StrugglingDad

Briefly, my son's got a problem with drinking. He doesn't want to stop and when he drinks he becomes abusive. He has no way to support his habit and refuses to work. He doesn't really drink a lot - he'd like to drink more but is limited. We have told him no more money - which he just spends on alcohol. He'll buy a six, guzzle it then want more. Then he starts to ramp up, threatening violence or being voilent if refused. Acting out by verbal, emotional, and physical means up to and including threatening us with knives, threatening suicide, breaking things, throwing rocks at the neighbor's house etc. So we cut him off but he still daily goes through this same thing. He acts as though he is just completely, physically addicted to the alcohol but in reality he's not drinking that much - it's the laziness, demanding, abusive behaviour which is our biggest problem with it. He is on probation and if he does something illegal and gets caught he is going to end up with a felony record for life - if he stays clean, he should be able to get his record expunged. he's also in college and doing well in a class he is very proud of but when denied (for instance last night, he ramped up, we refused to enable and he went and stole mouthwash from the store, drank it and puked all over the place) he is willing to do the most ridiculous things just to "get a drink". if arrested, they will violate his probation, lock him up, he'll lose his class, lose the possibility of expungement, etc. He just totally won't even consider treatment. What should we do with him? is it worth it to cut him off from this minor amount of alcohol just to prove a point? He doesn't seem to care at the time but down deep I think he does care, at least about the class anyway. He is so impulsive and rash, it just doesn't make sense and we end up living in fear of what he's going to do next. For a while, I just bought him his daily beer, thinking $5-$10 a day is better than the results of him being a jerk but then he started demanding more and added violence to the mix.

SparkleKitty

If you ever want him to learn the consequences of his behavior, you have to let him suffer those consequences eventually.

I'm glad you're here. There are a lot of posts here from people who are in or have been in situations similar to yours. I encourage you read as many of them as you can, especially the Sticky posts at the top of the forum. Please read and post and ask questions and find support. There are no quick fixes or answers to the kinds of issues you face, but there are a lot of people who understand and help you through it.

inpieces314

There is more to drinking than just drinking. The behavior also comes into play, which people do not really look at. And the sad thing is, when someone stops drinking, that drinking behavior does not stop. This is how you know if someone is really in recovery or not-when their whole attitude changes (or doesn't).

I know exactly what you mean, though, the behavior is almost worse than the drinking itself. And the only way to solve it is NOT to stop the drinking, because trust me, it doesn't work, but to work some kind of program or go to church or do something in order to make yourself a better person.

But anyway, that's his problem. You can make sure that you are doing whatever you need to do to make yourself a better person, because he shouldn't be holding you and your wife back from life. Don't feed into his bs.

He will never change as long as he gets what he wants right now, because why should he? He gets what he wants. Start making it hard for him to live while he continues this behavior, and he will either change, or he won't and you won't have to deal with it anymore. It will seem like a lose-lose situation, but it will be win-win in the long run.

Katiekate

What should we do with him?

Stop giving him money or beer.

If he becomes violent, call the police.

If he violates his probabtion he violates his probation, it's on him.

Time for him to take responsibility for his behavior. It doesn't help him at all to try and protect him from himself.

If it were me , I would make it clear to him that his behaviour is abusive and unacceptable, he gets to deal with that in his own way. You can lead a horse but you can't make him.

Al anon may be a good place for you to check out.

Keep posting. Katie

StrugglingDad

I just feel really guilty because it's getting to the point, I don't want to see him anymore - i feel at times like, i wish he would get caught and go to jail just so i don't have to go through this bs anymore. but i think, what a horrible attitude for his father to have, i'm supposed to love him and want the best for him but he just doesn't care about anybody or anything when he's in the "mood". and yet for most of the day, he studies or goes to school, or watches tv, whatever - he's got it pretty good - all we ask is he treats us with normal respect i.e. no violence, theft or destruction and that he pays for his own beer. he doesn't need money for anything else, he's got free room, free food, free medical, free cloths, free school, - everything. we've even offered to pay the rent on a room if he would move out. I know we've given him too much but now it feels like we are pushing him over a cliff, knowing that for whatever reason - he can't or won't make the logical decision to either not drink or at least support his own drinking by working (which he says he can't because nobody will hire a felon) yet i hate to see him throw his whole life away for the sake of a beer or six or eight.

redatlanta

I am sorry you are dealing with this. This is a good place to be because the people here will tell you the truth not what you want to hear.

First I seriously doubt your son is only drinking a six pack. You may think that is it, you may think you have boxed him in enough to control it - but I am here to tell you you cannot build a fence high enough around your son to control/keep him from drinking. Secondly the amount he is drinking isn't an issue. An alcoholic is an alcoholic - whether it be one or 15 it DOESN"T MATTER.

He acts as if he is completely addicted to the alcohol because he is.

You need to become familiar with the terms co-dependant and enabling because that is what you are. These are necessary people in the alcoholics life. You might say that you aren't enabling him. That you are in fact keeping him from harming himself. You are keeping him from ruining his future.

What you are doing is giving him a home to live in, with food to eat, a car maybe? school perhaps attorneys to help with his legal issue. He is terrorizing you and your wife, he is terrorizing your neighbors, you won't call the police on him because that means a felony for life. So you and everybody else lives still controlled by his addiction.

Most alcoholics do not get help unless they hit rock bottom. This seems to be an atmosphere that might not be totally comfortable for him but hey, he is still drinking, he is still getting fed, he still has a place to sleep. Does his probation include use of drugs or alcohol? Most do, are you covering for him? Sending him a signal that its ok to break the law?

You ask what to do - you kick him out is what you do. You call the police is what you do. The old saying is Alcoholics end up one of three places - in rehab, in jail or dead. Which of those 3 places do you prefer for your son?

I cannot imagine what you are going through and I have much compassion. Continue to read here you will learn a lot - you don't understand alcoholism and you need to if you are to ever understand your son and why he does what he does. Have you considered going to Al- anon? Please do so - it will help YOU - its for YOU -

Will be sending prayers your way tonight I hope as you read that you will get a sense of peace from a community that has been or is going through it.

PaperDolls

Why would he quit drinking and acting like he does? I sure wouldn't.
That's what enabling is. Right there.



It's not easy to stop but if he's going to change his behavior he must have consequences.

If he's a college student than he's an adult. Let him suffer consequences like every other productive member of society and see if he decides to change his ways. He's the one that will make that happen by the way, not you.

If he gets more legal consequences and/or a felony and flunks out of college it's a result of HIS behavior, not yours.

I'm sorry you're going through so much stress and BS. I know it's a difficult situation to be in.

JMFburns

What if a friend, family member or coworker had told you the story you posted? What would you tell them to do?

Do you see your son finishing college, getting a FT job to support himself and moving out? (Not "do you fantasize about it, because I'm sure you do!) But, seriously, could the son you see today move out & take care of himself?

I know I made life way too easy for my son - place to live, food to eat, clothes AND a place to comfortably smoke pot! I associated happiness with love. Wish I knew 15 years ago what I know now . . . I would have expected more for both my kids.

Ah well, good luck.

marliese22

I have been there with my son at age 21 he went to a rehab facility. Spent 2 months there seemed to be making progress. Little background he is a type 1 diabetic since age 7. Has a low bloodsugar they did not know what to do so they called an ambulance. The patients were scared to death thought he was dead and the facility decided he needed to go somewhere with a higher level of medical care. Ended up at 2 different facilities then came home. Went to an outpatient did very well and then to AA he is doing so well has not had a drink in over a year. When he came home I let him concentrate on his recovery, he got lazy, did not want to go to school, no job no income watching tv and playing video games.He also suffers from depression, tried to commit suicide April 16 2011. One day his brother who works very hard 19 has fulltime job got pissed at him for not doing anything and it got physical AS son pulled a knife on him he is not as strong, police were called and as son was sent to hospital for evaluation. I had told him before this all happened he needed to either go to school or get a job and nothing happened so when this took place I told him he could not come home. He was in hospital for 2 weeks. When he got out had nowhere to go so he lived on the streets for a week until he got into the salvation army. Was there for a month. It was an eye opener for him he had it to good with me. When his month was up he still had not made arrangements so my stbxah said he could live with him if he took care of housework cooking and laundry and went to school. Well he has finally turned himself around and is not drinking going to college and getting A's only 2 classes but next semester is taking 4 is spending time with friends he had been isolating himself. I hope he is on the road but I feel if I had not kicked him out and let him feel the pain he would never have turned himself around . By the way it just about killed me worrying about him especially with an illness like type 1 diabetes.

BlueSkies1

My father would have kicked me in the rear all the way to Timbucktoo if I had behaved like that. I would have been in a hospital, not a jail.
That's one extreme, but the point is--there was no toleration of bad behavior in my house growing up.
As an adult I understand because of that strict upbringing that everything is on my shoulders, nobody is to save me but myself.
I raised my daughter the same way. She is a self-sufficient responsible individual.
Now that the tyrant my father is dead, my mother coddles my older brother. He doesn't have a job, sneaks a drink whenever she is away from home, and is a slacker that takes out her garbage once a week and thinks that is contributing. a 54 year old man!
My dad would have kicked him out awhile ago to sink or swim, without a single codie bone in his body.
That's the seemingly contradictory thing about codependency. What we think helps--actually hurts them.

SadHeart

So you care more about his class than he does?
So you care more about his felony record and expungement than he does?

Why?

How old is he? Is he legal?

He's taking ONE class? And what is he doing with the rest of his time?

I have a 22 year old son who starting drinking at 16, did poorly in school (but graduated) pretended to go to college one semester, worked 10 hours a week, made insane messes in the house, argued about everything, and finally ended up getting thrown out because he hit me, knocked me to the ground and spit in his minor brother's face. I understand wanting to protect them.

But here's the thing. He's acting like this now, on the edge of violating probation and getting more demanding. He doesn't care about his future, that's clear--but he's figured out you do care, so he's using it against you. He thinks he's got you by the short hairs; you care, he doesn't, he's using your caring against you.

And here's the other thing--as much as you care, he DOES NOT. Harsh reality. Stupid, immature, shortsighted. Yes, yes, and yes. But...what can you do.

Maybe, MAYBE, you can hold his hand and nurse-maid him past the probationary period. Maybe you can get this charge expunged. But...how about NEXT year? And the year after? And the year after that? He's shoplifting mouthwash today on probation knowing the consequence, what's he going to be doing, 5 or 10 or 15 years from now.

HE. DOES. NOT. CARE.

The felony charge and jail time is pretty much inevitable. If not now, then within the next decade. Isn't it better to have him go to jail now, have the felony charge on his record now at age 18, 19, 20 (real young) so that if he does get his act together, he can explain his problems to future employers, etc...as youthful stupidity? You can't get away with that when you are 25, but people will give you a break when you are stupid at 19 or 20.

And if he faces consequences NOW, maybe he will clean up his act. Better to hit bottom when you are 19 with 3 years (adjust numbers as you see fit) of addiction destroying your brain and delaying your maturing process, than to hit bottom at 25 or 30 with 15 years of brain damage and a larger delay in the maturing process.

Better to do it now.

Also, it will clear his brain that you are not a stupid gullible fool he can jerk around with a few threats--even if he doesn't clean up his act. It will let him know (if you hold firm) that he will need to find another enabler. Sometimes that's not so easy to do.

And it will give you your peace of mind and peaceful home back. Will you worry about him out in the world on his own? Yep, a lot. Do you worry about him now? Yep. He will find another enabler, they ALWAYS do. He will tell the new enabler what horrible parents you are, he will add lies to it.

You asked for advise: here's mine, take it for what it's worth:

Book a place in inhouse treatment at least 30 days starting at the latest January 1. Then at least 60 days in sober living house. Then he can come home ONLY if he works fulltime and takes a class, or goes to school fulltime and works parttime (to keep him busy). Give him no money, no car to use, and NO alcohol.

You aren't doing him favors coddling him.

I know how hard it is. I know you are hurt, frightened and scared. But they have to walk their own path, even if it's the stupid path.

Many hugs to you and your wife from another sadden, frightened parent.