is that they are so good at fooling the rest of the world. Mine was not physically abusive until the end of our "relationship" when he'd grab my arm to keep me still or attempt to hit me with thrown objects. I was fortunate I discovered the means to leave at that point; I do not want to know what would have happened otherwise.
I will pray for your safety.
Have an emergency plan in case you have to leave at a moment's notice. Have an emergency bag packed in an easy-to-access location, and save some emergency funds in a safe place as well. Make sure he can't/won't find them. Figure out how you'll get out, and where you'll be staying.
You may want to consider talking with one of your neighbors or a close friend. Abusive men tend to want others to view them in a highly positive light to reinforce the charade that you are the one who is crazy, so he'll likely behave better in front of a witness. Make sure this neighbor or friend is someone who will back you up, rather than succumb to the charade of Mister-Nice-Guy.
Keep all your proof in a safe, easy to access location, as well. This could be again with the friend, or the lawyer, or even keeping backup in multiple locations.
Do not let your guard down. Don't believe the act, if he uses it to keep you doubting your resolve to leave. And don't let him hurt you. Be prepared to file for the protective order as soon as he acts up, once you're safely away.
Absolutely seek assistance from a domestic abuse advocate, either via a hotline or in person. They can help you set up your safety plans, etc, as well.
Abusers are dangerous, and the most dangerous part of all of it is that they are so good at fooling the rest of the world. Mine was not physically abusive until the end of our "relationship" when he'd grab my arm to keep me still or attempt to hit me with thrown objects. I was fortunate I discovered the means to leave at that point; I do not want to know what would have happened otherwise.
I will pray for your safety.
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