My story and questions about co-parenting with an XAH

Old 11-15-2012, 08:07 PM
  # 1 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 109
My story and questions about co-parenting with an XAH

I am so thankful for SR. I found this site while my AH was in a 30 day treatment center. After getting my three little ones tucked into bed, I would curl up in my own bed with my phone and scour the internet for some kind of success stories regarding marriages that survived alcoholism. I knew of a woman in Al-anon who remained married to her AH and one lovely woman who has 4 children and whose husband went to rehab multiple times and she was still married.

While I couldn't find much on line for success stories, I did find this forum and I am SO THANKFUL for it.

So many of the posts read like pages out of my life story. The proverbial frog in the slowly heating pan of water was me. And then in April, my AH had a seizure in our bedroom one afternoon after complaining of feeling like he had the flu. I had talked to his Dr. a year prior to that, trying to figure out what was wrong (he's punching holes in the wall, up all night, angry about everything, always stressed about work, doesn't shower or shave, etc). I had finally talked my AH into going to a marriage therapist who also specialized in ADD (thinking maybe his inability to cope with work and life was ADD) but he failed to show up once and was late the second of 3 times (one time saying he had to "fix" his iPhone for two hours at the office so he couldn't make it) and now he says that therapy "didn't work" and he'll never go back.

Anyway, it turned out he was a closet drinker fast approaching the final stage of alcoholism. After the ambulance took him to the hospital, he told the ER Docs that his last drink was 2 weeks prior at a neighborhood party (that was the last time I had seen him drinking so I agreed). He was so used to lying and manipulating that he lied to them too, and we spent over $15,000 (his individual insurance deductible) on every test imaginable while he showed every sign of withdrawal (vomiting, headache, hallucinations, ripping out his IV repeatedly in an attempt to leave--once it was taped down so well he bit through it...). Every doctor and nurse that walked in the door heard from me about how his behavior has been so strange and NOT A SINGLE ONE of those "medical professionals" ever mentioned withdrawal. Finally, at the one week follow up visit after his hospital stay, his primary care Doc told us it was alcoholism. And then the veil fell from my eyes and everything started to make sense. He admitted that he drank vodka and chased it with Gatorade after work. I then found vodka stashed all over the garage and in his incredibly messy car and office. For a week I had to follow him around for with tranquilizers and drive him to and from work. Relapse, interventions, detox and rehab stays followed.

My AH is at an AA meeting right now, although he is still so angry, blaming, irrational, and unwilling to talk about anything that I don't consider him in "recovery". He's still secretive, dishonest, and blames me. His latest line was,"You keep bothering me so much about everything I've thought about cheating on you just to really give you something to complain about"!! Luckily I've become detached enough to just shake my head and walk away. I have since been able to understand that as passive-aggressive behavior, something that he really struggles with but has not admitted to himself.

Anyway, I have found incredible wisdom and strength through the words and experiences shared on this site. I cannot thank you all enough. I read how many of you were like me; how my life came to resemble a Greek tragedy where the most loving thing I could do for my AH was to leave him alone, to let him have the dignity of suffering the pain of his choices. It seems like a contradiction but it is the messy truth of life. For my situation, to love is to walk away. I cannot simultaneously provide a warm, nourishing home for my children and NOT enable my husband. By enabling him, the disease progresses. For awhile I thought that with abstinence, the anger and blame would go away. I thought we might have a few honest and open discussions. I have read that if I change, through years of Alanon, that he might change as well. After all the unkind things he's said, "might change" just isn't enough of a payoff for me to wager those precious years.

I no longer seek out marriage success stories. I've learned, mainly from this site, that while alcoholics are the same in many ways, they are also very different. Mine is angry and blaming: not something I can live with, not something I am willing to enable whether he is abstinent or not. As I work on building a new life out of the ashes, I feel more energized and more confident, although I still mourn the loss of the man who was my friend & companion and the two-parent home for our children. I know I will miss my AH's intelligence and sense of humor, but not enough that I am willing to sacrifice a peaceful home. I am lucky to have the support of friends and family. And SR.

Still, the question of how to proceed with my children and co-parenting with an A weighs on my mind. Are any of you struggling with that or finding ways to cope? For example, since I never know if he is sober or not, there is no way I will strap our 3 kids into his car and wave goodbye. How do I keep that from happening, since they are his kids too. Breathalyzer test? And who's to say he won't drink while they are out somewhere? My attorney says that usually what happens is that one of the older kids will report that their AP has been drinking and then visitation is restricted. But I couldn't tell when my AH was drinking, how can I expect my 8 year old to--and why is that an OK position for him to be in?!? Right now, I am aiming for having the children live with me full-time, and he gets supervised visitation and no driving. Does that sound realistic? Who could ask a mother to hand her children over to a lying, closet drinker who is in the late stage of alcoholism? Despite all the rehab he is deeply in denial. I know he loves his kids, but I don't trust him to make good decisions any more, whatsoever.
BtheChange is offline  
Old 11-15-2012, 08:29 PM
  # 2 (permalink)  
peaceful seabird
 
Pelican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Thank you for taking the time to share your story. You have had a very abrupt awakening! I'm glad you are here.

I have been divorced twice from alcoholic men. (Too young and naive to know alcohol was the problem the first time). I have children from both marriages.

This is what has worked for me:

I followed the standard outlines of my state for custody and visitation schedules. I am the primary custodial parent.

There is a clause in my most recent divorce that says my ex can not have alcohol around our child. But it would be up to me to enforce that rule. It is there if I feel the need.

I do not force the ex to keep up his visitation schedule. He lets me know when it is a *good* weekend for him to have the children. Believe me ~ if he doesn't want to spend time with them because there is an alcohol related activity that sounds more fun, I gladly spend more time with my children!

I don't use a lack of child support payments as a reason to deny visits. Both ex's have had hardship that prevented child support payments at some point in time. Child support is not an admission price for visitation.

I do not share adult drama with my children. I allow them to love their dad just as he is.

I do discuss alcoholism and give my children the facts, according to their age and ability to process the info.

Bottom line on visitation with an addict: it usually doesn't happen that often.
My ex does not know how to parent on his own, it makes him uncomfortable.
Pelican is offline  
Old 11-15-2012, 08:29 PM
  # 3 (permalink)  
Member
 
Freedom1990's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Originally Posted by BtheChange View Post
Right now, I am aiming for having the children live with me full-time, and he gets supervised visitation and no driving. Does that sound realistic?
That sounds very realistic to me. You are the only sane parent those children have and you are their voice.

Welcome to SR, and I hope you stick around. You have landed among many friends!

Sending you hugs of support from Kansas!
Freedom1990 is offline  
Old 11-15-2012, 11:26 PM
  # 4 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 490
Mine will only take the kids when it is "good" for him too. I don't care, more kid time for me, it's his loss.

He does not co-parent, he isn't interested. He blah blah blahs like like used to when he lived here, but it's all just blah blah blah. The actions never match the words.

He does not pay child support. If he has still paid nothing by this time next week the state will be garnisheeing his wages. He blah blah blahed to me that that was impossible as it would take a court order which I am incapable of getting. Little does he know that the state child support agency doesn't need a court order, it is the law, they will just take the money and send it to me.

What I think I am saying is that he is still all blah blah drunklish blah blah drunky pothead blah. NONE of his actions EVER match the blah - same as it ever was..

That's my experience.
Lulu39 is offline  
Old 11-16-2012, 04:32 AM
  # 5 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 109
Originally Posted by Pelican View Post
Thank you for taking the time to share your story. You have had a very abrupt awakening! I'm glad you are here.

I have been divorced twice from alcoholic men. (Too young and naive to know alcohol was the problem the first time). I have children from both marriages.

This is what has worked for me:

I followed the standard outlines of my state for custody and visitation schedules. I am the primary custodial parent.

There is a clause in my most recent divorce that says my ex can not have alcohol around our child. But it would be up to me to enforce that rule. It is there if I feel the need.

I do not force the ex to keep up his visitation schedule. He lets me know when it is a *good* weekend for him to have the children. Believe me ~ if he doesn't want to spend time with them because there is an alcohol related activity that sounds more fun, I gladly spend more time with my children!

I don't use a lack of child support payments as a reason to deny visits. Both ex's have had hardship that prevented child support payments at some point in time. Child support is not an admission price for visitation.

I do not share adult drama with my children. I allow them to love their dad just as he is.

I do discuss alcoholism and give my children the facts, according to their age and ability to process the info.

Bottom line on visitation with an addict: it usually doesn't happen that often.
My ex does not know how to parent on his own, it makes him uncomfortable.
Thank you. This is in line with my own thinking so far. My AH has no desire to set up a household of his own (his words: "I could live in a tent, I just want the kids") but he does want to be involved with his kids. We are in the early stages of the divorce, and right now he comes over every night between 7.30-8.30 to tuck in the kids. It seems to work for him and the kids, and while it was awkward at first for me, I use the time to take a break for myself, so it works for me too.

My instincts tell me that he is posturing to some degree, knowing that the divorce is coming. He has said things like "I have to be very careful, I just want the kids."

He wants to visit his family 3 states away for Thanksgiving. I couldn't let him drive the kids, so I said that I would drive them there, but I would like him to take his own car as well. I'm not thrilled about spending time with his family, but I think the kids will have fun. He has a lot of issues surrounding his family and his worst episodes/relapses seem to happen in relation to seeing/anticipating seeing his family.

I too agree that visitation can't and shouldn't depend upon child support. I have no idea how I'm going to raise 3 kids alone and on my income but I see from other posts that it can be done.

Thank you to everyone for responding. It's the first time I've started a thread and it seems like a small miracle to get your responses!
BtheChange is offline  
Old 11-16-2012, 05:48 AM
  # 6 (permalink)  
Member
 
Florence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
The proverbial frog in the slowly heating pan of water was me. And then in April, my AH had a seizure in our bedroom one afternoon after complaining of feeling like he had the flu. I had talked to his Dr. a year prior to that, trying to figure out what was wrong (he's punching holes in the wall, up all night, angry about everything, always stressed about work, doesn't shower or shave, etc). I had finally talked my AH into going to a marriage therapist who also specialized in ADD (thinking maybe his inability to cope with work and life was ADD) but he failed to show up once and was late the second of 3 times (one time saying he had to "fix" his iPhone for two hours at the office so he couldn't make it) and now he says that therapy "didn't work" and he'll never go back.

Anyway, it turned out he was a closet drinker fast approaching the final stage of alcoholism.
Are we twins? This is basically how my realization that my AH was a closet drinker went. He drank secretly for years without me knowing. We drank some at home, so I knew about that, but it didn't explain being passed out all the time, the mood swings, the inability to handle the business of adult life, etc etc. I thought he was depressed, and I scrambled for answers. After all, I have experience with depression and know how the process goes! Nothing worked.

I have no real answers, I'm figuring it out myself. Here's what I know:

If you suspect alcohol abuse when he is with the kids, either at pick up or drop off, call the police. He will either run and you have your answer, or they will breathalize him and you will have your answer. You don't have to send kids on a visitation if you reasonably believe he's been drinking. This is directly from my lawyer.

Clauses you can put in your custody and visitation agreement: no driving, supervised/unsupervised visitation, garnished wages for child support (this is pretty standard now), no drinking within 8-24 hours of seeing the children. Honestly, anything can go in your agreement if he will consent to it. A good starting point is to look up your state visitation guidelines, print them out, and see what you can and can't live with. Talk with a lawyer to see what they think is reasonable in your area. Are you a "chess player" when it comes to people? I hate being strategic with people, but I'm pretty good at it. This is a good time to think strategically for the long term well-being of your kids.

I still have a hard time identifying alcohol on a person. Hairspray, toothpaste, chewing gum, and deodorant all smell like alcoholism to me. I realized recently that they trigger my codie radar because these were what he used to cover up the smell of vodka. My flags are up all the time because these are products people use every day. That's my baggage. What I also know, however, is that when I know he's drinking, I KNOW IT, and I can't listen to his denials or argue with him about it. I just have to do what I have to do.

Peace to you. This is not what any of us wanted for ourselves or our kids. Just do the next right thing.
Florence is offline  
Old 11-16-2012, 06:29 AM
  # 7 (permalink)  
Member
 
Confetti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 230
I struggle with co parenting when ever my STBXAH shows up. I know that he loves his children (all three of them), but I just cannot trust him.

He recently told an elaborate lie to his lawyer and had a request written that he be allowed to see his children at his grandmothers home. I have been sticking to it, because I feel that an extra set of eyes (even if they are 86 ish year old eyes) is better. (she is in amazing shape for an old girl!) I allow him to have our children as long as I feel he is sober. He reeks of stale booze, but he is sober.

It is hard to leave them and so far he hasn't ventured too far with them because of his lack of car seats. I do not offer him the car seats and when he did request them, I said no. I am very uncomfortable with him driving them around.

I have taught my older two (4 and 7) how to dial 911.

Sometimes, he does act like he wants to be involved in their lives, but it is short lived. He has seen them a total of 4 times in two and a half months. His life is out of control, I can't Change that....and he doesn't want to.
Confetti is offline  
Old 11-16-2012, 07:32 AM
  # 8 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 109
Florence, that info really helped. I'm not typically a "chess player" with people, but when it comes to my kids, I will do what needs to be done. Despite what he says (quack!) my AH typically follows my lead when it comes to parenting, so I think I will attempt to set up the most strict limits in the terms of the divorce and then use my judgement on each occasion. I dread having to cause a scene in front of the kids. My therapist said the same thing you did: I may just have to call the police. Ugh.

I wish I were like you, I wish I could KNOW when he's been drinking but I still cannot tell, and I think that he has had some dry drunk episodes that look so much like he's been drinking. I do have plenty of evidence of his alcoholism and I have also proven to be open to him spending as much time as he likes with the kids, as long as it's supervised. So I am fairly confident that the terms of the divorce will allow me to maintain the situation we have now.

While I hope the divorce prompts him to start a real recovery, I don't count on it. If he doesn't make the change, he will probably be a "non-functioning" alcoholic in a short time. It is so sad, and like you said, nothing I ever expected or would want for any of us. I just started therapy and I'm getting a lot out of it. That, plus SR, is bringing the light back into my life.

Thanks again and have a peaceful day.
BtheChange is offline  
Old 11-16-2012, 09:02 AM
  # 9 (permalink)  
Member
 
dancingnow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 342
He wants to visit his family 3 states away for Thanksgiving. I couldn't let him drive the kids, so I said that I would drive them there, but I would like him to take his own car as well. I'm not thrilled about spending time with his family, but I think the kids will have fun. He has a lot of issues surrounding his family and his worst episodes/relapses seem to happen in relation to seeing/anticipating seeing his family.
JMO but if you are getting a divorce you might want to think about what works best for you around the holiday time. Yes it might be fun for your kids but perhaps it is time for you to establish some fun times that don't include having to drive to accommodate your AH drinking.

My experience is separation from my RAH for two years when he was actively drinking. Holidays were arranged where kids would be with me and he would pick a day/time when he could manage to be with them. He was pretty good about either being at home where there was no driving or not drinking when he travelled to visit relatives.

I think the reality of how drinking affects AH time with his kids needs to set in and until that time why should the non-A accommodate the A time with children. My kids were 9, 13 and 16 and even the 9 year old was told that if he didn't feel comfortable driving with his dad to call me or a friend's mom. It is tough and he had to do it one time and good thing because that was day my AH got a DUI.

I also went for years not knowing about the alcohol but it only gets worse and comes to the a point where you will know and maybe when the blackouts start your AH will take it more seriously.

Hugs to you (((BTC))) take care of yourself as you go through a very stressful time.
dancingnow is offline  
Old 11-16-2012, 10:04 AM
  # 10 (permalink)  
Member
 
lillamy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
Right now, I am aiming for having the children live with me full-time, and he gets supervised visitation and no driving. Does that sound realistic?
Realistic or not, that is most definitely what I would go for. And a clause that says the custody arrangement can be opened for discussion again after he has 18 months of documented sobriety.

I didn't, and I've regretted it.
lillamy is offline  
Old 11-16-2012, 10:31 AM
  # 11 (permalink)  
Member
 
Florence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
I wish I were like you, I wish I could KNOW when he's been drinking but I still cannot tell, and I think that he has had some dry drunk episodes that look so much like he's been drinking.
I spent a lot of time thinking, "Is he? Is he? Is he?" Like, months. That was a good sign he was white-knuckling it or riding the pink cloud. And also a sign that I wasn't focusing on myself enough and giving him my sanity and well-being.

The difference was when I knew he'd made the jump to drink again. Some of the best advice I received on this board was not to follow him around in fear, but to let go and know that the truth would reveal itself. Surely enough, he can only hide it so long. Eventually he gets sloppy and thinks he's got me in the bag. C'est la vie.
Florence is offline  
Old 11-16-2012, 11:39 AM
  # 12 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 391
BtheChange,
I am going through something very similar right now. (like literally TODAY with emails going back and forth with lawyers)
I don't think what you are asking for is unreasonable. You have very legitimate concerns and proof of his drinking. I have always remembered a post from Lillamy in response to my questions about divorce and custody that said she regretted not asking for stronger protections.
Please continue to use this place as a sounding board. There are moments when I have felt myself backpedaling and wanting to appease him (it's what I became accustomed to and I really don't like conflict). Thank goodness I've had this forum to keep me on track.

With regard to knowing or not whether he is drinking.....I was there too. He was very much a closet drinker. Then, it would start to show on him and I would confront. He'd white knuckle it for a while and pacify me. Then he would switch his booze of choice and hide in the basement to consume it. Again, eventually it would start to show again. An ugly cycle, it was.

Hang in there
Sending hugs
MamaKit
MamaKit is offline  
Old 11-16-2012, 07:37 PM
  # 13 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 109
Originally Posted by dancingnow View Post
JMO but if you are getting a divorce you might want to think about what works best for you around the holiday time. Yes it might be fun for your kids but perhaps it is time for you to establish some fun times that don't include having to drive to accommodate your AH drinking.
dancingnow, Most of my friends agree with you on that one. About a month ago, before we had moved out, I had said that I would go to Thanksgiving, and I feel compelled to keep my word. I might have to exercise my right to change my mind on this one. It is just such a strange time and so hard to know how to proceed. I don't know if he is drinking or not (he's definitely not in a recovery mindset, but might be white-knuckling it). I just don't want to take any chances that he might be drinking and driving with the kids. Plus, he's already had a seizure from withdrawal, so let's say binges, then he sobers up for his time with the kids and then has a seizure while driving. That's a grim worst-case-scenario, but sadly, a possibility.

MamaKit, I wish you the best in your divorce proceedings. I'm glad you're staying strong and not appeasing your AH. If he were in his right mind, he would want his wife to be a mama bear and protect his kids at all costs. I tend to be an appeaser too. But I'm getting better at standing my ground all the time. I'm working on carrying that through to all aspects of my life and once the confrontation is over I realize it wasn't as hard as I thought it was going to be.

Florence, I think you are so right about him showing his true colors eventually. I think he's on his best behavior in anticipation of the divorce.

Lillamy, thank you for the tip about reopening the custody arrangements after 18 months sobriety. That's not something I would have thought of. I feel like I need to get more of this kind of info out of my lawyer. As of now, my AH doesn't have a lawyer. It makes me think that he's just going thru the motions of "trying to get the kids" because that's what typical loving dads do. When things don't go his way he can blame me and say that he tried, and then get back to drinking himself to death. So sad.

I'll keep you all updated on the divorce. There's a lot of info to share on this topic. I don't want to regret being too lenient or appeasing. I was duped long enough.

Thanks for all the hugs everyone, they were much needed after this tough week. I hope you all have a great weekend!
BtheChange is offline  
Old 11-17-2012, 04:44 AM
  # 14 (permalink)  
Member
 
redatlanta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
I do not have children so I can't advise you there. I will say that many times my AH drinks and I cannot tell AT ALL. I know because for awhile he kept a bottle of vodka under the cabinet in the kitchen and I would look at it in the morning - then again once I got home seeing it drop as much as an inch and a half (big bottle) and absolutely zero effect that I could tell. Scary.

Hugs to you and I am sorry for the divorce but congrats on choosing a sane peaceful homelife for you and your kids.
redatlanta is offline  

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:34 AM.