iseult

Before I go any further, I'm the one with the addiction. Alcohol. This will be long, so skim if needed. I just need advice from people who have been where my fiance is.

He has been with me since this began a couple years ago. I was in a mental state of relapse most this time, though, because I thought since it happened so suddenly and so fast after a severe trauma, I was "cured" after rehab.

A couple weeks ago was the realization. I was in the hospital after a major actual relapse where I tried to wean off. I was medical detoxing, he came to visit and he found my stash. I hit him, trying to get it back. That was the moment I realized I'm an alcoholic. Who the heck was this person fighting for alcohol? What had I become? I can't even recall the thought process- it was the "disease" fear and addiction (whatever you want to call it) riddled version of me who did it.

Since coming back home, things have fallen apart. Wedding is cancelled (fair enough), and he says that even though I got the realization and have taken all the steps to address this fully and wholeheartedly (AA, SMART, outpatient addiction counselling, getting a job, reading other literature and getting back into my church), for him the realization came that he doesn't think he can move past how I was in the hospital. That when he looks at me, all he sees is me trying to get the booze back.

We're about to end our tenancy and in a few weeks won't have anywhere to live. Or, at least I won't. We just went to see a new place and he broke down, saying he doesn't think he can do this.

I've offered to have some of the men in my home group talk to him, or for him to go to Al Anon, but he says he doesn't think anyone can say anything to help him, including the couples counselling we're going to next week. And that I can't promise that this won't happen again. I told him no, I can't, but I can't promise I won't get cancer either. He became enraged at this, saying it's not the same thing at all.

I don't know how to explain this all to him, how this for me is a disease and much like someone with diabetes or an allergy, I am doing what I have to to keep it from happening again. I have full awareness now. However, whenever he sees me with literature or on here, he has to leave the room.

I need advice from someone on the outside. Two weeks ago, we were planning a wedding, getting a new place, and a dog. Now, his parents have taken back the money for our wedding and they want to use it to send me back to my home country, where I haven't lived for years and have nowhere to go. He says that my time-limited visa shouldn't be put on him- fair enough. But honestly, I don't see how sending me back will help anyone. I just want to help him and in our situation us being apart to get space would mean 6,000 miles with me not having anywhere to go when I get there.

He's so hurt, so angry, and just doesn't feel he can deal with this or should have to. How did you come to move past your addicted spouses/partners, how did you get through it? What can help? It's destroying me to see how destroyed he is.

Thank you.

Pelican

I was able to fully detach from my husbands addiction when I left.

Your addiction has dissolved any trust he may have had in you. Even in a medical crisis (detox can be deadly) you chose your addiction over your health. A diabetic doesnt eat an entire triple layer chocolate cake when they are trying to control their disease. A smoker with lung cancer doesnt chain smoke during chemo when they are trying to control their disease - well not the ones who are committed to making lasting changes in their life. Please stop using your dis-ease as an excuse for unacceptable behavior.

I am known as Pelican, and I am a recovering alcoholic.

This is his one precious life, and he has the right to choose how he spends it.

SadHeart

Sounds like he's coping very well--and you are not.

Sounds like he's making an intelligent decision, not to enmesh his life with a woman who is an alcoholic, who lied to him and was deceptive, who is out of control, who attacked him physically, and who has shown that up until she found herself homeless and facing deportation apparently cared more for alcohol than him.

He has apparently decided you will not make a good marriage partner and if he wants children, not a good mother for his children. He's decided he doesn't want to spend a lifetime fighting you over alcohol. He apparently is not codependent and has good boundaries and the ability to make difficult decisions rationally.

He apparently knows that 'love' can't overcome addiction and character flaws like resorting to violence and deception to get your way. And he's right, your 'love' for him didn't prevent you from drinking, attacking him and lying to him, did it. Love is not enough. He's not codependent; he understands that.

You might say, But it's a disease, I can't help it, I'm a victim, I was in denial, etc...

But those are YOUR problems, they aren't his. If you are marriage 50 years and more in love with each other than any other couple since the dawn of time, they still aren't his problems--and someone who really loved him wouldn't try to make them his.

I'm amazed that you would even consider having someone from your group 'talk' to him. What are you trying to do? Attempt to guilt, shame and manipulate into staying on with you? Is this really the best thing for him? It's best for you, but it's not best for him.

I understand you are concerned for your future. Homelessness and deportation are scary. But you didn't care about those things while you were drinking; why should he care about them? You expect him to be more invested in your future than you are?

I understand the gripe of addiction and the function of denial and all that--but none of those things are his problem any more than they are my problems. They are YOUR problems. Whether you should have addressed them earlier or not is not his problem either.

You said you recently got a job. Hopefully that will enable you to find a place of your own and will allow you to stay in the country (I know very little about immigration issues, but if you are allowed to work generally it means you are a permanent alien resident). I hope you have friends and family that will help you rebuild your life. Just understand it's not fair to ask him to risk his future and the future of his children on your problem.

I'm sorry for your troubles, but I'm glad your boyfriend is extricating himself from them. He cannot help you with your alcoholism and recovery, but you can make his life hell.

Tuffgirl

Well, I don't know if I can say it any better than Pelican did above.

I was the spouse of an alcoholic, who fought me for his "stash" too. That was a real defining moment in our relationship. Sadly, I am not sure he remembers that evening.

I moved out of our (his) home with my kids (not his) after 6 weeks sober and in AA. It was overwhelming - the emotions and anger. I also saw him to be rather non-committal about it all, and knew as long as I was around, I was his reason to drink and for drinking. You see - he was fine until I came along. Then the stress of living with someone as awful as me pushed him from social drinking to alcoholic drinking.

Now - from my perspective, this is all total bs. And to top it all off - he divorced me because he knew I wasn't going to live with him again as husband and wife. Really? He knows this? And of course, because nothing happened when he wanted it to happen, he decided he had run out of time for me to work through my recovery. More made up down-playing fantasy/magical thinking on his part. More arrogance and self-righteousness.

He didn't take any of this seriously, and with all due respect, I don't hear that you are either. Sure, you are doing all the right things. But I don't hear you acknowledging just how traumatic this may have been for him. That he has every right to seriously question his future with you. That he is afraid of potential future relapses. That you would be so bad off that you can't take care of yourself, much less your family. That your behavior is embarrassing on top of being frightening. How will he feel comfortable taking you to the next company party, for fear of how you may behave? What about his plans for the future he thought you both were going to have together? Don't you think those have significantly changed by now?

And on top of it all, he's now forced to embrace the recovery lifestyle in order to be in this relationship with you - something else he didn't plan on.

How about, instead of trying to fix him or convince him that all is ok, you back off and give him some space and respect to make the best decisions he can make for himself? Doesn't he deserve that?

If its meant to be, it will be. Either way, there isn't much control you have over this anyway, except in the decisions you make for yourself.

Good luck with it all; prayers to you for continued success,
~T

Fandy

this is a very different picture you are painting than the one in newcomers where you describe your in-laws as ruling your life and dissolving your relationship???

i'm the alcoholic and i do not define myself as having a disease....it's an addiction that i hope i have overcome, just like smoking.

Freedom1990

Hello Iseult. I agree with Pelican, he is coping and you are not.

I am a long-term recovering addict/alcoholic (22+ years now) and I guarantee you my relapse after 4 years clean/sober was not worth it. I got completely enmeshed in a relationship, and my feelings were dictated by him.

I had totally lost myself.

After he relapsed (he was in recovery too), I circled the drain and went down behind him.

End result was he left me.

Today I hold my recovery like the precious seed it is in my hand. There is no one, I mean no one, who I will give up my recovery for again.

Over the years I have been through a divorce, had a fiance walk out on me, been through the wringer with both adult daughters when they were teens, have been though many deaths of beloved friends, including those who relapsed (just last Wednesday one of my former sponsees was found dead). I have cried, screamed, pleaded to God, you name it, but I never picked up alcohol/drugs again.

I have been through a multitude of health issues, and am on permanent disability now due to spinal stenosis, degenerative disc disease, and major depressive disorder. I took a little ride in the ambulance a few weeks ago, had gotten very ill with vomiting/diarrhea for 4 hours and got so dehydrated I blacked out heading into the bathroom, hitting and splitting my head on the sink, and my blood pressure was 60/40.

I tell you these things not to brag, but to emphasize that you can get through anything with the support of others in recovery.

Because of my health issues, I can't make it to AA on a regular basis, I have a call list I use. I have a solid and admired female sponsor in NM. I come here a lot to reach out to newcomers (I have often been the only female in my home group for periods of years). I read the Big Book, grab "Codependent No More" at times to read. I read my morning meditations and thank God for another day.

Lots of prayers and a loving higher power have helped me tremendously. One of my old sponsors would look me straight in the eye and when I was floundering he'd say "I don't see any callouses on your knees yet." Man that would pi$$ me off, but later I realized what he was emphasizing the power of prayer. I had lost my conscious contact with my higher power.

I am proactive in my recovery, and I know that if I don't work on all three areas...physical, emotional, and spiritual, I am not worth a tinker's damn to myself and anyone else in my life. You know the drill, you have been through rehab as I have too. You can't give to others what you don't have.

Without a solid foundation in your own recovery, any relationship you have will be doomed. I speak from experience, after several failed relationships due to not being solid in recovery. I still needed a man to make me feel whole. Today I don't need a man. I am very content being on my own. I am stronger than I ever thought possible. You can be too.

Sending you hugs of support on gentle Kansas winds today!

Seren

Hello iseult, Welcome to SR!

I'm so very happy hear that you are currently embracing your recovery and doing what you need to do to lead a happy, peaceful, and sober life.

I'm afraid there is nothing that any of us can tell you to say to your fiance that will cause him to change his mind. Right now, it sounds as though he is doing what he needs to do for his own peace of mind, his own sanity, and his own happiness. If you really love him, you will support him in whatever he needs to do for his own welfare--not pressure him to stay with you because "this time I really mean it!" or "it's a disease--you wouldn't leave me if I had cancer, would you?".

As someone said on here once "I would if you kept going out to buy cancer at the store."

I would never tell your fiance to leave you, but I would humbly suggest to you that you allow him the freedom to make decisions for himself that will be the best for him.

Good luck with your continued sobriety! Keep up the great work!!

iseult

Thank you hydro! And I'm not trying to force him into anything or "change his mind", I just wanted advice about where he could go, what he could read, etc- anything really to help him keep this from being bottled up inside him. He has no idea how to cope (despite what someone said, he isn't coping) or process all he's thinking because honestly he's never had any type of crisis or bad situations of any kind in his life, so I was hoping for a bit more advice on here from F&f about what resources I could turn him toward- even if it's something like going camping or for a run, not necessarily al-anon related. If he leaves me, he leaves me, but I don't want him left with nothing if he does. He has no close friends or anyone he can talk to. The aftermath of a break up is hard enough without all this.

As for the other replies, I've taken what I can but please- I don't need personal attacks or guilt trips. I do that enough for myself. But thank you for your input. I got what I needed and I'll head back over to my side of the fence

LifeRecovery

I am in my own recovery for an eating disorder. I have been working my recovery for 12.5 years, over a third of my life (sorry I just realized that, and it is a little shocking). I don't say this to compare, just that I hope I am compassionate about the recovery of another.

During my own recovery (and as part of my healing journey). I met and married a man with problem drinking. Two weeks after we got married he got so intoxicated that he punched a window, kicked our dog and hurt his wrist so bad I thought I would have to bring him to the hospital (he would not go). He did not do this everytime he drank, but everytime he drank the potential was there. At times he would realize that alcohol impacted his life, other times he would not and he would fight with me about it.

He did not drink all the time, but I walked on eggshells all the time after that first incidence around his drinking. As our relationship was ending he said to me "You never forgave me for that, and you have been holding onto it for five years." He was correct, I had. That was really hard for me to hear at first, and I took a lot of on as a cloak of blame.

In the last couple of years though I realized that though I do need to forgive him for that incident, he had not done anything with sustained consistancy to show me that he was trying everything in his power to make sure that that did not happen again (actually the opposite). His words tried to tell me he was done, but his actions showed me something different.

I am quoting something above from you.

"A couple weeks ago was the realization. I was in the hospital after a major actual relapse where I tried to wean off. I was medical detoxing, he came to visit and he found my stash. I hit him, trying to get it back. That was the moment I realized I'm an alcoholic. Who the heck was this person fighting for alcohol? What had I become? I can't even recall the thought process- it was the "disease" fear and addiction (whatever you want to call it) riddled version of me who did it."

I am happy that you have had this revelation, and are doing what you need to do to keep your recovery. A few weeks for me though would not be enough for me as a loved one to trust the changes you have in place. Every day might add to that trust, but I would need more then just a few weeks to know if they were lasting, what the ripple impact would be, and if I even knew you as a person.

I read your posts ib both sides, and I see a lot of issues, some related to addiction, but not all of them. For me it was hard to tease all of them apart reading it, it must be confusing for you right now too, to be living them.

My own recovery has helped me to see that more will always be relieved and that though decisions do need to be made, they often don't have to be made five minutes ago like I think. That is probably true for all of us, those living with addictions and those who love us with addictions.

PS Sorry we cross posted. I hope I did not add to the trip you are already on. Taking care of myself (Alanon, therapy, physical exercise, meditation) etc all helped me. I knew about a lot of them for years though before I was willing to admit that I was living with a problem drinking and needed help around that. I was the perfect example of you can lead a horse to water but cannot make them drink. I know you will both find your way.

Tuffgirl

I am sorry you feel attacked, but again, I don't think you are actually listening to what others are saying here.

Its not your place to "guide" him, or "turn" him in the "right" direction. That's his place, his right, his decision to make. He's a grown man, right? Sure, you think he doesn't know how to cope, but did he ask you to ask others for resources to help him cope? If he didn't, then back off and let him find his own way. I imagine you wanted him to treat you with the same respect and dignity, right?

Alcoholics ask us - the codies/enablers/loved ones - to allow them to make their own decisions, yet its uncanny how many want to control ours at the same time. *Shaking head*

Seren

The sad truth is that we can no more control our fellow Enablers than we can control the alcoholics in our lives. You can certainly suggest that there are Al-Anon meetings he can attend. Many of us have found the Codependent No More books to be very helpful. Others attend on-line meetings or even rely entirely on forums like this one for support.

However, you can't make him do any of this anymore than he can make you stay sober. I hope that you both will have a very happy future, regardless of what form that takes.

ZiggyB

Sadly I don't think there's much you can do, what's done is done. It's time for you to focus on your own recovery and getting better.

Yes, he is hurt and angry and he has been through a major ordeal with you and probably just sees more of the same in the future. Trust is an important factor and if he feels he can't trust you there's no point in going on. I'm not trying to make you feel guilty, that's the truth of the matter.

After numerous broken promises and drinking binges by my ex, I was so angry and fed up I emotionally shut down. Even if he came to me now and told me he was in treatment I wouldn't care.

You can make your life better though no matter what he does.... that's the upside of all of this.

Freedom1990

These passages in the Big Book, 1st edition, has helped me see when I am not letting go of things in regard to others. It's about working on step 3.

I struggled with this step for a long time in recovery. Even though I believe in a higher power, my ego (Edging God Out) got in the way, and I was damned sure I knew what everyone needed.

I remember praying about my then addict/alcoholic husband, who I had left and relocated for my own safety and sanity. I cam't remember what I was praying for, but something came to me. I went over to my sponsor's house (70 yr old woman, 5' tall, but tough as nails. I spilled out my plan for him and that it was God's will. She looked me in the eye and said "that is NOT God's will, that is DeVon's will!" I deflated in milliseconds.

You can suggest Alanon, "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie, and counseling to him. Thats all you can do...suggest and then let go.

It took every miserable experience in my life to get to where I am today. I had no idea that was my HP's plan while it was happening. So, if I don't even know what God's plan is for anyone else, including my 34-year-old addicted daughter.

I work hard at staying out of the driver's seat these days. Again, give him those suggestions, and leave the results up to God, okay?

Hugs hugs of support my dear!

escapist

Counseling is good, however their purpose is not to talk him into going ahead with his commitment to you.

bamboo10

Just like nobody can make you not want to drink or go into a program when you dont wanted-you can't make him go to al anon or anything like that either.

OhBoy

For me I don't really remember any real crisis for me before my STBXAW, but there was certainly enough crisis during the time with her to make up for it! Every time there was another crisis with her, I learned how to cope in many wrong ways & lost my way from the right way to cope.

Alanon has helped me a lot! But I found my own way there. Just as an alcoholic must find their own recovery, so did I. Surely someone along the way told you that you should seek help. Did you act on that solely because they suggested it? Sounds like you found your own way to recovery, good for you! Be proud of it & keep the focus on yourself. You can suggest things to him, but keep in mind if you suggest it more than once you are trying to manipulate or control him & no one has that right. For me all I could do with my STBXAW was make a suggestion & let it go. The decision was then hers alone & I had said my peace. Best of luck in your recovery.
OhBoy

eveleivibe

Iseult do you really want to be with someone like that? You are trying your best to get sorted n if he isn't prepared to meet you half way by going to al anon or whatever, is this worth it???
I mean your recovery is going to be a big part of your life n if he can't accept this, keeps walking outbof the room, doesn't see counselling is going to work i don't know how you can make this work.
I hopw you all the best in your recovery xxx

eveleivibe

I think some of you are being extremely HARSH here. She has come here for advice not to be judged. She is in early RECOVERY have a bit of respect shes vulnerable too. Not being mean here- just suggesting people be a bit more tactful n think of other people's feelings.

So what if she's a bit conflicting between forums. Aint we all at times. We are human.

How qould any of you like being told your partner is making an intelligent decision to leave you? A bit hurtful. Ise, I'd advise you to stay out of the f n f until you're stronger in your recovery in. My opinion.

marie1960

Harsh????? Did not read anything harsh. I did read some painful truth that others took the time to share.........

Open wounds, partially closed wounds, infections, and scars, from life with an active alkie are here at friends and family, sometimes the truth just isn't comforting..........

Pelican

The words shared here are based on personal experience.
experience at having our lives become unmanageable beause of SOME ONE ELSES addiction.

They may appear harsh to an active addict.

Maybe, in the future, check which forum you are posting in and try sharing based on personal experiences for that area of the community.