clueless on step 4
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: md
Posts: 208
clueless on step 4
Here is an example of my resentments:
I feel resentful at my boyfriend because he ignores me and this affects my self esteem. My part is that I'm expecting him to care, interact with me.
Is this correct?
I feel resentful at my boyfriend because he ignores me and this affects my self esteem. My part is that I'm expecting him to care, interact with me.
Is this correct?
It's a beginning.
What does your sponsor say? Please talk to her about this. It is better to have
face to face contact while doing a 4th and 5th step. Heck it is better to have sponsor
contact with ALL the steps.
Love and hugs,
What does your sponsor say? Please talk to her about this. It is better to have
face to face contact while doing a 4th and 5th step. Heck it is better to have sponsor
contact with ALL the steps.
Love and hugs,
I also sat there, frustrated with myself, trying to do a "perfect" 4th step...Then I just did it to the best of my abilities. Sure, it wasn't the greatest piece of work imaginable, but it got the job done.
Chances are if I continue with the program I will do another 4th step. PROGRESS, not perfection!
Chances are if I continue with the program I will do another 4th step. PROGRESS, not perfection!
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 449
After we've written down the items of self in the third column the text then provides us with some more instruction and more information.
That entire section can be broken down into questions and then instructions.
Ultimately once I review just how much my resentments controlled and dominated me, I was willing to follow these instructions.
So, I said the prayer with the person in mind.
It took me years to notice that the line "We avoid retaliation or argument" MIGHT just be talking about ME rationalizing and justifying things IN MY OWN HEAD. Afterall, I'm reading the text, following the instructions and I'm alone. Nobody but ME to argue with or retaliate against - oh - and those phantom people in my head. But, I'm by myself.
So I answer the question.
"Where had we been selfish, dishonest, self-seeking and frightened"
For people that ignore me. I view it as me being selfish, dishonest, and frightened. I'm selfish in that I'm not considering - maybe they've got other priorities. I'm probably dishonest because I don't politely ask if they have other priorities, and I'm frightened because I NEEED more attention than I get because I'm "not much, but I'm ALL I ever think about" and so should you.
Not you, you, but the rhetorical "you" here.
Similar resentment has occurred on my lists throughout the years more often than I care to admit it, but I'll admit it.
Describing my inventory to other folks in AA usually gets me "Sounds like a 3 year old", I own it. Since "owning" it and seeking to grow along spiritual lines I've at least attempted behavior, thinking, and even "feeling" like a rational adult. It's actually worked, but I need to be vigilant about it. That three year old is still in there, as the the scared 10 year old, the 16 year old, etc.. etc..
Inventory is vital. Good luck with it and I concur with the recommendations to find someone you trust in the fellowship to talk about these things with as well. A sponsor, a friend in the fellowship that you know has done the work etc..
I've found it vital, as vital as doing the work on my own. Often I'll hear things in meetings or on an MP3 that sound an awful lot like me - inventory wise - that I can own it and it sheds light on it for me.
We went back through our lives. Nothing counted but thoroughness and honesty. When we were finished we considered it carefully. The first thing apparent was that this world and its people were often quite wrong. To conclude that others were wrong was as far as most of us ever got. The usual outcome was that people continued to wrong us and we stayed sore. Sometimes it was remorse and then we were sore at ourselves. But the more we fought and tried to have our own way, the worse matters got. As in war, the victor only seemed to win. Our moments of triumph were short-lived.
It is plain that a life which includes deep resentment leads only to futility and unhappiness. To the precise extent that we permit these, do we squander the hours that might have been worth while. But with the alcoholic, whose hope is the maintenance and growth of a spiritual experience, this business of resentment is infinitely grave. We found that it is fatal. For when harboring such feeling we shut ourselves off from the sunlight of the Spirit. The insanity of alcohol returns and we drink again. And with us, to drink is to die.
If we were to live, we had to be free of anger. The grouch and the brainstorm were not for us. They may be the dubious luxury of normal men, but for alcoholics these things are poison.
We turned back to the list, for it held the key to the future. We were prepared to look for it from an entirely different angle. We began to see that the world and its people really dominated us. In that state, the wrong-doing of others, fancied or real, had power to actually kill. How could we escape? We saw that these resentments must be mastered, but how? We could not wish them away any more than alcohol.
This was our course: We realized that the people who wronged us were perhaps spiritually sick. Though we did not like their symptoms and the way these disturbed us, they, like ourselves, were sick too. We asked God to help us show them the same tolerance, pity, and patience that we would cheerfully grant a sick friend. When a person offended we said to ourselves, "This is a sick man. How can I be helpful to him? God save me from being angry. Thy will be done."
We avoid retaliation or argument. We wouldn't treat sick people that way. If we do, we destroy our chance of being helpful. We cannot be helpful to all people, but at least God will show us how to take a kindly and tolerant view of each and every one.
Referring to our list again. Putting out of our minds the wrongs others had done, we resolutely looked for our own mistakes. Where had we been selfish, dishonest, self-seeking and frightened? Though a situation had not been entirely our fault, we tried to disregard the other person involved entirely. Where were we to blame? The inventory was ours, not the other man's. When we saw our faults we listed them. We placed them before us in black and white. We admitted our wrongs honestly and were willing to set these matters straight.
It is plain that a life which includes deep resentment leads only to futility and unhappiness. To the precise extent that we permit these, do we squander the hours that might have been worth while. But with the alcoholic, whose hope is the maintenance and growth of a spiritual experience, this business of resentment is infinitely grave. We found that it is fatal. For when harboring such feeling we shut ourselves off from the sunlight of the Spirit. The insanity of alcohol returns and we drink again. And with us, to drink is to die.
If we were to live, we had to be free of anger. The grouch and the brainstorm were not for us. They may be the dubious luxury of normal men, but for alcoholics these things are poison.
We turned back to the list, for it held the key to the future. We were prepared to look for it from an entirely different angle. We began to see that the world and its people really dominated us. In that state, the wrong-doing of others, fancied or real, had power to actually kill. How could we escape? We saw that these resentments must be mastered, but how? We could not wish them away any more than alcohol.
This was our course: We realized that the people who wronged us were perhaps spiritually sick. Though we did not like their symptoms and the way these disturbed us, they, like ourselves, were sick too. We asked God to help us show them the same tolerance, pity, and patience that we would cheerfully grant a sick friend. When a person offended we said to ourselves, "This is a sick man. How can I be helpful to him? God save me from being angry. Thy will be done."
We avoid retaliation or argument. We wouldn't treat sick people that way. If we do, we destroy our chance of being helpful. We cannot be helpful to all people, but at least God will show us how to take a kindly and tolerant view of each and every one.
Referring to our list again. Putting out of our minds the wrongs others had done, we resolutely looked for our own mistakes. Where had we been selfish, dishonest, self-seeking and frightened? Though a situation had not been entirely our fault, we tried to disregard the other person involved entirely. Where were we to blame? The inventory was ours, not the other man's. When we saw our faults we listed them. We placed them before us in black and white. We admitted our wrongs honestly and were willing to set these matters straight.
Ultimately once I review just how much my resentments controlled and dominated me, I was willing to follow these instructions.
This was our course: We realized that the people who wronged us were perhaps spiritually sick. Though we did not like their symptoms and the way these disturbed us, they, like ourselves, were sick too. We asked God to help us show them the same tolerance, pity, and patience that we would cheerfully grant a sick friend. When a person offended we said to ourselves, "This is a sick man. How can I be helpful to him? God save me from being angry. Thy will be done."
We avoid retaliation or argument. We wouldn't treat sick people that way. If we do, we destroy our chance of being helpful. We cannot be helpful to all people, but at least God will show us how to take a kindly and tolerant view of each and every one.
Referring to our list again. Putting out of our minds the wrongs others had done, we resolutely looked for our own mistakes. Where had we been selfish, dishonest, self-seeking and frightened? Though a situation had not been entirely our fault, we tried to disregard the other person involved entirely. Where were we to blame? The inventory was ours, not the other man's. When we saw our faults we listed them. We placed them before us in black and white. We admitted our wrongs honestly and were willing to set these matters straight.
We avoid retaliation or argument. We wouldn't treat sick people that way. If we do, we destroy our chance of being helpful. We cannot be helpful to all people, but at least God will show us how to take a kindly and tolerant view of each and every one.
Referring to our list again. Putting out of our minds the wrongs others had done, we resolutely looked for our own mistakes. Where had we been selfish, dishonest, self-seeking and frightened? Though a situation had not been entirely our fault, we tried to disregard the other person involved entirely. Where were we to blame? The inventory was ours, not the other man's. When we saw our faults we listed them. We placed them before us in black and white. We admitted our wrongs honestly and were willing to set these matters straight.
It took me years to notice that the line "We avoid retaliation or argument" MIGHT just be talking about ME rationalizing and justifying things IN MY OWN HEAD. Afterall, I'm reading the text, following the instructions and I'm alone. Nobody but ME to argue with or retaliate against - oh - and those phantom people in my head. But, I'm by myself.
So I answer the question.
"Where had we been selfish, dishonest, self-seeking and frightened"
For people that ignore me. I view it as me being selfish, dishonest, and frightened. I'm selfish in that I'm not considering - maybe they've got other priorities. I'm probably dishonest because I don't politely ask if they have other priorities, and I'm frightened because I NEEED more attention than I get because I'm "not much, but I'm ALL I ever think about" and so should you.
Not you, you, but the rhetorical "you" here.
Similar resentment has occurred on my lists throughout the years more often than I care to admit it, but I'll admit it.
Describing my inventory to other folks in AA usually gets me "Sounds like a 3 year old", I own it. Since "owning" it and seeking to grow along spiritual lines I've at least attempted behavior, thinking, and even "feeling" like a rational adult. It's actually worked, but I need to be vigilant about it. That three year old is still in there, as the the scared 10 year old, the 16 year old, etc.. etc..
Inventory is vital. Good luck with it and I concur with the recommendations to find someone you trust in the fellowship to talk about these things with as well. A sponsor, a friend in the fellowship that you know has done the work etc..
I've found it vital, as vital as doing the work on my own. Often I'll hear things in meetings or on an MP3 that sound an awful lot like me - inventory wise - that I can own it and it sheds light on it for me.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3
I just completed my 4th step; what an amazing feeing.Work that I've never experianced plus the feelings of what I have missed the the excitement of the future. This is the Christmas present to me for Me and to share ......
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,902
here is what I did and still do with my resentments and anger
works just fine for me
anger/resentment is the number one offender
it must be rooted out and it can only be done with God`s help
it is a simple little process
there is a prayer I use-God,please have me do this work the way YOU want me to do it,please show me the truth about myself,help me to be honest,searching,through and fearless...Thank You!
we must be sure we ask God for help FIRST because anger/self etc keeps our perspective distorted!We need His Help to go thru the process and get back to HIM.
first I made a grudge list,then I transferred the names to column one
1. I list my anger-I am pissed off at my brother in law(example)-column one
After all my names was listed on my column one I then did column 2 and 3 at the same time,it was easier that way
2.I list why I am pissed-______________ -column two(do 2 & 3 before moving on to the next name)
3.then I list how it affects me-(self-esteem, our pocketbooks, our ambitions, our personal relationships, (including sex) were hurt or threatened. So we were sore. We were 'burned up.' On our grudge list we set opposite each name our injuries. Was it our self-esteem, our security, our ambitions, our personal, or sex relations, which had been interfered with?
4.After the 3 columns are complete, I pray for each name on my list,one at a time,not just lip service,but heart service.The Big Book gives me a good prayer to use,The Sick Man`s Prayer.These instructions are in the big book,chapter 5.
This was our course: We realized that the people who wronged us were perhaps spiritually sick. Though we did not like their symptoms and the way these disturbed us, they, like ourselves, were sick too.(The sick mans prayer)
We asked God to help us show them the same tolerance, pity, and patience that we would cheerfully grant a sick friend. When a person offended we said to ourselves, "This is a sick man. How can I be helpful to him? God save me from being angry. Thy will be done."
now comes the good spiritual part,I may have to pray for quite a while ,not just once,but for every name on my list,but time spent in prayer never hurt me!
(here is a good suggestion)
I need to pray the Sick Man`s Prayer untill............
(1) I can avoid retaliation or argument. We wouldn't treat sick people that way. If we do, we destroy our chance of being helpful. We cannot be helpful to all people, but at least
(2)God shows me how to take a kindly and tolerant view of each and every one....and during this prayer process I usually find my heart softing to where I want a good relationship with __________
ok,then I go to column 4 since I can see clearer and I am back into the Fellowship with the Spirit more than I was
5.Referring to our list again. Putting out of our minds the wrongs others had done, we resolutely looked for our own mistakes. Where had we been selfish, dishonest, self-seeking and frightened? Though a situation had not been entirely our fault, we tried to disregard the other person involved entirely. Where were we to blame? The inventory was ours, not the other man's. When we saw our faults we listed them. We placed them before us in black and white. We admitted our wrongs honestly and were willing to set these matters straight.
I just ask myself a few questions about each resentment and write out the answers the best I can and with God`s help I can see where self had got into my life and was killing me
here are the column 4 questions my sponsor had me answer for each resentment
1.Selfish:What did I want?
2.Dishonest:
what was the lie I told myself?
What would I not get or receive?
I thought _________________
I told myself_____________________
I pretended____________________
3.self seeking:
What did I do to get what I wanted?
How did I manuilapate?
4.frightened:
What was I afraid of?
What was the fear?(name it by name ,you`ll need it on your fear inventory next)
What might I lose or not get?
I am a alcoholic,this process works just fine,and is the AA program that will keeps giving me a daily reprieve and right relationships with God and others
A few word definations
Selfish:
only concerned with oneself or interests
Ambitions:
a consuming desire to achieve some object or purpose as to gain distinction or influence
Security:
Free from fear or danger
Self seeking:
Our actions based on our selfishness
works just fine for me
anger/resentment is the number one offender
it must be rooted out and it can only be done with God`s help
it is a simple little process
there is a prayer I use-God,please have me do this work the way YOU want me to do it,please show me the truth about myself,help me to be honest,searching,through and fearless...Thank You!
we must be sure we ask God for help FIRST because anger/self etc keeps our perspective distorted!We need His Help to go thru the process and get back to HIM.
first I made a grudge list,then I transferred the names to column one
1. I list my anger-I am pissed off at my brother in law(example)-column one
After all my names was listed on my column one I then did column 2 and 3 at the same time,it was easier that way
2.I list why I am pissed-______________ -column two(do 2 & 3 before moving on to the next name)
3.then I list how it affects me-(self-esteem, our pocketbooks, our ambitions, our personal relationships, (including sex) were hurt or threatened. So we were sore. We were 'burned up.' On our grudge list we set opposite each name our injuries. Was it our self-esteem, our security, our ambitions, our personal, or sex relations, which had been interfered with?
4.After the 3 columns are complete, I pray for each name on my list,one at a time,not just lip service,but heart service.The Big Book gives me a good prayer to use,The Sick Man`s Prayer.These instructions are in the big book,chapter 5.
This was our course: We realized that the people who wronged us were perhaps spiritually sick. Though we did not like their symptoms and the way these disturbed us, they, like ourselves, were sick too.(The sick mans prayer)
We asked God to help us show them the same tolerance, pity, and patience that we would cheerfully grant a sick friend. When a person offended we said to ourselves, "This is a sick man. How can I be helpful to him? God save me from being angry. Thy will be done."
now comes the good spiritual part,I may have to pray for quite a while ,not just once,but for every name on my list,but time spent in prayer never hurt me!
(here is a good suggestion)
I need to pray the Sick Man`s Prayer untill............
(1) I can avoid retaliation or argument. We wouldn't treat sick people that way. If we do, we destroy our chance of being helpful. We cannot be helpful to all people, but at least
(2)God shows me how to take a kindly and tolerant view of each and every one....and during this prayer process I usually find my heart softing to where I want a good relationship with __________
ok,then I go to column 4 since I can see clearer and I am back into the Fellowship with the Spirit more than I was
5.Referring to our list again. Putting out of our minds the wrongs others had done, we resolutely looked for our own mistakes. Where had we been selfish, dishonest, self-seeking and frightened? Though a situation had not been entirely our fault, we tried to disregard the other person involved entirely. Where were we to blame? The inventory was ours, not the other man's. When we saw our faults we listed them. We placed them before us in black and white. We admitted our wrongs honestly and were willing to set these matters straight.
I just ask myself a few questions about each resentment and write out the answers the best I can and with God`s help I can see where self had got into my life and was killing me
here are the column 4 questions my sponsor had me answer for each resentment
1.Selfish:What did I want?
2.Dishonest:
what was the lie I told myself?
What would I not get or receive?
I thought _________________
I told myself_____________________
I pretended____________________
3.self seeking:
What did I do to get what I wanted?
How did I manuilapate?
4.frightened:
What was I afraid of?
What was the fear?(name it by name ,you`ll need it on your fear inventory next)
What might I lose or not get?
I am a alcoholic,this process works just fine,and is the AA program that will keeps giving me a daily reprieve and right relationships with God and others
A few word definations
Selfish:
only concerned with oneself or interests
Ambitions:
a consuming desire to achieve some object or purpose as to gain distinction or influence
Security:
Free from fear or danger
Self seeking:
Our actions based on our selfishness
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,902
if you still hold anger again a person,institution,or Principle after you go thru this process,go to the story on page 552 and follow their directions about a deep seated resentment
every now and then a resentment doesn`t respond to the directions on step 4,chapter 5
every now and then a resentment doesn`t respond to the directions on step 4,chapter 5
May seem overwhelming, but once you start, it's really not that difficult. A sponsor is critical in showing you how to do this and to help you through the process.
You will probably find it difficult without a sponsor to take you through the work outlined in the book.
Try to focus on one step at a time in sequence, ...the steps interlock each other, for example step two will make more sense once you've, excepted step one entirely .
I would suggest a dictionary also, many words in the big book meant something entirely different to what i "assumed" they meant.
Someone with experience will be able to walk you through the steps, using the Big book.... and many of us here are only too willing to answer questions and share experience...be good to know how you get on.
Try to focus on one step at a time in sequence, ...the steps interlock each other, for example step two will make more sense once you've, excepted step one entirely .
I would suggest a dictionary also, many words in the big book meant something entirely different to what i "assumed" they meant.
Someone with experience will be able to walk you through the steps, using the Big book.... and many of us here are only too willing to answer questions and share experience...be good to know how you get on.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Severance Colorado
Posts: 150
I'm not a big fan of the fourth column. There is no "My Part" anywhere in the book. Once we look at "my part" we may allow ourselves to think the other person had a part also. We may also find ourselves trying to justify our actions or thoughts. We are instructed to disregard the other person entirely.
The whole thing is "my part" and the whole inventory is mine. Once we get past the "affects my" column we're done with that resentment.
Remember on pg 62 where it said "Selfishness and self centeredness were the root of our troubles? So we thought.
For this reason we can sum up a lot of resentments with "personal ambition" in column three. Start the sentence with
"I want" and we'll see that comes into play too. Maybe more than self esteem. "I want his attention". In fact I "expected" his attention.
Therefore the resentment affected your personal ambitions. Maybe not as much as self esteem. Maybe more. It doesn't matter. We don't list them in order of importance. We just list them.
The fact is, most all resentments start with "I wanted". Therefore affecting personal ambitions. Don't forget to remember on Pg 62 where it said We had to stop playing God? What happens here is your boyfriend is not acting the way "You Want" and you develop a resentment. Your boyfriend acts the way your boyfriend acts. That's Gods decision. The resentment is yours to put away when step six and seven come around.
That's the how and why of the 4th step and a precursor to the sixth and seventh step and why we do the inventory the way we do. We are not Counselors or Therapists. It relieves AA and its ranks of helping you with your relationship. We're not qualified. Therefore we help you and God take care of you and you only.
The whole thing is "my part" and the whole inventory is mine. Once we get past the "affects my" column we're done with that resentment.
Remember on pg 62 where it said "Selfishness and self centeredness were the root of our troubles? So we thought.
For this reason we can sum up a lot of resentments with "personal ambition" in column three. Start the sentence with
"I want" and we'll see that comes into play too. Maybe more than self esteem. "I want his attention". In fact I "expected" his attention.
Therefore the resentment affected your personal ambitions. Maybe not as much as self esteem. Maybe more. It doesn't matter. We don't list them in order of importance. We just list them.
The fact is, most all resentments start with "I wanted". Therefore affecting personal ambitions. Don't forget to remember on Pg 62 where it said We had to stop playing God? What happens here is your boyfriend is not acting the way "You Want" and you develop a resentment. Your boyfriend acts the way your boyfriend acts. That's Gods decision. The resentment is yours to put away when step six and seven come around.
That's the how and why of the 4th step and a precursor to the sixth and seventh step and why we do the inventory the way we do. We are not Counselors or Therapists. It relieves AA and its ranks of helping you with your relationship. We're not qualified. Therefore we help you and God take care of you and you only.
Sparkling Eyes-
Pages 50 to 52 in the 12 and 12 have a series of about 25 questions (written into the paragraphs) that, if you follow, and answer, will guide you through your 4th step pretty firmly.
Zube
Pages 50 to 52 in the 12 and 12 have a series of about 25 questions (written into the paragraphs) that, if you follow, and answer, will guide you through your 4th step pretty firmly.
Zube
(67)
I think the problem with stopping at a 3rd column is this
"The first thing apparent was that this world and its people were often quite wrong. To conclude that others were wrong was as far as most of us ever got. The usual outcome was that people continued to wrong us and we stayed sore. Sometimes it was remorse and then we were sore at ourselves. But the more we fought and tried to have our own way, the worse matters got. As in war, the victor only seemed to win. Our moments of triumph were short-lived."
For me the 4th column was an essential part of finding the truth and the lies.
I feel the fourth column is where the gravy is for me. It is easy for me to tell myself what others did (fancied or real) and even what it affected, but to look at where I was at fault, that is where I find my truth. That is where my character defects show themselves, so that I may look for resolution and relief from them in 6 and 7. Ignoring or skipping the 4th column, for this alcoholic, seems antithetical to the purpose of this step. If I am not clear on where my part was in the resentments, etc. then I am doomed to repeat them again.
For me, this is where rubber hits the road.
For me, this is where rubber hits the road.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Severance Colorado
Posts: 150
The way I see it is that the "Where were we to blame?" part is a second list that is separate from the inventory This is the beginnings of making a list of people we had harmed and owed an amend.
It says on Pg 67 "referring to our list again". That means we were referring to it as in "Reference" whos root word is "Refer". It doesn't say "Adding to the list" it just says referring.
Pg 76 "We have a list of people we have harmed and to whom we were willing to make amends. We made it when we took inventory"
There is an example of a three column inventory on Pg 65. If there was a fourth column, a fourth column would have been provided in the example.
As far as Pg 69 goes, that has to do with a different inventory as opposed to resentments.
However there is a small technicality on pg 65 where the book says "We were usually as definite as this example".
FWIW, I'm not arguing. I love this kind of stuff. I hope you do too.
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