Saturday didn't go how I expected....
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 106
Saturday didn't go how I expected....
Ok everyone. I need some advice. Saturday, I went home with some boxes to start packing up my stuff. When my AH saw them and asked what I was doing, I said I was moving out. He went ballistic. Asked why I was doing it then instead of Wednesday when I caught him lying about drinking again. I told him it was only because I couldn’t do it mid-week due to work and other obligations. He physically got in my way when I was trying to pack stuff up and wouldn’t let me. At this point I was starting to get mad.
Then came the promises. “I’ll stop drinking, I won’t lie anymore, etc.”
You’ve all heard them. I don’t need to repeat them. He then tried the “I feel like I had been doing better. I need you here to support me. If you’re not here, I can’t do it”. This is where I need some help. I know why I need to be apart from him, but I can’t make him understand that I need space in order to try to trust again. Is this just more manipulation? How do I answer him when he says that he needs my support to not drink and that if I’m not living with him, he has no reason to try? The worst part of all this is that one moment, he’ll be acting sorry and the next, he’s trying to defend his actions and minimize his behavior. Then he throws out the “How will you know if I’ve changed if you aren’t here to see it?” This one I really do have a problem answering.
Also, I really don’t want to have to move out with only what I can carry and then have to get a lawyer to get the rest. Any suggestions on how to do this without involving a lawyer at this point? I would truly like him to get help and perhaps later we can rebuild.
Then came the promises. “I’ll stop drinking, I won’t lie anymore, etc.”
You’ve all heard them. I don’t need to repeat them. He then tried the “I feel like I had been doing better. I need you here to support me. If you’re not here, I can’t do it”. This is where I need some help. I know why I need to be apart from him, but I can’t make him understand that I need space in order to try to trust again. Is this just more manipulation? How do I answer him when he says that he needs my support to not drink and that if I’m not living with him, he has no reason to try? The worst part of all this is that one moment, he’ll be acting sorry and the next, he’s trying to defend his actions and minimize his behavior. Then he throws out the “How will you know if I’ve changed if you aren’t here to see it?” This one I really do have a problem answering.Also, I really don’t want to have to move out with only what I can carry and then have to get a lawyer to get the rest. Any suggestions on how to do this without involving a lawyer at this point? I would truly like him to get help and perhaps later we can rebuild.
Its_me_jen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Salina, Ks
Posts: 8,547
He's manipulating you. No question about it. You don't need to 'make him understand' ..... you want to leave because he continues to drink and lie about it. Period. You don't need to explain yourself.
If he's preventing you from getting your things, couldn't you call the police and have them assist you? I'm sure others here will have more experience with that stuff. I can't answer the stuff about getting lawyer.
If he's preventing you from getting your things, couldn't you call the police and have them assist you? I'm sure others here will have more experience with that stuff. I can't answer the stuff about getting lawyer.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 444
but I can’t make him understand that I need space in order to try to trust again. Is this just more manipulation?
There is no way you can make him understand.... yes it is more manipulation.
How will you know if I’ve changed if you aren’t here to see it?
Just calmly tell him you will know by his actions. Again, he won't understand; but that is not your problem.
It reminds me of when I moved out. Found his hidden stash on Halloween night (five years ago). Confirmed my suspicions that the latest round of promises that he wasn't drinking were more lies. Told him that I would be moving out by the end of the week. When I packed up some things on to go a few days later (on a Wednesday) he was shocked and asked me where I was going. I said I am moving out, I told you this. Yes, but you said at the end of the week, was his response. If I would have done it at the end of the week he would have still been shocked.
They just don't believe you will really go through with it. No he does not need you there to get sober; has it helped up to now that you have been there? No.
But, he will never agree with your decision, so save your breath and your sanity.... just do it.
There is no way you can make him understand.... yes it is more manipulation.
How will you know if I’ve changed if you aren’t here to see it?
Just calmly tell him you will know by his actions. Again, he won't understand; but that is not your problem.
It reminds me of when I moved out. Found his hidden stash on Halloween night (five years ago). Confirmed my suspicions that the latest round of promises that he wasn't drinking were more lies. Told him that I would be moving out by the end of the week. When I packed up some things on to go a few days later (on a Wednesday) he was shocked and asked me where I was going. I said I am moving out, I told you this. Yes, but you said at the end of the week, was his response. If I would have done it at the end of the week he would have still been shocked.
They just don't believe you will really go through with it. No he does not need you there to get sober; has it helped up to now that you have been there? No.
But, he will never agree with your decision, so save your breath and your sanity.... just do it.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 145
Good morning Dontreallycare,
My XABF used to use those same lines with me...that he needed my support. He had me convinced that if I let him play video games all day, if I gave him space, let him ignore me, let him skip school, even let him smoke weed, that he could relax and be "sober". He doesn't NEED me to recover. He never needed me. They don't need anything other than a true and honest desire to quit.
He needed me to enable him, he needed me to pay for everything, he needed me to tell everyone that yes he was sober so he could get praise, he needed me to drive him around, he needed me to do his laundry, cook him food, but he did NOT need me to recover. And guess what? He relapsed then has now stopped going to AA, is back to drinking, and back to old ways. He claimed to quit for a better life, to be with me, etc, but ultimately, it didn't sustain. The only thing that continues to sustain is his desire to stay an alcoholic.
My XABF used to use those same lines with me...that he needed my support. He had me convinced that if I let him play video games all day, if I gave him space, let him ignore me, let him skip school, even let him smoke weed, that he could relax and be "sober". He doesn't NEED me to recover. He never needed me. They don't need anything other than a true and honest desire to quit.
He needed me to enable him, he needed me to pay for everything, he needed me to tell everyone that yes he was sober so he could get praise, he needed me to drive him around, he needed me to do his laundry, cook him food, but he did NOT need me to recover. And guess what? He relapsed then has now stopped going to AA, is back to drinking, and back to old ways. He claimed to quit for a better life, to be with me, etc, but ultimately, it didn't sustain. The only thing that continues to sustain is his desire to stay an alcoholic.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,295
This one is clear as day. He isn't trying to quit because he wants to, he is trying to appear that he is quitting for you.
Tell him that during the separation he can find out whether he really wants to quit, or was simply quitting for you. During this time apart he can discover what his real choice is, unswayed by your opinion.
Tell him that if he really wants to quit, he won't need you around during that time to witness his sobriety. He will feel good enough about it himself that he won't need another witness.
That his sobriety is his own to be proud of, and conquer. You have nothing to do with it, it's all inside himself.
This puts it all back to him, where it belongs.
Tell him that during the separation he can find out whether he really wants to quit, or was simply quitting for you. During this time apart he can discover what his real choice is, unswayed by your opinion.
Tell him that if he really wants to quit, he won't need you around during that time to witness his sobriety. He will feel good enough about it himself that he won't need another witness.
That his sobriety is his own to be proud of, and conquer. You have nothing to do with it, it's all inside himself.
This puts it all back to him, where it belongs.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
If he can only quit with you there, he would have done it by now.
"How will you know if I've changed if you're not here to see it?"
Really?
How about he just focuses on the changing part of the equation first and THEN worries about whether or not you can see it?
Do you have any friends who can come back with you to get the rest of your things? My XABF was very threatening when it was just the two of us, but as soon as there was an audience he was not so tough. He didn't want to look like the bad guy in front of others, and I'm not ashamed to say I knew that and used it against him. Once I broke things off with him, we were never without at least one other person present as we went about the business of separating our lives from one another.
"How will you know if I've changed if you're not here to see it?"
Really?
How about he just focuses on the changing part of the equation first and THEN worries about whether or not you can see it?
Do you have any friends who can come back with you to get the rest of your things? My XABF was very threatening when it was just the two of us, but as soon as there was an audience he was not so tough. He didn't want to look like the bad guy in front of others, and I'm not ashamed to say I knew that and used it against him. Once I broke things off with him, we were never without at least one other person present as we went about the business of separating our lives from one another.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 106
mdKathy62,
I know what you mean. I tried to explain the terms "dry drunk" and "white knuckle sobriety" to him. He said I was making them up. I told him to call his AA sponsor (yes, he was attending AA while thinking he could still drink) to have him explain the terms. He then started making comments about how I must have heard them at Al-Anon. Then he started mocking Al-Anon by saying the official handshake was a waggin finger. I tried to tell him that if he made this situation bitter, I would be less likely to ever want to give him a chance to get back together once he could show he was serious about recovery.
I know what you mean. I tried to explain the terms "dry drunk" and "white knuckle sobriety" to him. He said I was making them up. I told him to call his AA sponsor (yes, he was attending AA while thinking he could still drink) to have him explain the terms. He then started making comments about how I must have heard them at Al-Anon. Then he started mocking Al-Anon by saying the official handshake was a waggin finger. I tried to tell him that if he made this situation bitter, I would be less likely to ever want to give him a chance to get back together once he could show he was serious about recovery.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,295
Your welcome, dontreallycare.
When I wrote that part about him deciding if he really wants to quit while you are apart, I also want to add this--
that he can live how he wants to. That he doesn't have to answer to you if he wants to continue drinking. That he doesn't have to feel guilty about his life choices, including drinking, if that is the route he wants to go.
It's the live and let live. We really do have to refrain from guilting others. That frees them to make the choice, decide it is their choice, and feel good about it, bringing out their stronger ego instead of their childish ID, with you chastising and playing the parental role as his super-ego. Freud stuff, but very much applies.
The bottom line is that he has to be freed to make a choice. Only when it is his choice alone and he can feel good about that choice, will he succeed.
When I wrote that part about him deciding if he really wants to quit while you are apart, I also want to add this--
that he can live how he wants to. That he doesn't have to answer to you if he wants to continue drinking. That he doesn't have to feel guilty about his life choices, including drinking, if that is the route he wants to go.
It's the live and let live. We really do have to refrain from guilting others. That frees them to make the choice, decide it is their choice, and feel good about it, bringing out their stronger ego instead of their childish ID, with you chastising and playing the parental role as his super-ego. Freud stuff, but very much applies.
The bottom line is that he has to be freed to make a choice. Only when it is his choice alone and he can feel good about that choice, will he succeed.
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 6,728
He is giving you lip service, that's it. If he really wanted recovery, he would have embraced it when you were there with him. They all say that they can't do it without so n so, it is such an old worn out line. Pure manipulation.
You are trying to reason with an unreasonable addict, it is a waste of your time, if he wants to recover he will do it through a strong recovery program, meetings and a sponser will afford him plenty of support.
You are trying to reason with an unreasonable addict, it is a waste of your time, if he wants to recover he will do it through a strong recovery program, meetings and a sponser will afford him plenty of support.
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