This probably doesn't belong in this thread but.. I am new. Religion question???
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Bisbee az
Posts: 11
This probably doesn't belong in this thread but.. I am new. Religion question???
How do you all feel about AA and their heavy use of "God" in their steps, etc? I consider myself atheist, I left the church when I was fourteen. I'm going to my first AA meeting tomorrow with my friend, but I already know I'm going to be uncomfortable with the idea of "handing over my life to God". I know they emphasize "god as you see him" but can anyone recommend any other options? I live in a very small town... I am very big on the idea that I control my own destiny and everything I do is because of me, good or bad. I feel like bringing god into the equation would just set me up for failure. Please no preaching on this post!
A Day at a Time
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posts: 6,435
I have found AVRT to be very helpful. From a God perspective in AA it can be anything as long as it is not you. Before you go to your meeting read the Chapter to the agnostics in the big book on line. It is pretty straight forward on what a higher power is and is not.
There are multiple paths to recovery and I hope you find one that fits you.
There are multiple paths to recovery and I hope you find one that fits you.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 134
AA has worked great for me, but isn't the only option, of course. To each their own. But as far as AA goes, from what I understand it is just a "higher power"-which leaves much open for interpretation.
Go ahead and give the AA meeting a try. It can't hurt. Also, read some of the "Big Book"-it addresses a lot of these questions, as MIRecovery said.
Good luck!
Go ahead and give the AA meeting a try. It can't hurt. Also, read some of the "Big Book"-it addresses a lot of these questions, as MIRecovery said.
Good luck!
05/07/2011
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Pensacola, FL
Posts: 96
I attend NA and have had a greatly improved spiritual life that is certainly not defined by anyone else or a religion. Your higher power can be anything YOU decide. I like to sometimes think of my higher power as the spiritual principles that recovery has taught me to live me life by. Honesty, open-mindedness, LOVE, Willingness, etc. I find it very easy to turn my life over to trying to live by these principles and I think that fits a 2nd, and 3rd step well.
As far as the ones where you ask "GOD" things, ask the universe, just put the thought out there and believe that all the love in this world wants you to lead the life you seek to lead.
As far as the ones where you ask "GOD" things, ask the universe, just put the thought out there and believe that all the love in this world wants you to lead the life you seek to lead.
Powerless over Alcohol
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Trudging the Road to Happy Destiny!
Posts: 4,018
Like it has been said and will continue..
AA is not about religion or a faith. That is a totally seperate issue for each and every person to figure out.
Just go check it out, and see whats going on. Its only people wanting to live a life without drinking. Works for me. I am not religous at all.
AA is not about religion or a faith. That is a totally seperate issue for each and every person to figure out.
Just go check it out, and see whats going on. Its only people wanting to live a life without drinking. Works for me. I am not religous at all.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,889
How do you all feel about AA and their heavy use of "God" in their steps, etc?
I know they emphasize "god as you see him" but can anyone recommend any other options?
"...this was the great contribution of our atheists and agnostics. They had widened our gateway so that all who suffer might passthrough, regardless of their belief or lack of belief."
Bill W, AA Comes of Age.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 5,678
There was too much good stuff in AA for me to let the whole 'God' stuff get in the way. Really it is the language of it that puts me off. There seem to be very few people in the AA meetings I go to who take a religious view of it. I figured if they can do it so can I. My higher power is really Group Of Drunks, because I could never of gotten sober without the help of other alcoholics.
But a massive part of what attracts me to AA is that I am a massive control freak and need to let go. I think AA can teach me that. But if you have more faith in your self will maybe it is worth looking into AVRT or SMART, or both I use a combination of things to help keep me sober. There is no reason to rely entirely on AA.
But a massive part of what attracts me to AA is that I am a massive control freak and need to let go. I think AA can teach me that. But if you have more faith in your self will maybe it is worth looking into AVRT or SMART, or both
I use a combination of things to help keep me sober. There is no reason to rely entirely on AA.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Welcome, hcantral, to SR, Glad you found us here.
I thought your post was clear and easy to understand, you stated what you were looking for and asked for help in finding it.
There are plenty of alternatives to 12 step recovery that state that your belief or lack of belief in God or god ayuh is your business and irrelevant to sobriety. Look for information on Self Management and Recovery Training (SMART), LifeRing, Secular Organizations for Recovery, and AVRT, lots of info on the web.
SoberRecovery has a forum for discussions of these ideas called Secular Connections. You will find informed discussion and support there for you. Hope you find what you are looking for, and it just might be at that AA meeting.
Can anyone recommend any other options? I am very big on the idea that I control my own destiny and everything I do is because of me, good or bad.
There are plenty of alternatives to 12 step recovery that state that your belief or lack of belief in God or god ayuh is your business and irrelevant to sobriety. Look for information on Self Management and Recovery Training (SMART), LifeRing, Secular Organizations for Recovery, and AVRT, lots of info on the web.
SoberRecovery has a forum for discussions of these ideas called Secular Connections. You will find informed discussion and support there for you. Hope you find what you are looking for, and it just might be at that AA meeting.
Grateful to be free
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,680
You might want to take a look at the Proactive 12 steps online, google it.
It's about taking responsibility for your own life and choices, and reorganizing your life to reflect that. I have found it useful.
It's about taking responsibility for your own life and choices, and reorganizing your life to reflect that. I have found it useful.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
In the larger Arizona cities, like Phoenix, there may be AA meetings for agnostics and atheists. These are less likely in the smaller communities. My approach has been just to say little and go with the flow, get what you can out of it because there is some good stuff there based on experience. As pointed out by other folks on this thread, there are alternatives, like AVRT, secular parts of this SR website.
W.
W.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 48
I became a converted catholic after being athetist/agnostic most my life. This was before my drinking, and before AA. Yet, even though I'm a very devout Catholic, I simply cannot connect my God to AA. I don't know why. My higher power in AA has become sobriety in itself, and the people who support each other through it and understand what it's like. So when they say God, I pretty much just let it brush off me. When HP is discussed, I just think of the millions of people around in the world in various support groups, not just AA, who help each other get and stay sober.
It might be worth checking out SMART recovery as well- it's not religion based, and I've been using it to supplement my AA recovery because I felt AA didn't do anything to help keep me from relapsing, it only gave me a place of support where I could go if I did.
It might be worth checking out SMART recovery as well- it's not religion based, and I've been using it to supplement my AA recovery because I felt AA didn't do anything to help keep me from relapsing, it only gave me a place of support where I could go if I did.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 1,191
From chapter 4 of the Big Book of AA
"To one who feels he is an atheist or agnostic such an experience seems impossible, but to continue as he is means disaster, especially if he is an alcoholic of the hopeless variety. To be doomed to an alcoholic death or to live on a spiritual basis are not always easy alternatives to face.
But it isn’t so difficult. About half our original fellowship were of exactly that type. At first some of us tried to avoid the issue, hoping against hope we were not true alcoholics. But after a while we had to face the fact that we must find a spiritual basis of life—or else. Perhaps it is going to be that way with you. But cheer up, something like half of us thought we were atheists or agnostics. Our experience shows that you need not be disconcerted. "
"To one who feels he is an atheist or agnostic such an experience seems impossible, but to continue as he is means disaster, especially if he is an alcoholic of the hopeless variety. To be doomed to an alcoholic death or to live on a spiritual basis are not always easy alternatives to face.
But it isn’t so difficult. About half our original fellowship were of exactly that type. At first some of us tried to avoid the issue, hoping against hope we were not true alcoholics. But after a while we had to face the fact that we must find a spiritual basis of life—or else. Perhaps it is going to be that way with you. But cheer up, something like half of us thought we were atheists or agnostics. Our experience shows that you need not be disconcerted. "
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto ONtario
Posts: 80
For me, The Big Book has much that is profound and useful. However the passages in it and the 12 and 12 especially, IMO, about atheism are naive and condescending. A.A. basically has a scattered approach to addiction saying at different times that its a physical disease, an allergy, a spiritual disease and despite what many might say, a moral failing.
For me and only me, I live by the fundamental tenant of A.A. which is "one day at a time." That, along with "one drunk talking to other drunks" as a means to sobriety are my cornerstones and anything else confuses the matter. In the end I had to look in the mirror and say to myself that "its up to me to decide whether to drink or not, yes or no." It is ultimately an existential decision.
I was told by one sponsor years ago, take from the fellowship what works for me to keep me sobre.
For me and only me, I live by the fundamental tenant of A.A. which is "one day at a time." That, along with "one drunk talking to other drunks" as a means to sobriety are my cornerstones and anything else confuses the matter. In the end I had to look in the mirror and say to myself that "its up to me to decide whether to drink or not, yes or no." It is ultimately an existential decision.
I was told by one sponsor years ago, take from the fellowship what works for me to keep me sobre.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by bbthumper 
From chapter 4 of the Big Book of AA
"To one who feels he is an atheist or agnostic such an experience seems impossible, but to continue as he is means disaster, especially if he is an alcoholic of the hopeless variety. To be doomed to an alcoholic death or to live on a spiritual basis are not always easy alternatives to face.
But it isn’t so difficult. About half our original fellowship were of exactly that type. At first some of us tried to avoid the issue, hoping against hope we were not true alcoholics. But after a while we had to face the fact that we must find a spiritual basis of life—or else. Perhaps it is going to be that way with you. But cheer up, something like half of us thought we were atheists or agnostics. Our experience shows that you need not be disconcerted. "
"To one who feels he is an atheist or agnostic such an experience seems impossible, but to continue as he is means disaster, especially if he is an alcoholic of the hopeless variety. To be doomed to an alcoholic death or to live on a spiritual basis are not always easy alternatives to face.
But it isn’t so difficult. About half our original fellowship were of exactly that type. At first some of us tried to avoid the issue, hoping against hope we were not true alcoholics. But after a while we had to face the fact that we must find a spiritual basis of life—or else. Perhaps it is going to be that way with you. But cheer up, something like half of us thought we were atheists or agnostics. Our experience shows that you need not be disconcerted. "
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
Living a spiritual life is not the same as practicing a religious devotion, is my experience. There are no religious conditions with my AA sobriety.
Having a spiritual awareness, awakening, experience, whatever, in my experience, cannot be put into any words nor can it be defined by any religion.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto ONtario
Posts: 80
Perhaps not the place to pose this question but I will anyway...
How do people define "spirituality"? I have been through the rooms, detox, and rehab, and I hear the word used all the time but I have come to realize that I don't really understand what it means. Most people when I press them for an answer, do so with what sounds like a definition for an emotional state.
I went to the OED and it gave me this;
Of or pertaining to, affecting or concerning, the spirit or higher moral qualities, esp. as regarded in a religious aspect. (Freq. in express or implied distinction to bodily, corporal, or temporal.)
To say that it is in regard to the spirit is self referential and tells me nothing. To put into context of a moral quality and religious aspect tells me it is a matter of faith. If so, then it is not really open to debate as it is not rational.
There are more than a few of this for whom this simply doesn't cut it. However saying that, I will never disparage anyone else's opinion on the matter and in the end, when it comes to alcoholism/addiction, all that really matters is that if it works for you that is what counts.
I am very interested in what people mean by the word. I do agree with the big book's suggestion of keeping an open mind.
How do people define "spirituality"? I have been through the rooms, detox, and rehab, and I hear the word used all the time but I have come to realize that I don't really understand what it means. Most people when I press them for an answer, do so with what sounds like a definition for an emotional state.
I went to the OED and it gave me this;
Of or pertaining to, affecting or concerning, the spirit or higher moral qualities, esp. as regarded in a religious aspect. (Freq. in express or implied distinction to bodily, corporal, or temporal.)
To say that it is in regard to the spirit is self referential and tells me nothing. To put into context of a moral quality and religious aspect tells me it is a matter of faith. If so, then it is not really open to debate as it is not rational.
There are more than a few of this for whom this simply doesn't cut it. However saying that, I will never disparage anyone else's opinion on the matter and in the end, when it comes to alcoholism/addiction, all that really matters is that if it works for you that is what counts.
I am very interested in what people mean by the word. I do agree with the big book's suggestion of keeping an open mind.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 804
I am an atheist in AA. At first, I found it impossible to reconcile the two. However, a lot of that was due to my general disdain for the whole thing. When I finally reached the desperation point, I heard something which I could relate to. That was that alcohol was more powerful than me and that some in the rooms had overcome it. That made them a higher power to me. Therefore, I use the group as my HP. It's kind of hard to explain. I don't use any one person or group for that matter. I also think it would be arrogant for me to think that I am the highest thing in the universe.
Most of all, I believe that open mindedness and willingness are two of the most important aspects of AA. I do not claim to know everything and therefore am always searching.
Most of all, I believe that open mindedness and willingness are two of the most important aspects of AA. I do not claim to know everything and therefore am always searching.
Powerless over Alcohol
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Trudging the Road to Happy Destiny!
Posts: 4,018
Originally Posted by Mark75
Mine too....
Having a spiritual awareness, awakening, experience, whatever, in my experience, cannot be put into any words nor can it be defined by any religion.
Having a spiritual awareness, awakening, experience, whatever, in my experience, cannot be put into any words nor can it be defined by any religion.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Originally Posted by sothisisit
How do people define "spirituality"?
I actually love this question... and we get it a lot here at SR. But every time I try to put it into words, I can't find them...
It is not so much what, it is there... but.... It's where I find it, in the eyes of others, in my new dog (puppy) as she chews on my ear, LOL, within myself....
Open your mind, toss out all preconceived notions and what you've heard that you couldn't relate to... What CAN you relate to? What have you heard that sparks something inside you, and then follow that...
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